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Spanish heritage, What is wrong if we choose to ignore it and let it die
YasukeKomiya
post Nov 26 2010, 03:30 AM
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My brother says that there is nothing wrong with letting our Hispanic roots die out since most of us do not have a close Spanish ancestor. We as a people (or in my opinion individuals) can choose and it may seem to some "stupid" but its not like without our Spanish roots we are nothing. If anything else we should reforge our identity. You could whether or not to accept it but one side should not ridicule the other. Ultimately don't each individual has the final on how they view themselves?
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filipinoy
post Nov 26 2010, 02:50 PM
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mahalin ang sariling atin
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YasukeKomiya
post Nov 26 2010, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (filipinoy @ Nov 26 2010, 11:50 AM) *
mahalin ang sariling atin

I'm sorry I do not understand Tagalog (yes I know shame on my part). My brother just proposed this statement and I was trying to think of some argument against it. I know there is one but it is escaping me. He does have a point that we are not less of a person if we choose to ignore it but I know there is something to argue about here.
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filipinoy
post Nov 26 2010, 04:23 PM
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"cherish what is truly ours"

an argument someone could use.... that with these other influences.. makes our culture "richer & more diverse"

(You could whether or not to accept it but one side should not ridicule the other. Ultimately don't each individual has the final on how they view themselves? )
could be..
but then, if each individual claims this thing & the next person a whole different one.. there will be no unity as a people.. & our people would (esp. in the eyes of non-filipinos) just look "confused" or doesn't know themselves" or have "colonial mentality" & they notice this

reminds me of the famous jose rizal quote,
"Ang hindi magmahal sa sariling wika ay higit pa sa hayop at malansang isda" ("He who does not love his own language is worse than an animal and smelly fish.")
but he's talking about more that just language

[Without a common identity, there could be no real sense of nationhood. This is what Rizal meant by that famous quotation]
good analogy.. http://thefilipinomind.blogspot.com/2005/1...-malansang.html
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YasukeKomiya
post Nov 26 2010, 04:51 PM
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so what is this common identity? in a country like the Philippines with its diversity what common identity do we have? I like our chats I find your opinions thought out.
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filipinoy
post Nov 26 2010, 06:38 PM
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every native filipino ethnic group have the same roots... same language family.. similar austronesian cultures.... common history ...fought the same oppressors... same struggle... things like that


we have more in common than we have differences

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YasukeKomiya
post Nov 26 2010, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (filipinoy @ Nov 26 2010, 03:38 PM) *
every native filipino ethnic group have the same roots... same language family.. similar austronesian cultures.... common history ...fought the same oppressors... same struggle... things like that


we have more in common than we have differences


that was what I was going for very nice answer. I was just thinkin the same thing. So do you think we should use spanish as a lingua franca or just try to revise Pilipino to have less tagalog and more balance
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filipinoy
post Nov 26 2010, 10:53 PM
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i don't want the gods of our conquerors nor their language to be the lingua franca of the native Austronesian people of our islands

This post has been edited by filipinoy: Nov 26 2010, 10:53 PM
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LazyAzian
post Nov 27 2010, 01:01 AM
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If Filipinos let their Hispanic roots die and simply ignore the Spanish language, they are being careless about their own history and culture.

Note that 90% of Filipino history is written in Spanish, and only a few percentage has been translated into English.

If you let your Hispanic roots die, the future generations of Filipinos will not know who the hell Jose Rizal was and that he wrote two Spanish novels, Noli Mi Tangere and El Filibusterismo, and that his last goodbye farewell before execution was written in Spanish.

You will forget the history of your national anthem, originally written in Spanish by Juan Palma, Filipinas.

You will forget the history of your own Declaration of Independence from the United States of America, which was originally written in Spanish.

Basically ignoring a certain aspect of one's culture and not acknowledging it and try to preserve it like every other aspect is being ignorant and reckless of one's own heritage.

Your brother, my dear, is not proud to be Filipino. You can't scream Filipino pride and say f*ck Hispanicism. Your saying f*ck to the Roman Catholicism of the Philippines which has Latin and Spanish roots. You're saying f*ck to Juan Luna who studied in the Royal Academy in Madrid, Spain.

