YDNA Migration China > Mongolia > Korea > Japan, Yayoi Migration Shang > Yenizei > Amur > Korea > Japan Options

[agnoni]

BoA

There are some newly proposed hypotheses from charlypanda.

• Ancient mogols were korean, O2b* and O2b1.
• Yamato Clan was Koreans.
• Japanese emperor is/was korean.
• Dongyi were Koreans.

Additionally, to support the origin of O2b* and O2b1 in Bryat Mongolia, we need to give a new constraint

• Koreans cannot be south east asian ancestry.
• Manchurian women were not attracted to Manchurian men (O2b* and O2b1), effecting the demise of O2b1 in Manchuria, and very low frequency of O2b* in Manchuria.
• Ancient koreans dominated a whole of china, and even colonized vietnam, contributing some O2 gene pools to south east asia.
• Mainstream geneticists hypothesis was all wrong. O2b1 YDNA was born in korea or in Mongolia, not in Japanese archipelago.

Scenario: Gojoseon men are O2b* carriers (Charlypanda)

Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) swept out Gojoseon men (O2b* @ YDNA), and mated with Gojoseon women (D4 @ mtDNA)? Gojoseon demography transformed from O2b* into O3. Goguryeo people (C3) came and took out the land from both Gojoseon and Lelang Commandery. Gojoseon men, subjugated and enslaved by Goguryeo, fled to Japan to become the 8% of present day Japanese, colonized Japan, and finally mixed with and assimilated into the primitive people of japan (D @ YDNA)..?

Scenario: Goguryeo men are O2b* carriers (Charlypanda)

Gojoseon men (C3 @ YDNA) were colonized by Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) for 400 years. Goguryeo men (O2b* @YDNA), originally from Jilin province of China, came and took control of Lelang Commandery (O3 @ YDNA) and progressed to subjugate/enslave C3 carriers, Mahan, Jinhan, Byeonhan men (C3 @ YDNA)? Later Goguryeo mixed with the han chinese (O3 @ YDNA) to form korean ethnic group (O2b* and O3). Enslaved and suppressed by Goguryeo, Baekje, crossed the sea, and become the 8% of present day Japanese, colonized Japan, and finally mixed and assimilated into the primitive jomon people (D @ YDNA)?

Scenario: Goguryeo men and Gojoseon men are O2b* carriers, i.e., Goguryeo is a descendant of Gojoseon (Charlypanda)

At the founding of Goguryeo (BC37-668), Goguryeo people were already colonized by Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313). Many Gojoseon women were mated with Han chinese men to survive the hardship of colonial rule. Majority of Goguryeo women were married with Han chinese men (O3), and original Goguryeo men (O2b*) decreased to the 20% of all Goguryeo men. With the declining influence from china, Goguryeo men (44.5% O3 + 17.2% O2b*) rioted against china, and destroyed Lelang Commandery?

Baekje men, or Gojoseon men (44.5% O3 + 17.2% O2b*) crossed the sea, and colonized japan, and become 8% of Japanese men of korean genes (O2b*), and 20% of Japanese men of chinese genes(O3)?

C3, 8.8% of south Korean genes, were neither from Goguryeo or nor Gojoseon. Mongol invasions (AD1231-1270) added the C3 YDNA to modern South Koreans.

Scenario: 40% of Japanese are sinitic, not altaic. O2b1 is borne in southern china.

O2b1 was initially borne in china. During Ice age, ancient chinese, O2b1 and O3 carriers crossed the ice bridge to japanese islands, and bring the high civilization and technology to japan, and then mixed with the primitive jomons, to become the 20% of present-day japanese. Chinese further colonized the Korean peninsulas to add O3 gene stocks to Gojoseon and Goguryeo people. Baekje people, already sinisized by han chinese colonizations were 8% O2b* and 44.5% O3, then Baekje crossed the sea, and colonized japan to become the 8% of present-day japanese (uniquely korean).

