3 Muslim Malaysia women caned for extramarital sex, It was not clear whether the men who had sex with women also caned Options

[galvatron]

3 Muslim Malaysia women caned for extramarital sex
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...8DkvhQD9DTSFOO0
By JULIA ZAPPEI – 3 hours ago

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — Authorities in Malaysia caned three Muslim women for having extramarital sex, making them the first women in the country to receive such punishment under Islamic law, an official said Wednesday.

The caning of women has fueled debate about whether Islamic conservatism was intruding into people's personal lives in this moderate Muslim-majority country. Another woman, Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno, a 32-year-old mother of two, was sentenced to caning last year for drinking beer.

Kartika's sentence has not been carried out, but authorities at a women's prison near Kuala Lumpur on Feb. 9 caned three other Muslim women who had been convicted in an Islamic Shariah court for having sex outside of marriage, according to a Home Ministry official. They did not explain why the punishment was only announced Wednesday.

Each woman received between four and six strokes of a rattan cane, the official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to make public statements.

Home Minister Hishammuddin Hussein announced the caning earlier Wednesday. He did not release details of their identities or when they had been sentenced but said that one of the women was released last week after spending a month in prison.

Home Ministry officials did not describe where on their bodies they received the strikes, but authorities have previously said that the caning of women would be done with a thin stick on the back — not the buttocks.

The punishment for women is supposed to be largely symbolic rather than aimed at causing pain, unlike the caning of rapists and drug smugglers with a thick rattan stick on bare buttocks that causes the skin to break and leave scars.

Officials at the women's prison who could comment on the caning were not immediately available.

It was not clear whether the men who had sex with the women were also caned, but the caning of male convicts occurs regularly for a wide range of crimes.

Kartika, the woman convicted of drinking beer, has insisted she wants to get the punishment over with, but government authorities said they needed to train personnel to properly carry out the penalty first.

Kartika's case also sparked concerns about whether conservative Islamists, who advocate harsh punishments, are gaining influence over Malaysia's justice system.

Malaysia follows a dual-track justice system. Shariah laws apply to Muslims, who account for nearly two-thirds of Malaysia's 28 million people, in all personal matters. Non-Muslims — Chinese, Indians, Sikhs and other minorities — are covered by civil laws and are not subject to Islamic courts.

This post has been edited by galvatron: Feb 17 2010, 08:30 AM

[SagaciousLuDa]

this country is so backwards lol

[SyedHussein]

If the man are non-muslim, probably foreigner, they may not be covered under the same law.

This should happen long ago. harsh punishment are the only thing that keep this people in line. In fact, i think this punishment is too soft. 6 strokes? it should be 50. and the male, muslim or not, should be punish too. Why? you know it's wrong and yet you done it nonetheless. If the non-muslim want free sex, so be it, do as much as you like among yourself, we have no desire to interfere in your religious point of view. but we Muslim are very strict when it come to morality and to us education must be accompanied by enforcement and retribution. so we want to punish a few muslim for transgressing Islamic moral codes, it's none of your business. If they don't want to be punish then don't do it.

[kenmirzz]

If the man are non-muslim, probably foreigner, they may not be covered under the same law.

This should happen long ago. harsh punishment are the only thing that keep this people in line. In fact, i think this punishment is too soft. 6 strokes? it should be 50. and the male, muslim or not, should be punish too. Why? you know it's wrong and yet you done it nonetheless. If the non-muslim want free sex, so be it, do as much as you like among yourself, we have no desire to interfere in your religious point of view. but we Muslim are very strict when it come to morality and to us education must be accompanied by enforcement and retribution. so we want to punish a few muslim for transgressing Islamic moral codes, it's none of your business. If they don't want to be punish then don't do it.

Double standard again. Will you exonerate someone who have sex with a 9 year old girl and accumulating more than 11 sexual partners throughout his lifetime? Some of the sexual partners he didn't even marry for example, Mariyya Qibtiyya. As for Safiah, after completely obliterated the male members of her tribes, he had sex with her on the same day. Is that moral thing to do? Don't come and talk moral when your unholy thug committed all these despicable things. Your kind licensed unlimited sex with female captive of wars. That's immoral.