This post has been edited by LazyAzian: Nov 27 2010, 01:07 AM
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YasukeKomiya
post Nov 27 2010, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (LazyAzian @ Nov 26 2010, 10:01 PM) *
If Filipinos let their Hispanic roots die and simply ignore the Spanish language, they are being careless about their own history and culture.

Note that 90% of Filipino history is written in Spanish, and only a few percentage has been translated into English.

If you let your Hispanic roots die, the future generations of Filipinos will not know who the hell Jose Rizal was and that he wrote two Spanish novels, Noli Mi Tangere and El Filibusterismo, and that his last goodbye farewell before execution was written in Spanish.

You will forget the history of your national anthem, originally written in Spanish by Juan Palma, Filipinas.

You will forget the history of your own Declaration of Independence from the United States of America, which was originally written in Spanish.

Basically ignoring a certain aspect of one's culture and not acknowledging it and try to preserve it like every other aspect is being ignorant and reckless of one's own heritage.

Your brother, my dear, is not proud to be Filipino. You can't scream Filipino pride and say f*ck Hispanicism. Your saying f*ck to the Roman Catholicism of the Philippines which has Latin and Spanish roots. You're saying f*ck to Juan Luna who studied in the Royal Academy in Madrid, Spain.



Well he is only proud of the non-Western aspects of Filipino. He is not very fond of Western culture, and I don't think denying the Roman Catholicism aspect is denying Spain, the Catholic Church is its own culture to which I am very proud of.
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LazyAzian
post Nov 27 2010, 01:30 AM
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QUOTE (YasukeKomiya @ Nov 27 2010, 02:23 AM) *
Well he is only proud of the non-Western aspects of Filipino. He is not very fond of Western culture, and I don't think denying the Roman Catholicism aspect is denying Spain, the Catholic Church is its own culture to which I am very proud of.


Roman Catholicism in the Philippines is heavily dominated by Spanish culture. A ast majority of the churches in the Philippines for example, the ones built during the Spanish era, were all sponsored by the Spanish monarchy.

The Catholic Church itself is mainly Middle-Eastern and Latin culture.

French, Spanish and Italian culture evolved out of Latin culture.

Roman Catholicism was spread mainly by the Spanish Catholic Monarchs, Queen Isabel and King Philip (where Philippines got its name). If the Spanish monarchy had not converted South America, the Philippines and Africa I think Anglican and Prontestantism would be more dominent by now since the British were also great colonizers and spread the Church of England (Anglicanism).
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YasukeKomiya
post Nov 27 2010, 01:33 AM
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QUOTE (LazyAzian @ Nov 26 2010, 10:30 PM) *
Roman Catholicism in the Philippines is heavily dominated by Spanish culture. A ast majority of the churches in the Philippines for example, the ones built during the Spanish era, were all sponsored by the Spanish monarchy.

The Catholic Church itself is mainly Middle-Eastern and Latin culture.

French, Spanish and Italian culture evolved out of Latin culture.

Roman Catholicism was spread mainly by the Spanish Catholic Monarchs, Queen Isabel and King Philip (where Philippines got its name). If the Spanish monarchy had not converted South America, the Philippines and Africa I think Anglican and Prontestantism would be more dominent by now since the British were also great colonizers and spread the Church of England (Anglicanism).


well if we are to acknowledge our Spanish roots then shouldn't they stop trying to deny they have Arabic roots. Ironically even though they were under the rule of a foreign power for some 800 years once they reclaimed their peninsula they kicked out Jews and Arabs unless they converted. They used religion as some ways to justify their actions.
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LazyAzian
post Nov 28 2010, 07:22 AM
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QUOTE (YasukeKomiya @ Nov 27 2010, 02:33 AM) *
well if we are to acknowledge our Spanish roots then shouldn't they stop trying to deny they have Arabic roots. Ironically even though they were under the rule of a foreign power for some 800 years once they reclaimed their peninsula they kicked out Jews and Arabs unless they converted. They used religion as some ways to justify their actions.


The Spaniards acknowledge their Arabian roots, where the hell did you get the idea of denying them?

There's even a Spanish creole language that's mixed with Middle-Eastern languages, called Ladino.

If you go to Spain, the people and government have preserved numerous Arabic heritage sites, such as Alhambra.

Just because Spain is predominantly Catholic doesn't mean they are denying their Arabic roots. The Spanish language itself contains Arabic words.

