The Suppression of Cantonese Becomes Vigorous Options

[GunNRoses]

It is like a landslide.
Who knows they won't take over Cantonese channels one by one until there is no Cantonese channel?
Don't tell me that the answer is TVB. In recent years, 50% of HK newborn is from China.

huh? TVB changing into mandarin broadcasting channel?
its not even possible. hong kong is different from guogzhou since most of the hong kong people can hardly speak any mandarin, we are only able to guess about what they say. btu as for guogndong, its their certain school subject and its been practiced for decades.
most of mainland cantonese can speak decent mandarin therefore the north immigants in gongzhou dotn even need to bother to learn the local dialect in order to communcate with the mainland cantonese, but in hong kong its different, they have to leanr cantonese to communicate with us since our mandarin are very limited.
plus, TVB already have the seperated channels broadcasting in cantonese, mandarin ( tvb8 or something ) and english ( pearl )

anyway, the main threat to the cantonese language in gongzhou is the immigrants from the north
for example. a cantonese+mandarin couple, they will defintedly be communicting in mandarin rather than cantonese, since only one of them can speak cantonese but meanwhile both can speak mandarin and their future offspring would most likely be taught in speaking mandarin as well considering mandarin is much more important for their future career and plus that is the only language for their parents communication so they will defintedly speakmore mandarin at home than cantonese( or no cantonese at all )

sorry, i have no offense to the brothers from the north, but that is the reality of problem to the cantonese lanuage - the language of the mass immigrants speak in guongdong can threaten the existence of cantonese dialect. not saying the problem of the people

did someone say guognzhou is the only place in china with its own dialect speak channel? but other chian provinces seem ok in presrving their dialects ealthough they dont have their own dialect speakign channel? im nto sure how factual these infroamtiosn are because i dont live in china


This post has been edited by GunNRoses: Jul 14 2010, 12:56 PM

[GunNRoses]

http://gcontent.oeeee.com/1/93/193002e6687...031/18ba1e.html

by the way, if you are vietnamese, please stay out of our business.
our cantonese culture have nothing to do with vietnamese

thanks

[pka7]

by the way, if you are vietnamese, please stay out of our business.
our cantonese culture have nothing to do with vietnamese

thanks

oh, how should I prove that I'm a Cantonese from HK?

Is that enough?
You're very funny.



Even if I were a "Vietnamese", it was not wrong for me to care about a language that is being wiped out.

This post has been edited by pka7: Jul 14 2010, 05:14 PM

[pka7]

I don't see the future of Cantonese in HK.
HKer is terrible money animal that can give up anything for money.
Also, Hong Kong can't control her own immigration policy and non
Cantonese speaking immigrants are taking over HK.
Besides, TVB is now a pro-Beijng channel that people nicknamed it "CCTVB".
TVB is just another business and businessmen obey the Central government,
not even Google can escape from their barbarian policies. TVB pearl is more like a Mandarin channel now...

This post has been edited by pka7: Jul 14 2010, 05:21 PM

[TMM]

This is a mere proposal and nothing have happened...no bans ...nothing...I don't see why you overacting like this, if anyone it should be those with only a few million speaker that should be worry. Cantonese however is safer than most other dialects. I don't see Cantonese or Hokkien fading in the future, not sure about others tho.

This post has been edited by TMM: Jul 14 2010, 07:50 PM

[togepi]

oh, how should I prove that I'm a Cantonese from HK?

Is that enough?
You're very funny.



Even if I were a "Vietnamese", it was not wrong for me to care about a language that is being wiped out.

Colony

[FrenchVanillaNYC]

Don't most Chinese networks use subtitles for their programming anyway? Why can't non-Cantonese speakers just be happy with reading the words at the bottom?

