Some scholars suggest that we should claim 金 and 淸 as ou Options

[backho]

North Korea cannot dare say anything. Their life is on the stake. And I don't think we should push our own NW project, we don't have to follow everything that others do. (NE is not possible...NE from us would be Balhae, there is nothing extra except Russia.)

[krnfirebat]

over 1 million balhae people and the last king of balhae went south to goryeo

[HwarangWarrior]

NK regime & its people don't have time for chip-chat, they have more immediate problem; survival.
And China & Japan are just taking advantage of this, hopefully NK didn't loose her attractiveness to Russia. Otherwise they are pretty much finish.

If NK regime don't open up their country then they won't last another 10 yrs.

[backho]

over 1 million balhae people and the last king of balhae went south to goryeo

That sounded weird. I know how they joined force with Goryeo, I just meant there aren't any kingdoms to claim with any "projects" in NE direction from us because Russia is there.

[HwarangWarrior]

That sounded weird. I know how they joined force with Goryeo, I just meant there aren't any kingdoms to claim with any "projects" in NE direction from us because Russia is there.

Eventually, Balhae would succumb to the Khitans, an emerging power in the Liaoxi area (east of current Beijing area). After destroying Balhae in 926, the Khitan established the puppet Dongdan Kingdom, which was soon followed by the annexation by Liao in 936. Some Balhae aristocrats were moved to Liaoyang but Balhae's eastern territory remained politically independent. Some Balhae people including aristocrats (est. 1 million), led by the last Crown Prince Dae Gwang-hyeon (대광현), fled southward to Goryeo, the new self-claimed succesor of Goguryeo (934). Many descendants of the Balhae royal family in Goryeo, changed their family name to Tae (태,太) while Crown Prince Dae Kwang Hyun was conferred family name Wang (왕,王), the royal family name of Goryeo dynasty. Balhae was the last state in Korean history to hold any significant territory in Manchuria, although later Korean dynasties would continue to regard themselves as successors of Goguryeo and Balhae. Moreover that was the beginning of series of northern expansion of later Korean dynasties.

The Khitans themselves eventually succumbed to the Jurchen people, who founded the Jin Dynasty. The Jin dynasty favored the Balhae people as well as the Khitans. Jurchen proclamations emphasized the common descent of the Balhae and Jurchen people from the seven Wuji (勿吉) tribes, and proclaimed "Jurchen and Balhae are from the same family". The fourth, fifth and seventh emperors of Jin were mothered by Balhae consorts. The 13th century census of Northern China by the Mongols distinguished Balhae from other ethnic groups such as Goryeo, Khitan and Jurchen. This suggests that the Balhae people still preserved their identity even after the conquest of the kingdom.

1 million was big number in old times, Koryo had only about 4 million people. By the time Yi Songye founded new kingdom Josun, Josun's population was around 5.6 million.

This post has been edited by HwarangWarrior: Jan 22 2008, 07:00 PM

[krnfirebat]

What was Balhae's population? i know Goguryeo's population was around 3 million, which dissipated into Balhae and Goryeo.

[backho]

1 million was big number in old times, Koryo had only about 4 million people. By the time Yi Songye founded new kingdom Josun, Josun's population was around 5.6 million.

And there was also this.

http://www.allinkorea.net/bbs.html?Table=i...=8&section=
"『신당서』"동이" '백제편'의 기록도 말갈족 인구의 20배가 넘는 고구려 유민이 말갈족으로 편입되었고, 백제인도 일부가 말갈족으로 편입되었다는 것을 종합해 보면, 최소한 말갈족 인구의 90% 내외가 고구려인, 백제인이라는 결론에 도달하게 된다."

Maybe I wasn't being clear. I meant there was nothing but Russia beyond Balhae to "claim" with any "projects".

[backho]

What was Balhae's population? i know Goguryeo's population was around 3 million, which dissipated into Balhae and Goryeo.

