AsiaFinest Forum
Ad: 123Designing.com

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

11 Pages V  « < 4 5 6 7 8 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
YDNA Migration China > Mongolia > Korea > Japan, Yayoi Migration Shang > Yenizei > Amur > Korea > Japan
agnoni
post Aug 12 2010, 11:13 PM
Post #101


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




QUOTE (tianfan @ Aug 12 2010, 10:56 PM) *
if we accept Goguryeo language and Japanese(Yaoi) language are linguistically related, then Goguryeo people are more likely to be O2b carriers (mainly), because that's the only part to be connected to Japanese on DNA evidence.


If Goguryeo people is O2b carrier, how did they carry O2b to Japanese islands?

There are more D4 marker carriers than O2b carriers.

O2b @ YDNA : male lineages @ 14%-33% of south korean population
D4 @ mtDNA : female lineages @ dominant in south korean population


If Goguryeo people is O2b carriers, then Goguryeo people should be colonized or conquered prior to taking back Korean Peninsula from Lelang Commandery.

male lineages @ 67%-86% of south korean population are from Han chinese rule, Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) ?


or

female lineages @ most korean females are remnants of original korean people whose mate carried O2b, but later colonized by Lelang Commandery, then most korean females had to survive by having chinese male partners?


This post has been edited by agnoni: Aug 12 2010, 11:18 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 12 2010, 11:30 PM
Post #102


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




QUOTE (agnoni @ Today, 12:32 PM )
Goguryeo people is not korean....?
So you said O2b carriers are in samhan.
Neither han chinese nor Goguryeo people did not add O2b, but those who fled from Han chinese colonizations were korean?

QUOTE (charlypanda @ Aug 12 2010, 03:34 AM)

No, Goguryeo people were not the member of Gojoseon, but they joined to them as Goguryeo after Goguryeo destroyed Lelang Commandery.


Goguryeo people is not korean....?
So you said O2b carriers are in samhan.
Neither han chinese nor Goguryeo people did not add O2b, but those who fled from Han chinese colonizations were korean?


QUOTE (charlypanda @ Aug 12 2010, 11:04 PM) *
Goguryeo people were not in history when Gojoseon was established. O2b1 is more likely in Gojoseon, sedantary agrarian land than in arid steppe land as Goguryeo was. However, I think O2b/O2b1's homeland was present day Yonbyon Automonous Region of Jilin Province and at the time of Tangun they
were not so much in mainland Korea than C3. O2b1 was gifted in paddy rice farming at waterfront than millet Chinese farmers. They might have joined Jizi Korea from the beginning, but major joining took place at Chundo in 4-3 centuries BC.


You mean that O2b is not korean dna marker? If C3 is really real korean gene, then there are not much original koreans of Dangun's and Gojoseon's time left in present-day korea....

O2b is spread before Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) during 400 years of rule on korea?

Then, O2b carriers fled to southernmost korea from Lelang Commandery?


Question now is that O2b carriers are korean ethnics, who are minority in korea now if including O2b non-existen north korea, while others are either from Lelang Commandery and Goguryeo, who are not korean initially, but added some gene stocks to modern korean people.

And C3 carriers were colonized and assimilated by unknown tribes who brought O2b to Korea?

This post has been edited by agnoni: Aug 12 2010, 11:53 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
charlypanda
post Aug 12 2010, 11:55 PM
Post #103


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 78
Joined: 12-July 10




QUOTE
agnoni Posted Today, 01:30 PM
You mean that O2b is not korean dna marker?
So, O2b is spread by Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) during 400 years of rule on korea?


