Islamic religion questions Options

[直隸總督]

It is a great possibility that PrismKnight7 IS User1. He created this account just to make Chinese nationalists look bad.
It's funny that he's far more active and motivated to find out who this troll is, even though himself is not a CNA member. And he surely checks every link in everyone's signature on CNA. How efficient. 2
You plotted all these, User1/777/rudeboy/heyniceboard.

This post has been edited by 直隸總督: Dec 14 2004, 10:11 PM

[PrismKnight7]

But its the damned truth you fools! Mongoloids are really depigmented negritos! OK, that's an exaggeration, but there is a direct lineage and relationship between Oceanic Melanesians/Negritos and Mongoloids althought this relationship had been greatly blurred out by thousands of years of isolation. Mongoloids (pure ones at least) are not in any way supposed to be related to Caucasians, meaning they did not split from them or split with them(as User1 asumes). Caucasians and Mongoloids are very different from each other, althought they seem closely related in genetic studies due to their comparison with Africans, and the intermixing that occured. Your ancestors were small, flat faced, Sundadont, "negritos". The old men in 直隸總督's signature, except for th last one who seems to have more Caucasian contribution than the rest, could easily be mistaken for certain Melanesians or Oceanic negroids if their skin was dark brown and if they had a higher degree of prognatism(monkey mouth). Facial flatness, and mono-lid eyes are qualities that exist in Africans and Oceanic Negroids, so its logical to conclude that they originated from the south and later varied.

The reason the Negrito phenotype (not genes, because you have them) have been diluted greatly was because of an agricultural expansions that overwhelmed the more primitive people in southern areas, that's obvious. For example Russel Simmons wife, Kimora Lee Simmons, is black/Japanese, yet she can pass for an East Asian in certain instances, especially her facial structure. In the next generation, she married a black man and her children look more African, but if she married an Asian, her children would look even more Mongoloid. The second case seems to have happened in Southeast Asian/Pacific Islands, were the contribution of male descendants is from the north, and the females are natives from the south(more negroid appearence). Add preferential selection for Mongoloid phenotypes and you get Japan or Southeast China! Not to mention that brain capacity coincides with phenotypes, and Mongoloids are more intelligent than their southern ancestors, and that quality was very useful in agricultural societies.

I have Megabytes of anthropological info in CDs, Ive read many papers, and I can post a lot of info. But I dont want to bother educating people who don't want to learn or open their minds to the truth, and still believe in old, false knowledge.

This post has been edited by PrismKnight7: Dec 15 2004, 12:37 PM

[華夏無產]

But its the damned truth you fools! Mongoloids are really depigmented negritos! OK, that's an exaggeration, but there is a direct lineage and relationship between Oceanic Melanesians/Negritos and Mongoloids althought this relationship had been greatly blurred out by thousands of years of isolation.

I wonder if PrismKnight here knows is that is the exact same argument used by proponents of Afrocentrism. So now I know for sure that PrismKnight7 is a troll, and that he also doesn't know what he's talking about. Just for the record, the term "negrito" was coined by spanish explorers who thought that the Ati/Semang/Andamanese looked like blacks. However, links to the African continent could not be firmly established (in an anthropological sense). Linguistically, Malagasy, an Austronesian language were spoken in Madagascar, but that is pretty much as far as the connection goes. Furthermore, they are one of the most primitive peoples on the planet. The Andamanese could not make fire until well into the modern times (in the case of some tribes, 20th century). The Semang even lived in caves and had clothes made from treebark.

Your ancestors were small, flat faced, Sundadont, "negritos".

The Dongyi type is not related to the "Negrito" types of southern Asia.

For example Russel Simmons wife, Kimora Lee Simmons, is black/Japanese, yet she can pass for an East Asian in certain instances, especially her facial structure. In the next generation, she married a black man and her children look more African, but if she married an Asian, her children would look even more Mongoloid.

No $hit, sherlock. It's called the Law of Composition. A hybrid species, by mathematical reasoning would have half the traits of both parents. Thus the offspring of a hybrid with a "pure" specimen would be composed of 3/4 of one traits, and 1/4. Nice piece of deduction there.