[SyedHussein]

Obviously, the woman was neither captive of war nor slave aren't they? If they are, then we may talk. Sure, there's room for sex with slaves and captives of war since they were considered slave too. but there's no slavery today and so the rules doesn't apply. and FIY, 9 years old was considered a minimum marriegable age back then. and the marriege was exceedingly happy for both. When Islam started spreading throughout Arabia, Marriage to the Prophet became an honor most women would have been delighted to accept. However, Muhammad didn't marry for pleasure as shown by his selections from available women. and He did married to only one woman for 28 years until her death.

His marriage to the very young 'A'ishah was not a frivolous act. She was the only wife alive when the need to record the details of the Prophet's personal life and practices for posterity became urgent.

Muhammad also married Hafsah, the daughter of his close companion Omar. She was a 40 years old widow who didn't find a suitable husband. He married Zeinab, the widow of a Muslim who died in battle defending the young Muslim Nation. She was kind and charitable which earned her the nickname: "mother of the weak". She was not young and died within 2 years of her marriage to the Prophet.

Muhammad married Umm Salamah, the old widow of a Muslim who died in battle leaving many children to support. He also married a Christian, Maria and a Jew, Safiah. He married Ramlah the daughter of Abu Sufian, who led the Arabs against Muhammad and Islam. Ramlah and her husband had converted to Islam and immigrated to Ethiopia to escape persecution in Mecca. Her husband converted to Christianity and left her.

He married his cousin Zeinab following her divorce from his adopted son Zaid who used to be his servant. Muhammad had asked for her hand for Zaid and persisted until she accepted. She mistreated Zaid because of her high social status until he divorced her. This made her unfit to marry a status conscious Arab. Her subsequent marriage to the Prophet shattered the Arabs' concepts of status and marriage.

[kenmirzz]

Obviously, the woman was neither captive of war nor slave aren't they? If they are, then we may talk. Sure, there's room for sex with slaves and captives of war since they were considered slave too. but there's no slavery today and so the rules doesn't apply. and FIY, 9 years old was considered a minimum marriegable age back then. and the marriege was exceedingly happy for both. When Islam started spreading throughout Arabia, Marriage to the Prophet became an honor most women would have been delighted to accept. However, Muhammad didn't marry for pleasure as shown by his selections from available women. and He did married to only one woman for 28 years until her death.

The one I highlighted in bold display a deep indoctrination and brainwashing that have clouded your rational judgment. 9 year old back then is still similar with a 9 year old female child as at now, small and innocent. A person who lusted upon a 9 or even 11 year old is a pedophile. According to you, the marriage was a happy one, that's from your own sources. However, we all know that she cannot remarry again after his demise, and waged a bloody battle against the closest person to your unholy man, Ali Bin Abi Talib. She also didn't have any love for this man's sons, especially Hassan when she prevented him to be buried near your unholy man.

What?? He didn't marry for pleasure? Come on, how can your conscience believe in this ludicrous apologetic approach?

Juwairiya bint Harith/al-Harith was a captive. Bukhari vol.3 book 46 ch.13 no.717 p.431-432. Sahih Muslim vol.2 no.2349 p.520 says that Mohammed attacked the Bani Mustaliq tribe without any warning while they were heedlessly grazing their cattle. Juwairiya was a daughter of the chief. Sahih Muslim vol.3 no.4292 p.942 and Abu Dawud vol.2 no.227 p.728 and al-Tabari vol.39 p.182-183 also say Juwairiya/Juwairiyyah was captured in a raid on the Banu Mustaliq tribe. She had been married to Musafi’ bin Safwan, who was killed in battle.
Mohammed’s wife Jawairyiyah used to be named Barrah. Abu Dawud vol.1 no.1498 p.392. However, Bukhari vol.8 book 72 ch.107 no.212 p.137; Abu Dawud vol.3 no.4935 p.1377-1378 say Zainab’s name used to be Barrah.
Juwayriyyah bint al-Harith bin Abi Birar bin Habib, great grandson of Jadhimah al-Mustaliq of the Khuza’ah group, was taken as booty when Muslims raided the al-Mustaliq tribe. Her husband, Musafi’ bin Safwan Dhu al-Shuir bin Abi Asrb bin Malik bin Jadhimah was killed in the battle. She was a prisoner of war who agreed to marry Mohammed. al-Tabari vol.39 p.182-183; al-Tabari vol.9 p.133.
Juwayriyyah was captured at the Battle of al-Muraysi [against the Banu Mustaliq]. al-Tabari vol.39 p.183
Juwayriyya married Mohammed when she was 20 years old. al-Tabari vol.39 p.184

A nearly 60 year old man married with a 20 year old war captive after murdering all male members of her tribe??? Her father and husband were killed and your own sources dare to say she "consented" to the marriage? Is this some kind of crazy joke?

