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Ancient Artifacts, Ancient Paintings & More
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post Mar 20 2011, 03:05 AM
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Taken from Lichsuvn.info

khiên này có trong sách Mỹ thuật việt Nam-TRANH CO VIET NAM (ANCIENT AND TRADITIONAL PAINTINGS OF VIETNAM), pages 68-69.
("Triumphal return of the military mandarin -- At the end of the 18th century (Doc Loi - Quynh - Nghe An)"
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14105&stc=1
Notice how different we dressed before 19th century.

khiên h́nh thuỗn dài có hoa văn rồng thời Lư
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14030&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14032&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14033&stc=1

ngoài ra c̣n có cái làm bằng mây, rất đẹp
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14102&stc=1

có cả khiên tṛn cũng cực tinh xảo, trưng bàyđấu giá bở nhà Southeby Newyork
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14076&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14075&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14074&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14073&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14072&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14076&stc=1

This post has been edited by thumbsUp: Jul 3 2011, 03:34 AM
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XigonCongchua
post Mar 21 2011, 04:11 AM
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Pardon me but I would highly disagree if you call these Qing clothes just because of something that look remotely like the Manchu collars to you.


Not any sign of collar originate from the Manchu and furthermore, the "collars" you see in that picture are more like from inner shirt




Not like the Manchu collar which is from outer shirt





This post has been edited by XigonCongchua: Mar 21 2011, 04:30 AM
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post Mar 21 2011, 04:28 AM
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QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 04:11 AM) *
Pardon me but I would highly disagree if you call these Qing clothes just because of something that look remotely like the Manchu collars to you.


Not like the Manchu collar which is from outer shirt


I guess you can't see what I'm seeing about the collar. icon_neutral.gif

@DOUBLEMINT
Okay now I'm confused.

I didn't know Ming had that collar style. I thought it was a Machurian influence.


Hmm. It looks like she's wearing an Ao Dai with Ao Menh Phu jacket.
Got any more pictures?



This post has been edited by thumbsUp: Mar 21 2011, 04:33 AM
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DOUBLEMINT
post Mar 21 2011, 04:55 AM
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QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 04:28 AM) *
I guess you can't see what I'm seeing about the collar. icon_neutral.gif

@DOUBLEMINT
Okay now I'm confused.

I didn't know Ming had that collar style. I thought it was a Machurian influence.

Hmm. It looks like she's wearing an Ao Dai with Ao Menh Phu jacket.
Got any more pictures?


As I said,manchurians didnt have collar at first.

Ming clothing






This post has been edited by DOUBLEMINT: Mar 21 2011, 05:06 AM
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post Mar 21 2011, 06:08 AM
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QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 04:55 AM) *
As I said,manchurians didnt have collar at first.

Ming clothing






Yeah.. Ming style seems similar to Ao Dai.

Is it possible for you to get a full body photo? One that shows
the slits on the shirt, and show whether or not pants or skirts were worn?

BTW, what exactly does this say?
越南
主條目:越服


1714年日本出版的《世界人物圖卷》中的越南婦女及小孩。
越南古稱交趾(中國稱作「安南」),西元968年,丁部領建立丁朝(大瞿越國),開始成為獨立的封建王朝,兩年後(970年)自稱皇帝。在服飾上,尤其是宮廷禮服,皇帝、大臣的朝服,幾乎就是中國漢族王朝宮廷禮服,皇帝、大臣朝服的翻版,試以越南末代皇帝保大所着之弁冠、兗服來看,與明朝宗藩服飾如出一轍,不過比之明朝皇帝,其造型顯得小一號而已。以漢族帝王的正式禮服——冕旒袞服為例,明代皇帝的冕旒是十二旒的,越南是六旒的。 滿清入主中原後的兩百多年間,與中國南疆山水相連的越南,仍然較完好的保存著明式衣冠,從十九世紀末二十世紀初法國殖民者在越南存留下來的許多珍貴照片和大量的歷史資料可以明確的反映出這一點,有一個典型的例子就是,1898年駐雲南府(今昆明)的法國領事方蘇雅(Auguste François,1857年8月20日—1935年7月4日)所着龍袍的照片,被許多人誤認為是中國皇帝的龍袍或者中國戲曲中的裝束,實際上,方蘇雅所著之服,乃是越南皇帝的朝服,從造型看,和明代宗藩、大臣的朝服一般無二。

I tried google translating but I couldn't understand it fully.
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DOUBLEMINT
post Mar 21 2011, 06:31 AM
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QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 06:08 AM) *
Yeah.. Ming style seems similar to Ao Dai.

