Jakarta-KL controversy-Negaraku (My Country)vsTerang Bulan'(Moon S, Both songs do indeed share the same roots? Options

[galvatron]

Jakarta-KL controversy (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_neutral.gif)

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNew...ory_423219.html

JAKARTA - A BROUHAHA in Indonesia over Malaysia's usage of the Balinese pendet dance in a tourism commercial has now shifted to another controversy involving the Malaysian national anthem.

Indonesians were up in arms after seeing the commercial on Malaysia that featured the pendet dance.

Kuala Lumpur had apologised for the use of the Balinese dance but said the mistake was made by a third party who was paid by Malaysia's Tourism Ministry to produce the commercial.

The Malaysian embassy in Jakarta said in a statement earlier this week: 'Nobody in Malaysia claimed that the pendet dance originated in Malaysia.'

But that is not the end of the story.

A report in yesterday's Jakarta Globe newspaper quoted an executive from a state-owned recording company as asking why Malaysia's national anthem 'Negaraku' (My Country) sounded like the Indonesian song 'Terang Bulan' (Moon Shine).

Mr Ruktiningsih, the head of recording company Lokananta, urged the Indonesian government to act on the 'violation of intellectual property rights'.

'We have to unite against Malaysia, as they keep stealing Indonesia's assets,' (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_twisted.gif) he added.

An Internet search found that both songs do indeed share the same roots. Malaysia acknowledges as much on a government website detailing its monarchy system.

The song Terang Bulan comes from a popular French melody in the Seychelles, that spread to the Malay archipelago in the early 20th century.

It was adopted as Perak's state anthem in 1901. And in 1957, it became the national anthem for Malaysia with the lyrics changed. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_wink.gif)

[Crystallised Dre...]

Wait, let me get this straight... Indonesia took the melody for Terang Bulan from a popular French melody in the Seychelles, added lyrics and called it Terang Bulan, called it an Indonesian song, and no one tried to question if Indonesia in fact 'stole' the melody? Of course, I'm just asking guys, not saying that you stole it in case your nationalistic fervour manifest itself. Also after all these years... only now they are so diligent in protecting their 'assets'? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

Oh wait yea while you guys are at it maybe you wanna say Malaysia stole the American flag design too... and speed-dial the anak angkat Indonesia President Barack Obama to denounce Malaysia's plagiarism... well all I can say in Malaysia's defense is that at least our flag does not look exactly like the flags of two other countries... but then again that's all I can say...

Hehe well anything to distract the people from their own problems, I guess; it's all part of the stress relief programme. After all, who cares about removing the plank from your own eye before telling other people to remove the dust from theirs : P

[DutchEastIndiesM...]

^We did not start this thread...

[sonofgunongjerai]

Wait, let me get this straight... Indonesia took the melody for Terang Bulan from a popular French melody in the Seychelles, added lyrics and called it Terang Bulan, called it an Indonesian song, and no one tried to question if Indonesia in fact 'stole' the melody? Of course, I'm just asking guys, not saying that you stole it in case your nationalistic fervour manifest itself. Also after all these years... only now they are so diligent in protecting their 'assets'? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

Oh wait yea while you guys are at it maybe you wanna say Malaysia stole the American flag design too... and speed-dial the anak angkat Indonesia President Barack Obama to denounce Malaysia's plagiarism... well all I can say in Malaysia's defense is that at least our flag does not look exactly like the flags of two other countries... but then again that's all I can say...

Hehe well anything to distract the people from their own problems, I guess; it's all part of the stress relief programme. After all, who cares about removing the plank from your own eye before telling other people to remove the dust from theirs : P

I personally think that this "Curi Budaya, Curi Lagu," "maling malaun," "hina menghina" things are stupid, baseless and immature beside it has been intertwined together with political crisis. I had seen this kind of thing being the discussion and also some sites flamed with this kind of "Curi Budaya, Curi Lagu, Curi Bahasa, Curi Makanan, Curi Buah, Curi Ikan Arowana" things. It's not only happened to Indonesia and Malaysia, but also to Thailand and Cambodia. Also happened amongst the Laos and Thailand. Tak percaya sama saya? Just go to the threads in Thai, Cambodian, and Laos Chat of AF is enough. In this case where Laotians and Cambodians are attacking, Thailand and Thais became the victim (Thai king is also my king, but they insult him in front of me (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_sad.gif) ). Sometimes Vietnamese being attacked. There are also other sites cursing Thailand came from Cambodians. Political border being inter-twined to cultural similarity or almost similarity as being stolen by etc.... and etc....

I had once sitting together with my Thai counter-parts in the varsity during Thai cultural festival in my varsity. While it came to South Thai region cultural part where there are Malay elements like Joget being showed, some of the Indonesian students began to rant and melatah saying that Thai tried to claim Indonesian culture. Well Joget is not Southern Thai culture but Johore culture (Riau was apart of Johore in 18th C), they just want to simply show that the region is inhabited by Malay speaking people. Also in youtube where a Thai uploader showing the video of Srivichai (Srivijaya) dance (they created the dance movement from Buddhist relics and some research in South Thailand) and some Indonesian posters said that Thai people stolen Indonesian culture. Well, historically Southern Thai was apart of Srivijaiya empire until it liberated itself in 10th C before being attacked by South Indians and absorbed into Thai (kingdom). That's why it's not only the heritage of Indonesian. But those rants came from narrow-minded people without International broad view. So, it made the arguments came and later people misunderstand each other.

In Topix.com which I think among those cheap sites, where we find that it's just a waste of precious time because civilians fighting on media sensational issues. The reporters of certain medias must get some news to be presented and demanded by their boss and also have the due date for everything. So, they must in any way presenting the news. Sometimes medias being used by politicians for their benefits and also used to spread ideologies and propaganda. There are media ethics but it is up to the reporters to abide to it or not beside they have to consider many things. It happens everywhere and civilians will never cease from bickerings, in Malaysia too civilians are fighting about Akhil Hayy and Wahida or Abby Abadi and Norman Hakiem and sometimes about personal problems of artists which shouldn't been the problem of others but since the media needs it to get the attention and rating, they did that. I don't really believe the media, they can be heard but not to be totally believed since we should also ensure everything ourselves through pergaulan, pembacaan, pengalaman sendiri, dan sebagainya.