As for Khadijah, she was a wealthy lady who owned a business empire( The evidence that pre-Islamic women enjoyed more right than post Islamic condition), she had authority over him and supported that unholy man financially. If that man had intended to double cross her by practicing polygamous indulgence, she will squeeze him then and there. Have you ever wonder why your unholy man turn into sexual craved person after his first wife's demise? Think man, think.

His marriage to the very young 'A'ishah was not a frivolous act. She was the only wife alive when the need to record the details of the Prophet's personal life and practices for posterity became urgent.

Do you mean this:

Muslim (8:3309) - Muhammad married Aisha at the age of nine. (See also Bukhari 58:234)

Bukhari (62:18) - Aisha's father, Abu Bakr, wasn't on board at first, but Muhammad explained how the rules of their religion made it possible. This is similar to the way that present-day cult leaders manipulate their followers into similar concessions.

Muslim (8:3311) - The girl took her dolls with her to Muhammad's house.

Bukhari (6:298) - Muhammad would take a bath with the little girl and fondle her.

That small innocent girl was still playing with dolls, damned it!

Bukhari (62:6) - "The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives."

Is that a character of a holy man??? He cheated you with his impiety and hypocritical piousness. Period.

As for Aisha's psychology, suffice to say that the wound was deep. It's deep enough that cause her to utter this:

Sahih Muslim

Book 008, Number 3424:

' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.

Book 008, Number 3425:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.

Book 008, Number 3427:

Umm Salama said to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her): A young boy who is at the threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me, whereupon 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: Don't you see in Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) a model for you? She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhaifa said: Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is something that (rankles) in the mind of Abu Hudhaifa about him, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely).

Book 008, Number 3428:

Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported: I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon himy, saying to 'A'isha: By Allah, I do not like to be seen by a young boy who has passed the period of fosterage, whereupon she ('A'isha) said: Why is it so? Sahla daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust) on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She (Sahla bint Suhail) said: He has a beard. But he (again) said: Suckle him, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. She said: (I did that) and, by Allah, I did not see (any sign of disgust) on the face of Abu Hadhaifa.

Only a psychologically wounded person can give such injunction. Can't you see it???

This unholy man also mistreat his wife, Saudah due to her old age. She feared that she will be divorced thus conceded the unholy man to spent on her turn with Aisha. Wow!!! You still praise this man?

And if a woman fears ill usage or desertion on the part of her husband, there is no blame on them, if they effect a reconciliation between them, and reconciliation is better, and avarice has been made to be present in the (people's) minds; and if you do good (to others) and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is aware of what you do. You will not be able to be equitable between your wives, be you ever so eager; yet do not be altogether partial so that you leave her as it were suspended. If you set things right, and are godfearing, God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. But if they separate, God will enrich each of them of His plenty; God is All-embracing, All-wise. S. 4:128-130

The verse above supported by this:

Ibn Kathir wrote:
Making peace is better than separation. An example of such peace can be felt in the story of Sawdah bint Zam'ah who WHEN SHE BECAME AGED, THE PROPHET WANTED TO DIVORCE HER, but she made peace with him by offering the night he used to spend with her to A'isha so that he would keep her. The Prophet accepted such terms and kept her.
Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi recorded that Ibn ‘Abbas said, "Sawdah feared that the Messenger of Allah might divorce her and she said, ‘O Messenger of Allah! Do not divorce me; give my day to 'A'ishah.’ And he did ...
In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that 'A'ishah said that when Sawdah bint Zam'ah BECAME OLD, she forfeited her day to 'A'ishah and the Prophet used to spend Sawdah's night with 'A'ishah ...