Is it possible for you to get a full body photo? One that shows
the slits on the shirt, and show whether or not pants or skirts were worn?

BTW, what exactly does this say?
越南
主條目:越服


1714年日本出版的《世界人物圖卷》中的越南婦女及小孩。
越南古稱交趾(中國稱作「安南」),西元968年,丁部領建立丁朝(大瞿越國),開始成為獨立的封建王朝,兩年後(970年)自稱皇帝。在服飾上,尤其是宮廷禮服,皇帝、大臣的朝服,幾乎就是中國漢族王朝宮廷禮服,皇帝、大臣朝服的翻版,試以越南末代皇帝保大所着之弁冠、兗服來看,與明朝宗藩服飾如出一轍,不過比之明朝皇帝,其造型顯得小一號而已。以漢族帝王的正式禮服——冕旒袞服為例,明代皇帝的冕旒是十二旒的,越南是六旒的。 滿清入主中原後的兩百多年間,與中國南疆山水相連的越南,仍然較完好的保存著明式衣冠,從十九世紀末二十世紀初法國殖民者在越南存留下來的許多珍貴照片和大量的歷史資料可以明確的反映出這一點,有一個典型的例子就是,1898年駐雲南府(今昆明)的法國領事方蘇雅(Auguste François,1857年8月20日—1935年7月4日)所着龍袍的照片,被許多人誤認為是中國皇帝的龍袍或者中國戲曲中的裝束,實際上,方蘇雅所著之服,乃是越南皇帝的朝服,從造型看,和明代宗藩、大臣的朝服一般無二。

I tried google translating but I couldn't understand it fully.

What is this Ao Menh Phu jacket you guys keep talking about?Is it only worn by the upper-class?








1714年日本出版的《世界人物圖卷》中的越南婦女及小孩。
越南古稱交趾(中國稱作「安南」),西元968年,丁部領建立丁朝(大瞿越國),開始成為獨立的封建王朝,兩年後(970年)自稱皇帝。在服飾上,尤其是宮廷禮服,皇帝、大臣的朝服,幾乎就是中國漢族王朝宮廷禮服,皇帝、大臣朝服的翻版,試以越南末代皇帝保大所着之弁冠、兗服來看,與明朝宗藩服飾如出一轍,不過比之明朝皇帝,其造型顯得小一號而已。以漢族帝王的正式禮服——冕旒袞服為例,明代皇帝的冕旒是十二旒的,越南是六旒的。 滿清入主中原後的兩百多年間,與中國南疆山水相連的越南,仍然較完好的保存著明式衣冠,從十九世紀末二十世紀初法國殖民者在越南存留下來的許多珍貴照片和大量的歷史資料可以明確的反映出這一點,有一個典型的例子就是,1898年駐雲南府(今昆明)的法國領事方蘇雅(Auguste François,1857年8月20日—1935年7月4日)所着龍袍的照片,被許多人誤認為是中國皇帝的龍袍或者中國戲曲中的裝束,實際上,方蘇雅所著之服,乃是越南皇帝的朝服,從造型看,和明代宗藩、大臣的朝服一般無二。
=================================
Basically,it says that vietnam court dress well perseved the Ming court dress style,only smaller.Such as in this pic,do you see the things hanging on his hat?Its called "Liu".Vietnam king has 6 while chinese emperor has 12.


