Russia slams West, looks to China for support, Russian military action in Georgia and Britain's war in Argentina Options

[galvatron]

Russia slams West, looks to China for support

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp.../372170/1/.html

DUSHANBE : Russia on Wednesday lashed out against Western criticism of its actions in Georgia as President Dmitry Medvedev discussed the situation in the Caucasus with his Chinese counterpart Hu Jintao. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

"The Russian president informed his Chinese colleague about the situation in South Ossetia and Abkhazia," Kremlin spokeswoman Natalya Timakova said after the talks, referring to two Georgian rebel regions at the centre of the crisis.

Chinese officials declined to comment after the meeting.

The meeting in Tajikistan came on Medvedev's first foreign trip since fighting broke out earlier this month between Russian and Georgian forces over two regions that Medvedev recognised as independent on Tuesday.

US President George W. Bush called on Medvedev to reverse his decision, saying that it would exacerbate tensions in a volatile region. French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner warned that it could lead to war.

On Wednesday, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang was quoted by the official Xinhua news agency as saying that China was "concerned" about Medvedev's move but otherwise refrained from criticism.

He added that China hoped for "dialogue and consultation" on the issue.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov meanwhile rejected Western criticism on the sidelines of Medvedev's visit to the Tajik capital Dushanbe in scathing comments against British Foreign Secretary David Miliband and NATO. Lavrov said Miliband's criticism of Russia during a trip to Ukraine on Wednesday was "inappropriate" and "hypocritical."

He then drew a parallel between Russian military action in Georgia and Britain's war with Argentina over the Falkland Islands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_twisted.gif) .

"It's strange that our actions to defend our citizens right on our borders should be criticised by Britain, considering its actions in the Falkland Islands, which are the other side of the world," Lavrov told reporters.

Miliband warned Russia not to start a new Cold War and said the West should use "hard-headed engagement" with Moscow.

Lavrov said Russia would cooperate with the West in international organisations "only to the extent to which its Western colleagues are interested."

The stand-off threatens to have far wider repercussions for already fraught relations between Russia and the West. Russia has frozen military ties with the NATO alliance and has accused the United States of rearming Georgia.

Abkhazia and South Ossetia are internationally recognised as part of Georgia and no country has followed Russia's lead to declare them independent countries.

The regions broke away from Georgian control after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Medvedev met with China's Hu ahead of a Thursday meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), a regional security grouping dominated by China and Russia that includes four ex-Soviet Central Asian countries.

The Russian and Chinese leaders talked about boosting the SCO, which was set up in 2001 as a counterweight to NATO influence in the strategic Central Asian region.

"The two sides talked about Central Asia and the need to strengthen the SCO in order to bolster security in the region," Kremlin spokeswoman Timakova said.

They also discussed trade and economic and energy ties, she said.

During his trip to Dushanbe, Medvedev was also due to hold bilateral talks with the leaders of Afghanistan, Iran, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.

Central Asian leaders have kept a low-profile during Russia's confrontation with Georgia.

The region has its own separatist issues and siding with Russia could harm vital economic and security ties with the West.

Medvedev on Friday was also due to visit a Russian military base in Dushanbe. Moscow has troops based in three military installations in this mountainous former Soviet republic, which borders Afghanistan and China. - AFP/de

[maersk]

strange analogy.......... the falklands where and still are british territory, they where invaded by argentina.


south ossetia and abkhazia ARENT russian territory (yet) and georgia was reasserting its rule over rebel provinces when it got invaded by russia.

[martin_nuke]

This is also like supporting Tibet and Xinjiang independence.

This post has been edited by martin_nuke: Aug 27 2008, 09:23 PM

[catman]

Russia feels justified because the US recognized Kosovo independence.

[orient]

Russia feels justified because the US recognized Kosovo independence.

Yup, tit for tat.

[MILTON]

well of course Russia is going to push for this now, they wasted some time/energy and resources for scaring the hell out of the Georgians, and now recognizing Abkhazia and Ossetia basically means that they are technially becoming part of Russia and there is nothing Georgia will do about it

[islander]

strange analogy.......... the falklands where and still are british territory, they where invaded by argentina.
south ossetia and abkhazia ARENT russian territory (yet) and georgia was reasserting its rule over rebel provinces when it got invaded by russia.

Are you sure you do not mean "Las Malvinas". Argentina has a province which includes those islands with judicial seal and flag. Its called the province of Tierra del Fuego, Antartica and islands of the South Atlantic.