When Sauda was old she was afraid Mohammed would divorce her, so she gave her turn to ‘A’isha. Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2130 p.572


My apology human friend. This is too much and can never be a moral and noble character. Learn for your own self.

[mankind]

[quote name='kenmirzz' date='Feb 18 2010, 12:17 AM' post='4445306']

Hallo Mr Mughal Mirzza

Mr Salman, Rushdie,Ayaan Hirsi Ali & Taslima Nasreen are all looking for you!

[kenmirzz]

Hallo Mr Mughal Mirzza

Mr Salman, Rushdie,Ayaan Hirsi Ali & Taslima Nasreen are all looking for you!

Is it?? Tell them to be careful lest some assassin from certain group attempt to assassinate them just for speaking the truth. We all know about the fate of Asma' Bint Marwan and Abu Afak some thousands years ago.

This post has been edited by kenmirzz: Feb 18 2010, 04:21 AM

[tengkukuning]

[quote name='kenmirzz' date='Feb 18 2010, 05:18 AM' post='4445514']


Mehmet Ali Agca is also looking for you. He is not happy with your claimed to be a Mongol. He strongly believe that
you are an Indian (Mughal).

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/world/europe/19pope.html

This post has been edited by tengkukuning: Feb 18 2010, 05:10 AM

[Ralf]

...... Kartika, the woman convicted of drinking beer, has insisted she wants to get the punishment over with, but government authorities said they needed to train personnel to properly carry out the penalty first..... The punishment for women is supposed to be largely symbolic rather than aimed at causing pain, unlike the caning of rapists and drug smugglers, etc......

Well if Kartika wants to get it over with, then I'll volunteer to do this "symbolic caning" and afterwards we'll go and have a beer together.
Ah.... maybe a "symbolic beer" because I hate beer.
I'll have teh botol or fresh coconut, and then me and Kartika can hang five at Sunway Lagoon's wave pool in KL.

[kenmirzz]

Mehmet Ali Agca is also looking for you. He is not happy with your claimed to be a Mongol. He strongly believe that
you are an Indian (Mughal). madcool.gif

That's cool. By the way, being a Mughal mean I have Persian, Turkic, Pashtun and Mongol blood even if I am in India or Kyrgyzstan.

[SyedHussein]

' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.

Book 008, Number 3425:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.

Book 008, Number 3427:

Umm Salama said to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her): A young boy who is at the threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me, whereupon 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: Don't you see in Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) a model for you? She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhaifa said: Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is something that (rankles) in the mind of Abu Hudhaifa about him, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely).

Muhammad Ibn ‘Umar told us: Muhammad Ibn ‘Abdullah, Az-Zuhri’s nephew, told us on authority of his father that he said: an amount of one milk drink was collected in a pot or glass, so Salim used to drink it every day, for five days. After this, he used to enter at her while her head is uncovered. This was permission from Messenger of Allah to Sahla bint Suhail.

Salim used to enter Sahla’s home when he was her adopted son, but when Islam forbade the adoption, a transitional phase was necessary because Salim was like a real son to Sahla and it was difficult for her to push him away as a stranger. Furthermore, Salim have lived there almost all his life and he desired Sahla’s as much as any son desired his own mother. This is the reason for this kind of permission of the Prophet and this permission is only for Suhail after considering her complicated position. One is indeed shocked to see how this kind gesture of the Messenger is given the most disgusting interpretation.

Making peace is better than separation. An example of such peace can be felt in the story of Sawdah bint Zam'ah who WHEN SHE BECAME AGED, THE PROPHET WANTED TO DIVORCE HER, but she made peace with him by offering the night he used to spend with her to A'isha so that he would keep her. The Prophet accepted such terms and kept her.
Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi recorded that Ibn ‘Abbas said, "Sawdah feared that the Messenger of Allah might divorce her and she said, ‘O Messenger of Allah! Do not divorce me; give my day to 'A'ishah.’ And he did ...
In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that 'A'ishah said that when Sawdah bint Zam'ah BECAME OLD, she forfeited her day to 'A'ishah and the Prophet used to spend Sawdah's night with 'A'ishah ...