This post has been edited by sonofgunongjerai: Aug 30 2009, 08:32 AM

[londoh]

(IMG:http://www.uploadplaatjes.nl/plaatjes/1/113333.jpg)

Hi kids, before starting quarrel nr.109516 wait till the Terang Bulan is ready and eat it together (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

[jrockerz]

I thought that this thread were talking about food?

[Crystallised Dre...]

^We did not start this thread...

I think I can still comment to that news regardless of whether or not you guys started this thread, DEIM...

I personally think that this "Curi Budaya, Curi Lagu," "maling malaun," "hina menghina" things are stupid, baseless and immature beside it has been intertwined together with political crisis. I had seen this kind of thing being the discussion and also some sites flamed with this kind of "Curi Budaya, Curi Lagu, Curi Bahasa, Curi Makanan, Curi Buah, Curi Ikan Arowana" things. It's not only happened to Indonesia and Malaysia, but also to Thailand and Cambodia. Also happened amongst the Laos and Thailand. Tak percaya sama saya? Just go to the threads in Thai, Cambodian, and Laos Chat of AF is enough. In this case where Laotians and Cambodians are attacking, Thailand and Thais became the victim (Thai king is also my king, but they insult him in front of me (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_sad.gif) ). Sometimes Vietnamese being attacked. There are also other sites cursing Thailand came from Cambodians. Political border being inter-twined to cultural similarity or almost similarity as being stolen by etc.... and etc....

I had once sitting together with my Thai counter-parts in the varsity during Thai cultural festival in my varsity. While it came to South Thai region cultural part where there are Malay elements like Joget being showed, some of the Indonesian students began to rant and melatah saying that Thai tried to claim Indonesian culture. Well Joget is not Southern Thai culture but Johore culture (Riau was apart of Johore in 18th C), they just want to simply show that the region is inhabited by Malay speaking people. Also in youtube where a Thai uploader showing the video of Srivichai (Srivijaya) dance (they created the dance movement from Buddhist relics and some research in South Thailand) and some Indonesian posters said that Thai people stolen Indonesian culture. Well, historically Southern Thai was apart of Srivijaiya empire until it liberated itself in 10th C before being attacked by South Indians and absorbed into Thai (kingdom). That's why it's not only the heritage of Indonesian. But those rants came from narrow-minded people without International broad view. So, it made the arguments came and later people misunderstand each other.

In Topix.com which I think among those cheap sites, where we find that it's just a waste of precious time because civilians fighting on media sensational issues. The reporters of certain medias must get some news to be presented and demanded by their boss and also have the due date for everything. So, they must in any way presenting the news. Sometimes medias being used by politicians for their benefits and also used to spread ideologies and propaganda. There are media ethics but it is up to the reporters to abide to it or not beside they have to consider many things. It happens everywhere and civilians will never cease from bickerings, in Malaysia too civilians are fighting about Akhil Hayy and Wahida or Abby Abadi and Norman Hakiem and sometimes about personal problems of artists which shouldn't been the problem of others but since the media needs it to get the attention and rating, they did that. I don't really believe the media, they can be heard but not to be totally believed since we should also ensure everything ourselves through pergaulan, pembacaan, pengalaman sendiri, dan sebagainya.

Thanks for sharing sonofgunungjerai. Quite tired of all these neighbourly spats really. Of course like you said the media are like vultures, and would pounce on any news they get and sensationalise it as much as they can. But yea again, this is what you get when you are neighbours... or should I say, when you get very passionate neighbours... you get different perspectives of the story, misunderstandings etc... but like I said if this is one of their several-step stress relief programme then I guess we should allow them some slack, shouldn't we (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

On a more serious note however, my discussions with Indonesian members of another discussion board revealed that a lot of them misunderstand how things are done in Malaysia. They mostly rely on the notorious Indonesian media for their information, which of course like all media cannot be completely trusted. I don't completely blame them though because it's one of the fastest and most convenient ways to get information.

I just can't help but wonder, again and again, why only now, after all these years, do those Indonesian fellows as mentioned in the news diligently protect their national 'assets' or whatever they call it. And anyway, back to the Terang Bulan thingy... can it even be purely considered as an Indonesian product? Anyway the origins of the Negaraku has never been hidden from the Malaysians, even the Malaysian royal portal - http://www.malaysianmonarchy.org.my tells the story as it is! Go figure. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

(IMG:http://www.uploadplaatjes.nl/plaatjes/1/113333.jpg)

Hi kids, before starting quarrel nr.109516 wait till the Terang Bulan is ready and eat it together (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

Hi uncle, thank you for preparing that for us but I think I'll pass that. Feeling too full at the moment. I think I'd rather 'fight' over something that wouldn't make me bloated. You can have it all for yourself then (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[DrGieL3]

I personally think that this "Curi Budaya, Curi Lagu," "maling malaun," "hina menghina" things are stupid, baseless and immature beside it has been intertwined together with political crisis. I had seen this kind of thing being the discussion and also some sites flamed with this kind of "Curi Budaya, Curi Lagu, Curi Bahasa, Curi Makanan, Curi Buah, Curi Ikan Arowana" things. It's not only happened to Indonesia and Malaysia, but also to Thailand and Cambodia. Also happened amongst the Laos and Thailand. Tak percaya sama saya? Just go to the threads in Thai, Cambodian, and Laos Chat of AF is enough. In this case where Laotians and Cambodians are attacking, Thailand and Thais became the victim (Thai king is also my king, but they insult him in front of me (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_sad.gif) ). Sometimes Vietnamese being attacked. There are also other sites cursing Thailand came from Cambodians. Political border being inter-twined to cultural similarity or almost similarity as being stolen by etc.... and etc....