(IMG:http://www.sectur.gov.ar/images/Mapas/PROVINCIAS/Tierra%20del%20Fuego.jpg) **(IMG:http://www.justierradelfuego.gov.ar/Jornadas/escudoTDFcolor.jpg) **(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Flag_of_Tierra_del_Fuego_province_in_Argentina.svg/320px-Flag_of_Tierra_del_Fuego_province_in_Argentina.svg.png)

Those penguis look menacing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Province of Tierra del Fuego, Antártida e Islas del Atlántico Sur

Area: 1.002.445 Km²
- The Big Island of Tierra del Fuego: 21.027 Km²
- Islands of the South Atlantic: 16.027 Km²
- Antarctica: 964.847 Km²
Population: 100.313 inhabitants
Density: 4,7 inhabitants per Km² (The Big Island of Tierra del Fuego)
Capital: Ushuaia

[Mid-Night_Sun]

i see this as a russian issue. although they could be useful...at least they arent pushovers.

[ktchong]

This is a tricky situation for China.

The U.S. and NATO were the one that first violated UN Charter by recognizing Kosovo independence. Russia was against it and warned that the U.S. would open the Pandora's Box by recognizing Kosovo. Of course, the US was arrogant and full of itself, and the US didn't give a damn. It was the U.S. that opened the Pandora's Box in the first place.

So now Russia is returning the favor by recognizing the breakaway Georgian regions. The U.S. didn't give a damn about Russia before, so why should Russia give a damn about the U.S. right now? The U.S. can yell, scream and complain, but Russia really has all the power and leverage at this point, and Russia doesn't give a damn -- just like the U.S. didn't give a damn back during the Kosovo incident.

Now, should China support Russia? The problem here is that China has its own separatist problems (i.e., Tibet and Xinjiang.) However, the U.S. had already disregarded UN Charter by recognizing Kosovo independence, and then turned around and whined and complained about Russia doing the same thing with South Ossetia and Abkhazia. So it's clear that the U.S. holds a double standard for itself and other nation, and the U.S. do whatever they wants to do -- with no regard or respect for Russia or any other country.

That means even if China respects the U.S. right now by not supporting Russia, that does not mean the U.S. will return the favor in the future. Americans are not a people who go by the Chinese old saying "if you respect me three inches, I will respect you three feet." Americans demand respect while they go around disrespecting other countries all the time. Neither will Americans respect international laws -- if they want to do something, they'll do it whether it's following the laws or not. Americans set up international laws for others, not themselves, to follow.

[baal]

Russia feels justified because the US recognized Kosovo independence.

The Russians are irritated by American recognition of Kosovo, but it's Canada's recognition that really pisses the Russians off.

http://w01.international.gc.ca/minpub/Publ...mp;docnumber=59 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Canadian imperialists. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[InitialDJay]

it will be interesting to see how china dealing with this situation.

one side is the usa who china has an economic tie with, and the other is russia who has military tie with.

i'm worry whatever side china supports will causes both side to drag china into this.

i prefer we stay away from this european conflict and lets them sort it out while china stands with its decision "dialogue and consultation" on this conflict. it's a good stragetric move to stay neutralize between this deadly power USA and Russia.

[ktchong]

Yeah, I say China should just steer clear of this one. There's nothing for China to gain from either side.

[ktchong]

Anyway, this new turn of event between the U.S. and Russia is actually good for China and Chinese.

The U.S. is always looking for an enemy, a bad guy. Or a couple. Just so they can be the "good guy". Now that the U.S. has its hands full with the Islamic terrorists and Russians, they will leave Chinese alone.

Which means Hollywood -- the biggest culprit of fanning anti-Chinese sentiment in America -- will also start making movies with Russian bad guys instead of Chinese one.

This post has been edited by ktchong: Aug 27 2008, 11:20 PM

[TylerDurden]

The West and Nato has done more harm to China and have major intention and capability to do more harm and return China to its opium war state. China has to support Russia on this. After all Russia supported China on its crisis this year from Szechuan, Xizang, Sudan and Zimbabwe, it is also a courtesy that China pays it forward.

I know most of you will say that the US is the biggest trading partner, blah blah blah... But the US have been disrespecting China lately and lately they have become an economic burden (they are not paying up their debt, everything they bought is in credit). Like all partnerships, some are meant not to last especially from the slimy west. With their economy broke and Bush playing the Hitler role, eventually someone needs to stop this madness.

China do not need to go in militarily as Russia is capable enough to defend herself, but if russia loses China should know that they are next and their survivability gets close to nil without Russia at this point. Only with them together can they defeat this Goliath.

China should support Russia without getting involve directly. China can assist Russia by providing it with more weapons to continue its fight, sell weapons to all the enemies of Nato make sure the Taliban cripples the war machine further and teach them some strategies such as fighting asymmetrically, from soldiers wearing civilian uniforms infiltrating georgian population and to wearing US and Nato allied uniforms in order to confuse hence create mistrust among the allied soldiers. If Russia fights smart, the paper tiger that Nato is will show.

[lluk]

The Chinese should stay away from both sides.