This post has been edited by 華夏無產: Dec 15 2004, 01:06 PM

[PrismKnight7]

"Afrocentrism? Now I know for sure that PrismKnight7 is a troll, and that he also doesn't know what he's talking about. Furthermore, the Pyongyang or Cheju-Do type of Korean is far more flat-faced than some of the southeast asian races."

No, fool, I have not linked Melanesians with Africans or have said Africans created all civilizations, until the white or yellow men stole them. Im speaking in terms of morphology and genetic affinity, this has nothing to with with Black Africans. Extreme facial flatness is a micro-evolution that seems to have occured in the original Northeast Asian Mongoloids, like the Oroqon, who are originally from the coast of China, and have been isolated for a large period of time, look up the connection between Taiwanese Aboriginals, Orochon, Mongololians and Inuit.

"The Dongyi type is not related to the "Negrito" types of southern Asia."

There is no such thing as a Dong Yi racial type. Its only your made-up classification that has nothing to do with race/phenotype. That's only an ancient ethnic description for people who lived in the eastern parts of China, and they can include many "races".

"No $hit, sherlock. It's called the Law of Composition. A hybrid species, by mathematical reasoning would have half the traits of both parents. Thus the offspring of a hybrid with a "pure" specimen would be composed of 3/4 of one traits, and 1/4. Nice piece of deduction there."

Mendelian genetics or principles are not enough to describe the diversity of humans.
----

This is from an Anthro message board that summarises papers that support my assumption.

"Philip Dei: Conclusions. The Taiwan aboriginals clearly have ties to the
Maori. Originally I stated there was an association with the
Japanese via Ryukyu. However, the estimated Jomon haplotypes
show them to be rather void relative to the Koreans. Its
connection with the Inuit, Yakuts, Orochon and Korean is
suggestive of an inland route past the tw-aboriginals, seen in
other studies. However something interesting becomes apparent
studying the A-B-DR patterns. Instead of hitting Taiwan's
aboriginal population the majority of direct recent hits
appears to favor the coastal chinese population or minimally
the displaced peoples of western taiwan (diffuse into the
Min-nan). This suggests that the associations between the
tw-aboriginal is a tw-aboriginal proximal relationship and not
a direct relationship. I would take the current tentative
belief that the tw-aboriginal component of the Maori is the
result of a displacement of a population that lived once
slightly north and west of where taiwan's aboriginal
population now live. The absence of even smaller haplotypes in
the Ryukyuans places this group east of this center. I would
like to point out that in other studies I see 'streaks' of HLA
that appear to have originated in Western Eurasia, more
recently, that flow through the west pacific rim population,
but are devoid of markers that would indicated post-columbian
gene flow. These streaks appear also with backflow from
Austronesian like markers not found in eurasia suggesting that
in the region of northern china, manchuria and korea WEA,
middle eastern and Austronesia peoples mixed and after doing
so radiated in many directions, mostly northeastward but some
geneflow south. Thus it is not implausible to me that the
tw-abo component of the Maori left and settled New Zealand and
was later invaded by PNG population, in a process that
immediately eliminated all the pre-existing males. This
population might have left region proximal to Taiwan as the
current interglacial begins. One thing the is apparent is that
the relationship between the Taiwan aboriginals and Maori is
not recent (within 100s of years) .

References.

Most of this data comes from the 1991 workshop.

Also:

Ryukyuans: Hatta et al. Human Biology 1999, 71:353-356 Ainu:
Tissue Antigens 2000, 55:128-139 Taiwan Aboriginals and
Philippines Ivatans. Tissue Antigens 2001, 58:9-16. PNG
highlanders. Tissue Antigens 1999 53:311-319."

This post has been edited by PrismKnight7: Dec 15 2004, 01:16 PM

[華夏無產]

No, fool, I have not linked Melanesians with Africans or have said Africans created all civilizations, until the white or yellow men stole them. Im speaking in terms of morphology and genetic affinity, this has nothing to with with Black Africans. Extreme facial flatness is a micro-evolution that seems to have occured in the original Northeast Asian Mongoloids, like the Oroqon, who are originally from the coast of China, and have been isolated for a large period of time, look up the connection between Taiwanese Aboriginals, Orochon, Mongololians and Inuit.