This post has been edited by DOUBLEMINT: Mar 21 2011, 06:39 AM
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- thumbsUp   Ancient Artifacts   Mar 20 2011, 03:05 AM
- - thumbsUp   Trang phục thời Lư Trần nh...   Mar 20 2011, 03:15 AM
|- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 20 2011, 01:15 AM) ...   Mar 20 2011, 02:20 PM
- - thumbsUp   Ly Tran dynasty soldiers Le-Trinh Dynasties   Mar 20 2011, 03:31 AM
- - thumbsUp   Nguyen Dynasty paintings:   Mar 20 2011, 03:37 AM
- - thumbsUp   RE: Ancient Artifacts   Mar 20 2011, 03:39 AM
- - thumbsUp   RE: Ancient Artifacts   Mar 20 2011, 03:41 AM
- - thumbsUp   Cờ Tướng từ lâu đă ...   Mar 20 2011, 04:11 AM
- - LonelyKitty   Đang đợi có thằng năo ph...   Mar 20 2011, 04:21 AM
- - LonelyKitty   Is this Really Ly Tran Dynasty Clothing? This is ...   Mar 20 2011, 04:25 AM
- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 20 2011, 02:20...   Mar 20 2011, 02:38 PM
- - thumbsUp   Portrait of Nguyen Trai Portrait of Le Hoan (Le ...   Mar 20 2011, 03:28 PM
- - XigonCongchua   Reconstructed clothings from research Mạc D...   Mar 20 2011, 10:11 PM
|- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 20 2011, 08:11...   Mar 21 2011, 01:45 AM
- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 20 2011, 11:11...   Mar 21 2011, 12:03 AM
- - LonelyKitty   So pics is allowed, i have some nice colour pics t...   Mar 21 2011, 12:28 AM
- - thumbsUp   Same Ly Cong Uan drama series: Look at the peasan...   Mar 21 2011, 12:39 AM
- - XigonCongchua   Of course we were influenced by the Chinese. What ...   Mar 21 2011, 12:50 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 01:50...   Mar 21 2011, 01:12 AM
- - XigonCongchua   Peasant áo tứ thân People keep criticizing...   Mar 21 2011, 01:07 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 02:07...   Mar 21 2011, 01:18 AM
|- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 20 2011, 11:18 PM) ...   Mar 21 2011, 01:31 AM
- - XigonCongchua   ^ Yea I noticed the collar, but everything was acc...   Mar 21 2011, 01:15 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 02:15...   Mar 21 2011, 01:20 AM
- - DOUBLEMINT   vietnamese people in an ancient chinese painting.   Mar 21 2011, 01:18 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 02:18 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 01:24 AM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 01:24 AM) ...   Mar 21 2011, 01:30 AM
- - XigonCongchua   ^ Thanks for the contribution.   Mar 21 2011, 01:20 AM
- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 02:30 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 01:50 AM
- - XigonCongchua   They actually bear similarity to áo ngũ thân ...   Mar 21 2011, 01:54 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 02:54...   Mar 21 2011, 02:04 AM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 02:04 AM) ...   Mar 21 2011, 02:20 AM
|- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 12:20 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 02:33 AM
||- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 02:33...   Mar 21 2011, 02:43 AM
||- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 12:43 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 02:57 AM
|- - LonelyKitty   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 03:20 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 03:08 AM
- - hoang_1989   I like this thread. It is interesting to follow xi...   Mar 21 2011, 02:08 AM
- - XigonCongchua   Lord Nguyen decreed that "women dresses had t...   Mar 21 2011, 02:09 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 03:09...   Mar 21 2011, 02:16 AM
||- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 12:16 AM) ...   Mar 21 2011, 02:25 AM
||- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 12:16 AM) ...   Mar 21 2011, 02:46 AM
||- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 03:46...   Mar 21 2011, 03:10 AM
||- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 01:10 AM) ...   Mar 21 2011, 03:19 AM
||- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 04:19...   Mar 21 2011, 03:29 AM
||- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 01:29 AM) ...   Mar 21 2011, 03:42 AM
||- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 04:42...   Mar 21 2011, 03:51 AM
||- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE I guess that means we both agreed there was ...   Mar 21 2011, 04:26 AM
||- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 02:26 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 04:36 AM
||- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 04:36...   Mar 21 2011, 04:46 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 03:09...   Mar 21 2011, 02:22 AM
- - LonelyKitty   This is Quan Huyện Phủ: You see the 2 ...   Mar 21 2011, 03:00 AM
