Laos's Dam making Vietnam jumping up & down., what happen to 1977 treaty of friendship? Options

[LonelyKitty]

Oh really? what about your Son La Dam, ain't that suppose to make Red Delta lifeless. What about three gorges dams, ain't that suppose to make the delta lifeless. Chinese already built 4 dams on the upper mekong and how come mekong delta is not lifeless. You need to go back to basic education before opening your mouth. Thank you very much.

Sayaboulies is over 1000 km away and the dam is not stop water from flowing south. Plus Vietnam mekong delta don't just get water from Laos, you have rainfall, water from china, cambodia and Thailand. The one should complain the most should be Thailand and Cambodia and not boat children like you guys.

nothing so fanciful , yeah it isn't "completely" lifeless, but less life for sure, according to the research that f dam will reduce soil percent in the Vietnam's Mekong Delta to nearly 0% and that'll make our Delta become lifeless so it also affect our arg and rice export, we have no choice but to prevent it happen at all cost.

[BaeLai]

nothing so fanciful , yeah it isn't "completely" lifeless, but less life for sure, according to the research that f dam will reduce soil percent in the Vietnam's Mekong Delta to nearly 0% and that'll make our Delta become lifeless so it also affect our arg and rice export, we have no choice but to prevent it happen at all cost.

Watch this video. It benefit many lives in Laos and also future development of power source we needed to build bussiness and enterprise in the near future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxtnTHSQwfc

[BaeLai]

Here's another video NamNgum dam- Very beautiful clear torquel blue water http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8XWQsvwYpU&NR=1

[Buddhalove]

^
^
LMAO! Can you please stop trying to manipulate the claims? Let's not make anything worst then it is already.

Thailand even claimed part of South Vietnam as their former territory, and these Geow are doing the same to Laos. What a joke!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0rlSexwyGU

[BaeLai]

Thailand even claimed part of South Vietnam as their former territory, and these Geow are doing the same to Laos. What a joke!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0rlSexwyGU

Not sure if its just the Southern Viet who is mad about this dam project. But from what I know is that usually these Southern Viet Nammers always have an issue with everyone. They are even known in Nothern and Central Vietnam how these Southern attitude are so not polite. I'm sure not all are like that...

[Buddhalove]

nothing so fanciful , yeah it isn't "completely" lifeless, but less life for sure, according to the research that f dam will reduce soil percent in the Vietnam's Mekong Delta to nearly 0% and that'll make our Delta become lifeless so it also affect our arg and rice export, we have no choice but to prevent it happen at all cost.

How come you guys are so scared to say anything to Chinese, when they already built 4 dams on the upper mekong. Chicken!

[BaeLai]

How come you guys are so scared to say anything to Chinese, when they already built 4 dams on the upper mekong. Chicken!

I almost forgot to mention about dam in China that is already in operation. Thanks Buddhalove!

[nguyenpride]

Laos economy is rely on all those damns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xqpqn-6x3M

This post has been edited by nguyenpride: Mar 12 2011, 01:39 PM

[TaksinTheGreat]

Actually It doesn't take much brain to figure out that it's a map of French and British gradual taking over some countries in mainland South East Asia. Western powers get their hands on any region that they can get their hands on, typically would be land closed to the sea, because most of them came by boat. They came in small number compared to the native people, but gradually outsmarted Vietnamese rulers and took over the whole country. Sip Song Chu Tai claimed by both Siam and Vietnam, and French finally forced Siam to give up.
You have to remember Xigon, scholar wanabe. Laos and part of Cambodia were part of Siam. They were under foreign occupation with semi-autonomous. Foreign policy was under Siamese administrative. By attacking Laos was like attacking Siam. French, particularly Auguste Pavie helped ruler of Luang Prabang fought off Black Flag bandits who had been harassing Northern Laos . King Oun Kham decided to place Luang Prabang under French protection, which greatly upsetting Siam. In Paknam incident, French finally forced Siam to recognize Laos on the left bank as part of French Indochina, while controlling issan till these day.

Give me a favorite, take down your sh!tty map and stop acting like you’re an expert of Lao subject. Thank you very much.

Black Flag Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Flag_Army

Auguste Pavie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_Pavie

Paknam Incident (French Vs Siam)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paknam_incident

Well said! What you said is the geopolitical reality of Southeast Asia in the 19th century.

