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Is the Philippines really worth it?, I'm starting to give up
Prau123
post Dec 27 2010, 03:03 AM
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QUOTE (islander @ Dec 26 2010, 08:59 PM) *
Plenty of Spanish Silver dollars went from Mexico via the Philippines to China. The Silver dollars became Mexican when the Spanish left Mexico. So the Philippines was seeing plenty of Mexican Silver dollars and plenty of silver coins from other independent latin american nations. Problem was that they were not all the same quality. So the Spanish created a mint in the mid 19 century in Manila which turned out Philippines Silver dollars.

Following photo show an 1885 Manila Peseta since they were minted in Manila by the Spanish. Spain stopped using the Peseta when they went to the Euro. But in Puerto Rico which stopped using Spanish money including the Spanish Peseta over 100 years ago has not stopped using the word Peseta. They just started calling the US Quarter a Peseta.



When it comes to Rizal wanting more autonomy from Spain. they did the same thing in Puerto Rico which did get some autonomy. It only lasted a few months and ended with US invasion. Majority of politicians in Cuba wanted nothing to do with autonomy since they wanted independence. Rizal probably wanted to avoid a conflict like the devastating war in Cuba so he first asked for autonomy.


Someone forgot to mention the Philippines-American war. It seems the US entrance into the Philippines was more violent with much losses for the Filipinos. US went into Cuba to so called help them in there fight for independence. But the people in Cuba were winning, it was just a matter of time. Then unfortunately, when the US got a foot in Cuba and pushed the Spanish out they turned Cuba into a US quasi-colony. People of Cuba were not even allowed by US to fly there flag in there capital city for two years. In the end you know what happened there.

Philippines was the same thing. The Philippines would in time have been independent without US help. Some need to remember that many of the Spanish troops in the Philippines were made up of Filipino militia. In time most would have probably changed sides. Read once that Filipino politicians came up with the idea of the Philippines being a US protectorate but that was turned down by the US.

Why did the US give the Philippines its independence after fighting a war decades before to keep them. Remember, the Philippines was large, strategic and many resources. So why give them up. Answer was because the US did not want an influx of Filipinos in the US. They knew the Philippines population was increasing. The Philippines was not Guam or Puerto Rico which had a smaller more manageable population. You can even see it when they made the Philippines a Commonwealth. Only 50 Filipinos a year were allowed to migrate to the US while anyone from the US could migrate to the Philippines. A Filipino State would mean the House of Representatives would be at least 25% Filipino controlled. Do not think the old school of US politicians would go for that.

Jump to after WWII. Read once that the victors of the war decided to rebuild Japan has an industrial nation while leaving most of SE Asia including the Philippines has a supplier of raw resources to Japan. This explains alot.

And for anyone who has LinkTV, they had a program which explains why Latin America was so messed up. This could also explain the problems of the Philippines which is resource rich.

Watch this part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ

Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPa8m07txg&NR=1

Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3cJ5IsCt5Q&NR=1

Part four - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPRJjP7h4Q4&NR=1

Part five - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF3NSHDzYM&NR=1

Supposedly, the problems the US has today is due to the same things.



I just want to add that many of those Filipino WWII veterans who served under the U.S. military (since the Philippines was a commonwealth of the U.S.) were never given the benefits like the American WWII veterans from my understanding until just a few years ago. Unfortunately, many of these Filipino veterans have passed away, or will never fully benefit from those benefits in the short time that they have left to live. I'm not sure what the benefit package contains for them. Lastly, it may not take into consideration the interest accrued since 1945.

Basically after WWII the Philippines was left to solve its own problems. The U.S. did not want to spend money repairing the country, or compensate the Filipino veterans for their services which was under the U.S. military from my understanding. The Philippines was just a young independent nation. Perhaps the U.S. did not have the money after WWII, and had other concerns to deal with. But I feel that the Philippines was shortchanged. Basically if you're not going to be a part of the U.S., then why should U.S. money be used to help you? I think this is a little bit unfair. It's like leaving a wounded soldier on the battlefield to die since he or she is no longer useful.