When Prophet Muhammad married Sawdah bint Zam'ah, she's a widow who’s neither young nor beautiful. The Messenger , after considering the hardship she face when she leave behind all she have for the sake of her faith, decide to marry her, not out of sexual desire, but out of his desire to provide for her during her hard time. But when the Islamic government was properly established, The prophet decide to divorce her because her need are no longer desperate and she no longer desire sex. But such is the honor of being a wife of the Prophet that Sawdah refuse it. Since she no longer desireable and desire, She willingly gave up her night in exchange for being the mother of believers, a status far exceed any pleasure this world has to offer.

That small innocent girl was still playing with dolls, damned it!

I find it rather interesting that certain people have no understanding of historical practices in general and condemn behaviour not conforming to the times they live in as backwards. You are clearly an ignorant one of such ilk. Did you know that it was quite common to marry girls that had just attained puberty historically ? If you reply that Aishah was below that age then again we see your lack on knowledge - girls in hotter climates reach puberty earlier than those in colder climates. I know that this topic probably makes you think you actually know something and can use it to defame Islam , but curiously enough this point was never used by the medieval Christians against Islam...because they essentially practiced it themselves as well. Get of your high horse and try to educate yourself lest you look like an idiot. Prophet Muhammad didn't consummate the marriege until the time when Aishah have her first menstruation, which happen to be when she's 9 years old. Wether it is possible for a young girl to be a mother? please read this.
BBC NEWS UK

As for Khadijah, she was a wealthy lady who owned a business empire( The evidence that pre-Islamic women enjoyed more right than post Islamic condition), she had authority over him and supported that unholy man financially. If that man had intended to double cross her by practicing polygamous indulgence, she will squeeze him then and there. Have you ever wonder why your unholy man turn into sexual craved person after his first wife's demise? Think man, think.

Long after Khadija’s death, The messenger still mention her regularly and often visit her relatives and present them with gifts. His love for long deceased Khadijah cause his other wives, especially Aishah to grow jealous. And it’s Khadijah who proposed to The Messenger, not the other way around. And when He lived with Khadijah, he never going around spending her wealth. He lived a modest life, never wear anything or eat anything more luxurious then what a Majority of arabs of the time wear and eat. With Khadijah wealth, he could’ve built a Luxurious dwelling, and yet we never see nor heard about Prophet Muhammad Grand Palace or at least a wealthy mansion worthy of his position as a head of Islamic State.

ps: One thing i learn about Christianity is that, when they're strict, they're too strict and when they are lenient, they are too lenient. excessive in both ways.

This post has been edited by SyedHussein: Feb 18 2010, 08:17 PM

[kenmirzz]

Muhammad Ibn ‘Umar told us: Muhammad Ibn ‘Abdullah, Az-Zuhri’s nephew, told us on authority of his father that he said: an amount of one milk drink was collected in a pot or glass, so Salim used to drink it every day, for five days. After this, he used to enter at her while her head is uncovered. This was permission from Messenger of Allah to Sahla bint Suhail.

Salim used to enter Sahla’s home when he was her adopted son, but when Islam forbade the adoption, a transitional phase was necessary because Salim was like a real son to Sahla and it was difficult for her to push him away as a stranger. Furthermore, Salim have lived there almost all his life and he desired Sahla’s as much as any son desired his own mother. This is the reason for this kind of permission of the Prophet and this permission is only for Suhail after considering her complicated position. One is indeed shocked to see how this kind gesture of the Messenger is given the most disgusting interpretation.

Mr Syed, you didn't provide reference for the hadith above. Why adoption which is one of the noblest practice of humankind was prohibited to satisfy the lust of that unholy man? Take a look at this:

Qur'an (33:37) - "But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed."

One day Muhammad went out looking for Zaid (Mohammed's adopted son). Now there was a covering of hair cloth over the doorway, but the wind had lifted the covering so that the doorway was uncovered. Zaynab was in her chamber, undressed, and admiration for her entered the heart of the Prophet". (The History of al-Tabari, vol. 8, p. 4)

If I go to my adopted son's house and saw my daughter in law in such seductive position, am I justified to ban adoption in favor of snatching the wife of this adopted son of mine? If a layman does this despicable act, any civilized person will comment in critical way because it's unethical. That unholy man had already possess many beautiful wives and due to his crave for lust, a noble practice of adoption was banned, thanks to him. Moreover, those verse I listed bear no value at all in terms of moral uplift. I am surprised that you try to whitewash this unholy man. You cannot apply different set of standards on this separate cases just because one is a layman and the other is an alleged messenger. Any charlatan can claim to be one and receive direct revelation from god. Ironically, most liar charlatan failed by any standard when his private life is gauged accordingly.