Taiwanese Aboriginals = most likely Malayid
Orochon = Tungusid
Mongolians = more than one racial type involved; According to the last pdf document which I read about this topic, it's only the y-chromosomes of "northern Han" and Koreans which cluster. All other gene studies showed Koreans' affinities to Mongols and maybe several Siberian races.
Similar y-chromosomes were also found among populations racially as different as pure northern American natives and pure Europeans. In those cases it was also just the y-chromosomes which indicated "genetically close relatedness".
Inuit = Americanoid/Arctic

"No $hit, sherlock. It's called the Law of Composition. A hybrid species, by mathematical reasoning would have half the traits of both parents. Thus the offspring of a hybrid with a "pure" specimen would be composed of 3/4 of one traits, and 1/4. Nice piece of deduction there."

Mendelian genetics or principles are not enough to describe the diversity of humans.

I wasn't referring to Mendelian genetics. It's a simple law of nature in the case of racial "mongrelisation", one looks like the race that they have the most genes from. You wouldn't expect someone who was 1/8 black and 7/8 white to have black skin and curly hair, would you?

Also, give me a link to that site.

This post has been edited by 華夏無產: Dec 15 2004, 01:17 PM

[PrismKnight7]

"Taiwanese Aboriginals = most likely Malayid
Orochon = Tungusid"

Stop with the classifications that dont have any relevance to genetic/racial affinity. "Malayids" are as much related to many Mainland Chinese as they are with Taiwanese Aboriginals. Tungusic is only a subfamily of the Altaic language, it has nothing to do with "race".

"Mongolians = more than one racial type involved; According to the last pdf document which I read about this topic, it's only the y-chromosomes of "northern Han" and Koreans which cluster."

Y-Chromosome typing is not good for <specific> classifications of people.

"All other gene studies showed Koreans' affinities to Mongols and maybe several Siberian races."

That's obvious because they live close to each other, but where did they originate? How many migrations took place? Which 'group' expanded?

"Similar y-chromosomes were also found among populations racially as different as pure northern American natives and pure Europeans. In those cases it was also just the y-chromosomes which indicated "genetically close relatedness".""

Genetically close relatedness in that context means they have interbred or are an ancestral populations. In the case of European males, they have interbreed with Mongoloid females of North Asia. The ancient relatives of Europeans, who are Jomonese-like, have traveled to Mongolia, Korea, Japan and into North America.

"Inuit = Americanoid/Arctic"

?

[Nordicman]

I always knew you weren't Chinese, Frontier_Relic/PrismKnight7.

I am Norwegian, and this is the first time I have ever posted anything on this board. I wasn't aware that somebody had posted similar links before, but these are some of the best, critical links about Islam. One of them has some info in Chinese:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Chinese/what_quran_teaches.htm

[User1]

It is a great possibility that PrismKnight7 IS User1. He created this account just to make Chinese nationalists look bad.
It's funny that he's far more active and motivated to find out who this troll is, even though himself is not a CNA member. And he surely checks every link in everyone's signature on CNA. How efficient.  2
You plotted all these, User1/777/rudeboy/heyniceboard.

I'm PrismKnight7? Yeah.. And I'm not heyniceboard either.. Wanna have a conference call?

PrismKnight7, here are Indonesian and Papuan admixtures, a darker skinned version of the Ainu who have roughly the same genetic profile (Mongoloid and Australoid lineages.. though the Indonesians also have negrito lineages).

This below is a Papuan/Melanesian BTW, who are different from negritos genetically and phenotypically.


And all people came out of a darker form. Most of the East Asiatic lineages are traced out of Central Asia:


Check the Amerind lineages that look "Caucasian", they all have more or less the M130 beach comber lineage that went down to Papua and Australia and went to Japan and joined the Mongoloid lines into America.

This post has been edited by User1: Dec 16 2004, 06:33 PM

[PrismKnight7]

Those pictures dont prove anything, considering Austromelanesians are an extremely admixed and diverse population that received contribution from many waves of humans, from the original negritos(first humans to settle Sahul and Sundaland) to the "polynesians" who mixed with them in recent times. So they vary a lot.

