Indo-Aryan Haplogroups in Malay Populations Options

[Iron Malayan]

Here's a summary of my views.

1. Before the arrival of Indo Aryans in SEAsia circa 2000-1000 BCE, there were already highly advanced and good looking Austronesian populations but they were a small minority.The majority of Austronesian tribes in SEAsia were primitive and somewhat ugly. I have earlier acknowledged in other threads that Austronesians invented the outrigger, balance lug sail and the blowgun and I made this thread a while back as tribute to their maritime prowess. Blowguns In The Americas
The injection of high grade Indo Aryan blood into SEAsia further augmented the technological and military prowess of some but not all SEAsian population groups.

2. Indo Aryans who migrated to SEAsia circa 2000-1000 BCE were not traders or Brahmin priests. Their migrations were highly organised operations involving the entire population of their sub-races.Traders and priests only came much later and their genetic contributions are negligible.

3. Like negroids 30,000 years before them, some Indo Aryans took the land route; and some of those who came by sea may have been transported by Austronesian shippers.

4. Low grade Indo Aryan tribes in Central Asia and India never made any migrations to SEAsia.

This post has been edited by Iron Malayan: Dec 6 2004, 11:07 AM

[lapita]

...but the ugly ones who are Muslims will also reproduce here and their genetically undesirable children will be classified as Malays.These aborigine looking citizens will grow up to contaminate Malay gene pool even further. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/madgo.gif)   (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/madgo.gif)   (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/madgo.gif)

oh c'mon Iron Malayan, be generous, the worlds good looking man and women are usually produced by mixture-races parents..who knows??? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif)
and by the way, talking about gene pool, other races has good genes too, for example, congoid and australoid races has gene which protect them from malaria, some people are more resistent to cigarette effect which makes them enjoy smoking without worrying much about the lung cancer...whereas for the IQ..I think we are still unable to extract and define which gene controls our intelligence..still much research to do before arrive at conclusion alinea..by then, it's baseless to triumph one race above the other..
and...good looking is really skin deep isn't it?? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Iron Malayan]

Hello lapita,

So you are from Makassar. Are you a Bugis or ethnic Makassarese ? I learned from books and websites that ethnic Makassarese consist of three castes.Something like this:

1.The nobility
2.The freemen
3.Descendants of slaves.

If you are Makassarese, which caste are you from ? I have never been to Makassar but I love the history of the Makasarese. In the 1st half of the 17th century this tiny Sultanate's navy was so powerful even the VOC didn't dare attack them. Makassarese galleons violated the Dutch spice monopoly right under their noses and the Dutch were not able to do anything but complain. Too bad in the 2nd half of that century the price of pepper and spice plummeted and made it impossible for Makassar to build and maintain a powerful fleet. Even under such unfavourable conditions for Makassar, the VOC still had to team up with Bugis rebels and use 27 of their own ships to defeat that small trading power.

I believe the top two castes are made of people from Indo Aryan stock due to their technological and military prowess. The slave descendant caste must be from Toraja and other primitive non Muslim slaves,am I right? Well correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, I'm glad an excellent ethnic group in the Malay race still maintain their racial purity with the caste structure.

You also said in the Indonesian section that you are studying in Bandung. I'm sure you have seen the extremely beautiful caucasoid looking pure natives Sunda is well known for.I have no doubt those beautiful Sundanese are pure descendants of Indo Aryan settlers just like the Makassarese top two castes. It's too bad the ugly,primitive and cowardly aborigines are the overwhelming majority on the island of Jawa. If it's not because of them, Indonesia would be wealthy and full of beautiful pure Malays. I hope those beautiful Sundanese also preserve their racial purity. The beauty of pure Malays is not only limited to the face but the entire body. The men are medium height, long limbed and athletically build while the women have hourglass shapes.I must say white people and mixed white Indons are not as perfect as pure Malays. There is always some physical flaws I can point out when I see them.

[Nusantara]

I'm sure you have seen the extremely beautiful caucasoid looking pure natives Sunda is well known for.I have no doubt those beautiful Sundanese are pure descendants of Indo Aryan settlers just like the Makassarese top two castes.

You are right regarding sundanese, if we put on the current beauty term such as: light skin, round eye and pointey nose yes a lot sundanese meet this criteria.

I hope those beautiful Sundanese also preserve their racial purity.

