Han Identity: What are the Han Nationalists Saying? |
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Han Identity: What are the Han Nationalists Saying? |
Feb 1 2010, 02:38 AM
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There are many theories in the West regarding the formation and status of Han Chinese ethnic identity. A common characteristic between them is that they tend to written by Western authors. But given that this is about another group's self-identity, I thought it would be interesting to see what the (Han) Chinese are saying about it themselves. I was especially interested in the theories coming out of mainland China, as the political status of Taiwan complicates matters.
So, what are the Han Chinese nationalists saying? Mr. Song Yuren’s Han Lectures at the Elm Altar Series provides a perspective. The series is, unfortunately, very long, so it is perhaps best to deal with it in parts. The first part of this post will deal with the concept of "hua" and "wenhua" as defined by Song Yuren. QUOTE Cultural Discourse of Han, Tartar, and Western Systems
First of all, we have to know what is culture [wen-hua 文化], what exactly is this culture thing. When you look at the definition of culture today, then there’s plenty out there: Go to your closest Xinhua Bookstore and find a book discussing culture, and go find a definition. From what I see, there’s no less than 50 or 60 of them. Definitions of every kind, like what humans create, like material, like whatever. Whatever the case, there’s a whole string of them and I can’t remember them all. In actuality, our ancestors have a very simple explanation for culture. You want to know culture, you must first know what is wen 文 and what is hua 化. Because we are a Han School forum, we stand from the perspective of interpretation based on our Han school of theory, not the angle of Westerners, nor the perspective of those former nomadic ethnicities. What exactly is this wen thing? What does this wen equate to in the distant past? Interchangeable with this character, is the word [wen 紋], as in “pattern [hua-wen 花紋]“. Some ask, what does the wen in “pattern” mean? This is actually quite simple. Take a look and look again, see that roosters, peacocks – as long as they [animals] are male, the patterns are all naturally beautiful. In the animal world, as long as they’re stronger, or slightly higher up the hierarchy, their bodies all have patterns, this is the pattern from evolution. Some ask, why does it need to evolve a pattern? You’ll get it when you go observe them. Nowadays the Westerners have taken many television documentaries about the natural world. They observed nature in detail – in actuality, in this animal world, they have a commonality, shared trait. As long as they have patterns on them, they’re relatively advanced in the animal world. How advanced is it? In many respects it starts to not have to use brute force. For example, take a chicken – in this coop of chickens you have a rooster, and you pluck its feathers clean. This old rooster, it’s not pretty, so it’ll feel embarassed - like people, say if you’re bare naked now, it’d be hugely embarassed, and it’ll hide itself up. Even chicks have the same reason – you pluck its fancy coat, and it’ll hide itself away. Say that it managed to come back out, gotten used to it, and wants to find a hen to mate – it only has one method. What method? That’d only be brute force. What is this brute force [man-jing 蠻勁]? The meaning of man is a large animal that can grab smaller animals. That’s why our ancestors once called the people living south of us, our Southerners, as man, as barbarians [ye-man ren 野蠻人]. They called them man, why is that? They were just like tigers and panthers, and hunt small animals for food, up in the mountains. So we called them barbarians, since they only used brute force. A rooster, given that it has no good looks, and it wants to find a hen, will have to chase all over the yard, and whenever the hen can no longer run, can this rooster accomplish its wish. On the other hand, those roosters that look pretty, with good looks, and a graceful call – that kind of rooster, with one flap of the wing, give a “cuckoo”, and the hens will rally up and flock to its side. This rooster doesn’t need to use brute force. So what does this wen 文 mean? That’d be not using brute force – it is an opposing concept relative to brute force. Say that you grab a knife, and tell the other guy to get up. Then that’s not wen, that’d be “wu” [武, martial] – or actually, it’s not even wu, that’s just man, brute force, or you could even say it’s tyranny, but the closest name would still be “brute”. Man and wen are opposing concepts. So what does this Hua 化 mean? Our ancestors said, “A myriad things come to being [萬物化成]“, meaning that nature has evolved into this state. Hua is to change. So what does Wen-hua [culture] really mean? If we have to give it a definition, as in a relatively