In the begining, there was no China,nor Korea,nor Japan, but heaven and earth and free thinking good guys and gals like you and I.Han's harddisc formatting like partitioning of Manchuria and Korea was something like patitioning of native Americans' lands into States without consent of the populace, as if by Mandate of Heaven. Such being the case for general conditions, O2b's migration was, as I see, far beyond the control of Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313), but motivated by adaptation to ever changing, worsening, climate change, waterfall, coast lines etc.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 13 2010, 12:06 AM
Post #104


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




QUOTE (charlypanda @ Aug 13 2010, 12:55 AM) *
In the begining, there was no China,nor Korea,nor Japan, but heaven and earth and free thinking good guys and gals like you and I.Han's harddisc formatting like partitioning of Manchuria and Korea was something like patitioning of native Americans' lands into States without consent of the populace, as if by Mandate of Heaven. Such being the case for general conditions, O2b's migration was, as I see, far beyond the control of Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313), but motivated by adaptation to ever changing, worsening, climate change, waterfall, coast lines etc.


What about the female population biases?? Men are minor in O2b YDNA, and women are dominant in D4 mtDNA, isn't that the evidences of O2b groups colonized by other groups for a very long time like 400 years?

and

How about modern-day koreans in connection with O2b tribes? If Goguryeo people were not O2b carriers, then who are really koreans? Is mainstream korean ethnics largely same people as northern han chinese, and Manchurians?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
natsuman
post Aug 13 2010, 12:11 AM
Post #105


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 85
Joined: 6-August 10
From: Taiwan




Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Jomon skeletons from the Funadomari site, Hokkaido, and its implication for the origins of Native American

Noboru Adachi et al.

Ancient DNA recovered from 16 Jomon skeletons excavated from Funadomari site, Hokkaido, Japan was analyzed to elucidate the genealogy of the early settlers of the Japanese archipelago. Both the control and coding regions of their mitochondrial DNA were analyzed in detail, and we could securely assign 14 mtDNAs to relevant haplogroups. Haplogroups D1a, M7a, and N9b were observed in these individuals, and N9b was by far the most predominant. The fact that haplogroups N9b and M7a were observed in Hokkaido Jomons bore out the hypothesis that these haplogroups are the (pre-) Jomon contribution to the modern Japanese mtDNA pool. Moreover, the fact that Hokkaido Jomons shared haplogroup D1 with Native Americans validates the hypothesized genetic affinity of the Jomon people to Native Americans, providing direct evidence for the genetic relationships between these populations. However, probably due to the small sample size or close consanguinity among the members of the site, the frequencies of the haplogroups in Funadomari skeletons were quite different from any modern populations, including Hokkaido Ainu, who have been regarded as the direct descendant of the Hokkaido Jomon people. It appears that the genetic study of ancient populations in northern part of Japan brings important information to the understanding of human migration in northeast Asia and America.


The whole paper: http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/jdaXNe
Dienekes: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/10/ancie...-skeletons.html



This post has been edited by natsuman: Aug 13 2010, 12:15 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 13 2010, 12:19 AM
Post #106


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




QUOTE (natsuman @ Aug 13 2010, 01:11 AM) *
Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Jomon skeletons from the Funadomari site, Hokkaido, and its implication for the origins of Native American

Noboru Adachi et al.

Ancient DNA recovered from 16 Jomon skeletons excavated from Funadomari site, Hokkaido, Japan was analyzed to elucidate the genealogy of the early settlers of the Japanese archipelago. Both the control and coding regions of their mitochondrial DNA were analyzed in detail, and we could securely assign 14 mtDNAs to relevant haplogroups. Haplogroups D1a, M7a, and N9b were observed in these individuals, and N9b was by far the most predominant. The fact that haplogroups N9b and M7a were observed in Hokkaido Jomons bore out the hypothesis that these haplogroups are the (pre-) Jomon contribution to the modern Japanese mtDNA pool. Moreover, the fact that Hokkaido Jomons shared haplogroup D1 with Native Americans validates the hypothesized genetic affinity of the Jomon people to Native Americans, providing direct evidence for the genetic relationships between these populations. However, probably due to the small sample size or close consanguinity among the members of the site, the frequencies of the haplogroups in Funadomari skeletons were quite different from any modern populations, including Hokkaido Ainu, who have been regarded as the direct descendant of the Hokkaido Jomon people. It appears that the genetic study of ancient populations in northern part of Japan brings important information to the understanding of human migration in northeast Asia and America.