But what I also want to say is that Filipinos especially after 1965 have benefited from its relationship with the U.S. since many Filipinos migrated to the U.S.. Many Americans also invest in the Philippines which helps the economy. The Philippines and the U.S. are good trading partners from my understanding. The Philippines relies on the U.S. for military protection also (at least that's what I think). I don't want to sound anti-American here, or paint America in a bad way.

This post has been edited by Prau123: Dec 27 2010, 03:35 AM
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trismegistos
post Dec 27 2010, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE (islander @ Dec 26 2010, 08:59 PM) *
Why did the US give the Philippines its independence after fighting a war decades before to keep them. Remember, the Philippines was large, strategic and many resources. So why give them up. Answer was because the US did not want an influx of Filipinos in the US. They knew the Philippines population was increasing. The Philippines was not Guam or Puerto Rico which had a smaller more manageable population. You can even see it when they made the Philippines a Commonwealth. Only 50 Filipinos a year were allowed to migrate to the US while anyone from the US could migrate to the Philippines. A Filipino State would mean the House of Representatives would be at least 25% Filipino controlled. Do not think the old school of US politicians would go for that.

Jump to after WWII. Read once that the victors of the war decided to rebuild Japan has an industrial nation while leaving most of SE Asia including the Philippines has a supplier of raw resources to Japan. This explains alot.

And for anyone who has LinkTV, they had a program which explains why Latin America was so messed up. This could also explain the problems of the Philippines which is resource rich.

Watch this part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ

Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPa8m07txg&NR=1

Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3cJ5IsCt5Q&NR=1

Part four - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPRJjP7h4Q4&NR=1

Part five - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF3NSHDzYM&NR=1

Supposedly, the problems the US has today is due to the same things.

beerchug.gif
The problem of the world is the Global Debt problem. Brought about by the greed of the financial speculators and the financial cartel, the new neocolonial masters based on Wallstreet of NY and London, the same cabal behind the Inter-Alpha group.

Their time is almost up as more and more people are being enlightened of the various machinations of these vile oligarchs.

When will the Philippines ever stand up away from the economic breast of the US and become a First world nation? It's sooner than we think. After China had surpassed the US, Philippines and the rest of SEA(Indios and other so called 3rd world nations) and including the West Indies will be the next. This is destiny. embarassedlaugh.gif

The sooner we weaned out from the US and IMF-WB the better. IMF and WB are synonymous to counter development of 3rd world countries.

http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/home/opin...-its-ownfinally
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Prau123
post Jan 25 2011, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE (Prau123 @ Dec 27 2010, 03:03 AM) *
I just want to add that many of those Filipino WWII veterans who served under the U.S. military (since the Philippines was a commonwealth of the U.S.) were never given the benefits like the American WWII veterans from my understanding until just a few years ago. Unfortunately, many of these Filipino veterans have passed away, or will never fully benefit from those benefits in the short time that they have left to live. I'm not sure what the benefit package contains for them. Lastly, it may not take into consideration the interest accrued since 1945.

Basically after WWII the Philippines was left to solve its own problems. The U.S. did not want to spend money repairing the country, or compensate the Filipino veterans for their services which was under the U.S. military from my understanding. The Philippines was just a young independent nation. Perhaps the U.S. did not have the money after WWII, and had other concerns to deal with. But I feel that the Philippines was shortchanged. Basically if you're not going to be a part of the U.S., then why should U.S. money be used to help you? I think this is a little bit unfair. It's like leaving a wounded soldier on the battlefield to die since he or she is no longer useful.

But what I also want to say is that Filipinos especially after 1965 have benefited from its relationship with the U.S. since many Filipinos migrated to the U.S.. Many Americans also invest in the Philippines which helps the economy. The Philippines and the U.S. are good trading partners from my understanding. The Philippines relies on the U.S. for military protection also (at least that's what I think). I don't want to sound anti-American here, or paint America in a bad way.


I just want to clarify that the U.S. did a lot of good for the Philippines. The U.S. were the major factor in winning WWII especially the Pacific theater, and without them, I don't think the Philippines and many Asian countries would be necessarily independent today. Because of their heavy involvement in WWII which cost several U.S. lives as well as economic losses for them, we should look at how the U.S. left the Philippines in a more fair and candid picture. There is a "give and take" situation here. The U.S. helped the Philippines and other Asian countries gain their freedom in WWII, so I suppose we should not expect too much from them including the compensation of the Filipino veterans, although it would be great if they were to be compensated.