[Mid-Night_Sun]

This is a mere proposal and nothing have happened...no bans ...nothing...I don't see why you overacting like this, if anyone it should be those with only a few million speaker that should be worry. Cantonese however is safer than most other dialects. I don't see Cantonese or Hokkien fading in the future, not sure about others tho.

its true, there isnt any active policy, for now, that is doing anything.

but this is a serious issue for HKers because we see what is happening in Canton. its even more complicated because of this


"Last year, 28,000 Hong Kong men tied the knot with mainland women, an 80% increase since 2001, while 6,500 women chose a mainland partner. All told, 35% of the marriages registered in Hong Kong involved a mainland spouse."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/IH09Ad02.html


"which is well below the replacement level of 2.1. and expected to remain low in the
future while life expectancy (79.5 for males and 85.6 for females in 2006) continues
to rise (projected to reach 82.7 for males and 88.3 for females in 2036), resulting in an
ageing population and increasing elderly dependency ratio (168 per 1000 in 2006, but
expected to reach 425 per 1,000 people in 2036). This highlights the importance of
the significant fraction of births in Hong Kong to Mainland mothers (around 40%),
many of whom (over 30%) have Hong Kong permanent resident husbands. Crossboundary
marriages are also important in terms of finding spouses for many Hong
Kong residents."

"Cross-boundary marriages have become an increasingly important element in
marriages involving Hong Kong residents (almost 35,000 in 2006 versus 29,000 other
marriages in Hong Kong). The marriages are increasingly taking place in Hong Kong
so over 53% of the registered marriages in Hong Kong involved a mainland spouse in
2008. This provides an opportunity for both men and women in Hong Kong to find
spouses, particularly for those who have difficulty finding someone with similar
educational background.
Cross-boundary births have also become increasingly important and births in Hong
Kong to Mainland mothers and Hong Kong fathers now represent 25% of births in
Hong Kong with Hong Kong fathers. Because these children are born in Hong Kong,
they already have Hong Kong Permanent Resident (HKPR) status and do not need to
use OWP quota."

http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr08-09/english/hc...b2-1116-2-e.pdf


in all likelihood, the hk spouse's mandarin is going to be better than the mainland spouse's cantonese. so their family life is probably going to be speaking mandarin. (as someone already mention) to be frank, the ability to absorb and assimilate so many mainlanders and half mainlander is not something we are optimistic about.

if it was just a small percentage, of course its no problem. but since its so large, they could have mando groups in the places where typically HK would assimilate someone. like school for example. they wouldnt be as pressured to assimilate. this is true all over the world when you have a large minority community.


im not sure what HK can do about it.

they try some things
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=231943

but its hands are tied when it comes to dealing with mainland. options are very limited. HK wont be the only ones facing this issue though in the future as more and more mainland immigrants go everywhere.

[pawulkawk1]

Mid-Night_Sun:

You see..this thread is a classic example of HKers working together in "troop" if you didn't know what I meant before:) Which explains why such survey you mentioned before done by HKers can be faked by the participants. The truth is marrying a white in HK is considered is looked up on highly by society.

And no I not butthurt. lol

[Mid-Night_Sun]

the truth is same as before, you are just throwing statements out there. nobody is working together here, its just opinions. even if there was "troop" working, it has nothing to do with white people.

get off our nuts and stop obsessing. the only one who looks up to white people is you. that is the only thing you have proven with your posts. realize that.

[BurdenOfAges]

Because most people in the world are mono-lingual, the promotion of Mandarin in relation to Cantonese is a zero-sum game. Ultimately, one language will fall into decline, and in this case it will be Cantonese.

That is not to say Cantonese will go extinct. It will continue to be spoken, but gradually it will move in the direction of Mandarin, as the original non-Sinitic languages of the native south became Sinitic overtime, and as the various European languages are becoming more Anglic. This occurred not because governments actively suppressed native languages, but simply because of the opportunity benefits associated with speaking the "lingua franca," and people's natural propensity towards being mono-lingual.

There is one caveat to this argument: technology could potentially stave off the decline of native languages through more effective translation software, which would obviate the need to learn the lingua franca. Of course, true translation is AI-complete - a problem which, if solved, would solve all of human intelligence.

[bear11]

Guangdong has three dialests, in central is Cantonese, in the north is Teochew(Chaoshan region) and standard Hakka dialect.

Ultimately, one language will fall into decline,

The same thing happening in Europe with languages like Occitan in southern France, Scottish and Welsh in United Kingdom... In Japan, Okinawan and Ainu language are extinct.

This post has been edited by bear11: Jul 15 2010, 11:24 PM

[BurdenOfAges]

Don't most Chinese networks use subtitles for their programming anyway? Why can't non-Cantonese speakers just be happy with reading the words at the bottom?