I had once sitting together with my Thai counter-parts in the varsity during Thai cultural festival in my varsity. While it came to South Thai region cultural part where there are Malay elements like Joget being showed, some of the Indonesian students began to rant and melatah saying that Thai tried to claim Indonesian culture. Well Joget is not Southern Thai culture but Johore culture (Riau was apart of Johore in 18th C), they just want to simply show that the region is inhabited by Malay speaking people. Also in youtube where a Thai uploader showing the video of Srivichai (Srivijaya) dance (they created the dance movement from Buddhist relics and some research in South Thailand) and some Indonesian posters said that Thai people stolen Indonesian culture. Well, historically Southern Thai was apart of Srivijaiya empire until it liberated itself in 10th C before being attacked by South Indians and absorbed into Thai (kingdom). That's why it's not only the heritage of Indonesian. But those rants came from narrow-minded people without International broad view. So, it made the arguments came and later people misunderstand each other.

In Topix.com which I think among those cheap sites, where we find that it's just a waste of precious time because civilians fighting on media sensational issues. The reporters of certain medias must get some news to be presented and demanded by their boss and also have the due date for everything. So, they must in any way presenting the news. Sometimes medias being used by politicians for their benefits and also used to spread ideologies and propaganda. There are media ethics but it is up to the reporters to abide to it or not beside they have to consider many things. It happens everywhere and civilians will never cease from bickerings, in Malaysia too civilians are fighting about Akhil Hayy and Wahida or Abby Abadi and Norman Hakiem and sometimes about personal problems of artists which shouldn't been the problem of others but since the media needs it to get the attention and rating, they did that. I don't really believe the media, they can be heard but not to be totally believed since we should also ensure everything ourselves through pergaulan, pembacaan, pengalaman sendiri, dan sebagainya.

Currently, Indonesia need a "new common enemy" to unite their people ... and Malaysia can meet it as their "common enemy" because of our fault ... we and our gov't are still looking down their people and also their nation ...

Honestly speaking, Malaysia has nothing compare with Indonesia in the cultural heritage .. but we have to claim and promote theirs as ours in our tourism events because our people and gov't can get much-much money from it ... Hehehehe

Don't forget that we have an "Ambition" to be a center of Malay world ... So, not only their culture heritage .. but our state universities have also collected many old malays script/paper, legally and illegally, from Indonesia, especially from Sumatra.. Our big ambition as "Master of Malay World" will not happen if we fail to take theirs as ours ...

This post has been edited by DrGieL3: Aug 30 2009, 10:27 AM

[londoh]

There is a new one in today's Kompas:

Malaysia Loloskan Psikotropika ke Wilayah RI

Look at this..

It is a pity those peace loving Indonesians are becoming fffu-kin gila when it concerns Malaysia

This post has been edited by londoh: Aug 30 2009, 10:34 AM

[Crystallised Dre...]

Currently, Indonesia need a "new common enemy" to unite their people ... and Malaysia can meet it as their "common enemy" because of our fault ... we and our gov't are still looking down their people and also their nation ...

Honestly speaking, Malaysia has nothing compare with Indonesia in the cultural heritage .. but we have to claim and promote theirs as ours in our tourism events because our people and gov't can get much-much money from it ... Hehehehe

Don't forget that we have an ambition to be as a center of Malay world ... So, not only their culture heritage .. but our state universities have also collected many old malays script/paper, legally and illegally, from Indonesia, especially from Sumatra.. Our big ambition as "Master of Malay World" will not happen if we fail to take theirs as ours ...

Indonesia can promote their culture to the best of their advantage. It's all in the way they market themselves - they've already got the package. I mean, even Indonesians themselves agree they've not been doing enough for their tourism. So why blame us? If you ask me these 'stolen dances' or songs whatever you call it are not even the main attractions. People go to Malaysia for a great variety of reasons - like for example in Sarawak ecotourism and our Dayak culture are the main players and we also have our own Rainforest World Music Festival and Miri Jazz Festival that are quickly picking up steam in the international music scene. We promote Malaysia as a whole, instead of depending or concentrating on a limited number of places.

So instead of concentrating too much on these 'stolen cultures' issues and blaming Malaysia for it, I think Indonesia should concentrate more on what it can do to prove itself as a very culturally rich nation, and that if tourists want to see the real deal of things like Gamelan and Barongan/Reog Ponorogo that they saw in Malaysia, they should head to Indonesia. But of course, what am I as a Malaysian to give advice on things like this...

This post has been edited by Crystallised Dream: Aug 30 2009, 10:36 AM

[londoh]

For ages Indonesians have sold their cultural heritage to whoever had money. When they visit my home country, which is The Netherlands, they like to say when visiting museums "See what the Dutch stole from us". They should be glad that there is still a lot preserved of their heritage. Themselves don't fu...ng care. But all the things they see seem to make them very unhappy....a strange attitude. One should go, just for the fum, to Indonesian museums, most of the collections are brought together by the Dutch and nothing has been added during 64 years of "merdeka, it is only the money that counts for a very small number of people in the R.I. If the Dutch did not preserve the Borobudur the statues had been sold to other countries and the big stones had been used for foundations for villa's.

[XxRyoChanxX]

here we go again...>_<

I'm so tired of reading news like these

This post has been edited by XxRyoChanxX: Aug 30 2009, 10:57 AM

[Majapahitans]

Indonesia can promote their culture to the best of their advantage. It's all in the way they market themselves - they've already got the package. I mean, even Indonesians themselves agree they've not been doing enough for their tourism. So why blame us? If you ask me these 'stolen dances' or songs whatever you call it are not even the main attractions. People go to Malaysia for a great variety of reasons - like for example in Sarawak ecotourism and our Dayak culture are the main players and we also have our own Rainforest World Music Festival and Miri Jazz Festival that are quickly picking up steam in the international music scene. We promote Malaysia as a whole, instead of depending or concentrating on a limited number of places.

So instead of concentrating too much on these 'stolen cultures' issues and blaming Malaysia for it, I think Indonesia should concentrate more on what it can do to prove itself as a very culturally rich nation, and that if tourists want to see the real deal of things like Gamelan and Barongan/Reog Ponorogo that they saw in Malaysia, they should head to Indonesia. But of course, what am I as a Malaysian to give advice on things like this...