Scenario: 28% of Japanese are non-sinitic, altaic. O2b1 was borne in Jilin Province of China. (Not-mainstream. proposed by korean posters, Charlypanda)

In ancient china, O2b1 people were borne in Jilin province of china. O2b1 people dominated Korean peninsula, to enslave the oldcomer, O2b* carriers (uniquely koreans). But successive migrations from China to Manchuria exterminated all O2b1 carriers in Manchuria, and then in Korean Peninsula, O3 people freed O2b* (uniquely korean gene) carriers from O2b1 group. O3 killed almoost all O2b1 men, and only 8% (4% to 12%) of modern day korean remained as O2b1 till this day, and the enslaved O2b* were assimilated into newly coming O3 group. Them O3 people progressed to invade japan, and successfully colonized japan to become 20% of present-day japanese (most common in chinese), and the remaining O2b1 fled to japan to escape slavery of O3 carriers to become 20% of present-day japanese (O2b1, uniquely japanese).

Scenario (Charlypanda): (ancient Koreans had two separate unmixed, tribes of each being purely O2b1 or O2b*.)

There was no country called Gojoseon, as it had no written records but Gojoseon, or Chaoxian Tribes, were actually two separate tribes, O2b* Gaoyi, O2b1 Liangyi. Two tribes did not mix, thus one of them reproduced more and another reproduced less. Before the Lelang Commandery's enslavement of ancient Koreans, those tribes were each 17.2% (O2b*) and 8% O2b1 or 2:1 ratio in Korea. When Han chinese, O3, came down, and colonized the Korean peninsula, Han chinese men, numerically superior, soon overtook the whole of korean peninsula, thus dramatic demographic transformation from O2b* and O2b1 into O3. For this change of 100% O2b groups to O3, one must think that almost all korean women in the chinese present areas mated, or married with han chinese men, to effect the decrease of male lineages of korean men in korean peninsula from 100% O2b to 25% O2b.

For some unknown reasons, koreans who fled to japan islands to escape slavery, were changing demography, thus, mysteriously ratio transformed from 2:1 to 1:3 (O2b*:O2b1), and became 28% of present-day japanese. However the rest of Gojoseon men were enslaved, and had less opportunity to reproduce, thus there are only 17% O2b*, and 8% O2b1 left in peninsula. The rest of 75% of korean population are either chinese or mongols who invaded korea possibly by Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313).

There were no historical records of korean inflow to okinawa, but for some reasons, there are O2b1 in Okinawa, which must come from Korean peninsula to make sense. Perhaps, ancient koreans invented large ships, and travelled to Okinawa of Japan, much further away from Japanese mainislands?

Scenario: (O2b1 carriers were first borne 7,870 years ago, O2b1 carriers crossed the sea to japan to become the 20% of present day japanese )

Since 6000BC, there were wide distributions of O2b1 in Manchuria, Korean peninsula, and Japanese archipelago. At 2000BC, japanese had already had O2b1 jomon people in western Japan, and O2b1 successfully colonized ancient japan. However on the continent, O2b* and O2b1 dominance did not continue long. When Lelang commandery colonized and enslaved korean peninsula. Korean women had to mate with Chinese men (O3) rather than O2b* or O2b1. Chinese men had more chances to reproduce with korean women, and thus, massive transformations from a nation of purely (100%) O2b* and O2b1 ethnics to the nation of more than 70% of men to be han chinese origin. Korean men who tried to escape the enslavement became and contributed to the 8% of present day japanese of uniquely korean origin.

O2b1 was probably from chinese mainlands (Yangtze) or taiwan, geographically close to okinawa, or O2b1 was borne in japan, as mainstream geneticists claimed?

Scenario (Charlypanda): Ancient Mogols were koreans. There was korean civilization in Lake Baikal before the arrival of mongols. Koreans, O2b and O2b*, cannot be south east asian.

In unknown periods or long time ago, there were original O2b* carriers born in Lake Baikal, Beiyi. Beiyi went down and colonized the Manchuria. Supposedly, there was a highland in Manchuria, where many koreans recided. For some unknown reasons, ancient koreans were all expelled or disappeared from Mongolia, demise of O2b* and O2b1 in Mongolia.