Unfortunately the are not doing so. Sundanese female is the famous ethnic female in indonesia easily plunge into night life. I don't want say more if you have chance to visit batam night life than you will understand. I feel very sad to them. perhaps poverty made them so. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bawling.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bawling.gif)
But a lot sumatran much more poor than javanese or sundanese but very rare case the sumatran female working as night girl.

[Iron Malayan]

Unfortunately the are not doing so. Sundanese female is the famous ethnic female in indonesia easily plunge into night life. I don't want say more if you have chance to visit batam night life than you will understand. I feel very sad to them. perhaps poverty made them so. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bawling.gif)   (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bawling.gif)
But a lot sumatran much more poor than javanese or sundanese but very rare case the sumatran female working as night girl.

I think those who end up in vice dens are the not so pure ones. Even if what you say about Batam is true, the vast majority of physically perfect Sundanese are hard working and morally disciplined.Their good looks also make it easier for them to compete for decent jobs.

[Nusantara]

Here's a summary of my views.

1. Before the arrival of Indo Aryans in SEAsia circa 2000-1000 BCE, there were already highly advanced and good looking Austronesian populations but they were a small minority.The majority of Austronesian tribes in SEAsia were primitive and somewhat ugly. I have earlier acknowledged in other threads that Austronesians invented the outrigger, balance lug sail and the blowgun and I made this thread a while back as tribute to their maritime prowess. Blowguns In The Americas
The injection of high grade Indo Aryan blood into SEAsia further augmented the technological and military prowess of some but not all SEAsian population groups.

2. Indo Aryans who migrated to SEAsia circa 2000-1000 BCE were not traders or Brahmin priests. Their migrations were highly organised operations involving the entire population of their sub-races.Traders and priests only came much later and their genetic contributions are negligible.

3. Like negroids 30,000 years before them, some Indo Aryans took the land route; and some of those who came by sea may have been transported by Austronesian shippers.

4. Low grade Indo Aryan tribes in Central Asia and India never made any migrations to SEAsia.

IM, do you have any link to back up this story?

[Iron Malayan]

^^ Which ones exactly ? You'll have to be more specific.

[lapita]

Hello lapita,

So you are from Makassar. Are you a Bugis or ethnic Makassarese ? I learned from books and websites that ethnic Makassarese consist of three castes.Something like this:

1.The nobility
2.The freemen
3.Descendants of slaves.

If you are Makassarese, which caste are you from ? I have never been to Makassar but I love the history of the Makasarese. In the 1st half of the 17th century this tiny Sultanate's navy was so powerful even the VOC didn't dare attack them. Makassarese galleons violated the Dutch spice monopoly right under their noses and the Dutch were not able to do anything but complain. Too bad in the 2nd half of that century the price of pepper and spice plummeted and made it impossible for Makassar to build and maintain a powerful fleet. Even under such unfavourable conditions for Makassar, the VOC still had to team up with Bugis rebels and use 27 of their own ships to defeat that small trading power.

I believe the top two castes are made of people from Indo Aryan stock due to their technological and military prowess. The slave descendant caste must be from Toraja and other primitive non Muslim slaves,am I right? Well correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, I'm glad an excellent ethnic group in the Malay race still maintain their racial purity with the caste structure.

You also said in the Indonesian section that you are studying in Bandung. I'm sure you have seen the extremely beautiful caucasoid looking pure natives Sunda is well known for.I have no doubt those beautiful Sundanese are pure descendants of Indo Aryan settlers just like the Makassarese top two castes. It's too bad the ugly,primitive and cowardly aborigines are the overwhelming majority on the island of Jawa. If it's not because of them, Indonesia would be wealthy and full of beautiful pure Malays. I hope those beautiful Sundanese also preserve their racial purity. The beauty of pure Malays is not only limited to the face but the entire body. The men are medium height, long limbed and athletically build while the women have hourglass shapes.I must say white people and mixed white Indons are not as perfect as pure Malays. There is always some physical flaws I can point out when I see them.