easier to understand terms, that’d be “trying to change someone else by not using brute force”, that’d be called Wen-hua. It is actually very simple, and once you understand this you’ll get what culture means. Some say that the Manchu Qing Empire had no wen-hua, and the Mongols had no wen-hua, then they’re absolutely right – that’s because back then when they came in [China], they were holding onto a knife, grabbing a big axe, and “Get the bloody hell out of the Central Plains!” and the Hans ran. You don’t fight them, they chop off your head. What is this called? This is called brute force. They have taken us, our exemplary people, and turned them into a bunch of barbarians, making us become slaves. What is this hua‘ing us? This is called Man-hua [蠻化, lit. "Barbarian-izing"]. When our ancestors talked about wen-hua and man-hua, they were talking about opposing concepts. Once you have a concept of wenhua, then you’d know what is a wenhua-person. What is this cultural person? That’d be someone who can change others without using brute force. If you are to call yourself a cultural person, then you cannot change someone by means of force. If you are to do that, then you are called a barbarianizing person, not a cultural person. You must make very clear of this idea. Let’s raise an example to better understand this. What example? Look at the guy doing fortune-telling at the end of the street – he is a cultural person. Originally, an old lady was holding a basket, about to shop for some groceries. When she got there, he says, “Come here Sis, sit down for a moment, and I’ll give you a word of advice or two.” Once he starts talking away, saying this and that is good, bringing up a whole set of theories, one moment going all the way out there, and the other back down to earth. The first moment he’d go to your ancestors, and the next moment about today, and then starts talking about the future. This old lady listens, and thinks that there’s some sense in it – now keep in mind that she was originally intending on shopping – she’s not going to do that now, so she places down her basket, “wait for me there Bro’,” and she goes back home – what for? To get spare change to tip this guy! This is the archetypical person of culture. He hasn’t used any brute force, and he didn’t point a knife at the old lady and said, “go home and get me money”, or drag a hammer – all he did was talk reason, never using brute force. The old lady was originally planning on buying groceries but now she’s not, so what’s she changed to doing now? She’s now going to go home and get money for the fortunetelling guy, this is the typical wenhua person. So what’s a barbarian-izing person? Let me give an example, easily understandable to the lay person – the city inspectors you find today. These city inspectors go in their patrol cars, and just stand there. Voila, the street peddlers all run for their lives. Those merchants and vendors were originally set up shop there, but that changes changes as soon as they see the car coming, and they change attitudes because they’re scared. But through what is this fear caused by? This is not through wen that they’re scared, but by the city inspectors’ brute force. That’s because they know that if they don’t scuttle, the inspectors don’t give a darn and kick down the stalls first. What happens if you still don’t listen? If you don’t comply, fine, several of them grab you and stuff you into the car, and drag you to an isolated place. They rely completely on brute force. This is the typical barbarianizing person. Actually, we don’t even need to go far – just head out onto the street and take a look, and you can see the difference between cultural people and barbarianizing people. Of course there’d also be ones with a bit higher level, that is, they know how to use both wenhua and manhua: First they come try to talk some reason to you, and if that doesn’t work, they use their fists. If he knows both, then their standard is a bit higher. The examples we’ve raised here are all cultural people on the small scale, and he could change no more than an old lady or the several stalls out there on the street. This post has been edited by BurdenOfAges: Feb 1 2010, 02:39 AM |
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BurdenOfAges Han Identity: What are the Han Nationalists Saying? Feb 1 2010, 02:38 AM
BurdenOfAges What Song Yuren seems to be saying here is that th... Feb 1 2010, 02:53 AM
BurdenOfAges The second part of this dialectic is a discussion ... Feb 1 2010, 03:19 AM
pintara 汉民族其实是... Feb 1 2010, 03:36 AM
pintara 中华商周时代... Feb 1 2010, 03:42 AM
foi2 QUOTE (BurdenOfAges @ Feb 1 2010, 02:38 A... Feb 1 2010, 05:34 AM
pintara some repost regarding the above issue
http://www... Feb 1 2010, 09:21 AM
pintara i found another repost regarding some relevant iss... Feb 1 2010, 09:32 AM
Mid-Night_Sun i think its oversimplification to say todays China... Feb 1 2010, 12:14 PM