This post has been edited by Prau123: Jan 25 2011, 02:12 AM
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datumarco
post Feb 17 2011, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (Prau123 @ Jan 25 2011, 02:01 AM) *
I just want to clarify that the U.S. did a lot of good for the Philippines. The U.S. were the major factor in winning WWII especially the Pacific theater, and without them, I don't think the Philippines and many Asian countries would be necessarily independent today. Because of their heavy involvement in WWII which cost several U.S. lives as well as economic losses for them, we should look at how the U.S. left the Philippines in a more fair and candid picture. There is a "give and take" situation here. The U.S. helped the Philippines and other Asian countries gain their freedom in WWII, so I suppose we should not expect too much from them including the compensation of the Filipino veterans, although it would be great if they were to be compensated.


the us helped but no really,

the filipinos were waging guerilla warfare and the japanese only had control over the cities and not the countryside.

The US didnt help asia free itself from the japanese becasue they were all good guys - they did it because they'd face extermination and coaquest if japan won. its war it - its always selfish.
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r2dav
post Mar 8 2011, 10:02 PM
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in actual fact, the Americans helped rebuild Japan and left the Philippines to themselves.

But back to the topic...
I still believe in the Philippines and her people. We fought off the Spanish, the Japanese and the Americans and after all that we still stand on our own two feet.
The problem in the Philippines is the ruling party. I'm hoping Noynoy proves to be the exception but we have not had any strong leadership since Marcos. I've been playing with the idea of setting up a "party" outside of the Philippines with the purpose of bringing proper leadership and change into the Philippines. Like the OP said nobody is willing to talk about the issue, but if provide a sense of purpose maybe it will change. Why do we send money back if we dont want change?
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kermit_criminal
post Jul 25 2011, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE (Confused43 @ Dec 18 2010, 11:07 AM) *
I'm not educated in Rizal, and I'm not even Filipino, but don't give up. Take some lessons from American history. Yeah sure we have developed a national cult for independence based on Greco-Roman ideals, ideals imitated in the Philippines btw. But keep in mind, the great statesman first advocated reform within the British Empire first. He wanted what is today a Canadian-like government within the empire. Read up on the Albany Plan. It was only after this idea failed he jumped on the independence bandwagon. It isn't at all unusual for great statesmen to advocate for reform first.

And just because the Philippines is impoverished doesn't mean it isn't a great nation. I've always been captivated with Filipino history, like in modern times when Cory Aquino took power after Marcos. I couldn't name you a single Vietnamese, Korean, or even Japanese leader, but I know more than a few Filipino leaders, and before my stepmom had zero connections with the country. I think that says something.

First of all the Philippines is a fascinated blend of Malay, Arabic, Spanish, and American culture. In a weird way, it is the legacy of the "American empire" which in and of itself is fascinating. I mean, there are 294829483 former British colonies, but how many actually have an American heritage. Filipinos don't just speak English, they speak American English, that's pretty cool and unique.

The same can be said for being Spain's imprint in East Asia. And, I haven't even mentioned the Arabic influence. Some familes are as likely to have Hashemite heritage in the Visayas as Spanish.

But take all of this away and you have an interesting local culture. I've always wondered why this wasn't explored more. Like originally was the Philippines Hindu or Buddhist before the arrival of the Muslims? Like Indonesia?

Why use the Roman alphabet for Tagalog and other Filipino languages? Why not use Babayin or even the Javanese script, Hanacaraka, which is just beautiful, or even (though probably not popular in these times), Arabic, as in Malaysia in some places?

I've always looked upon the Philippines as one of the countries with great potential. I see others in this list too like Zimbabwe, Russia, Vietnam, etc. There's no reason it cannot be a powerhouse again. It is ideally situated next door to China, as a bridge to Europe and Latin America (Spain) and the United States to the east. And, the American heritage gives it a unique connection to neighboring Anglic countries such as India and Australia as well. You just have to have faith in yourselves.