I'm not makassan as well as buginese, not in the pure form I mean (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif) .I'm like 3/4 buginese and 1/4 java. but I can say I'm a bugis girl coz I was raised in bugis culture (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) 2

about the social hierarchy, yes, there was such a grouping, not only in makassar ethnic, but also in three other major ethnic in South sulawesi (mandar, Toraja and bugis). but also, like the other progressive ethnic group around the world we're not using such grouping anymore. I believe human value are respected more than their ancient blood origin nowadays. there's an evolution in social structure in Soth Sulawesi especially with the introduction of Islam religion by the muslim mercant in 17th century. I don't know which caste I am, this topic never arise in any form since I was born, I mean, nobody, before u, ever ask me this kind of question. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) 2

oh yeah, just for information, bugis people, the noble one, once are slaved by the makassan. they are ordered to build the makassar fort. this slavery embarassed bugis people so much, then they made an oath to revenge. this was the actual reason why bugis people allied with VOC againts makassan. torajan troop are known for their capability in playing a guerrilla war. mandar people is known for their capability in making a good boat.

talking about the genetic make up. from the study of alpha thalassemia, Cyp2c19(gene which regulate our capacity in metabolizing drugs)-both are autosomal genes-bugis, makassar and mandar are closely related tahn to torajan. I believe the geographical boundaries has limited the interaction between torajan and three other ethnic group. however, a report on one sub group of makassan people, from selayar island revealed that their genetic make up ( the autosomal as well as the Y-chromosome and mt-DNA) are like 99,99% identic to Australoid (known as Aborigine) people. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) 2 . then... I can conclude that South Sulawesi people have a low ingredient of Indo-Aryan (I must say caucasoid) genes. I've to admit it decrease our outlook feature but fortunately not our intelligence capacity (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) 2 (south sulawesi is the most proggressive province in east Indonesia for centuries..)

sundanese genes are closely related to sumantrans than to javanese. you can see that from their appearence (lighter skin..good looking...etc). sumatran people especially from bukit tinggi, have a big contribution to the birth of our country, I dont' think indo-aryan genes has contribution in this case. this phenomena is more related to the education (more school built in Sumatra than other part of Indonesia at that moment) ..

[Iron Malayan]

Some Bugis may have been forced to build fortresses because they opposed the Islamization of the Bugis-Makassar alliance but they were not slaves. There is a diffference between slavery and forced labour.

oh yeah, just for information, bugis people, the noble one, once are slaved by the makassan. they are ordered to build the makassar fort. this slavery embarassed bugis people so much, then they made an oath to revenge. this was the actual reason why bugis people allied with VOC againts makassan.

...from selayar island revealed that their genetic make up ( the autosomal as well as the Y-chromosome and mt-DNA) are like 99,99% identic to Australoid (known as Aborigine) people.  (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) 2 . then... I can conclude that South Sulawesi people have a low ingredient of Indo-Aryan (I must say caucasoid) genes. I've to admit it decrease our outlook feature but fortunately not our intelligence capacity (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) 2 (south sulawesi is the most proggressive province in east Indonesia for centuries..)

I bet those Selayar Islanders would belong in the lowest Makassar caste if such groupings still exist. I still think Makassarese who belonged to high and middle castes are more Indo Aryan than anything else.

[Nusantara]

^^ Which ones exactly ? You'll have to be more specific.

this one:

2. Indo Aryans who migrated to SEAsia circa 2000-1000 BCE were not traders or Brahmin priests. Their migrations were highly organised operations involving the entire population of their sub-races.Traders and priests only came much later and their genetic contributions are negligible.

As far as i know and up until now official history book in indonesian school teach us during this time 1000 BC is the migration of proto-malay into south east asia (malaysia and Indonesia) from Yunan (southern china). and then followed by dentero malay who are more modern about 500 BC.

And also:

4. Low grade Indo Aryan tribes in Central Asia and India never made any migrations to SEAsia.

Assume this teory right, from where actually this indo aryan coming from who contributed caucasoid gene in malay population if it is not from india or central asia?

[Iron Malayan]

Which Malays -according to that history book- were Austronesians ? The Proto Malays or the Deutero Malays ?

I am one of those who believe that Austronesians migrated from southern China to Taiwan 4000-3000 BCE and from Taiwan they spread into SEAsia.
(IMG:http://www.unc.edu/~nielsen/soci011/hs6/hs6027.gif)

As far as i know and up until now official history book in indonesian school teach us during this time 1000 BC is the migration of proto-malay into south east asia (malaysia and Indonesia) from Yunan (southern china). and then followed by dentero malay who are more modern about 500 BC.

And also:

4. Low grade Indo Aryan tribes in Central Asia and India never made any migrations to SEAsia.

Assume this teory right, from where actually this indo aryan coming from who contributed caucasoid gene in malay population if it is not from india or central asia?

What I mean is: only certain high grade Indo Aryan tribes from India made full scale migrations to SEAsia. The low grade tribes were not bold enough to do so.

[Nusantara]

^I see, it mean the higher percentage of aryan haplogroup among Malay population coming from higher grade indo aryan since they are among the bravest who conquered the sea to travel.

