Ancient Artifacts, Ancient Paintings & More Options

[thumbsUp]

Taken from Lichsuvn.info

khiên này có trong sách Mỹ thuật việt Nam-TRANH CO VIET NAM (ANCIENT AND TRADITIONAL PAINTINGS OF VIETNAM), pages 68-69.
("Triumphal return of the military mandarin -- At the end of the 18th century (Doc Loi - Quynh - Nghe An)"
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14105&stc=1
Notice how different we dressed before 19th century.

khiên hình thuỗn dài có hoa văn rồng thời Lý
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14030&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14032&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14033&stc=1

ngoài ra còn có cái làm bằng mây, rất đẹp
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14102&stc=1

có cả khiên tròn cũng cực tinh xảo, trưng bàyđấu giá bở nhà Southeby Newyork
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14076&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14075&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14074&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14073&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14072&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14076&stc=1

This post has been edited by thumbsUp: Jul 3 2011, 03:34 AM

[XigonCongchua]

They actually bear similarity to áo ngũ thân in the 19th century. The major difference is that áo ngũ thân doesn't show the "inner shirt"


You can see the strongest similarity in the 3rd row, 3rd person from the left, walking in red.



This post has been edited by XigonCongchua: Mar 21 2011, 02:03 AM

[thumbsUp]

They actually bear similarity to áo ngũ thân in the 19th-20th century. You can see the strongest similarity in the 3rd row, 3rd person from the left, walking in red. The major difference is that áo ngũ thân doesn't show the "inner shirt"

The difference is the outer shirt/coat style.

It went from these:



To this:


Was it possible that we had gotten influence from Qing dynasty also?
It would explain the change in the outer shirt and the shirt collar and the similarity of Ao Dai to Qipao.

[DOUBLEMINT]

Was it possible that we had gotten influence from Qing dynasty also?
It would explain the change in the outer shirt and the shirt collar and the similarity of Ao Dai to Qipao.

Its possible.This painting is called 《安南國王至避暑山莊》 from 《十全敷藻圖冊》.Its about the king of vietnam went to beijing and asked the Qing emperor's permission to change viet clothing to Qing clothing.The emperor was very happy ,he even wrote a peom about it:《安南國王阮光平乞遵天朝衣冠》.


This post has been edited by DOUBLEMINT: Mar 21 2011, 02:23 AM

[XigonCongchua]

Its possible.This painting is called 《安南國王至避暑山莊》 from 《十全敷藻圖冊》.Its about the king of vietnam went to beijing and asked the Qing emperor's permission to change viet clothing to Qing clothing.The emperor was very happy ,he even wrote a peom about it:《安南國王阮光平乞遵天朝衣冠》.

That doesn't make sense. The Kings of Vietnam at that time period were Lê folks and China recognized that. People under Lê rule always wore áo tứ thân. The Nguyễn folks were just "lords" and they wouldn't be able to have ambassadors to China representing "Annam". Only Lê kings would send ambassadors. Furthermore, Nguyễn folks were never recognized as "kings" of the country within Vietnam or China.

This post has been edited by XigonCongchua: Mar 21 2011, 02:34 AM

[DOUBLEMINT]

That doesn't make sense. The Kings of Vietnam at that time period were Lê folks and China recognized that. People under Lê rule always wore áo tứ thân. The Nguyễn folks were just "lords" and they wouldn't be able to have ambassadors to China representing "Annam". Only Lê kings would send ambassadors. Furthermore, Nguyễn folks were never recognized as "kings" of the country within Vietnam or China.

According to the title of that painting,its not an ambassador,its the king himself.And the Qing emperor in the painting is Qianlong.So are you sure Lê was the only king during the Qianlong period ?Im sorry i dont know that much about vietnam history,I was simply quoting from the internet.

This post has been edited by DOUBLEMINT: Mar 21 2011, 02:44 AM

[XigonCongchua]

According to the title of that painting,its not an ambassador,its the king himself.And the Qing emperor in the painting is Qianlong.So are you sure Lê was the only king during the Qianlong period ?Im sorry i dont know that much about vietnam history,I was simply quoting from the internet.

If that painting was indeed in the 1750s then I'm certain about what I said. The Lê dynasty lasted until 1788.

There were Trịnh lords (from the Trịnh clan) and Nguyễn lords (from the Nguyễn clan) fighting each other, but officially they both were "subjects" to Lê king. Ancestors of the Nguyễn clan was actually a loyal subject to Lê kings who assisted the Lê when the Mạc took the throne. So both Nguyễn lords and Trịnh lords descended from people who wanted to assist the Lê.

The Chinese emperor recognized the Lê as kings of Vietnam, so it wouldn't make sense if any Chinese emperor accepted ambassadors from Nguyễn lords and refer to them as "King of Annam". If that was Qianlong, then the same Chinese emperor also sent a large army down with the reason "to help the Lê clan protect their throne" when Nguyễn Huệ was about to overthrow the Lê-Trịnh regime. So it didn't make sense to me that Chinese emperor would accept ambassadors from Nguyễn lords as if they were sent by Vietnamese "king".