I think the Philippines should actually take a page from China. China created a series of SEZs (special economic zones) starting with Shenzhen and made these strong, economic city-states not unlike Singapore. Eventually these grew and grew the Chinese economy to where it is today. The Philippines could start off with an area such as Makati for one of these SEZs, it is one of the few strong growth areas I can think of. I also believe Clark is an experiment in this endeavor. I also believe the hot climate plays a role. Hot weather can make people lethargic and tired. I've noticed that most of the world's economic giants are in cold areas, most of the poor are tropical. The Philippine government should try an economic experiment in a cool area, such as the temperate city of Baguio and see if economic growth can be stimulated there and if the weather is a connection.

Some ideas.


good point about the weather. the only tripical nations that are doing well either have tons of oil, very few people, or have the potential to be a powerhouse because they have so many people or land (india and brazil). I noticed that when i lived in cali i did not care about my studies, i just wanted to chill. when i came back to chicago all i wanted to do was study so i can get the hell out of there some day.
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crabdonut
post Jul 26 2011, 01:01 AM
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Unless the TC actually had a hand in making the Philippines better, what is there to give up on?

This post has been edited by crabdonut: Jul 26 2011, 01:01 AM
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nenabunena
post Oct 21 2011, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE (YasukeKomiya @ Dec 18 2010, 12:35 PM) *
We who are educated in the matter of Rizal know that he really wanted the Philippines to become a province of Spain. Independence, he mentioned, was the only alternative people would take if Spain refused reforms in the colony. He only said this as a statement never really advocating independence cause deep down he loved Spain (probably more than the Philippines and China where his ancestors came from). If our supposed hero advocated for our country to be a province what does that tell? It says that our country wasn't worth $hit to be a real nation and that it should depend on some other govt. miles away to give it any purpose. What kind of @$$hole would be willing to let his homeland just be a province to some goddamn foreigners instead of asking for independence. Do Okinawans want to be part of Japan? No they want independence because culturally and ethnically they are not Japanese. Now fast forward, we have independence yet our govt. is a failure (we are a fu-king joke in Asia where things are progressing whether economically or socially) and people leave it for greener pastures. Sure they send money back but its for the family. Our govt. doesn't give a fu-k in seeing the whole nation prosper, they only give a damn about filling their own goddamn pockets. The people may be no better as they just either complain or bring each other down instead of collectively getting $hit done. We learned individualism from the West and we are doing a fu-king fine job in doing that. Going back to Rizal he said if they can't be a province of Spain they could at least emulate Spain and fully Hispanicize the archipelago. Apparently our native culture along with the nation isn't worth $hit to at least be mixed, we must be as he advocated the fu-king Spain in Asia. Even today our "multicultural" society seems to be just people who either want to copy Spain, America, or even Korea for some reason. I don't mind foreign influence (nearly every country on Earth is like that some more than others) but when people only try to put in bits of the native culture its sad. People like to say we are mixed but in reality it is really people just focusing on one aspect. People send money from overseas to the Philippines only to comeback and see that its still the same $hithole they left. Scientists, engineers, doctors, authors, and ect. don't come back to help, sure the govt. is an obstacle but still they could at least fu-king try or at least make some effort to the help the homeland. I want to believe our country is worth saving but if people like Rizal, our "national hero" and advocate of Tagalog, in the end just wanted our homeland to be some fu-king province and wrote his last words in Spanish it seems like it doesn't matter. I'm in a serious crisis and I have no friends to talk to (all the Pinoys and Pinays I know don't like to talk much about the Philippines, again another reason to see how worthless our country is) and I could use probably some wiser persons advice.


I'm feeling despondent myself about the state of the nation, I feel like giving up on the country & the people. The problem isn't just the government, it's the people themselves. They have low standards, they never learn from past mistakes, they don't evolve, they take no pride in their history & culture, even the educated ones are highly ignorant, & lastly everyone is just COMPLACENT. We are killing ourselves.

I have no issues against Rizal, perhaps he was just being realistic & objective about the state of things. Perhaps we truly weren't ready for independence. There is a right time for everything.

