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Ancient Artifacts, Ancient Paintings & More
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post Mar 20 2011, 03:05 AM
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Taken from Lichsuvn.info

khiên này có trong sách Mỹ thuật việt Nam-TRANH CO VIET NAM (ANCIENT AND TRADITIONAL PAINTINGS OF VIETNAM), pages 68-69.
("Triumphal return of the military mandarin -- At the end of the 18th century (Doc Loi - Quynh - Nghe An)"
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14105&stc=1
Notice how different we dressed before 19th century.

khiên h́nh thuỗn dài có hoa văn rồng thời Lư
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14030&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14032&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14033&stc=1

ngoài ra c̣n có cái làm bằng mây, rất đẹp
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14102&stc=1

có cả khiên tṛn cũng cực tinh xảo, trưng bàyđấu giá bở nhà Southeby Newyork
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14076&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14075&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14074&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14073&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14072&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.p...14076&stc=1

This post has been edited by thumbsUp: Jul 3 2011, 03:34 AM
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post Mar 20 2011, 03:15 AM
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Trang phục thời Lư Trần như thế nào?
Ly Tran dynasty clothing:



Japanese depictions of Vietnamese people from their book "Vạn quốc nhân vật đồ, năm 1645"

On the right - possibly the look of ancient Ao Tu Than.

This one's from another Japanese book " Thế giới nhân vật đồ quyển, năm 1714"


As we can see, clothing styles changed dramatically at the end of 18th century.
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post Mar 20 2011, 03:31 AM
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Ly Tran dynasty soldiers



Le-Trinh Dynasties
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post Mar 20 2011, 03:37 AM
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Nguyen Dynasty paintings:






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post Mar 20 2011, 03:39 AM
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post Mar 20 2011, 03:41 AM
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post Mar 20 2011, 04:11 AM
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Cờ Tướng từ lâu đă được các bậc tướng tá, quân vương rất chú trọng để rèn hiện tính cách, tài thao lược, kinh bang tế thế.



Tranh vẽ Bộ lễ triều đ́nh nhà Nguyễn
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post Mar 20 2011, 04:21 AM
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Đang đợi có thằng năo phẳng nhào vào nói: "Giống Nhật quá!!!" :-"

btw, ảnh rất đẹp, thanks 1 cái tiếc là hông có.

This post has been edited by LonelyKitty: Mar 20 2011, 04:25 AM
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post Mar 20 2011, 04:25 AM
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Is this Really Ly Tran Dynasty Clothing?

This is Van Xuan Clothing, i think:

QUOTE



I have some really interesting real colour pictures, can i post them here?

This post has been edited by LonelyKitty: Mar 20 2011, 04:30 AM
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XigonCongchua
post Mar 20 2011, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 20 2011, 01:15 AM) *
Japanese depictions of Vietnamese people from their book "Vạn quốc nhân vật đồ, năm 1645"

On the right - possibly the look of ancient Ao Tu Than.

The one on the right is áo tứ thân
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post Mar 20 2011, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 20 2011, 02:20 PM) *
The one on the right is áo tứ thân


QUOTE (thumbsUp @ Mar 20 2011, 03:15 AM) *
Japanese depictions of Vietnamese people from their book "Vạn quốc nhân vật đồ, năm 1645"

On the right - possibly the look of ancient Ao Tu Than.

This one's from another Japanese book " Thế giới nhân vật đồ quyển, năm 1714"


As we can see, clothing styles changed dramatically at the end of 18th century.


Yeah these two seems like the predecessor of the Ao Tu Than.
Especially that type of skirt which is very flowy and not puffy or thick like Hanbok or Kimono.

I'm wondering if that second painting is of Dong Kinh people of Hanoi or Tokyo people of Japan.
From the book title it seems the book is about people of nations around the world.
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post Mar 20 2011, 03:28 PM
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Portrait of Nguyen Trai


Portrait of Le Hoan (Le Dai Hanh)
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XigonCongchua
post Mar 20 2011, 10:11 PM
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Reconstructed clothings from research

Mạc Dynasty


Lê Dynasty


^I think the "lotus crown" won by Vietnamese queens are pretty uniquely Vietnamese as they are not seen in Chinese.








I always feel that customs for Viet men are often more similar to Chinese costumes whereas costumes for Viet women often preserve many unique features. Anyone know why this is?
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post Mar 21 2011, 12:03 AM
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QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 20 2011, 11:11 PM) *
I always feel that customs for Viet men are often more similar to Chinese costumes whereas costumes for Viet women often preserve many unique features. Anyone know why this is?


Maybe, maybe not. After taking a close look at Ao Tu Than (especially old Ao Tu Than) and Chinese clothing like Tang style clothing
we might've gotten influenced from them.