Personally I don't have any problems with Malaysia. I still regard them as our closest neighbor in term of relations, share many common culture and ancestry etc for most of southern Peninsula, the northern are closely related to Thailand.

About the culture, I can say Malaysia is our closest neighbour. The similarities and common Malay culture between Peninsula and Sumatra is a lot more than let say Sumatra with Sulawesi (or even Sumatra with Java-Bali). When I visit Muzium Negara Malaysia I can see they even exhibit Borobudur temple, Majapahit ship model, collection of Krisses from Peninsula to Bali, and many Malay customs and culture that the same as Malay culture in Jambi, Riau, and Palembang.

Don't forget it was the European colonialism that draw the present boundaries between our countries (Netherland and British). In the past often both sides of Malaccan Strait were belongs to single political entity: Srivijaya, Malacca, Johor-Riau Sultanates. But European colonialism separated some part but united other parts (conquered and colonized) of this myriad kingdoms and sultanates of Archipelago. Without European colonialism probably Maritime Southeast Asia (Indonesia-Malaysia-Singapore-Brunei-Philippines) would composed of 30 something kingdoms and countries similar to small Carribean countries.

I think the soo called "cultural claim" problem of our neighboring country arisen by contribution of both two parties: Malaysia and Indonesia.

Tourism Promotion
The cultural problem arisen because of Malaysian aggressive promotion in contrast of Indonesian idle and lack of promotion. Because of this we are probably worried about the "damage" caused by the "false and misleading image building" launched by Malaysian tourism promotion in expense of Indonesia. For unenlightened and uneducated foreigner (in the term of not reading encyclopedia etc), some of cultural products that can be traced originated from Indonesia could be mistaken as solely belongs to Malaysia. It is already circulating story among us, of how Indonesian abroad are shocked when they confronted by their foreign friends after going back from visiting Malaysia and tell them that Satay, Wayang, Keris, Rendang and Batik are Malaysian. As nationalist (many of Indonesian are) of course they are expressed their protest and say it was originated from Indonesia and Malaysia later adapt it.

Malaysia are really good (and too aggressive) in promoting their tourism. They promote everything; food, culture, dance songs. And by tourism Malaysia gain a lot of benefit and profit. Indonesia on the other hand is quite idle in tourism promotion. We have soo many diverse and rich culture to promote, too many material, yet too little effort to promote and too little money to spend on promotion.

Cultural and Political View
Malaysia tends to uphold the Pan-Malay cultural view, which included the cultural realm of larger Malay race (Austronesian to be correct which included Indonesia, Phillippines, as far as Madagascar) as their own. That's why the blunder of including the Balinese Pendet dance in Enigmatic Malaysia promotion happened, because they think if its belongs to larger Malay-Austronesian they are belongs to Malaysia too, although Balinese culture are truly belongs to Balinese people, and Balinese culture never thrived in Malaysia.

Indonesia formed by diverse ethnic groups and culture are quite sensitive in this cultural origin matter. As we taught early in elementary and junior high school about the origin of certain art forms, songs, dances etc. The acknowledgement, credits, and appreciations is our way to maintain harmony and diversity among myriad ethnics groups.
By acknowledge that Keris is originated from Java (as archaeological findings did discover the earliest records of Keris is in Java) is the way to appreciate the Javanese ethnic groups achievement. As well as Wayang, and Batik. If other ethnics such as Sundanese and Melayu also developed their own motifs of Batik, its alright as long as they not claimed as the home and origin of Batik.
Also Rendang from Minangkabau, it is fact that Negeri Sembilan is composed by Minangkabau people, but Malaysian promotion of Rendang as Malay dish may overshadowed and mislead the fact that the origin of Rendang as Minangkabau original recipe in expense of Minangkabau heritage.

However Indonesian might sometimes behave too emotionally and narrow mindedly. I think the true problem is not merely in the matter of claiming, but in the matter of how can they benefit and promoted so much in our cultural heritage expense, also the danger of false or misleading image building launch by Malaysian tourism promotion. Indonesian must realize culture is dynamic, spreading, and evolve. The creating-perfecting-mastering-recording-spreading-adapting-copying-evolving of certain cultural product is natural and common thing. Sharing common culture is natural things among neighbour, and the main urgent problem is lies within: Indonesia lack of promotion as the real deal, the origin of certain art and cultural form.

This post has been edited by Majapahitans: Aug 30 2009, 12:21 PM

[londoh]

Hi Maya, you are funny, a long explanation that leads to nothing. It is not abt being extravert but just trying to do some introspection. A thing Indonesians cannot handle. It is very difficult to live on isolated islands it narrows being able to have a vision. What the Fu.. for historical reasons does it matter where rendang comes from (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

This post has been edited by londoh: Aug 30 2009, 03:04 PM

[jrockerz]

I do concern more for people who have double standart like this f@g

Currently, Indonesia need a "new common enemy" to unite their people ... and Malaysia can meet it as their "common enemy" because of our fault ... we and our gov't are still looking down their people and also their nation ...

Honestly speaking, Malaysia has nothing compare with Indonesia in the cultural heritage .. but we have to claim and promote theirs as ours in our tourism events because our people and gov't can get much-much money from it ... Hehehehe

Don't forget that we have an "Ambition" to be a center of Malay world ... So, not only their culture heritage .. but our state universities have also collected many old malays script/paper, legally and illegally, from Indonesia, especially from Sumatra.. Our big ambition as "Master of Malay World" will not happen if we fail to take theirs as ours ...

How can you claim all of your cultural heritage as yours if you did not register and patent it as your assets and how can you protect and develop your cultural heritage if your gov't has no serious attention on it ..

We did it because your cultural heritages are part of Malay heritages and/or Nusantara's heritages ...

Please don't be angry and/or protest if we want to use and develop all Malays cultural heritages .. As "Bangsa Serumpun" we will not angry if you want to use and claim all of our cultural in Tanah Melayu as yours ..

[sonofgunongjerai]

Currently, Indonesia need a "new common enemy" to unite their people ... and Malaysia can meet it as their "common enemy" because of our fault ... we and our gov't are still looking down their people and also their nation ...

