As a sign of good will, should China help Vietnam deal, with the financial crisis if it does happen? Options

[SoCal]

As a sign of good will, should China help Vietnam deal
with the financial crisis if it does happen?

Please share your constructive suggestions on this matter.
Please retrain yourself from posting profanity and lame comments. Thank you.

[MrShao]

Hi, Mr Socal:

with all due respect, ur post is 3 weeks overdue. the debate is over. China already stepped in and helped the Vietnam by giving her cash loans and special trading deal. I raised the issue at Vietnamese chat room 3 weeks ago. IMF didn't intervene. Remember i call ur reference 'rosy'. no hard feeling.

Since then, stock market all over the world plunged. High commodities prices are not going to go away pretty soon. I am constantly watching the vietnamese economy because it is the barometer of east asian economy. like before, i still worries about its cascading effects on her neighbors. in particular, vietnamese current account deficits, inflation, capital flight are everyone's top concerns (except in Viet-chat room).

beijing didn't help vietnam out of good will. it is in line with beijing's strategic interests. China doesn't want to appreciate Yuan too fast, but the pressure is building up by the inflow of hot cash - mainly dollar- from aboard. But if Viet Dong devalues too quickly, it will exacerbate beijing's position. That's to say that shorting Dong by buying dollar, and at same time using dollar to buy Yuan. the net effect is that china ends up with lots of dollars reserves and excess Yuan circulation, meaning inflation. Beijing lends the Dollar to Viet allowing Viet gov to defend Dong's value. so the cycle mentioned above will not hurt china. Very Smart move.

This post has been edited by MrShao: Jun 30 2008, 05:46 PM

[House]

I think that it would be extremely foolish to help out Vietnam. The last time it happen was the Vietnam War and Vietnam responded by persecuting Vietnamese of Chinese descent and end up with the war between Vietnam and China. I think the reason is that throughout history, China has subjugated Vietnam and the resentment from that was not in any way blunted by China's help in fighting the US.

I have been to Vietnam, and that resentment has not abated. No matter what China does, it will be seen as self serving.

IMO, China should just stay out of Vietnam affairs including stay put during crisis and just let Vietnam see how much they can get out of their old allies (Russsians) or their new ones (US and Europe).

[crabdonut]

^ Vietnam is a communist country, so I doubt US is their ally. Unless I am missing something here.

[SoCal]

Hi, Mr Socal:

with all due respect, ur post is 3 weeks overdue. the debate is over. China already stepped in and helped the Vietnam by giving her cash loans and special trading deal. I raised the issue at Vietnamese chat room 3 weeks ago. IMF didn't intervene. Remember i call ur reference 'rosy'. no hard feeling.

Since then, stock market all over the world plunged. High commodities prices are not going to go away pretty soon. I am constantly watching the vietnamese economy because it is the barometer of east asian economy. like before, i still worries about its cascading effects on her neighbors. in particular, vietnamese current account deficits, inflation, capital flight are everyone's top concerns (except in Viet-chat room).

beijing didn't help vietnam out of good will. it is in line with beijing's strategic interests. China doesn't want to appreciate Yuan too fast, but the pressure is building up by the inflow of hot cash - mainly dollar- from aboard. But if Viet Dong devalues too quickly, it will exacerbate beijing's position. That's to say that shorting Dong by buying dollar, and at same time using dollar to buy Yuan. the net effect is that china ends up with lots of dollars reserves and excess Yuan circulation, meaning inflation. Beijing lends the Dollar to Viet allowing Viet gov to defend Dong's value. so the cycle mentioned above will not hurt china. Very Smart move.

Mr. Shao,

Do you know how much is the cash loan that China loans to Vietnam?



Since Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan are Confucius countries, I think it is best to offer mutual assistance to each other. This is a win-win situation for all sides.




This post has been edited by SoCal: Jul 1 2008, 09:02 PM

[SoCal]

I think that it would be extremely foolish to help out Vietnam. The last time it happen was the Vietnam War and Vietnam responded by persecuting Vietnamese of Chinese descent and end up with the war between Vietnam and China. I think the reason is that throughout history, China has subjugated Vietnam and the resentment from that was not in any way blunted by China's help in fighting the US.