No wonder the controversial Egyptian scholar encouraged adult girl to give their milk to their non-related colleague in the office to make both of them become sibling so that there is no expediency for the female to cover themselves afterward. That's preposterous, pal.

I find it rather interesting that certain people have no understanding of historical practices in general and condemn behaviour not conforming to the times they live in as backwards. You are clearly an ignorant one of such ilk. Did you know that it was quite common to marry girls that had just attained puberty historically ? If you reply that Aishah was below that age then again we see your lack on knowledge - girls in hotter climates reach puberty earlier than those in colder climates. I know that this topic probably makes you think you actually know something and can use it to defame Islam , but curiously enough this point was never used by the medieval Christians against Islam...because they essentially practiced it themselves as well. Get of your high horse and try to educate yourself lest you look like an idiot. Prophet Muhammad didn't consummate the marriege until the time when Aishah have her first menstruation, which happen to be when she's 9 years old. Wether it is possible for a young girl to be a mother? please read this.
BBC NEWS UK

I checked the link you provide, thank god that the male is not someone who is 54 year old. Your flawed argument that female in hot climate mature faster than those in cold one is another wishful thinking. The Arabs small girl of 9 year old doesn't become pubescent faster than their counterpart in Europe or Kyrgyzstan. In any civilized society, a girl who is still playing with dolls, even if she is already menstruated, is still not fit for sex, pregnancy and delivery. Well, you can cite some isolated cases to prove that even a 6 year old can get pregnant or in this case, 1 year old: http://www.javno.com/en-world/1-year-old-g...-brother_208734 or this: http://www.city-data.com/forum/parenting/3...pregnant-2.html

I am unsure whether defamation from other religious group constitute evidence for truth. One thing I do know is that Jesus Christ was a moral and humble man, so also Buddha. Their lifestyles are blameless as far as lust, sex or killing are concerned.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19277042 Check this out. Apparently, your god forgot to forbid early sex marriage but was more interested in the private conjugal life of the unholy man which had no moral relevance at all. Suraa At-Tahrim testify to this.

When Prophet Muhammad married Sawdah bint Zam'ah, she's a widow who’s neither young nor beautiful. The Messenger , after considering the hardship she face when she leave behind all she have for the sake of her faith, decide to marry her, not out of sexual desire, but out of his desire to provide for her during her hard time. But when the Islamic government was properly established, The prophet decide to divorce her because her need are no longer desperate and she no longer desire sex. But such is the honor of being a wife of the Prophet that Sawdah refuse it. Since she no longer desireable and desire, She willingly gave up her night in exchange for being the mother of believers, a status far exceed any pleasure this world has to offer.

Please read the hadith sources I provide. I am marveled at your sugarcoating of the event. I don't know how deep the degree of brainwashing this unholy man has injected into your mind. That unholy man was keen on divorcing an unattractive and old wife who had sacrificed herself for him by taking care of his offspring. This man had no problem marrying the prettiest Jewish girls after raiding their tribes but when it comes to real companion who sacrificed herself for him, he merely interested to kick her out of the house? Who was going to support her financially then? I am surprised at your act of defense, pal.

Long after Khadija’s death, The messenger still mention her regularly and often visit her relatives and present them with gifts. His love for long deceased Khadijah cause his other wives, especially Aishah to grow jealous. And it’s Khadijah who proposed to The Messenger, not the other way around. And when He lived with Khadijah, he never going around spending her wealth. He lived a modest life, never wear anything or eat anything more luxurious then what a Majority of arabs of the time wear and eat. With Khadijah wealth, he could’ve built a Luxurious dwelling, and yet we never see nor heard about Prophet Muhammad Grand Palace or at least a wealthy mansion worthy of his position as a head of Islamic State.