My main case is that mongoloids are primarily derived from the early wave of negrito-like people into Asia. Asian/Pacific mtDNA/maternal lineages belong to superhap M, not 'N' which is only found in Europeans/Middle Easterners and some Indians. If you want to prove that Caucasians and Mongoloids "split" from each other you have to back it up with RECENT genetic or anthropological evidence.

*"Check the Amerind lineages that look "Caucasian", they all have more or less the M130 beach comber lineage that went down to Papua and Australia and went to Japan and joined the Mongoloid lines into America."

The Japanese-S. American connection is easy to make, and that's due mainly to the Jomon/Ainu. Whatever relation they have with PNG/Australia is either very minimal or secondhand, brought by proto-Mongoloids from the south.

This post has been edited by PrismKnight7: Dec 16 2004, 06:45 PM

[erik770]

How in the fu-k did a discussion about islam turned into a racial one.

[PrismKnight7]

"Genetic link between Asians and native Americans: evidence from HLA genes and haplotypes."

We have been studying polymorphisms of HLA class I and II genes in East Asians including Buryat in Siberia, Mongolian, Han Chinese, Man Chinese, Korean Chinese, South Korean, and Taiwan indigenous populations in collaboration with many Asian scientists. Regional populations in Japan, Hondo-Japanese, Ryukyuan, and Ainu, were also studied. HLA-A, -B, and -DRB1 gene frequencies were subjected to the correspondence analysis and calculation of DA distances. The correspondence analysis demonstrated several major clusters of human populations in the world. "Mongoloid" populations were highly diversified, in which several clusters such as Northeast Asians, Southeast Asians, Oceanians, and Native Americans were observed. Interestingly, an indigenous population in North Japan, Ainu, was placed relatively close to Native Americans in the correspondence analysis. Distribution of particular HLA-A, -B, -DRB1 alleles and haplotypes was also analyzed in relation to migration and dispersal routes of ancestral populations. A number of alleles and haplotypes showed characteristic patterns of regional distribution. For example, B39-HR5-DQ7 (B*3901-DRB1*1406-DQB1*0301) was shared by Ainu and Native Americans. A24-Cw8-B48 was commonly observed in Taiwan indigenous populations, Maori in New Zealand, Orochon in Northeast China, Inuit, and Tlingit. These findings further support the genetic link between East Asians and Native Americans. We have proposed that various ancestral populations in East Asia, marked by different HLA haplotypes, had migrated and dispersed through multiple routes. Moreover, relatively small genetic distances and the sharing of several HLA haplotypes between Ainu and Native Americans suggest that these populations are descendants of some Upper Paleolithic populations of East Asia.

[PrismKnight7]

"Ancient population of Mongolia: Craniofacial morphological perspective. Pershing Place North & South: Friday, 11:15 AM"

The studies of prehistoric samples of Mongolia reveal great heterogeneity of morphological traits among the Neolithic (12-6 kya), Bronze and Iron ages populations (Tumen, 1985, 1992, Alexeev etal., 1987). Medieval and contemporary Mongolians have been shown to be more closely related to the prehistoric population of the Neolithic, Bronze and Iron Age from East Mongolia (Tumen. 1986, 1992)

The Asian Neolithic populations divided into three major clusters: one cluster includes East China and Primor'e groups, second cluster contains Neolithic populations from Amur basin and Yakutia, and others belong to the third cluster which in turn divides into three subclusters: the Jomon and the Neolithic population from Altai, Minusinsk and West Mongolia belong to one subcluster, Neolithic populations from Central and East China, and North and South Korea belong to another subcluster, and the third subcluster includes the populations from Cis-Baikalia, Transbaikalia, Northwest China, and East Mongolia.

The three major divisions of the dendrogram are observed among compared the Asian Bronze age populations. The first cluster includes South Siberians and West Mongolians, the second subcluster includes East Mongolian and Transbaikalian groups, and the third one includes bronze age populations from Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, Northeast and Central China, Yayoi, Central Mongolia, and South and North Korea. However, Central Mongolian and North Korean bronze age's groups show another separation within the third cluster.

This post has been edited by PrismKnight7: Dec 16 2004, 07:31 PM

[PrismKnight7]

Does anyone see a pattern here? There were many waves of people with a "Caucasian" morphology that travelled toward Eastern Asia, they took a northern route.