mannstein QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Feb 1 2010, 01... Feb 1 2010, 01:20 PM
Mid-Night_Sun QUOTE (mannstein @ Feb 1 2010, 02:20 PM) ... Feb 1 2010, 01:33 PM
mannstein link : http://www.han-people.com/bbs/Announce/Ann.... Feb 1 2010, 01:32 PM
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sewoth QUOTE (guoguohu @ Feb 2 2010, 02:17 AM) s... Feb 2 2010, 02:52 PM
guoguohu QUOTE (sewoth @ Feb 2 2010, 03:52 PM) You... Feb 2 2010, 04:40 PM
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Flowerseed Many people sounds just like some "corrupted ... Feb 1 2010, 08:04 PM
ccorea there is no Han. Han is a mix of many things. Feb 1 2010, 08:23 PM
Flowerseed QUOTE (ccorea @ Feb 1 2010, 09:23 PM) the... Feb 1 2010, 08:37 PM
tianya QUOTE (ccorea @ Feb 1 2010, 08:23 PM) the... Feb 1 2010, 08:51 PM
FHuang If culture is the ability to make others cooperate... Feb 1 2010, 10:31 PM
Fencer QUOTE (FHuang @ Feb 1 2010, 10:31 PM) If ... Feb 1 2010, 10:51 PM
manillavilla I find so much similarity between chinese and sout... Feb 1 2010, 09:54 PM
Fencer QUOTE (manillavilla @ Feb 1 2010, 10:54 P... Feb 1 2010, 10:04 PM
Titanium Some of the comments on this thread make my head h... Feb 2 2010, 11:34 AM
tianya U mean the culture similiarity between singapore c... Feb 1 2010, 09:56 PM
chiuchimu To place some perspective on this current discussi... Feb 1 2010, 11:40 PM
guoguohu QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Feb 2 2010, 12:40 AM) ... Feb 2 2010, 03:34 AM
BurdenOfAges QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Feb 1 2010, 11:40 PM) ... Feb 2 2010, 03:39 PM
InitialDJay QUOTE (foi2 @ Feb 1 2010, 06:34 PM) Inter... Feb 2 2010, 01:55 AM
guoguohu QUOTE (InitialDJay @ Feb 2 2010, 02:55 AM... Feb 2 2010, 03:28 AM
orange peel QUOTE (guoguohu @ Feb 2 2010, 04:28 AM) n... Feb 24 2010, 10:07 PM
tianya deleted Feb 24 2010, 10:14 PM
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Fencer I always find its ironic its always these insecure... Feb 2 2010, 08:31 AM
guoguohu QUOTE (Fencer @ Feb 2 2010, 09:31 AM) I a... Feb 2 2010, 09:44 AM
Fencer QUOTE (guoguohu @ Feb 2 2010, 10:44 AM) n... Feb 2 2010, 10:22 AM
kenmirzz QUOTE Actually China is the largest non-nomadic em... Feb 2 2010, 09:42 AM
guoguohu link : http://www.hanminzu.com/bbs/viewthread.php.... Feb 2 2010, 10:15 AM
guoguohu contray to the link you give me , i like to give y... Feb 2 2010, 10:40 AM
Fencer QUOTE (guoguohu @ Feb 2 2010, 11:40 AM) c... Feb 2 2010, 11:25 AM
guoguohu QUOTE (Fencer @ Feb 2 2010, 12:25 PM) Lol... Feb 2 2010, 12:26 PM
guoguohu QUOTE (Fencer @ Feb 2 2010, 12:25 PM) And... Feb 2 2010, 12:37 PM
Fencer QUOTE (guoguohu @ Feb 2 2010, 01:37 PM) t... Feb 3 2010, 05:01 AM
guoguohu QUOTE (Fencer @ Feb 3 2010, 06:01 AM) Li ... Feb 3 2010, 05:33 AM
subsupersonic <object width="560" height="340... Feb 2 2010, 02:04 PM
BurdenOfAges Since there seems to be some interest in the Japan... Feb 2 2010, 03:14 PM
Titanium Wait so Chinese culture is no longer pure because ... Feb 2 2010, 03:33 PM
ShandongDaHan Totally contradictory. If he's implying that w... Feb 2 2010, 11:55 PM
guoguohu chinese civilisation was ruined by tartar murderou... Feb 3 2010, 12:02 AM
Fencer QUOTE (guoguohu @ Feb 3 2010, 01:02 AM) c... Feb 3 2010, 05:08 AM
tianya QUOTE (Fencer @ Feb 3 2010, 06:08 AM) Lol... Feb 3 2010, 06:07 AM
guoguohu QUOTE (tianya @ Feb 3 2010, 07:07 AM) ... Feb 3 2010, 07:44 AM
Fabby QUOTE (guoguohu @ Feb 3 2010, 06:33 AM) y... Feb 3 2010, 08:29 AM
guoguohu QUOTE (Fabby @ Feb 3 2010, 09:29 AM) Our ... Feb 3 2010, 09:49 AM
guoguohu link : http://www.han-people.com/bbs/Announce/Ann.... Feb 3 2010, 04:42 AM
guoguohu what makes chinese race , is it based on what fabb... Feb 3 2010, 01:14 PM
hcl Here's this Chinese nationalist's summary:... Feb 3 2010, 02:17 PM
hcl The only ethnic groups currently regarded as ... Feb 3 2010, 02:24 PM
hcl The enemy of the world today is the JWO. Details o... Feb 3 2010, 02:59 PM
guoguohu link to great chinese hero sung yu ren last essay ... Feb 4 2010, 01:37 AM
Faraday QUOTE (guoguohu @ Feb 4 2010, 01:37 AM) l... Feb 4 2010, 09:29 AM
guoguohu QUOTE (Faraday @ Feb 4 2010, 09:29 AM) Bt... Feb 4 2010, 11:00 AM
Faraday QUOTE (guoguohu @ Feb 4 2010, 12:00 PM) t... Feb 4 2010, 12:10 PM
Titanium BurdenOfAges, I know you had good intentions as al... Feb 4 2010, 11:01 AM
BurdenOfAges QUOTE (Titanium @ Feb 4 2010, 11:01 AM) B... Feb 5 2010, 03:25 PM
Brewer QUOTE (BurdenOfAges @ Feb 5 2010, 04:25 P... Feb 5 2010, 05:36 PM
Mid-Night_Sun thanks for posting this Burden of Ages. it is a gr... Feb 6 2010, 12:39 AM
guoguohu QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Feb 6 2010, 12... Feb 7 2010, 06:33 AM
foi2 QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Feb 6 2010, 12... Feb 26 2010, 01:32 AM
guoguohu .... pass Feb 8 2010, 04:15 PM
yeyehevah RE: Han Identity: What are the Han Nationalists Saying? Feb 24 2010, 06:33 AM![]() ![]() |
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