I didn't deny that they needed each other at that time. However, he was financially depended upon her because she was a rich merchant. It's not customary among the desert dweller arabs to build Grand palace or wealthy mansion. They got that idea from the Roman or Persian civilization. That unholy man after migrating to Yathrib or Medina engaged in more than 78 raids and looting of neighboring arabs as well as jewish tribes. He possessed the Fadak Orchard yard stolen from Bani Nadir that later became the source of internal feud between his followers. He was not as poor as you brainwashed to believe. He had more than 9 wives to maintain and most of them owned and traded slaves.

ps: One thing i learn about Christianity is that, when they're strict, they're too strict and when they are lenient, they are too lenient. excessive in both ways.

So, does that mean your religion is the truth? Others are going to hell? What a joke. This is how you try to comfort yourself of being on the right path for 1400 years. Remove the beam on your eyes before try to see the speck on others cheek. Anyway, I am not even a Christian. I am a freethinker Deist.

[mankind]

Is it?? Tell them to be careful lest some assassin from certain group attempt to assassinate them just for speaking the truth. We all know about the fate of Asma' Bint Marwan and Abu Afak some thousands years ago.

message from Salman Rushdie,Ayaaan Hirsi Ali,Taslima Nasreen:
Come and see the Dutch Govt. They are looking for someone like you to replace Ayaan Hirsi Ali .
as a member of the House of Representatives (the lower house of the Dutch parliament), representing the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD).

[kenmirzz]

message from Salman Rushdie,Ayaaan Hirsi Ali,Taslima Nasreen:
Come and see the Dutch Govt. They are looking for someone like you to replace Ayaan Hirsi Ali .
as a member of the House of Representatives (the lower house of the Dutch parliament), representing the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD).

god bless de hele mensheid. de mensheid is een familie.

[Protoculture]

this country is so backwards lol

Don't think so.

[Protoculture]

Double standard again. Will you exonerate someone who have sex with a 9 year old girl and accumulating more than 11 sexual partners throughout his lifetime? Some of the sexual partners he didn't even marry for example, Mariyya Qibtiyya. As for Safiah, after completely obliterated the male members of her tribes, he had sex with her on the same day. Is that moral thing to do? Don't come and talk moral when your unholy thug committed all these despicable things. Your kind licensed unlimited sex with female captive of wars. That's immoral.

This is NOT A RELIGIOUS DEBATE! There's a specific AF sub Forum for that. Debate there, not here!

[Protoculture]

BTW, the Muslim Malays men has been caned too for imbibing alcohol & committed adultery under Sharia Law.

There's equality for ya!

Besides, caning under Sharia Laws in Malaysia is not harsh at all, more or less like caning in public schools. Furthermore, the caning only involve a light rattan rod with the accused sitting. At most, the caning is less than 6 times at all. It is like caning the errant kids or bullies at most!

One more thing, our Civil / Secular laws against criminals in Malaysia have far more harsher caning! Rapists, robbers & any other high profile crime involved civil caning procedures that are more excruciating which designed to PUNISHED the criminals. The cane is a punishing rod designed to separate skin & flesh & the result is bloody that involved the attendance of medical officers. And its not even Sharia implemented, its inherited from British common law.

Nobody is screaming murder for the civil law caning which is far more brutal & inhumane, but suddenly everybody screaming injustice over a Sharia law caning that is far lighter & more humane.

Double standard prigs!

[kenmirzz]

Besides, caning under Sharia Laws in Malaysia is not harsh at all, more or less like caning in public schools. Furthermore, the caning only involve a light rattan rod with the accused sitting. At most, the caning is less than 6 times at all. It is like caning the errant kids or bullies at most!

Blatant misrepresentation of facts. Please provide sources for the highlighted statement. I am really tired of sugarcoating agenda here. Mr Proto, Taliban, Saudis and Iranian Mullas are unhappy with your candy version of caning.

What's next? Caning with toothbrush?

This post has been edited by kenmirzz: Mar 19 2010, 08:25 PM

[newties21]

My question is.....what happened to the men who committed those actions with the 3 women?

They didnt get any punishment?

I think so, they didnt.

That is unfair.

Only the women were caned, but the men got scott free.