Also it was the war of religions back in those days. You're talking about the Crusades and all that.

If you look at it as a whole, both Muslims and Christians are stupid since they used their religion to justfiy their actions.

Sure the Kingdom of Leon and Castille expelled that Arabians and Islam in the Iberian peninsula.

But what have you got to say of the Islam Turks invading the Christian Greeks and enslaving them.

Better yet, about the invasion of Turkey and Istanbul by the Islamic Persians, where numerous Christians were massacred during the siege of Istanbul, once a Christian city, now is an Islamic city, with little traces of its Christian roots.

Ironically the star you see in the flag of Turkey used to represent the Virgin Mary.

This is my issue with people, they look everything on one point of view, they never bother to learn the whole story.

Now the Islams don't sound so nice now are they. Christians weren't nice either.

This post has been edited by LazyAzian: Nov 28 2010, 07:26 AM
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filipinoy
post Nov 29 2010, 02:41 AM
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QUOTE (LazyAzian @ Nov 26 2010, 11:30 PM) *
I think Anglican and Prontestantism would be more dominent by now since the British were also great colonizers and spread the Church of England (Anglicanism).

hmm, maybe not.. former parts of the british empire in Asia .. India, Bahrain, Palestine, Malaysia, Pakistan, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Singapore, Bangladesh, Brunei, Sri Lanka, Yemen, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Jordan, Nepal, Myanmar, Hong Kong.. they pretty much all kept their religions
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maharlikangpilip...
post Nov 29 2010, 03:05 AM
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QUOTE (filipinoy @ Nov 29 2010, 02:41 AM) *
hmm, maybe not.. former parts of the british empire in Asia .. India, Bahrain, Palestine, Malaysia, Pakistan, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Singapore, Bangladesh, Brunei, Sri Lanka, Yemen, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Jordan, Nepal, Myanmar, Hong Kong.. they pretty much all kept their religions



I think Protestantism is much much more "culture friendly" than the "religion" they call catholicism.
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filipinoy
post Nov 29 2010, 03:47 AM
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im not sure about it being 'much much more' culture friendly. theyre wernt that friendly to the natives of the US, i can tell you that
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matigasngulo
post Nov 29 2010, 03:58 AM
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well, if you have to say something good about the former British Empire, it's that beside killing the American Indians, pillaging India and pimping & drugging China it did abolish slavery in Africa and the Transatlantic slave trade, at least after earning some money after capturing the Portuguese and Spanish slave monopoly. That's also where most the Anglican missionaries went, although they have some major difference of opinions today.
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filipinoy
post Nov 29 2010, 04:02 AM
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its more like whose lesser of the two evils embarassedlaugh.gif
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matigasngulo
post Nov 29 2010, 04:34 AM
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QUOTE
I would rather lose all my lands and a hundred lives than be king over heretics.


He still watches our every step, the baroque Castilian bureaucrat...too bad that noone, Indio, Moro or Kastila really cared for his opinion in Spain's westernmost colony. icon_redface.gif

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Najjiah
post Dec 3 2010, 12:12 AM
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QUOTE (LazyAzian @ Nov 26 2010, 09:30 PM) *
Roman Catholicism in the Philippines is heavily dominated by Spanish culture. A ast majority of the churches in the Philippines for example, the ones built during the Spanish era, were all sponsored by the Spanish monarchy.

The Catholic Church itself is mainly Middle-Eastern and Latin culture.

French, Spanish and Italian culture evolved out of Latin culture.

Roman Catholicism was spread mainly by the Spanish Catholic Monarchs, Queen Isabel and King Philip (where Philippines got its name). If the Spanish monarchy had not converted South America, the Philippines and Africa I think Anglican and Prontestantism would be more dominent by now since the British were also great colonizers and spread the Church of England (Anglicanism).

mali po ang sinabi nyo! ang iglesia catolica ay western christianity po. dahil nung taon 1054 po, nagkaroon ng tawag na "east-west schism". yung eastern christianity ng mg mga arabo, greco, mga russo ay eastern orthodox christians. ang mga roman catholics po ay mga western christians.

sa hurisdiksyon ng iglesia tomana catolica ay nag bigay bunga ang mga iba't ibang denominations na kristyano tulad ng mga protestante, mormon, evagelical, iglesia ni kristo, aglipay, ect.

yun lang po.
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