I have been to Vietnam, and that resentment has not abated. No matter what China does, it will be seen as self serving.

IMO, China should just stay out of Vietnam affairs including stay put during crisis and just let Vietnam see how much they can get out of their old allies (Russsians) or their new ones (US and Europe).

Regardless of what happened in the past, hatred keeps both sides from moving forward. By the way, Vietnam Red Cross donated $200,000 to the earthquake victims in Sichuan. The Vietnamese are cautious because in the past, China occupied for over 1,000 years and has invaded 13 times since then. Like I say previously, hatred keeps both sides from moving forward. We need to work together to ensure a prosperous and peaceful East Asia. It is good for the economy.



http://www.newsweek.com/id/35261


The Vietnamese have no particular love for China. One official there, who asked to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the relationship, said to me, "We are clear-eyed. China has occupied Vietnam for 1,000 years. It has invaded us 13 times since then. But China is a huge presence, our biggest exporter." And everyone I spoke to in Hanoi agreed that the Chinese were handling them with great dexterity. Before arriving in Vietnam I had been in Tokyo, during Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao's state visit, and I heard a similar refrain from the Japanese. Wen finessed the many points of tension between the two countries and instead accentuated the positive—their booming economic ties.





http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-06/...ent_8451130.htm


Vietnam Red Cross donates $200,000 to Chinese earthquake victims


www.chinaview.cn 2008-06-27 18:05:20 Print

Special report: Reconstruction After Earthquake

HANOI, June 27 (Xinhua) -- Vietnam Red Cross Society donated here Friday 200,000 U.S. dollars to victims of a recent strong earthquake in China's southwestern Sichuan Province.

This post has been edited by SoCal: Jul 1 2008, 09:17 PM

[Semiautomatic]

Vietnamese fear of China is a perfect example of why other East Asian nations fear China. History has shown them that a powerful China is more or less a straight path to domination. These small nations can only remain sovereign when China is weak.

What they need to wake up about is that without China, they would be swallowed up by Western neo-imperialism. Chinese rule may not always be benevolent, but I think anyone would agree that it's far better than have white men rape and plunder your country.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

China is smart, they wouldnt help Vietnam unless they could get something in return. i dont know what it is off hand, but its there. these personal feelings is irrelevant. business is business. China is quite good at business, i have faith this deal wont be a waste.

[EazyMoney]

Since Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan are Confucius countries, I think it is best to offer mutual assistance to each other.

Actually, CHina's best and most loyal buddy is Pakistan, a Muslim nation. Pak-Sino relationship is like a brotherhood.
In Confucism, "Every man wants to be his own King".

Confucism originated from CHina, but some countries like Japan has adopted and take another level," act one way in the front and another way behind"

So among those Confucious countries there are no true "brotherhood" type of relation but mostly based on economic and pratical considerations.

This post has been edited by EazyMoney: Jul 2 2008, 10:38 AM

[SoCal]

Actually, CHina's best and most loyal buddy is Pakistan, a Muslim nation. Pak-Sino relationship is like a brotherhood.
In Confucism, "Every man wants to be his own King".

Confucism originated from CHina, but some countries like Japan has adopted and take another level," act one way in the front and another way behind"

So among those Confucious countries there are no true "brotherhood" type of relation but mostly based on economic and pratical considerations.

Pakistan is a new comer and like new wine.


Nothing can taste better like old wine of Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan.



New friends can come and go; but branches of the same tree cannot be cut.

This post has been edited by SoCal: Jul 2 2008, 12:21 PM

[Mid-Night_Sun]

you are an odd fellow. countries arent like wine. every country looks out for number 1. thats all. if theres a partnership, its because it helps both of them. not because they are related in any way.