Cro-Magnon Man of France


Kennewick Man of North America



Late Paleolithic, Beijing, Zhoukoudian Man, resembles Cro-Magnon Man, a Caucasian





Ainu

This post has been edited by PrismKnight7: Dec 16 2004, 08:05 PM

[PrismKnight7]

"Mongoloids" from Mongolia, Tibet, China, mixed with "Caucasians"



Andean, Peruvian man



Korean woman

Now compare them with, your typical Mongoloid type, who are a population that came from the "South".

This post has been edited by PrismKnight7: Dec 16 2004, 07:46 PM

[User1]

Yes, there is a pattern, just not in the way you assume. It's because of a lack of knowledge on your part. The Cro-Magnon had a broad face with wide cheek bones, and was a derivative of a mamouth-hunting steppe people that was the first to enter into colder, non-African environments. One branch went west, as confirmed from genetic studies and the fossil record. If you check the fossil record in Europe, you'll see that two different strains met, one from the southern coastal root from the Middle East and the other from Siberia. This is corroborated by genetics. The Cro-Magnon is actually an intrusive element in Europe predicated by a more unspecified type from the Middle East 40,000 years ago (10,00 years earlier than Cro-Magnon) that clustered with Australians of that time. Modern races did not exist and people were more unspecified, safe the Cro-Magnon type witha range from eastern Europe to northern Asia with a locus of spread from Siberia and Central Asia.

Here are more accurate reconstructions of Cro-Magnons. Just type in the term on Yahoo Images:



Here are some of the modern Europeans that resemble them:


This is an idea of where the predominant line of Europeans came from:


Ainu are almost entirely made of Haplogroup C and D (Yap and M130) of the beach comber lingeaes, a genetic profile like that of the picture of the Indonesian and Papuan admixed man I showed you.

Some of the pictures you show are just paleo-Mongoloid phenotype, pre-18,000 years ago. Before the last ice age, that's what everyone looked like in northern Asia. After the ice age, more specified Mongoloids came down from Siberia and increased through the neolithic/farming expansion. Most of the paleo types are in in the peripheries, Tibet, certain parts of SE Asia, Taiwan, southern China, Japan.

Anyway, I really don't want to spend any more time on this with you as of now, but if you know genetics, the picture you painted is completely off. (NVM.. Don't need your foolery anymore than necessary.)

Those pictures dont prove anything, considering Austromelanesians are an extremely admixed and diverse population that received contribution from many waves of humans, from the original negritos(first humans to settle Sahul and Sundaland) to the "polynesians" who mixed with them in recent times. So they vary a lot.

These are specific people in Timor and Irian Jaya, who've admixed with Papuans. They're not Polynesians or anyone else. This is the consistent pattern on Timor and Irian Jaya. Go do a search. They also fit the genetic profile of Ainu.

"Genetic link between Asians and native Americans: evidence from HLA genes and haplotypes."

We have been studying polymorphisms of HLA class I and II genes in East Asians including Buryat in Siberia, Mongolian, Han Chinese, Man Chinese, Korean Chinese, South Korean, and Taiwan indigenous populations in collaboration with many Asian scientists. Regional populations in Japan, Hondo-Japanese, Ryukyuan, and Ainu, were also studied. HLA-A, -B, and -DRB1 gene frequencies were subjected to the correspondence analysis and calculation of DA distances. The correspondence analysis demonstrated several major clusters of human populations in the world. "Mongoloid" populations were highly diversified, in which several clusters such as Northeast Asians, Southeast Asians, Oceanians, and Native Americans were observed. Interestingly, an indigenous population in North Japan, Ainu, was placed relatively close to Native Americans in the correspondence analysis. Distribution of particular HLA-A, -B, -DRB1 alleles and haplotypes was also analyzed in relation to migration and dispersal routes of ancestral populations. A number of alleles and haplotypes showed characteristic patterns of regional distribution. For example, B39-HR5-DQ7 (B*3901-DRB1*1406-DQB1*0301) was shared by Ainu and Native Americans. A24-Cw8-B48 was commonly observed in Taiwan indigenous populations, Maori in New Zealand, Orochon in Northeast China, Inuit, and Tlingit. These findings further support the genetic link between East Asians and Native Americans. We have proposed that various ancestral populations in East Asia, marked by different HLA haplotypes, had migrated and dispersed through multiple routes. Moreover, relatively small genetic distances and the sharing of several HLA haplotypes between Ainu and Native Americans suggest that these populations are descendants of some Upper Paleolithic populations of East Asia.