- - LonelyKitty   I mean the headdress in this pic, look much much d...   Mar 21 2011, 03:10 AM
- - XigonCongchua   The mandarin dresses of early Nguyễn dynasty...   Mar 21 2011, 03:13 AM
- - XigonCongchua   Pardon me but I would highly disagree if you call ...   Mar 21 2011, 04:11 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 04:11...   Mar 21 2011, 04:28 AM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 04:28 AM) ...   Mar 21 2011, 04:55 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 04:55 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 06:08 AM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 21 2011, 06:08 AM) ...   Mar 21 2011, 06:31 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 07:31 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 12:20 PM
- - LonelyKitty   Yeah Chinese influence the world with their Collar...   Mar 21 2011, 04:56 AM
- - papen   Please verify this pic QUOTE This one's from...   Mar 21 2011, 04:57 AM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (papen @ Mar 21 2011, 04:57 AM) Ple...   Mar 21 2011, 05:02 AM
|- - LonelyKitty   QUOTE (papen @ Mar 21 2011, 04:57 AM) Ple...   Mar 21 2011, 05:09 AM
- - XigonCongchua   Hm...because Lord Nguyen decreed that people to se...   Mar 21 2011, 05:00 AM
- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 05:00...   Mar 21 2011, 05:09 AM
- - thumbsUp   Found this while searching Giao Chi in Han Tu: ...   Mar 21 2011, 05:25 AM
- - LonelyKitty   Sorry, but you are using wrong word, our leader be...   Mar 21 2011, 06:51 AM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (LonelyKitty @ Mar 21 2011, 06:51 A...   Mar 21 2011, 07:01 AM
|- - LonelyKitty   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 07:01 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 07:06 AM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (LonelyKitty @ Mar 21 2011, 07:06 A...   Mar 21 2011, 07:26 AM
|- - LonelyKitty   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 07:26 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 07:44 AM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (LonelyKitty @ Mar 21 2011, 07:44 A...   Mar 21 2011, 08:02 AM
|- - LonelyKitty   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 21 2011, 08:02 AM...   Mar 21 2011, 08:12 AM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE (LonelyKitty @ Mar 21 2011, 08:12 A...   Mar 21 2011, 08:25 AM
- - Foxever   There is alot traditional customs look similar. Ch...   Mar 21 2011, 11:01 AM
|- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (Foxever @ Mar 21 2011, 09:01 AM) T...   Mar 21 2011, 03:03 PM
- - SoCal   http://www.tudoart.com/ItemListA.aspx?ArtistID=NGT...   Mar 21 2011, 02:42 PM
- - XigonCongchua   Áo Mệnh Phụ is basically a shirt with ...   Mar 21 2011, 02:47 PM
|- - DOUBLEMINT   QUOTE Áo Mệnh Phụ is basically a shirt...   Mar 21 2011, 08:02 PM
- - thumbsUp   So right now we got a slightly clearer picture of ...   Mar 21 2011, 03:29 PM
- - XigonCongchua   double post   Mar 21 2011, 03:38 PM
|- - XigonCongchua   ^ People of different classes dress differently, n...   Mar 21 2011, 03:45 PM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 03:38...   Mar 21 2011, 03:50 PM
- - papen   I see. It's indeed Vietnamese clothes. I asked...   Mar 21 2011, 04:25 PM
- - XigonCongchua   Beizi might have some influence on it.   Mar 21 2011, 11:42 PM
- - thumbsUp   Who's this? Chân dung Trịnh Đ́nh K...   Mar 22 2011, 12:38 AM
- - XigonCongchua   Those Le-dynasty mandarin clothes are basically si...   Mar 22 2011, 12:41 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 22 2011, 12:41...   Mar 22 2011, 12:58 AM
- - XigonCongchua   Áo dài basically came from those robes. It's o...   Mar 22 2011, 01:13 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 22 2011, 01:13...   Mar 22 2011, 01:30 AM
- - XigonCongchua   There must be some point in history where people i...   Mar 22 2011, 01:33 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 22 2011, 01:33...   Mar 22 2011, 01:43 AM
- - XigonCongchua   It's a good thing though. Áo dài looks better ...   Mar 22 2011, 01:52 AM
|- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 22 2011, 02:52...   Mar 22 2011, 01:59 AM
- - DOUBLEMINT   Are there any ancient paintings or photos about tr...   Mar 22 2011, 02:20 AM
|- - XigonCongchua   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 22 2011, 12:20 AM...   Mar 22 2011, 02:54 AM
- - XigonCongchua   Tight-fitting áo dài had come about in the early o...   Mar 22 2011, 02:21 AM
- - thumbsUp   QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Mar 22 2011, 03:20 AM...   Mar 22 2011, 02:36 AM
- - XigonCongchua   Folk paintings Vietnamese female musicians - 18th...   Mar 22 2011, 03:16 AM
- - LonelyKitty   I love these costumes: Tien Le Dynasty Costume: ...   Mar 22 2011, 06:11 AM
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