[PrismKnight7]

Are these people retards? About all Caucasians at that time were "high-grade"...compared to the negrito-derived malaysians, who are ultimately pacific negroids mixed with southern mongoloids, not so called "Aryans" aka Central Asian Meditterreneans, who pushed more primitive Caucasian deeper into Southern Indian, and S.E. Asia.

[Nusantara]

^The one that being pushed southward by caucasian in indian is dravidian, the original occupancy of India continent.

If your theory regarding lower grade caucasian is the one who come to SE asian, why in the hell they used brahmi script for their alphabet known as alphabet used by higher caste in India.

Other things affecting what make malay has higher percentage of Caucasian haplogroup also the influx of islam into SE asian were introduced by Persian and Gujarat (indo-aryan) group.

These 2 reasons why there are higher percentage of Aryan haplogroup among Malay.

[Iron Malayan]

WHAT THE FUQ ARE YOU B!TCHIN ABOUT

Are these people retards? About all Caucasians at that time were "high-grade"...compared to the negrito-derived malaysians, who are ultimately pacific negroids mixed with southern mongoloids, not so called "Aryans" aka Central Asian Meditterreneans, who pushed more primitive Caucasian deeper into Southern Indian, and S.E. Asia.

[Fil-Am]

Are these people retards? About all Caucasians at that time were "high-grade"...compared to the negrito-derived malaysians, who are ultimately pacific negroids mixed with southern mongoloids, not so called "Aryans" aka Central Asian Meditterreneans, who pushed more primitive Caucasian deeper into Southern Indian, and S.E. Asia.

negroids? get your facts straight china man. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

This post has been edited by Fil-Am: Dec 14 2004, 11:49 AM

[User1]

negroids? get your facts straight china man. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

Nordicman/PrismKnight7 is a non-Chinese on CNA who goes by the name of Frontier_Relic, who is the info guy the Chinazis depend on for distorted racial info. I've always suspected this guy was non-Chinese, the way he talked. All three talk the same way. And this post by Nordicman just seals it. These links are the exact links in Frontier_Relic's signature on CNA.

Yes, according to mainstream, conservative Islamic theology there is the death penalty for leaving Islam. Many ex-Muslims live in fear for their lives even today. Check out this site:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/

News about Islam:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

So, stop calling him China man. He is not of us but some Stormfront wackp.

This post has been edited by User1: Dec 14 2004, 02:26 PM

[Fil-Am]

negroids? get your facts straight china man. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

Nordicman/PrismKnight7 is a non-Chinese on CNA who goes by the name of Frontier_Relic, who is the info guy the Chinazis depend on for distorted racial info. I've always suspected this guy was non-Chinese, the way he talked. All three talk the same way. And this post by Nordicman just seals it. These links are the exact links in Frontier_Relic's signature on CNA.

Yes, according to mainstream, conservative Islamic theology there is the death penalty for leaving Islam. Many ex-Muslims live in fear for their lives even today. Check out this site:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/

News about Islam:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

So, stop calling him China man. He is not of us but some Stormfront wackp.

I thought chinazis disliked white people? LOL so chinazis get their facts from white racists.

[User1]

I thought chinazis disliked white people? LOL so chinazis get their facts from white racists.

He claims to be Chinese on CNA, but I always thought some of the stuff he says about Chinese were from Nazs text books, because any real Chinese would know differently. Plus, he doesn't talk like a Chinese, not even a Chinazi. He finally made a post as Nordicman on here with the exact same links on Frontier_Relic's signature. I always thought PrismKnight7 sounded like Frontier_Relic. They had the exact same style of writing and the exact same views, but I didn't say anything without proof.
This is the same guy who the Chinazis get their info on Sinids and Dongyi and negritos. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[Fil-Am]

I thought chinazis disliked white people? LOL so chinazis get their facts from white racists.

He claims to be Chinese on CNA, but I always thought some of the stuff he says about Chinese were from Nazs text books, because any real Chinese would know differently. Plus, he doesn't talk like a Chinese, not even a Chinazi. He finally made a post as Nordicman on here with the exact same links on Frontier_Relic's signature. I always thought PrismKnight7 sounded like Frontier_Relic. They had the exact same style of writing and the exact same views, but I didn't say anything without proof.
This is the same guy who the Chinazis get their info on Sinids and Dongyi and negritos. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

LOL extreme chinese nationalist getting information about their own people and other asians from white nationalists. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

This post has been edited by Fil-Am: Dec 14 2004, 02:42 PM