However, koreans dominated ancient china, and even extended to south east asia, colonized vietnam, and brought down rice culture to vietnam. Koreans, O2b, contributed a few percents of korean genes to vietnamese primitives.

In Manchuria, Han chinese commandery ruled parts of Manchuria. Surprisingly, even though han chinese dynasty did not rule a whole of Manchuria, Han chinese succeeded in exterminating all O2b1 carriers, and then most of O2b* carriers. Perhaps, han chinese men (O3 YDNA) were attractive, and manchuria women just ditched korean men (O2b1, O2b*) without any economic or political necessities.

In korea, Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313) invaded the Gojoseon, and destroyed Gojoseon. Gojoseon women mostly reproduced with han chinese men (O3 carriers), and the percentage of O2b* dramatically decreased to 17.2 percents. Slavery continued for 400 years, which transformed korean into mostly sinitic gene stocks.

Scenario (Charlypanda): Founder of Yamato Clan is Koreans, Dongyi. Not Buryat. Go-joseon, and Goguryeo people are not sinitic, and carried O2b* to Japan.

In ancient time, Orignal koreans, O2b* and O2b1 carriers, emerged out of nowhere or, in Lake Baikal. These original koreans settled/colonized Manchuria, and then colonized Korean peninsula. Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313), or other han chinese commandery came to the part of Manchuria, and almost all manchurian women married or reproduced with han chinese men, thus very low O2b* genes were left in Manchuria, and O2b1 was erased from all Manchurian gene stocks. One wonders why manchurian were exterminated even though some of them were not ruled by han chinese dynasties, probably advanced chinese were attractive to Manchurian women, thus Manchurian men of O2b* and O2b1, could not find the partners.

However, koreans dominated ancient china, and even extended to south east asia, colonized vietnam, and brought down rice culture to vietnam. Koreans, O2b, contributed a few percents of korean genes to vietnamese primitives.

In Korean peninsula, there were 400 years of slavery of koreans by han chinese, effecting the decrease of 75 percents of korean men of O2b* and O2b1 carriers, and emergence of chinese genes (O3) in korea, began to dominate in korea. Enslaved people included Goguryeo people, and those Goguryeo men, who were mostly chinese gene stocks, went down and captured the territory of weakened han chinese dynasty. In these time, O2b1 were almost accidentally erased from the gene stocks of korean.

In 100-200 AD, subjugated Gojoseon people fled to Japan, who were the descendants of the ancient koreans, who ruled Mongolia, for some unknown periods, or very very long time before the Mongolian came to Mongolia, they became Yamato clan of japan. Therefore, Emperor of japan must be koreans who enslaved primitive jomon people of japan. Currently, O2b* and O2b1 carriers were left with 28 percents of present day japanese.

For some unknown reasons, koreans (O2b* and O2b1) who fled to japan islands to escape slavery, were changing demography, thus, mysteriously ratio transformed from 2:1 to 1:3 (O2b*:O2b1), and became 28% of present-day japanese. However the rest of Gojoseon men were enslaved, and had less opportunity to reproduce, thus there are only 17 percents O2b*, and 8 percents O2b1 left in peninsula. The rest of 75 percents of korean population are either chinese or mongols who invaded korea possibly by Lelang Commandery (BC108-AD313).

There were no historical records of korean inflow to okinawa, but for some reasons, there are O2b1 in Okinawa, which must come from Korean peninsula to make sense. Perhaps, ancient koreans ventured to flee to Okinawa.

This post has been edited by agnoni: Aug 20 2010, 03:10 AM

[natsuman]

Lot of thanks for invaluable information. Now I see the conclusion of Japanese mtDNA analysis I referred to earliear is messed up with D, a sort of anachonism in historical sense. And your information on Buryats close relation with C3-M217 and N1c-Tat helps me greatly because Japanese myth is totally based on Buryat theology and Japanese Tumulus Burial is 100% of Buryat origin. Now I start looking for a new plot for formation of Japan. Many thanks once more.