The whole paper: http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/jdaXNe
Dienekes: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/10/ancie...-skeletons.html


Interesting. So D4 is not O2b equivalent mtDNA, but jomon's markers. This does make sense, so korean women are dominantly Japanese, while korean men are dominantly Chinese?
*wrong.. I misunderstood. D4 is northern DNA from Amur river regioin, not Jomon.

It is contradictory though, jomon was born in South East asia, that's what I heard?? But D4 was originated out of Central Asia. Doesn't make sense.

This post has been edited by agnoni: Aug 13 2010, 12:40 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
natsuman
post Aug 13 2010, 12:21 AM
Post #107


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 85
Joined: 6-August 10
From: Taiwan




Mitochondrial DNA haplogrouping of the Okhotsk people based on analysis of ancient DNA:
an intermediate of gene flow from the continental Sakhalin people to the Ainu

Takehiro Sato et al.

In order to further understand the genetic status of the Okhotsk people, who were distributed
in southern coastal regions of the Okhotsk Sea during the 5th–13th centuries, nucleotide variations
in the hypervariable region (HVR) and the coding regions of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) were analyzed.
Targeting the coding regions provides reliable genetic information even from ancient DNAs
that may have suffered post-mortem damage. MtDNA haplogroups of 38 individuals were classified
according to mtDNA lineages known in northeastern Asian people. Comparisons of mtDNA haplogroup
frequencies between the Okhotsk people and other Asian populations revealed that the genetic
structures of the Okhotsk people are very similar to those of populations currently living around lower
regions of the Amur River and the Ainu of Hokkaido. The results support our previous study on molecular
phylogeny of mtDNA HVR 1 sequences, and strongly suggest that the Okhotsk people originated
around the lower regions of the Amur River and became an intermediate of gene flow from the
continental Sakhalin people to the Ainu.

The whole paper: http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ase/117/3/171/_pdf


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
charlypanda
post Aug 13 2010, 12:25 AM
Post #108


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 78
Joined: 12-July 10




QUOTE
agnoni Posted Today, 02:06 PM
What about the female population biases?? Men are minor in O2b YDNA, and women are dominant in D4 mtDNA, isn't that the evidences of O2b groups colonized by other groups for a very long time like 400 years?
and
How about modern-day koreans in connection with O2b tribes? If Goguryeo people were not O2b carriers, then who are really koreans? Is mainstream korean ethnics largely same people as northern han chinese, and Manchurians?

What woman marries with what men is beyond the reach of poor brains. As a Japanese I have few knowledge about Korean O2b. Korean ethnicity is like Jinro, it should have something stable in composition. Let's take a glass of cooled Jinro before thinking anything about this.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 13 2010, 12:25 AM
Post #109


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




QUOTE (natsuman @ Aug 13 2010, 01:21 AM) *


Ok, D4 is Northern mtDNA... That means korean women are closer to people who lives near Amur river, and korean men are closer to chinese, but some minority O2b carriers still survived till this day..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
natsuman
post Aug 13 2010, 12:28 AM
Post #110


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 85
Joined: 6-August 10
From: Taiwan




QUOTE (agnoni @ Aug 13 2010, 01:19 PM) *
Interesting. So D4 is not O2b equivalent mtDNA, but jomon's markers. This does make sense, so korean women are dominantly Japanese, while korean men are dominantly Chinese?

It is contradictory though, jomon was born in South East asia, that's what I heard?? But D4 was originated out of Central Asia. Doesn't make sense.

I believe some D4 were Jomon lineages which came to Japan earlier, and some D4 were Yayoi or later migrants. Actually most East Asian Y-DNA/mtDNA haplogroups came from Southeast Asia and China, not Central Asia, and the ancestors of Jomon may have come to Northeast Asia for a long period of time.

This post has been edited by natsuman: Aug 13 2010, 12:31 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 13 2010, 12:32 AM
Post #111


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




There are more D4 marker carriers than O2b carriers.