I remember reading an article about a Chinese diplomat describing Vietnam during the Tran dynasties about
how grandiose our palaces were and how we still dressed in Tang dynasty styled clothing.

It seems we still dressed that way with slight adjustments to the clothing up until the late 19th century, just
in a more peasant version of the dress.

Tang Dynasty


Ao Tu Than:



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LonelyKitty
post Mar 21 2011, 12:28 AM
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So pics is allowed, i have some nice colour pics took by a French about our quan huyện, tri phủ in Nguyễn dynasty in early 19th, but i'm at school and using my phone now, when i'm home i'll post it, you'll be surprised for sure, spoiler: our tuần cảnh (police) - Nguyễn dynasty wear a very long trảm mã đao! And much much manlier than khai dinh sh!tdier in late 19th. Btw, I don't feel our costume look like Chinese costume especially Lê-Trịnh and Trịnh-Nguyễn, in that time our have a big black headdress just like in thumbup's first pic.
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post Mar 21 2011, 12:39 AM
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Same Ly Cong Uan drama series:

Look at the peasant girls on the right. Dressing still very Tang dynasty but with khan dong.

Very similar to this:


QUOTE (LonelyKitty @ Mar 21 2011, 01:28 AM) *
So pics is allowed, i have some nice colour pics took by a French about our quan huyện, tri phủ in Nguyễn dynasty in early 19th, but i'm at school and using my phone now, when i'm home i'll post it, you'll be surprised for sure, spoiler: our tuần cảnh (police) - Nguyễn dynasty wear a very long trảm mă đao! And much much manlier than khai dinh sh!tdier in late 19th. Btw, I don't feel our costume look like Chinese costume especially Lê-Trịnh and Trịnh-Nguyễn, in that time our have a big black headdress just like in thumbup's first pic.


Of course it's not the same but influenced. Headdress is usually different.
Like Hanbok and Kimono were influenced by Chinese dress but I don't think they are the same as the Chinese.

Hurry home, I really want to see those pictures lol.

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XigonCongchua
post Mar 21 2011, 12:50 AM
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Of course we were influenced by the Chinese. What I meant to say was that Viet women costumes are at least "distinguishable" from those in China, but Viet men costumes are often hard to distinguish.

Btw, the áo tứ thân on the right in the 2nd picture is a modernized version used Miss International.

I reckon the old áo tứ thân should be more like these

Royal/noble




Peasant/Commoner version




Dancing girl version? (kinda like aspara - skin revealing)




This post has been edited by XigonCongchua: Mar 21 2011, 12:50 AM
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post Mar 21 2011, 01:07 AM
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Peasant áo tứ thân


People keep criticizing Lư Công Uẩn - Đường đến Thăng Long, but after looking at their costumes, I found that they're actually pretty history-accurate. What do you expect? All their customs were designed by the author of the popular documentary series "Đi T́m Trang Phục Việt" as I heard. They just hate because of the director. People just get too emotional and don't think. Also thanks the oversea anti-communists for exaggerating and fueling the hatred, now the movie is banned. Happy? Talktohand.gif

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post Mar 21 2011, 01:12 AM
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QUOTE (XigonCongchua @ Mar 21 2011, 01:50 AM) *
Of course we were influenced by the Chinese. What I meant to say was that Viet women costumes are at least "distinguishable" from those in China, but Viet men costumes are often hard to distinguish.

Btw, the áo tứ thân on the right in the 2nd picture is a modernized version used Miss International.

I reckon the old áo tứ thân should be more like these

Royal/noble


Yeah it'd probably look something like this during the later years of the 18th century.
And like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Binl3ll-3CU @ 2:17
Before it probably look more similar to the Japanese paintings and those peasant girls in Ly Cong Uan.

I don't think they look like the first two cartoon drawings though. Like the paintings show, the neck
collar thing seems to be a new addition to Vietnamese attire. Possibly after the 19th century. Those
two drawings look more like Ao Dai with outer Ao Menh Phu.

It's more distinguishable because the headdress and hairstyles of Viet women were more different compared to
the men's headdress.

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XigonCongchua
post Mar 21 2011, 01:15 AM
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^ Yea I noticed the collar, but everything was accurate aside from that. You can tell that from comparison to the peasant áo tứ thân that still exist until today.

The dress from the clip you post is obviously ethnic Muong dress. Even her hat is from ethnic Muong. They were trying to be creative and combine ethnic Muong clothes with aodai.


As for the distinguishability of Viet women's clothings, it's not just the head dress. When I watch cải lương, I can always tell whether it's a Chinese story or a Viet story based on the dresses of women (even when they don't wear head dress), but not from dresses of men.

This post has been edited by XigonCongchua: Mar 21 2011, 01:18 AM
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