I would like to add a few things.

First, French maps to claim Laos territory as part of Vietnam cannot be trusted. Westerners are critical of placing Laos as part of Vietnam when Laos was independent of Vietnam. King Oun Kam even said that Laos was never dependent on Vietnam. So, we should be skeptical of French maps. Also, Lao people "TREASURED THEIR SENSE OF INDEPENDENCE FROM VIETNAM"



The French were very anxious to annex Laos, so they used DUBIOUS Vietnamese documents to justify their colonization. The Key word here is DUBIOUS (doubtful). We cannot trust Vietnamese documents that French used to justify colonizing Laos on behalf of Vietnam.




Secondly, while Minh Mang did annex some parts of Laos, aka Xiengkhouang, it was only a FEW principalities in Laos. These parts were only the FRINGES of Laos. Keyword: FRINGES. This means Vietnamese conquest did not penetrate very far into Laos. Vietnam can only conquer the EASTERN FRINGES/EDGES of Laos.






Third, although Minh Mang built an empire that included Laos and Cambodia, it didn’t last. Siam and Cambodia inflict defeats on Vietnamese, and Cambodia became independent from Vietnam again. Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia only lasted 5 years.



After the failure of Siam (Thailand) to regain hegemony over Cambodia, a Vietnamese-installed queen reigned on the Cambodian throne as her country increasingly came under the yoke of Vietnam. Vietnamese oppression caused a general uprising in 1841, with Cambodians slaughtering their Vietnamese overlords and others, soliciting help from Siam, and requesting Cambodian prince Ang Duong (1796-1860) to return from exile in Bangkok and become king. Siamese king Rama III (d. 1851) sent an army that installed Ang Duong on the Cambodian throne (1841). Vietnam, which had more than 50 garrisons throughout Cambodia, waged a savage four-year war against rural insurgents and Siamese troops, sustaining defeat in general but refusing to withdraw from the country. Finally, in 1845, both sides agreed to a compromise peace, which place Cambodia under joint Siamese and Vietnamese protection but with a Siamese predominance. In 1848, Ang Duong was formally crowned Cambodia's king.


Siam also helped to free XiengKhouang. Both Cambodia and XiengKhouang became vassals again. Xiengkhouang kingdom was RESTORED. Minh Mang empire fell apart.



Conclusion: Can’t trust Vietnamese documents and French maps. Laos was independent of Vietnam. Vietnam can only conquer Eastern fringe/edges of Laos. Minh Mang empire fell apart shortly after it was built. Minh Mang empire was short-lived. XiengKhouang and Cambodia became independent as vassals again before the French came.


This post has been edited by TaksinTheGreat: Mar 12 2011, 07:59 PM

[VietnamNo1]

Thailand even claimed part of South Vietnam as their former territory, and these Geow are doing the same to Laos. What a joke!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0rlSexwyGU

Here is the history of Houaphanh province:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houaphanh_Province
The province was home of the Bon Man kingdom since 14th century. Following a Vietnamese invasion in 1478, it became Tran Ninh province of Dai Viet kingdom with the capital at Sam Chau (present-day Sam Nuea). It remained a Vietnamese outpost territory until the 19th century when ownership was switched to Laos during the French Colonial period.

So you tell us to not believe in Wikipedia but your own mouth?

This post has been edited by VietnamNo1: Mar 12 2011, 01:38 PM

[VietnamNo1]

How come you guys are so scared to say anything to Chinese, when they already built 4 dams on the upper mekong. Chicken!

Nobody said anything about the dams here we're discussing about the lands...Lilzz stpid fked is the one who created this thread to start a flame... Ok stop here

This post has been edited by VietnamNo1: Mar 12 2011, 01:43 PM

[Buddhalove]

nothing so fanciful , yeah it isn't "completely" lifeless, but less life for sure, according to the research that f dam will reduce soil percent in the Vietnam's Mekong Delta to nearly 0% and that'll make our Delta become lifeless so it also affect our arg and rice export, we have no choice but to prevent it happen at all cost.

You talk yourself out of your arss again. I would be more worry about soil not reaching Mekong delta, when Hun Sen block Mekong around Phnom Penh area or Tonal Sap, because it's only hundreds km away. Mekong in Sayaboulie is pretty narrow, some areas you can just walk across.