You're welcome. I'd like to share more information, because I'm also interested in the origins of Japanese people.

[natsuman]

BoA

There are some newly proposed hypotheses from charlypanda.

• Ancient mogols were korean, O2b* and O2b1.
• Yamato Clan was Koreans.
• Japanese emperor is/was korean.
• Dongyi were Koreans.

Additionally, to support the origin of O2b* and O2b1 in Bryat Mongolia, we need to give a new constraint

• Koreans cannot be south east asian ancestry.
• Manchurian women were not attracted to Manchurian men (O2b* and O2b1), effecting the demise of O2b1 in Manchuria, and very low frequency of O2b* in Manchuria.
• Ancient koreans dominated a whole of china, and even colonized vietnam, contributing some O2 gene pools to south east asia.
• Mainstream geneticists hypothesis was all wrong. O2b1 YDNA was born in korea or in Mongolia, not in Japanese archipelago.

We don't see O2b* nor O2b1 among Buryats and Mongolians. Instead, Buryats and Mongolians have a lot of C3-M217.

[charlypanda]

agnoni Posted Yesterday, 03:50 PM
There are some newly proposed hypotheses from charlypanda.

•Ancient mogols were korean, O2b* and O2b1.
•Yamato Clan was Koreans.
•Japanese emperor is/was korean.
•Dongyi were Koreans.

Be careful!

•Ancient mogols were korean, O2b* and O2b1.　→　A part of ancient Mongolians became a part of ancient Koreans.
•Yamato Clan was Koreans.　→ State organizing concept of Yamato, Goguryeo, Baekje has something in common.
•Japanese emperor is/was korean.　→ LOL Wei's Chronicle says that Wo people once erected a man for king but all people didn't agree and then erected a queen. By the way, Korea is something that arouse a millenium later thereafter.
•Dongyi were Koreans.　→ Majority of Koreans are Dongyi.

[charlypanda]

"Palace Type burials" is the prototype for Japanese Tumulus Burial aka Kofun
"Glazkov culture had clearly expressed variations, bringing about a number of hypotheses about ethno-cultural situation in the Baikal area, all of them concurring that all population groups are of the animal husbandry type. These cultures are Daur, Slab Grave Culture, and Palace Type burials, seen by some researchers as the earliest predecessor of the Slab Grave Culture"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glazkov_culture

natsuman Posted Yesterday, 01:51 PM
But actually we don't see O2b*/O2b1 among Buryats. The majority of Buryat Y-DNA is C3-M217 and N1c-Tat.

O2b(1) is limited to Japan/Okinawa, Korea and Manchuria
-------------------------------------------------------
Haplogroup O2b
Time of origin 6,300 [95% CI 600-37,000] years ago[1]
Place of origin
Ancestor O2
Defining mutations M176/SRY465, P49, 022454
Highest frequencies
Japanese 32%[2] (26%[3][4]-36%[1]),
Koreans 30%[5] (19%[3][6]-40%[1]),
Okinawans 23%[7] (22%[8]-23%[9]),
Manchus 19%[10] (4%[11]-34%[1])
--------------------------------------------------------
Haplogroup O2b1
Time of origin 7,870 [95% CI 5,720-12,630] years ago[8]
Place of origin perhaps the Japanese archipelago[8]
Ancestor O2b
Defining mutations 47z
Highest frequencies
Japanese 24%[12] (19%[3]-25%[8][9]),
Okinawans 17%[13] (11%[8]-20%[9]),
Koreans 8%[14] (4%[8][11]-12%[15]),
Manchus 7%[16] (0%[11][8][15]-19%[4])
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_O2b_(Y-DNA)
My conclusion:

Upper Amur Slab Grave Culture influenced Songneng Baijingbao Culture which in return
influenced Jilin Xituansha Culture where O2b(1) was dominant.
Xituanshan Culture at the stage of Tuanjie Culture moved southward including Slab Grave component C3 and North-Altai component N1c and arrived at Kyushu, then by force relocated to Toumaguo (Izumo - Shiane pref) whereas majority of O2b(1) converted themselves into mariners (Munakata mariners).