Honestly speaking, Malaysia has nothing compare with Indonesia in the cultural heritage .. but we have to claim and promote theirs as ours in our tourism events because our people and gov't can get much-much money from it ... Hehehehe

Don't forget that we have an "Ambition" to be a center of Malay world ... So, not only their culture heritage .. but our state universities have also collected many old malays script/paper, legally and illegally, from Indonesia, especially from Sumatra.. Our big ambition as "Master of Malay World" will not happen if we fail to take theirs as ours ...

Urmmm, Malaysian Malay people are not really thinking that Malay is the center of the world, might be some are ignorant but not all of them are ignorant. That happens due to Srivijaya supremacy if you understand our local ancient history, even the Thais know about this but Malaysian citizen ourselves don't really know this because we are still ego with our own racist foundation, education and pride. Not becoz Malaysia want to be the center of the world or Malay world, Malay is just an ethnicity in South-East Sumatera Sumatera while in Malaysia, it is due to Srivijaya conquest around 7th C. BTW, Malay people in Malaysian Peninsula are the blend of mon-khmer people and the negritos in certain places and also there are people who claim themselves as Malay in Borneo and in Brunei. We do realize about this.

I'm actually tired of talking about ancient SEAn history including of Malaysia for those who can't differentiate what is ancient kingdom and modern nationalism. The text by Tun Sri Lanang was written during the fall of Malacca kingdom. He's counted as the citizen of Malacca, not Malaysian or Indonesian. Other kingdoms in Sumatera like Aru, Inderagiri, Rokan, Siak and Kampar was once under Malacca tributary. Pahang (Indrapura), Terengganu and Perak too were under Malacca tributary and they are the kingdoms on their own and had already exist long before Malacca was established. Kedah also had asked the help of Malacca due to Siam (Ayutthaya) intervension in Kedah around 14th C. Kedah had exist longer than Malacca. Why Kedah king asking help if not in some similarity that they share? it is because of the sense of brotherhood and because of the longer connection of Sailendra family with Malayan Malay people. Proto-Malay people had exist even in ancient Siam, not only in Malayan Peninsula, Borneo, and South Sumatera. Sailendra family who ruled Srivijaya is believed to descend down from SEAn mainland.

(IMG:http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/32/4032-004-A677F28E.gif)

About looking down to them, I guess it happens in cheap sites like Topix.com beside being burned by Indonesian medias but that could be the reactions of some Malaysians that come after when flame of insults being turned on non-stoppable. Youngsters love to fight for nothing, compared to elders because youngsters has less patience and knowledge. Even I'm of Thai ancestry but I still respect people from Indonesia. Some of TKI actually talking with harsh manner to me, but I don't treat it as political problem and still trying to be polite. When I'm working in the airport, I had also helped an Acheh lady who was arrested in Malaysian immigration center and she knows many thing about us in Kedah too. I assume them as our relatives since Aceh community too living in the coastal area of our state since 16th C. I had also seen TKI being hit like animals by contractors who hire them when they don't understand instructions. What do you think I feel when seeing human-being being abused no different to an animal and being cast with tantrums? Not only Indonesian but also Vietnamese and Bangladeshis are abused, but since they are not working as maid, people can't really see it. That is individual problem, people don't know good manner or might be the education on manner had been neglected. If Malaysian people are arrogant, we don't even donate to Acheh Tsunami victims and also the victims of earthquake in Java Island but it happens otherwise when our TV station like TV3 keep advertising about the need to help those victims in Java Island and Aceh.

Malaysia actually has many other elements of culture in Borneo side which is in Sabah and Sarawak but I think they might also share their elemnt of culture with their neighbors in Kalimantan. Also from Northern Malaysia and East-Coast. But like you said that is the fault of, particularly Malaysian Tourism Board which is so fond of Javanese culture and I can tell you that most of UMNO leaders are of Bugis, Javanese, South Sumateranese decent who recently migrated to Malayan Peninsula around 15th C or 18th C. We have Mak Yong theater from Kelantan, Mek Mulong theater from Kedah, Menora which is also shared with Songkhla Province in Thailand, Tarian Asyik from Kelantan which is also shared with Patani Province in Thailand, Dabus in Perak which was introduced by Persians, and many others.

About Wayang Kulit and Batik, which had caused previous "remeh" conflicts between Indonesian and Malaysian citizen. I guess everyone should mention too about the versions of those things. Wayang Kulit is actually our past Hindu culture no matter in Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, or Cambodia. I know some Malay people who are raised with "strict" Islamic root (like if it is true) like some Christians and don't be surprised some "devout" Buddhists. Buddhist basically don't believe God or gods, only in Ti-Rattana or three gems. They oppose any linkage toward our previous past and also had banned several traditional theaters like Mak Yong and Mek Mulong because of "Pemujaan Guru" elements but we can't avoid our past no matter how.

I had watch the Mak Yong theater in my varsity last year and I had seen none "Pemujaan Guru" element being included in the theater beginning because they had modified and remove those things from the theater, those who played the theater are all Muslim too, I guess they understand their religion but that is again the fault of a certain political party for being extremist in some part just to get "vote." Every political party in Malaysia whether it is Malay or non-Malay are actually with their own agendas. So, basically as a Malaysian, I don't take "baby talks" seriously. They are politicians and will always be politicians.

Wayang Kulit

If we say that it is ancient Hindu culture, it must have links to ancient India. I got some information about Wayang Kulit from Southern Indians when I watched an Indian movie in Tamil called Dasawataram (10 Jelmaan Phra Narayana atau dewa Vishnu) lakonan Kamal Hassan. Take note that this movie is actually a "HARDCORE" Vaishnava Hindu devotional movie, I had watch few dozen of Hindu devotional movies from India regardless languages and regions although I'm a Muslim.

Anda tak percaya sama saya? Nah, lihat contoh ni, lagu dalam video ni bertajuk Mukundha Krishna and actually is a real devotional Vaishnava Bhakthan song. And anda akan dapat lihat wayang kulit dimainkan sebelum patung wayangnya terbakar. Hope non-Hindus in Indonesia or Malaysia not offended. Orang India Selatan membuat filem berdasarkan keadaan masyarakat setempat mereka dan bukan hanya membuat filem untuk berkhayal atau suka-suka. Ada elemen kebudayaan, nasionalisme negeri mereka, dan sebagainya juga.