It's the same rationale as used by opponents of bilingualism in the US - why should Americans have to read subtitles when they travel to a different part of the country? Isn't it a single country?

Language is a basic aspect of identity, and has profound implications for politics. A country can be inclusively multi-lingual - in which there exists a lingua franca that everyone speaks but also various regional languages - but it cannot be exclusively multi-lingual - in which regional languages are promoted at the expense of the lingua franca. The latter case almost inevitably leads to segregation and fragmentation if the various linguistic communities are of sufficient size to claim autonomy. There is nothing peculiar about this. People can only form communities with people they can communicate with, and a nation is a sort of community formed by mass communication.

This post has been edited by BurdenOfAges: Jul 15 2010, 11:36 PM

[tianya]

^
Could viets and koreans leave this topic?

[LacKuma]

^
Could viets and koreans leave this topic?

Sorry, but I'm a Viet and I have to intervene. I would like to add a language to this discussion: Teo Chiew or Chaozhou hua.

I heard that it's the oldest dialect of Chinese.


To pka7: 2 generations is enough to kill a language:

Grandpa - Speaks Teo Chiew, little vietnamese with chinese accent
Mom - Speaks Viet 100%, understands only a little bit of Teo Chiew (I doubt if she can still remember what Teo Chiew sounds like)
Me- Speaks Viet 100% - understands no Teo Chiew

Teo Chiew accent of mainland China is rapidly assimilating into the mainstream dialect (standard guanhua). Too late to do anything to save this dialect.

This post has been edited by LacKuma: Jul 16 2010, 08:36 AM

[tianya]

Sorry, but I'm a Viet and I have to intervene. I would like to add a language to this discussion: Teo Chiew or Chaozhou hua.

I heard that it's the oldest dialect of Chinese.


To pka7: 2 generations is enough to kill a language:

Grandpa - Speaks Teo Chiew, little vietnamese with chinese accent
Mom - Speaks Viet 100%, understands only a little bit of Teo Chiew (I doubt if she can still remember what Teo Chiew sounds like)
Me- Speaks Viet 100% - understands no Teo Chiew

Teo Chiew accent of mainland China is rapidly assimilating into the mainstream dialect (standard guanhua). Too late to do anything to save this dialect.

Its ur Mum decide to give up her chinese identity. So please be a proud viet and leave this thread, could u?

[LacKuma]

Fine, whatever u say. I'll just spectate.

This post has been edited by LacKuma: Jul 16 2010, 09:01 AM

[tianya]

^
then u should shut up from the beginning.
Thanks a lot.


btw I hope ur decendents can keep ur own language.

[GunNRoses]

Because most people in the world are mono-lingual, the promotion of Mandarin in relation to Cantonese is a zero-sum game. Ultimately, one language will fall into decline, and in this case it will be Cantonese.

That is not to say Cantonese will go extinct. It will continue to be spoken, but gradually it will move in the direction of Mandarin, as the original non-Sinitic languages of the native south became Sinitic overtime, and as the various European languages are becoming more Anglic. This occurred not because governments actively suppressed native languages, but simply because of the opportunity benefits associated with speaking the "lingua franca," and people's natural propensity towards being mono-lingual.

There is one caveat to this argument: technology could potentially stave off the decline of native languages through more effective translation software, which would obviate the need to learn the lingua franca. Of course, true translation is AI-complete - a problem which, if solved, would solve all of human intelligence.

get your fact right. cantonese is much more ancinet than mandarin is with a lot of ancien tones preserved
what do you mean by south native became sinitic overtime ? if you dont know jack about our history then better keep quiet and stop prteneedign to be an expert

cantonese is basically the language of tang which can rhyme better in the tang poetry than any other chinese dialects with a lot of missing tones of the ancinet han language
im really annoyed and disgusted by your fake knowledge

be honest, are you even chinese? i been observing you for a while now. you talk like foreginer who pretend to knows a lot of chinese history
only oversea asian and other asian will believe your imaginative fake infromations

This post has been edited by GunNRoses: Jul 16 2010, 09:33 AM

[Titanium]

Like I said, as long as Chinese dialects are spoken at home, it won't die......however replacing local dialects (In this case Cantonese) for Mandarin is undoubtedly a huge blow.