These lineages are associated with the beach comber lineages, usually associated among Australoids, Papuans, Melanesians, though they are 40,000 years old and part of them went north. The Maoris got it because they are part Melanesian. The Ainu, American Indians, and people in Asia have it because of earlier migrations that happened tens of thousands of years ago. There higher distribution in certain groups is thought to be due to founder affects.

You can confirm this if you did a little work.

As I said, you take stuff and garble it up like a net expert who has had no formal education.

Familiarize yourself first before you open your trap, young one, because this stuff is very complicated and abstract. I keep it to a minimal on AF because no one here can understand. You think in terms of boxed terms as if modern races always existed as discreet entities. Try this first, and begin to get confused:
http://crchd.nci.nih.gov/meetings/conf/Rac...)/Underhill.ppt

This post has been edited by User1: Dec 17 2004, 08:13 PM

[PrismKnight7]

We dont agree on the specifics, but either way, Mongoloids are mongrels because they are a mixtued of people from Central Asia, and Southeast Asia. Which lineage do you prefer?

This post has been edited by PrismKnight7: Dec 17 2004, 10:12 PM

[華夏無產]

We dont agree on the specifics, but either way, Mongoloids are mongrels because they are a mixtued of people from Central Asia, and Southeast Asia. Which lineage do you prefer?

You didn't differentiate between primary and secondary mongoloids.

[PrismKnight7]

"You didn't differentiate between primary and secondary mongoloids."

What?

'The HLA system in the population of Mongolia.'

The frequencies of HLA-A, B, C and DRB1 alleles and haplotype frequencies for HLA-A, B, C and A, B, DR loci were studied in 201 healthy unrelated Khalkha-Mongolians. The most common class I antigens were A24 (25.8%), A2 (23.4%), B61 (12.6%), B51 (8.5%), Cw10 (14.2%), Cw9 (14.1%), Cw7 (13.3%), Cw1 (11.8%) and Cw6 (10.2%). A total of 35 DRB1 alleles were identified in this group of samples. The most frequent DRB1 allele was DRB1*0301 (11.1%), followed by DRB1*0701 (9.7%) and DRB1*1101 (8.5%). One novel DRB1 allele (14MV) and three rare types, DRB1*1111, DRB1*1504 and DRB1*1412, recently described in Jews, the Dai minority of China and Japanese, respectively, were identified in Mongolians. The phylogenetic tree constructed by UPG method put Mongolians in the Northeast Asian cluster. A comparison of three locus haplotype distributions with world populations, revealed that Mongolians share several characteristics in common with other Mongoloids as well as with Caucasoids and Amerindians. The most common A, B and DR haplotype in Mongolians, A33-B58-DR3, was shared with Thai, Thai Chinese and Singapore Chinese. These data support that unique genetic background of Mongolians played a major role in ethnic formation and differentiation of Mongoloid populations.

This post has been edited by PrismKnight7: Dec 18 2004, 11:48 AM

[User1]

We dont agree on the specifics, but either way, Mongoloids are mongrels because they are a mixtued of people from Central Asia, and Southeast Asia. Which lineage do you prefer?

Why do I have to chose a lineage when both formed Mongoloids? Do I have to prefer over one parent?

Caucasians are a mixture of the Siberian Cro-Magnon type with Middle Easterners, as the genetics says.

You think in terms of solid concepts of race, when every populations is a criss cross of older lines. My son, learn to suck it slowly and you will understand more. think before you speak.

Who cares? We all developed out of monkeys, which do you prefer? Adam and Eve or primates?

To make a story short, "Mongoloids" developed out of the meeting of two peoples, and later this people as a race expanded into SE Asia to "remix" with the various indigenous types.

HLA is notoriously inaccurate BTW... try Y-chromsome, mtDNA, and autosomal tracing.

This post has been edited by User1: Dec 19 2004, 02:33 PM

[Nordicman]

Discrimination against Chinese Tsunami victim in Aceh