This post has been edited by charlypanda: Aug 20 2010, 06:56 PM

[agnoni]

Be careful!

•Ancient mogols were korean, O2b* and O2b1.　→　A part of ancient Mongolians became a part of ancient Koreans.•Yamato Clan was Koreans.　→ State organizing concept of Yamato, Goguryeo, Baekje has something in common.
•Japanese emperor is/was korean.　→ LOL Wei's Chronicle says that Wo people once erected a man for king but all people didn't agree and then erected a queen. By the way, Korea is something that arouse a millenium later thereafter.
•Dongyi were Koreans.　→ Majority of Koreans are Dongyi.

"Dongyi" was a term used to collectively refer to people living in eastern China. The term "dongyi" is literally translated as "eastern barbarians" and people referred to as "Dongyi" varied through the ages.

This is korean supremacist propaganda..the Dong Yi and Xia/Shang are the true ancestors of 華人/漢人 even chinese in Hong Kong and Singapore agree on this. furthermore, denying the superiority of these two ancient groups over others is revisionism.

Koreans do not look like mongol, because mongol have higher nose/cheek, and their face is not so flat. Mongols do not possess O2 genes, and Malays/Indonesian do have O2. this is a proof that O2 was probably from southern china.

This post has been edited by agnoni: Aug 21 2010, 10:37 AM

[KraterosHellas]

"Dongyi" was a term used to collectively refer to people living in eastern China. The term "dongyi" is literally translated as "eastern barbarians" and people referred to as "Dongyi" varied through the ages.

This is korean supremacist propaganda..the Dong Yi and Xia/Shang are the true ancestors of 華人/漢人 even chinese in Hong Kong and Singapore agree on this. furthermore, denying the superiority of these two ancient groups over others is revisionism.

Koreans do not look like mongol, because mongol have higher nose/cheek, and their face is not so flat. Mongols do not possess O2 genes, and Malays/Indonesian do have O2. this is a proof that O2 was probably from southern china.

dong yi means "eastern barbarians." are u saying chinese are descendants of barbarians?

[cornbiscuit]

Koreans do not look like mongol, because mongol have higher nose/cheek, and their face is not so flat. Mongols do not possess O2 genes, and Malays/Indonesian do have O2. this is a proof that O2 was probably from southern china.

ok then, if you are so sure, can you point out who is korean and who is mongolian since you can tell just by looking at the face?







tell me which pictures are mongolian people, and which pictures are koreans.

[cornbiscuit]

tell me which pictures are mongolian people, and which pictures are koreans.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wYoVRzcbZIk/SSzU...r%201%20006.jpg

This post has been edited by cornbiscuit: Aug 24 2010, 09:39 PM

[tianfan]

Be careful!

•Ancient mogols were korean, O2b* and O2b1.　→　A part of ancient Mongolians became a part of ancient Koreans.
•Yamato Clan was Koreans.　→ State organizing concept of Yamato, Goguryeo, Baekje has something in common.
•Japanese emperor is/was korean.　→ LOL Wei's Chronicle says that Wo people once erected a man for king but all people didn't agree and then erected a queen. By the way, Korea is something that arouse a millenium later thereafter.
•Dongyi were Koreans.　→ Majority of Koreans are Dongyi.

In fact, the name of "Dongyi(East Yi)" is very controversy in Chinese history, the people it was referred was changing over time as the chinese frontier expanding.
At first, during zhou dynasty(1100BC-770BC), the Zhou Chinese used Dongyi to refer the people inhabited in Shandong, Jiangsu province in east coast region of China. Later as the original Dongyi people was gradually sinicized, chinese began to use it to refer to the Korean and Japanese further east.

[islandBrother]

japanese ydna is from sunda land, south east asia.
japanese emperors ydna is from south east asia or sunda land.

source = http://www.cjapan.net/en/content/imperial-...jomonainu-japan


another source.

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=288746

This post has been edited by islandBrother: Sep 10 2011, 07:38 PM

[islandBrother]

O2b1 from sundaland