Tholu Bhommalaata

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7BR_w0yrLw...feature=related

Well again, we as Malaysian are not really ignorant or as what had been said, extremist becoz the bomber in Indonesia Mat Top Nordin is from "Johore," Malaysian Peninsula. We do watch foreign movies and aware of other culture outside our countries because our TV's not only menayangkan filem-filem dan menyiarkan lagu-lagu dari Indonesia but also from India, China, and HK without being dubbed since there are also Malaysian citizens from Indian and Chinese ethnicity, kami ada stesen radio berbahasa Tamil dan Cina sepenuhnya and I use to listen to them, but I don't know about other Malaysians. I'm sure Miss CD, Galvatron, and other Malaysians realize this, we have Jiu Jiu Ba Ba, THR Raaga, MY.FM, Ai.FM, Minnal.FM and etc whether swasta or kerajaan sponsored.

Wayang Kulit from India is called as Tholu Bhomma and played in Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, and Tamil Nadu, and guess what, Tholu means Leather, and Bhomma means Puppet in Telugu. We are still not clear about Talaing culture of Lower Burma Mon state yet which is bordering Southern Thailand province because of Burmese Junta restriction and oppression. Burmese people called Mon people as Talaing, and researches said that Talaing means Telugu. So as to say, concluding Wayang Kulit is totally Indonesian culture because Javanese and Balinese played it was wrong too because many places play it. Our version of Wayang Kulit and the music of Wayang Kulit in Kedah and Kelantan is the same or almost the same with the version in South Thailand. In Thailand they still doing Puja to Dewa Pelindung or Thepa Raksh (Nenek Moyang and other elements like Chatuloka) but in Malaysia the practitioners had long changed it with Islamic ritual like doa. Example for comparison:

Nang Thalung by Ajarn Suchart Subsin, Nakhorn Sri Thammarat (Negara Sri Dharmaraja or Tambralingga)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yACzolCrlc4

Traditional Nang Thalung Show in Surat Thani Province

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yb_STsV9dY...feature=related

Wayang Kulit Kelate Tradisional (Kelantan)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKmdQ0utKHQ...PL&index=45

Kelantanese are highly nationalist to their state/kingdom. They don't even give a damn to Malaysia or standard Malay language based from Johore Classic dialect, but they proudly speak their own language. Even Chinese and Indian community in Kelantan don't speak Chinese or Indian as much as other Chinese and Indian community in other states but speaking Kelantanese.

Contemporary Wayang Kulit in Kedah by Pak Majid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKUZMYR8IYE

We share the style of Wayang with the people in Songkhla, South Thailand. Pak Majid father actually has dual citizenship which is Thai and Malaysia because of historical relation, his father is a Thai citizen from Satun (Sentul) and Sentul is previously apart of Kedah. The wayang style is not even orthodox anymore and they don't talk about Rama and Sita or any traditional tales anymore becoz people will feel boring, sometimes they talk about today's issue like H1N1, respecting others, health and hygienic and etc with humorous jokes. We in Kedah too are damn proud of our kingdom (state). We also don't even give a damn too much on Malaysia except that we know our state is now in Malaysian Federation. We don't normally showing our "Kenegerian" or "Semangat Setia Negeri" to others like Kelantanese. In Malaysia, Kelantanese are assumed like Indonesian. They also claimed our vocabulary in Kedahan Malay as theirs while we actually share the same vocabulary and most of Northern Kedahan like me speak both languages Thai and Malay with our pelat. Southern Thai Malays of Patani Province too speak like us and sound like Kelantanese. That happens because they don't know anything about us, but we know about them and even some Kelantanese admit that they're ignorant because they never mingle with other people except of their own people.

Then again, it is the "particular" fault of Malaysian Tourism Board not all Malaysian citizens because they had displayed the style of Wayang Jawa, not the local one. We can differentiate the style by just looking at the shape of Patung Wayang and the music style. I don't know whether the people in Malaysian Tourism Board are ignorant or simply because they adore Javanese culture since they are of Javanese ancestry? Actually I myself raging without have to wait Indonesian declare that Wayang Kulit is Indonesia "copyright" because they are not using the right style or version of Wayang.

Oh yeah, in China there is Wayang culture too particularly in Northern China part (Bei Fang Xiang). Whether Wayang starts from China or from India I can't give any specific answer.

Wayang In Shaanxi

Their Chinese dialect and accent is quite cute. It's written China Shadow. Hope they don't upset Indonesian.

Wayang in Beijing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJCBldGdT6U...feature=related

Wayang in Wuzhen, near Shanghai

The Wayang is about Xi You Ji (Pengembaraan Ke Barat). Some said that Wayang had began in China during Han dynasty. There are Shanghainese Chinese in Kelantan. They don't mingle with other Chinese community in other Malaysian states. Also Yunnanese in Terengganu and Kelantan state. Possibly they too had made the culture of Wayang in Malaysia colorful?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq4fVPPvhD8...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyCXSM45NHg...feature=related

Cambodian Wayang

This part is about Vanara (Monkey) fight. Cambodia is a proud only native Khmer country too. Hope they don't upset others with their Wayang. Still, whether Wayang is introduced from India or China, we are not sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC07Tp3cgug...feature=related

Turkish Karagorz Wayang

There are also Turkic speaking people in Western China region of Xinjiang. Also Turkic speaking people in Central Asia. In Turkey is only a part of Turk people. They were previously Buddhist and of Jew faith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87_ty8dfHh0

Batik

Batik is also worn by Tai Dehong people from Yunnan, Southern China. How can it reached so far to Yunnan in China when it is actually originated from Java Island which is now apart of Indonesia? Tai people from Sukhothai too had subdued us in Northern Malaysia-Southern Thailand, Tai people had been in SEAn mainland since 7th C, living in Khmer territory by building settlements after they were pushed down by the Han (Chinese). And also Batik too was worn by the people of Srivijaiya, I heard this from my friend, a Thai citizen. Even he knows about Batik too. The style of Batik in East Coast Malaysia is different from Java Batik. Some people do not regard Tai and Malay people as different, but I don't know, culture could be shared or there might be further old relationship in the term of economy, political, or geographical between these people?