Level of water in the river also depend on the rainfall. I'm all for dams because without dams, too much fresh water would be wasted due to the fast flow of water downstream and out of the river. If there were no dams on the river at all, the river would most-likely be lower than it is now. It acts as the flood control as well.

Benefit of dams

Dams controls flooding
Generally speaking dams produce inexpensive and clean power.
Renewable energy source, because the water is not destroyed by passing through the dam. Less dependent on blood oil.
If needed, dams can be shut down instantly, where thermal plants take hours, and nuclear plants can take days!

[BaeLai]

Here is the history of Houaphanh province:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houaphanh_Province
The province was home of the Bon Man kingdom since 14th century. Following a Vietnamese invasion in 1478, it became Tran Ninh province of Dai Viet kingdom with the capital at Sam Chau (present-day Sam Nuea). It remained a Vietnamese outpost territory until the 19th century when ownership was switched to Laos during the French Colonial period.

So you tell us to not believe in Wikipedia but your own mouth?

Nia and Buddhalove are right. Vietnam tryed many times to manipulate Laos territory and history. Why can't Vietnam just leave us alone and let us decide on our own development? Vietnam is ahead of Laos on bussiness and development. Don't you think Vietnam should focus on that part then worrying about Laos more? Laos people are suffering and we need to find ways to develope and help ourselves, not you're country with 40 years of nothing.

[Buddhalove]

Here is the history of Houaphanh province:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houaphanh_Province
The province was home of the Bon Man kingdom since 14th century. Following a Vietnamese invasion in 1478, it became Tran Ninh province of Dai Viet kingdom with the capital at Sam Chau (present-day Sam Nuea). It remained a Vietnamese outpost territory until the 19th century when ownership was switched to Laos during the French Colonial period.

So you tell us to not believe in Wikipedia but your own mouth?

Dude, I have no problem if you ganna call Hougpanh province Tran Ninh or whatever, but i have problem with Xigon map, which included Viengchan and Sayaboulie as Tran Ninh.

[XigonCongchua]

I've already made a note below that map that the original Trấn Ninh should only included Huophan and Xiengkhoang and the Trấn Ninh in that map was more extensive than expected. But I guess trolls have no reading skills and they always act upon emotion.

Let me recap everything here,

Lao trolls: Yên Bái, Lai Châu, Sơn La, yadaa yadaa (basically the entire mountainous region of Northwest Vietnam) belonged to Laos and the French gave it to Vietnam
Me: Nope, they belonged to Đại Việt since the Lê Dynasty. French didn't give an inch of Lao land to Vietnam. If anything, they gave land of Vietnam to Laos.
Lao trolls: Look look. Viets are trying to claim our land. We're the victims here. Viets hate us. What did we do them? I don't know why they hate us. Look how Viet members are abusing us now.
Me: Huh? Weren't you the ones that looked for trouble by making stupid claims about Vietnamese communists stealing your land first?

Did you know that Son La,Lai Chau,Lao Cai and apart of Yen Bai used to belong to Laos? It was taken away from us by Vietnam after the Communist HoChiMinh and his Viet Cong army into Laos during the during the last french colonization, then later taken more during the China/Vietnam border wars.

Gosh, I never knew Lao members here were such a bunch of cry babies. They go start troubles with other ethnics, and when proven wrong, they act as if they were victims. It must be hard for Thai members to have these individuals in their chat harassing them and crying at the same times.

@TaksinTheGreat: Maps and information from various sources would give you virtually the same thing, it wasn't just the Westerners. It's no mystery that Laos in the 19th century was like a powerless nation lying in the middle of the Tug-of-War between Siam and Vietnam. Much of Laos land was constantly occupied or dominated by either Siam or Vietnam. Siam and Vietnam often fought each other over control of Cambodian land and Lao land, though majority of the conflicts occurred on Cambodian land rather than Lao land because Cambodian land was more fertilized and bear more economic value. If the Westerners never arrived, Vietnam and Thailand (Siam) would have shared borders today. Laos and Cambodia might have been gone. I'm only speaking of historical truth.