O2b @ YDNA : male lineages @ 14%-33% of south korean population from Jilin Province not present in Goguryeo
D4 @ mtDNA : female lineages @ dominant in south korean population from Amur river who joined ainu both jomon/ainu in hokkaido, but common in Central Asia


female lineages @ most korean females are remnants of original korean people whose mate carried O2b, but later colonized by Lelang Commandery, then most korean females had to survive by having chinese male partners?


or

Some unknown natural disasters displaced O2b carriers from Jilin to Korea, an then to Japan, and for some unknown reasons, females were allowed to stay in korea.


Correction: my previous summary correct by feedbacks.

This post has been edited by agnoni: Aug 13 2010, 12:42 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 13 2010, 12:34 AM
Post #112


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




QUOTE (natsuman @ Aug 13 2010, 01:28 AM) *
I believe some D4 were Jomon lineages which came to Japan earlier, and some D4 were Yayoi or later migrants. Actually most East Asian Y-DNA/mtDNA haplogroups came from Southeast Asia and China, not Central Asia, and the ancestors of Jomon may have come to Northeast Asia for a long period of time.


You are confused with D in YDNA, which is known to be jomon. but I talk of D in mtDNA, which is in different origin.

QUOTE
Origin
Haplogroup D is believed to have arisen in Asia some 48,000 years before present.[2] It is a descendant haplogroup of haplogroup M.
Haplogroup D is also found quite frequently in Central Asia[3], where it makes up the second most common mtDNA clade (after H). Haplogroup D also appears at a low frequency in northeastern Europe and southwestern Asia.
D4 is also frequent to Koreans according to latest study.[4]


This post has been edited by agnoni: Aug 13 2010, 12:35 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
natsuman
post Aug 13 2010, 12:37 AM
Post #113


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 85
Joined: 6-August 10
From: Taiwan




QUOTE (agnoni @ Aug 13 2010, 01:34 PM) *
You are confused with D in YDNA, which is known to be jomon. but I talk of D in mtDNA, which is in different origin.

I do know what you mean, Y-DNA D2-M55 is Jomon lineage. And mtDNA D1 and D4 is also found in Jomon remains.

mtDNA haplogroup D originated in East Asia, not Central Asia. mtDNA haplogroup D in Central Asia were migrants from East Asia.



This post has been edited by natsuman: Aug 13 2010, 12:40 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 13 2010, 12:46 AM
Post #114


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




natsuman, so D mtDNA is common with Northeast Chinese, Sibelian, Korean, and Japanese.
That means,

jomon and korean females were all from china?



Correction again:


There are more D4 marker carriers than O2b carriers.


C3 @ YDNA : male lineages @ 11% of south korean males, original Gojoseon people, who were colonized by O2b
O2b @ YDNA : male lineages @ 14%-33% of south korean males from Jilin Province not present in Goguryeo nor in Gojoseon
D4 @ mtDNA : female lineages @ dominant in south korean females from Amur river, or from Northeast China


In the beginning, there were C3 carriers, who were original Gojoseon people of Korea. Later, it is destroyed by Han China, and colonized. Goguryeo, O2b carriers, then destroyed Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) and free people from Han chinese colonization of Gojoseon, then they mated with Gojoseon females, with D1 and D4 mtDNAs, then formed the country and people of Korea


from natsuman

or

female lineages @ most korean females were from China, but later colonized by Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) of 400 years han chinese rules, then most korean females had to survive by having chinese male partners?


or

Some unknown natural disasters displaced O2b carriers from Jilin to Korea, and then to Japan, and for some unknown reasons, females were allowed to stay in korea? But most men are displaced into the southermost parts of Korea


from charlypanda

or

Koreans were mostly from china. But there was a invader from unknown tribals of O2b in China, and colonized the residents, formed Gojoseon. But later, Lelang Commandery colonized 3/4 of korea, and displaced O2b to the southernmost Korea. Goguryeo people, who were mostly northeast chinese, destroyed commandery, and established what is known as korea.