Batik Kelantan style, pattern and version

(IMG:http://www.kedairakyat.com/03/images/batikku.jpg)

Batik Jawa style

(IMG:http://gusthy.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/batik1.jpg)

Batik version of Yunnan, China

(IMG:http://72.232.229.42/thumb/8/82/YunnanWomen.JPG/300px-YunnanWomen.JPG)

Those Dai women in the pic are wearing Batik. Just because Yunnanese don't have country of their own but their country being included in China, their art is not known to World and Batik could not be apart of their culture? It depends on you to popularize and marketing your own version of arts beside your creativity to attract people enjoying your art. By making false accusations, it doesn't even help you to promote anything but making others scared of you. Quoting an Indian citizen view about culture similarity or almost similarity, "Every culture is a manifestation of human evolution and great in its own right . Am sure you know this deep down. Don't let your ego fog your wisdom."

Batik Tablecloth

(IMG:http://www.melcherruwart.com/oldsite/Images/Yunnan_2005/Dali/03_Dali_Batik/Batik%20000_25.jpg)

Dai Batik Painting

(IMG:http://www.made-in-china.com/image/4f0j00LeMEnoCzhgkRM/Batik-Painting-X-001-.jpg)

Laos Batik style

(IMG:http://img3.travelblog.org/Photos/5046/194456/t/1445815-Laos-Batik-0.jpg)

Southern Thai Batik style

(IMG:http://grocerythai.com/images/95201.jpg)

Well guess what, the style and the color of the batik is almost the same with Kelantanese and Terengganu Batik but still have several distinctive style. Batik is used as Pathung or Pengikat Pinggang atau Kepala for farmers and fishermen in both South Thai and Malaysian bordering states.

Makanan

Many people in Europe too sharing Cheese as apart of their traditional food or could it be said as heritage. They have Italian Gorgonzola, French Roquefort, English Cheddar, Dutch Gouda, Italian Parmesan, and etc and they are all Cheese. Please correct me, anyone from Europe if I'm wrong. But I never see them talking to each other in immature manner although a French might have problem with an English, is that means they don't know where cheese came from or shared in other countries and trying to claim cheese as their solely heritage?

For certain people like me... I'm sorry to say and I'm trying not to sound harsh, but I can't help seeing that Indonesia as Java-Centralize country, especially during the Confrontation heat, we see Indonesia as trying to invade us by using force. We think that, it must be among the reasons why Indonesia always has grudge to Malaysia Federation because Indonesia can't invade us. But to understand us, we are not like Indonesian citizen in the term of nasionalisme membuta tuli or ikut-ikutan.

We know that our Central government is controlled by whom and what is their real ethnicity, Melayu Jati, Bugis, Jawa, or etc. Even if you ask Miss CD who live in Sarawak. I'm pretty sure, she does know about who and where is the Central government and her state actually has autonomous power on their own. We have to present our ID card when we want to enter her state or Sabah because of their distinctive rights being respected by other states. When Indonesia being mentioned, we could only think of Java because we only heard about Java being introduced with the brand of Indonesia.

We do know and realize that several veteran artists in Malay film industry of Jalan Ampas (Singapore) around 50's and 60's are of the regions in Indonesia today like Siti Tanjung Perak (Siti Sundari Samat), Maria Menado from Sulawesi. Teuku Nyak Puteh or P.Ramlee whose father is an Achehnese. Mustarjo (Pendekar Mustar), Datuk Aziz Sattar, and Marpiah Abdul rahim in Bujang Lapok are from Jawa Island, we can decipher them from their Malay accent and their physical features. We don't even claim them because we know about them but they are considered as the stars of Malay language cinema around 50's and 60's, not of Malay people.

A Funny Scene in Seniman Bujang Lapok in 1961

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEoJHmsPzJY...feature=related

Ayyoyyo.... Apa pasal muka banyak shushah jerit2 kasi? Taik punya halll la... Sikit gelaklah Ayya, kasi tengok ini cerita, yengge vahh, vahhh... That Indian man in the movie is actually a Kedahan Malay man, his name is Mohamad Zain. He don't even know how to speak Tamil in his whole life, hahahaha.

This post has been edited by sonofgunongjerai: Aug 31 2009, 03:37 AM

[sonofgunongjerai]

Culture & Society - The Arts
Dance and Theatre - Wayang Kulit

A spellbinding medium for storytelling, the Wayang Kulit is a traditional theatre form that brings together the playfulness of a puppet show, and the elusive quality and charming simplicity of a shadow play.

Its origin remains a mystery, though it appears to have a strong Javanese and Hindu influence (in Kelantan). Today, it is spread out, in various forms and guises, across Asia - from Turkey and China to Indonesia and of course, Malaysia.

Here, it is most popular in the East Coast of Peninsular Malaysia, particularly in Kelantan, the heartland of Wayang Kulit, where it took root more than 250 years ago. Today, however, urbanisation and modern entertainment have led to a decline in its popularity.

There used to be four main varieties of the form in this country: the Wayang Kulit Siam of Kelantan; the Wayang Gedek, performed by the Thai communities of Kedah and Perlis; the Wayang Kulit Jawa, performed by the Javanese communities in Selangor and Johor; and the Wayang Kulit Melayu, performed by the Javanese communities of Terengganu. Today, only the first two are performed.

All of the varieties of this unique theatre form employ the principle of light and shadow to bring to life its characters, depicted by intricately carved puppets. The flat two-dimensional puppets are carved, then painted, by hand out of cow or buffalo hide.

Each puppet, a stylised exaggeration of the human shape, is given a distinctive appearance and not unlike its string puppet cousins, has jointed "arms". There may be as many as 40 puppet characters, all with different traits and mannerisms, in a performance.