[MrShao]

Mr. Shao,

Do you know how much is the cash loan that China loans to Vietnam?
Since Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan are Confucius countries, I think it is best to offer mutual assistance to each other. This is a win-win situation for all sides.

my dear friend:
here is what chinese state newspaper said on 6/2/08. I quote
They signed cooperation agreements on plant and animal quarantine, and an agreement on China to provide favorable loan and export buyer's credit to Vietnam.

full article:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008...ent_6728216.htm

today's newpaper in chinese (sorry) says according to Chinese Science Academy, government think tank, Vietnam needs 30-50 billion dollar of foreign aids to stabilize the Dong. it will be achieved by Chinese Korean Japanese joint effort.

http://news.hexun.com/2008-06-11/106586175.html

[Henry123]

Dispite all the crappy things people have done to each other in the past. I think its never too late to amend wounds.
Even Europeans who have been killing each other for centuries & 2 World Wars eventually formed the EU.

Mutual Harmony is what all nations should really strive for. Prosperity and Hapiness for all.

This post has been edited by Henry123: Jul 2 2008, 01:27 PM

[lilzz]

Depend which part of Vietnam you talking about. Hanoi region is part of the Mekong region economic intergration circle. The conservative communist group like long duc Man is leaning toward CHina and he's one came to CHina recently.

As for the South region, Saigon it's bit different. it's headed by the liberal and anti-chinese group. This is the group that trying fight china for those islands. They prefer to side with Japan and US.
They are headed by their current PM.

If CHina help Vietnam, I say try to help the North region more and integrate them more closely to the Mekong economic region. and better Leave the Southern Saigon region alone.

In fact the vietnam conservative group is fighting against the liberal western leaning group for power.
The current economic problem is good check against the liberal group and enable the conservatives back in control.

This post has been edited by lilzz: Jul 2 2008, 02:41 PM

[Hafiz]

Vietnam Red Cross Society donated here Friday 200,000 U.S. dollars to victims of a recent strong earthquake in China's outhwestern Sichuan Province.

be precious....Chinese Vietnamese donated money via Vietnam Red Cross to China

[SoCal]

Depend which part of Vietnam you talking about. Hanoi region is part of the Mekong region economic intergration circle. The conservative communist group like long duc Man is leaning toward CHina and he's one came to CHina recently.

As for the South region, Saigon it's bit different. it's headed by the liberal and anti-chinese group. This is the group that trying fight china for those islands. They prefer to side with Japan and US.
They are headed by their current PM.

If CHina help Vietnam, I say try to help the North region more and integrate them more closely to the Mekong economic region. and better Leave the Southern Saigon region alone.

In fact the vietnam conservative group is fighting against the liberal western leaning group for power.
The current economic problem is good check against the liberal group and enable the conservatives back in control.

This is a good map that shows the mountain range that divides the northern region and southern region of Vietnam.

[martin_nuke]

China is smart, they wouldnt help Vietnam unless they could get something in return. i dont know what it is off hand, but its there. these personal feelings is irrelevant. business is business. China is quite good at business, i have faith this deal wont be a waste.

Rice?

[SoCal]

my dear friend:
here is what chinese state newspaper said on 6/2/08. I quote
They signed cooperation agreements on plant and animal quarantine, and an agreement on China to provide favorable loan and export buyer's credit to Vietnam.

full article:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008...ent_6728216.htm

today's newpaper in chinese (sorry) says according to Chinese Science Academy, government think tank, Vietnam needs 30-50 billion dollar of foreign aids to stabilize the Dong. it will be achieved by Chinese Korean Japanese joint effort.

http://news.hexun.com/2008-06-11/106586175.html

Dear MrShao,


So will the $30 to $50 Billions be provided by Chinese Korean Japanese joint effort?

[SoCal]

you are an odd fellow. countries arent like wine. every country looks out for number 1. thats all. if theres a partnership, its because it helps both of them. not because they are related in any way.

Dear Mid Night Sun,


Really, perhaps you do not understand the deep meaning when I say the relationships of Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan are like old wine due to over 2,000 years of Confucius respect for learning, industriousness, etc.

[Mid-Night_Sun]

Dear Mid Night Sun,
Really, perhaps you do not understand the deep meaning when I say the relationships of Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan are like old wine due to over 2,000 years of Confucius respect for learning, industriousness, etc.

welp, by all means help me understand this deeeeeeeeeep meaning. i heard you collect wine in your basement and put labels of countries on them. then play risk. is this true?