This post has been edited by agnoni: Aug 13 2010, 01:35 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
natsuman
post Aug 13 2010, 01:01 AM
Post #115


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 85
Joined: 6-August 10
From: Taiwan




QUOTE (agnoni @ Aug 13 2010, 01:46 PM) *
natsuman, so D mtDNA is common with Northeast Chinese, Sibelian, Korean, and Japanese.
That means,

jomon and korean females were all from china?

Well, there was no China back in the Paleolithic and Neolithic, so I would say they came from ancient East Asia.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 13 2010, 01:08 AM
Post #116


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




QUOTE (natsuman @ Aug 13 2010, 01:01 AM) *
Well, there was no China back in the Paleolithic and Neolithic, so I would say they came from ancient East Asia.


East asia is too broad. For conveniences, I called it China, so I can make sure what I really mean.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 13 2010, 01:26 AM
Post #117


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10





QUOTE
Haplogroup C3
Time of origin 11,900 ± 4,800 years before present[1]

Highest frequencies Oroqen 61%[2]-91%[3], Evens 5%[4]-74%[5], Evenks 44%[3]-71%[1][4], Buryats 7%[6]-84%[7], Mongolians 52%[3]-54%[2], Tanana 42%[8], Kazakhs 40%[3], Hazaras 40%[9], Nivkhs 38%[7], Koryaks 33%[1][4], Daur 31%[2], Yukaghir 31%[10], Sibe 27%[2], Manchu 26%[2]-27%[3], Altai 22%[5]-24%[3], Hezhe 22%[2], Uzbeks 20%[3], Tujia 18%[3], Hani 18%[2], Cheyenne 16%[8], Apache 15%[8], Tuvans 15%[10], Ainu 12.5%[7]-25%[5], Koreans 11%[3]-16%[2], Hui 11%[3][2], Sioux 11%[8], Han Chinese 0%-22.5%[11]


How about C3? Is C3 Gojoseon YDNA?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
natsuman
post Aug 13 2010, 01:47 AM
Post #118


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 85
Joined: 6-August 10
From: Taiwan




QUOTE (agnoni @ Aug 13 2010, 02:26 PM) *
How about C3? Is C3 Gojoseon YDNA?

From a new study (2010) on Y-DNA haplogroup C3-M217:

Global distribution of Y-chromosome haplogroup C reveals the prehistoric migration routes of African exodus and early settlement in East Asia

http://konglong.5d6d.com/viewthread.php?ti...age=1#pid159980

From the paper above:

"Interestingly, besides Hg C1, Japanese also have C3-M217-derived individuals who have a close relationship with the Han Chinese (Figures 3a and b), rather than with the Altaic-speaking populations. Therefore, the two distinctive sets of Hg C lineages in Japan support the hypothesized two independent migration waves to Japan, that is, the Paleolithic migration and the Neolithic migration likely due to the demic diffusion of the Han culture."



This post has been edited by natsuman: Aug 13 2010, 01:51 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
natsuman
post Aug 13 2010, 02:09 AM
Post #119


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 85
Joined: 6-August 10
From: Taiwan




According to this genome-wide structure study, we see Japanese are between East Asians and North Asians, and closer to East Asians.

http://konglong.5d6d.com/viewthread.php?ti...age=1#pid182119





This post has been edited by natsuman: Aug 13 2010, 02:31 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
agnoni
post Aug 13 2010, 03:55 AM
Post #120


AF Fan
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 8-May 10




QUOTE (natsuman @ Aug 13 2010, 03:09 AM) *
According to this genome-wide structure study, we see Japanese are between East Asians and North Asians, and closer to East Asians.



I knew it . The whole altaic theory is wrong. Many chinese people traveled to Japan directly through the sea, or through peninsula. Genetically, Japanese and Chinese are not any different. So are korean...

Is Goguryeo people korean? Are most female koreans chinese ethnics? It looks Gojoseon people was mostly colonized by later chinese immigrants, and Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313). So who are korean people, and who are japanese people?

This post has been edited by agnoni: Aug 13 2010, 04:03 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

11 Pages V  « < 4 5 6 7 8 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd October 2014 - 03:37 PM