One man is responsible for breathing life into this array of characters: the master puppeteer and storyteller known as the Tok Dalang.

The task of the Tok Dalang requires immense skill and endurance, for not only does he control the movements of the puppets, he also has to provide each one with a distinguishable voice, and at times, to sing, all while "conducting" the accompanying traditional music ensemble by tapping a rattle (known as the kechrek) with his feet.

During a typical performance, which can last several few hours, the Tok Dalang sits behind a semi-transparent white cloth which acts as a screen. The puppet figures are silhouetted onto the screen with an oil lamp as the light source.

The stories of the wayang kulit are traditionally based on the Hindu epics of the Ramayana and the Mahabharata. Usually, the Tok Dalang begins by introducing the main characters; first the puppet storyteller, followed by Maharaja Wana (Rawana), Sri Rama (Rama), Siti Dewa (Sita), the Laksamana and the court jesters, Pak Dogol and Wak Long.

Then he tells the story by moderating his voice, and controlling the varied movements, to suit each and every character. For instance, the gruff-voiced demon king Maharaja Wana moves erratically and aggressively, while the court jesters scratch their heads and speak in shrill voices.

The shadow play is invariably accompanied by a gamelan orchestra, one that consists of about 10 to 30 musicians.

Traditionally, the Wayang Kulit is staged during religious festivals and important occasions, such as weddings, births and circumcision. Primarily, it was taken as an entertainment medium. However, it also served to impart moral values, as well as to pass down folklore and historical tales.

Like many other art forms in Malaysia, it was believed to have strong ties to the spirit world. It used to be customary to make food offerings to the spirits during and after a performance, but this practice is now frowned upon.

In fact, in 1990, when the conservative political party Parti SeIslam Malaysia (PAS) came into power in Kelantan, the staging of Wayang Kulit was prohibited altogether, for its un-Islamic elements.

However, the practitioners of this dying art form have adapted, ensuring its continuous survival. Today, a new brand of Wayang Kulit has emerged. Instead of the traditional tale of Hikayat Sri Rama - the Malay adaptation of the Hindu epic Ramayana - the stories now are based on local folklore, history, popular comedies, current issues and secular tales.

(IMG:http://allmalaysia.info/msiaknow/arts/images/dance/wayangkulit.jpg)

Even the traditional forms of the puppets have evolved. The new puppets can take up any role unlike the original puppets which are fixed characters. Also, modern elements such as buildings and cars have been incorporated.

To keep up with the times, today's Tok Dalangs do not only use the Kelantanese dialect but also mainstream Bahasa Malaysia, a few English words, the occasional Bollywood song, and even familiar tunes from TV serials to spice up their performance. The best thing is they always improvise as they perform, so audiences don't get a fixed dialogue or narration with every show.

All their efforts have not gone to waste. The "modernisation" of the Wayang Kulit has since changed the minds of the Kelantan State Government which has since lifted the ban. The art form is slowly picking up again but whether it would achieve the same kind of recognition as in days gone by remains to be seen.

source: The Star

Let see, how one of the media source in Malaysia write an article. The article is only talking about Wayang in Kelantan and not mentioning anything about Wayang in Kedah or other states in Malayan Peninsula but it does exist in other states with various names. The article also doesn't mention anything about punya bangsa Malaysia or punya bangsa Indonesia things and rancangan mencuri budaya orang or kes Ambalat menyebabkan kita harus bertindak di luar kawalan... Gimana nih???? Don't worry, Indonesian can also use the marketing "strategy" used in Malaysia such as "nyanyian Hindustan dalam wayang kulit" and "using bahasa Indonesia in Wayang performance instead of Basa Kawi" unless if it is feared as spoiling the authentic cultural art.

Our medias actually can't hide anything like Indonesia medias because of the variety in the newspapers themselves, also in broadcasting medias. This is The Star newspaper, a publication of NGO based in Pulau Pinang, not of Malaysian government support.

There are few other newspapers which might be supporting their community, political parties, and others in Chinese like Nanyang Siang Pau, Sin Chew Jit Poh, China Press (Zhong Guo Bao), Kwong Wah Yit Poh and Tamil Wosai, Makkal Wosai, Tamil Nanban for Tamil. The Star, The New Straits Times are among English newspapers, while for Malay readers there are Berita Harian, Utusan, Sinar Harian, and Kosmo. For PAS people who are the supporters of opposition party read a newspaper published in Malay such as Harakah. I don't know how many other newspapers in Sabah and Sarawak. Only the people there know. So, how do you think Malaysians are if it comes to nasionalisme Malaysia tegar like in Indonesia? Mai mi khrap, khun Prah Than mod (tak ada lah, Tuan yang tersanjung semua)... I call everyone as Sir or Tuan doesn't mean that I'm bowing to others to be stepped on my head, but that is a sign of respect. Being polite to others not to accept insults. Get the meaning right or need interpretations? Chapeh dehhhhh....

This post has been edited by sonofgunongjerai: Aug 30 2009, 09:39 PM

[DutchEastIndiesM...]

GEEZZZZ the thread was started by well known troller....an "agent provocateur" trying his best provoke and flamed even more with the comments made by drdegriel or some $hit like that and we are still "discussing" and "debating" about it...we can ignore trolls like Otong, Joko, Petrus, Jagoan yet we can't do the same to Galvatron and dr something something. You all know how these 2 acts, in M'sia they act as if they are Indonesians, while here they act as if they are M'sians.

[londoh]

Maaf, Indonesia cannot exist without enemies from the outside world, they love to have enemies, like the Dutch, the Aussies, Malaysia, Singapore, Paman Sam, OPM, RMS, etcetera. It is a kind of glue for “Bersatuan & Kesatuan”. With enemies from the outside one does not have to look at the own internal problems, which actually are immense in Indonesia. It is very sad to see what a mess they made of their beautiful country. Although it is their own affair. If they want to live like that, silahkan aja toh. It is also typical for people who live on islands, their thinking is isolated from the rest of the world.

This post has been edited by londoh: Aug 31 2009, 01:08 AM

[tangawizi]

I listened to the song and it sounds horrible!!!