Remember an old Chinese saying: "Divide the barbarians by using them against each other."

[retaxis]

China should support Russia without getting involve directly. China can assist Russia by providing it with more weapons to continue its fight, sell weapons to all the enemies of Nato make sure the Taliban cripples the war machine further and teach them some strategies such as fighting asymmetrically, from soldiers wearing civilian uniforms infiltrating georgian population and to wearing US and Nato allied uniforms in order to confuse hence create mistrust among the allied soldiers. If Russia fights smart, the paper tiger that Nato is will show.

China must destroy the taleban. They are a big reason why xinjiang has power. Their struggle against americans is causing other groups to struggle against China.


In this field we need to act like Iran. Although iranians hate America, they still fight and kill taleban and Al qaeda.

[InitialDJay]

This is a tricky situation for China.

The U.S. and NATO were the one that first violated UN Charter by recognizing Kosovo independence. Russia was against it and warned that the U.S. would open the Pandora's Box by recognizing Kosovo. Of course, the US was arrogant and full of itself, and the US didn't give a damn. It was the U.S. that opened the Pandora's Box in the first place.

So now Russia is returning the favor by recognizing the breakaway Georgian regions. The U.S. didn't give a damn about Russia before, so why should Russia give a damn about the U.S. right now? The U.S. can yell, scream and complain, but Russia really has all the power and leverage at this point, and Russia doesn't give a damn -- just like the U.S. didn't give a damn back during the Kosovo incident.

Now, should China support Russia? The problem here is that China has its own separatist problems (i.e., Tibet and Xinjiang.) However, the U.S. had already disregarded UN Charter by recognizing Kosovo independence, and then turned around and whined and complained about Russia doing the same thing with South Ossetia and Abkhazia. So it's clear that the U.S. holds a double standard for itself and other nation, and the U.S. do whatever they wants to do -- with no regard or respect for Russia or any other country.

That means even if China respects the U.S. right now by not supporting Russia, that does not mean the U.S. will return the favor in the future. Americans are not a people who go by the Chinese old saying "if you respect me three inches, I will respect you three feet." Americans demand respect while they go around disrespecting other countries all the time. Neither will Americans respect international laws -- if they want to do something, they'll do it whether it's following the laws or not. Americans set up international laws for others, not themselves, to follow.

you're right. this is tricky in how china dealing with this.

also i find it weird how the Americans support Tibet independent movement but they calling for anti-Russian who is helping South Ossetia independent movement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused.gif)

[ktchong]

The West and Nato has done more harm to China and have major intention and capability to do more harm and return China to its opium war state. China has to support Russia on this...

Opium war state?

The height of China's Century of Humiliation was the invasion and occupation of the "Eight Nation Alliance" during what some would call the "Third Opium War."

Russia was one of those eight nations. Russia was one of the nations that put China in, as you called it, the "Opium War state".

Russia is not an ally of China. Let those White people duked it out and kill themselves. China should just stay out of the crossfires between Americans and Russians. What China should do is to cheer them on as they kill each other.


This post has been edited by ktchong: Aug 28 2008, 03:19 AM

[ktchong]

China must destroy the taleban. They are a big reason why xinjiang has power. Their struggle against americans is causing other groups to struggle against China.
In this field we need to act like Iran. Although iranians hate America, they still fight and kill taleban and Al qaeda.

Sure, let's just destroy the Taliban. Then, when Americans don't have to deal with the Talibans, they can just shift their attention to containing China.

China can deal with Xinjiang and Muslims on its own. Unlike the crusading Christian Evangelist Americans, Chinese have no fundamental quarrel with the Muslims. For China, America -- who is obsessed with containing China so they can stay as the number-one, and with converting Chinese so they can dictate Chinese' way of life -- is the bigger problem.

China's best interest is to for America's terror war to drag on as long as possible. It's a religious warfare between the Evangelist Americans and Muslims. Once Americans are done with Muslims, they will want to "deal" with China. There's no reason to help Americans to deal with the Muslims so that Americans will be able to focus all their hatred on Chinese.

This post has been edited by ktchong: Aug 28 2008, 03:27 AM

[Kiss_the_Girls]

Anyway, this new turn of event between the U.S. and Russia is actually good for China and Chinese.

The U.S. is always looking for an enemy, a bad guy. Or a couple. Just so they can be the "good guy". Now that the U.S. has its hands full with the Islamic terrorists and Russians, they will leave Chinese alone.

Which means Hollywood -- the biggest culprit of fanning anti-Chinese sentiment in America -- will also start making movies with Russian bad guys instead of Chinese one.

what are you on?? Rarely do Americans make the Asian guy the bad guy...It's always the Russians. And there's plenty of Big Name Chinese who have made it in Hollywood.

Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, that chick from Greys Anatomy, Lucy Liu etc