Other cultures fought for & won their own independence, with us, it was given to us. People who have won their independence have experiences losses & gained certain wisdom & determination to improve their country. I can't say the same thing about us.

Look at Edsa Revolution, it took Ninoy's assassination to galvanize the country. You think things would change wouldn't you? Yet what happened? Everyone returned to their complacency once again. We never learn as a people. Look at where the Marcoses are now?

Let me ask you this, how many educated Filipinos that you know are culturally educated? How many of them read books more than the usual novelties of present? Look at our films, they were better before, yet today, look at it. Why has it not improved?

I-tatagalog ko ito kc ayaw ko malaman ng mga dayuhan. Bakit ang baba ng IQ natin? Hindi naman dahil ipinaganak na bobo ang mga Pilipino eh. Ang IQ naman kc base lang yan sa isang klaseng talino, ang talino ng modernity. Yun lang naman yun eh. Kaylangan natin ang ganyang talino para umunlad. Hindi natin iniisip kasi ang kinabukasan natin pagkatapos ng 50 na taon. Forward thinking ba? Dapat ang resorsa natin itutok sa edukasyon, sa cultura at bigyan ng tunay na Pinoy Pride. Hindi yung mga pekeng nakiki-ride on lang sa iba diba.

We need to get out of our complacency. have you ever tried to change things but the complacency & crab mentality of everyone around you is bringing you down? That's why we are in the state we are in. It's high time the government took note of this. The media is a powerful tool to influence the collective masses. & they need to use that power & inject some positive attitude & new alternative cultural mindset into the people.

This post has been edited by nenabunena: Oct 21 2011, 05:25 PM
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r2dav
post Nov 9 2011, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE (nenabunena @ Oct 22 2011, 09:20 AM) *
I'm feeling despondent myself about the state of the nation, I feel like giving up on the country & the people. The problem isn't just the government, it's the people themselves. They have low standards, they never learn from past mistakes, they don't evolve, they take no pride in their history & culture, even the educated ones are highly ignorant, & lastly everyone is just COMPLACENT. We are killing ourselves.

I have no issues against Rizal, perhaps he was just being realistic & objective about the state of things. Perhaps we truly weren't ready for independence. There is a right time for everything.

Other cultures fought for & won their own independence, with us, it was given to us. People who have won their independence have experiences losses & gained certain wisdom & determination to improve their country. I can't say the same thing about us.

Look at Edsa Revolution, it took Ninoy's assassination to galvanize the country. You think things would change wouldn't you? Yet what happened? Everyone returned to their complacency once again. We never learn as a people. Look at where the Marcoses are now?

Let me ask you this, how many educated Filipinos that you know are culturally educated? How many of them read books more than the usual novelties of present? Look at our films, they were better before, yet today, look at it. Why has it not improved?

I-tatagalog ko ito kc ayaw ko malaman ng mga dayuhan. Bakit ang baba ng IQ natin? Hindi naman dahil ipinaganak na bobo ang mga Pilipino eh. Ang IQ naman kc base lang yan sa isang klaseng talino, ang talino ng modernity. Yun lang naman yun eh. Kaylangan natin ang ganyang talino para umunlad. Hindi natin iniisip kasi ang kinabukasan natin pagkatapos ng 50 na taon. Forward thinking ba? Dapat ang resorsa natin itutok sa edukasyon, sa cultura at bigyan ng tunay na Pinoy Pride. Hindi yung mga pekeng nakiki-ride on lang sa iba diba.

We need to get out of our complacency. have you ever tried to change things but the complacency & crab mentality of everyone around you is bringing you down? That's why we are in the state we are in. It's high time the government took note of this. The media is a powerful tool to influence the collective masses. & they need to use that power & inject some positive attitude & new alternative cultural mindset into the people.


it's not that we are stupid... there's just no motivation to excel. Very few, especially in my parents generation, want to be the best they can be. They are content with living their life. not that it's a bad thing. it just leads to the filipino stereotype.

But you are spot on about our complacency. it's a way of life. i don't think the government will be able to do anyhing about it. there are too many people that look out for themselves for them to have any serious impact.
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