Not quite. Not everybody had loyalty and among those who did, not everybody had a chance to prove it. Some ran to Turkey (I think I told you guys before they even made one of us a King later on. They have really respected and valued us), some to Japan, and some joined Jurchen, which later became part of, what we now refer to as, Manchu. (remember we talking about how few of them are our brother?)

[HwarangWarrior]

What was Balhae's population? i know Goguryeo's population was around 3 million, which dissipated into Balhae and Goryeo.

Balhae was big land, but their population was no where near her southern bros.

There aren't any recorded documents, but it was known to be around 1.5~2 millions and Koryo had about 3.5 million.
When Balhae fall to Qidan (Khitan); very few citizens of Balhae went over to Qidan dynasty, hence Qidan had to bring Mongols to finish off rest of Balhae strong holds

I think the main reason why Balhae fall was that they didn't united against to their enemies. It is said to over 1 million Balhae citizens were Koguryo and Baekje descents (around 90% were Koguryo stocks). I have never trusted claims over there were very few Koguryo but many malgal (this must be interpreted as many malgal tribes but one Koguryo ethnic).

[backho]

Not quite. The estimate 90% is related to Malgal (although it wouldn't make much difference because most of them joined Malgal), not Balhae. Also, Goguryeo and BaekJe people were together, not just Goguryeo people. I gave you the link right there.

[backho]

말갈족 인구의 90% 내외가 고구려인, 백제인이라는 결론에 도달하게 된다."

[backho]

By the way, we are getting off topic.

[HwarangWarrior]

Korea should start claiming Primorsky Krai, isn't that used be called Yoen-Hae-ju?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorsky_Krai

(IMG:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Manchu2.jpg)

Greater Gando
(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Gandos.gif)

More maps from http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr/mapoverview.htm

[krnfirebat]

silla was rapid to absorb south+central goguryeo as its territory, while balhae absorbed northern goguryeo.

balhae+silla
(IMG:http://dicimg.naver.com/100/sub/71185_0.gif)

goguryeo+baekje+silla+gaya
(IMG:http://dicimg.naver.com/100/sub/722619_0.gif)

This post has been edited by krnfirebat: Jan 22 2008, 10:07 PM

[backho]

Korea should start claiming Primorsky Krai, isn't that used be called Yoen-Hae-ju?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorsky_Krai

(IMG:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Manchu2.jpg)

Greater Gando
(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Gandos.gif)

More maps from http://www.cartography.henny-savenije.pe.kr/mapoverview.htm

Dude....I am not quite sure if you really are who you claims to be but...you need to read more about Gando issue. First of all, it is not as big as you think. Second of all, our government has no intention of boundary adjustment. Third of all, totally inappropriate topic.

[backho]

silla was rapid to absorb south+central goguryeo as its territory, while balhae absorbed northern goguryeo.

Yes. Then Hu-Goguryeo and Hu-Baekje were born, Hu-Goguryeo was overthrown by Goryeo, and Goryeo beat them all later uniting force with Balhae. Didn't we go over this?

balhae+silla
goguryeo+baekje+silla+gaya

WTH are you guys trying to do?

[WorldFinest]

well....mental masterbasion is always fun. China also owns the solar system. You know? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

This post has been edited by WorldFinest: Jan 22 2008, 11:04 PM

[backho]

well....mental masterbasion is always fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

As you do. LOL

[TKDMaster]

Dude....I am not quite sure if you really are who you claims to be but...you need to read more about Gando issue. First of all, it is not as big as you think. Second of all, our government has no intention of boundary adjustment. Third of all, totally inappropriate topic.

I think that map speaks for itself.

Korea need to claim the lost lands from Qing and Russian, I know it's bit too late for that, but at least we have to try.

[backho]

I think that map speaks for itself.

Korea need to claim the lost lands from Qing and Russian, I know it's bit too late for that, but at least we have to try.

The map you posted only illustrate the regions, nothing more. The actual Gando issue from new Josun era is much more complicated, and it is nowhere that big. I will either post or pm you some articles later.