Btw, there were several "Lao" kingdoms at that period and their territories were not the same as modern Laos. Vientiane and Luang Prabang were not under Vietnamese administration for the most part (which I can see why some would criticize the inclusions of "Laos" under Vietnam), but a large part of mountainous areas in northeast Laos were.

P/S: That map I posted in the beginning was compiled by Princeton University from various sources for your information. And your arguments about French wanting to include a large part of Laos in Vietnam so they could occupy Laos is invalid because 1)The French hadn't occupy an inch of Vietnam yet at the time of the map, 2)Non-French maps gave similar boundaries.

This post has been edited by XigonCongchua: Mar 12 2011, 11:50 PM

[BaeLai]

I've already made a note below that map that the original Trấn Ninh should only included Huophan and Xiengkhoang and the Trấn Ninh in that map was more extensive than expected. But I guess trolls have no reading skills and they always act upon emotion.

Let me recap everything here,

Lao trolls: Yên Bái, Lai Châu, Sơn La, yadaa yadaa (basically the entire mountainous region of Northwest Vietnam) belonged to Laos and the French gave it to Vietnam
Me: Nope, they belonged to Đại Việt since the Lê Dynasty. French didn't give an inch of Lao land to Vietnam. If anything, they gave land of Vietnam to Laos.
Lao trolls: Look look. Viets are trying to claim our land. We're the victims here. Viets hate us. What did we do them? I don't know why they hate us. Look how Viet members are abusing us now.
Me: Huh? Weren't you the ones that looked for trouble by making stupid claims about Vietnamese communists stealing your land first?




Gosh, I never knew Lao members here were such a bunch of cry babies. They go start troubles with other ethnics, and when proven wrong, they act as if they were victims. It must be hard for Thai members to have these individuals in their chat harassing them and crying at the same times.

We're just explaining our view and share ouru thought about the Dam. And why Vietnam always against Laos project without them being apart of it. You see, Vietnam is trying to be nosey in Laotian affair and internally just by reading that news articles the Laos said it was "Laos secret to know." You see Vietnam wants to butt in our own plan and development so they can keep us poor and relied on Vietnam instead. But now many Laotian realized that it was only for Vietnam gain, not Laos in the region.

Vietnam is playing a very dangerious game nowadays. And should think twice for harrassing us or medeling with our internal economic affairs.

[XigonCongchua]

I don't give a dime about your dam, okay? Don't try to be an attention whore with me. We were only here arguing in the beginning because you made bogus claims about Sơn La, Lai Châu, Lào Cai, Yên Bái being part of Laos before Vietnamese communists took it.

[BaeLai]

I don't give a dime about your dam, okay? Don't try to be an attention whore with me. We were only here arguing in the beginning because you made bogus claims about Sơn La, Lai Châu, Lào Cai, Yên Bái being part of Laos before Vietnamese communists took it.

It's not bogus. Even some Chines scholar agree that it used to belong to Laos in the past. Vietnam historian just over rated the territory claim just to make it bigger on the map.

I'm just telling you how it is Xigon. Please don't get upset with me for what I know. I just wanted to share ours.

[XigonCongchua]

A map published in 1829 by Pierre M. Lapie



Another one published in 1838 by Father Jean-Louis Taberd


Jean-Louis Taberd was a priest and a missionary. He had no political interest. His only interest was to spread Christianity to the world. He was harshly persecuted by Vietnamese kings. With that being said, he absolutely got no motive to falsely depict the boundary of Vietnam in his map repertoire.


P/S: I got to say this in case somebody moans something like "Can't trust French maps because French so desperately wanted to takeover Laos that they included Laos in Vietnam (which they had already controlled)". Well, that argument is only valid if the French had already had some sort of control or influence over Vietnam. May I remind you all that these maps were "published" in 1829 and 1838, at which time the French had absolutely no control over any inch of Vietnamese land yet. The first political Vietnamese-French conflict occurred under the reign of King Thiệu Trị when the Vietnamese king refused to let the French have further access over trade in the region and later, after a naval fire, closed down all ports and forbade any trade with Westerners in the country. Conflicts further escalated under the reign of King Tự Đức and that was when the French determined to take over Vietnam. These maps were drawn long before those political conflict occurred.

This post has been edited by XigonCongchua: Mar 12 2011, 04:27 PM

[Buddhalove]

Xigon, take your ugly map down, those are not legitimated document for you to go around.