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Singapore's New Era without LKY
elleX0
post May 15 2011, 05:10 AM
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SINGAPORE - Singapore founding father Lee Kuan Yew resigned from the Cabinet on Saturday, ceding leadership to a younger generation after his party's worst election result since independence in 1965.
Lee and fellow former prime minister Goh Chok Tong said in their joint resignation statement they wanted to leave a clean path for younger leaders.

"A younger generation wants to be more engaged in the decisions which affect them," they said. "After a watershed general election, we have decided to leave the cabinet and have a completely younger team of ministers to connect to and engage with this young generation."


Will this be in safe hands or...?
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tangawizi
post May 15 2011, 12:27 PM
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They were the generation that thrived on a climate of fear and unknowns, so being kiasi and kiasu were the ethos.

Now that they are out of the picture, hopefully we can evolve out of being kiasi and kiasu?

Are you an ex-Singaporean ellexo? Cuz u remind me of LKY alot leh....
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j_diddy
post May 16 2011, 01:36 AM
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Well you still gotta give the guy some credit. He was able to capitalize on those 'fears' and turn them into Singapore's advantage.

A change in policy and paradigm may prove disastrous to Singapore.


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elleX0
post May 16 2011, 03:11 AM
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QUOTE (j_diddy @ May 16 2011, 07:36 AM) *
Well you still gotta give the guy some credit. He was able to capitalize on those 'fears' and turn them into Singapore's advantage.

A change in policy and paradigm may prove disastrous to Singapore.

LKY walked a tight-rope all his political career and stayed on top. But do the younger generation leaders be able to do the same balancing act and stay on top? Have they seen and identified the threats and pitfalls that lie ahead for Singapore and can the new leadership steer the ship clear of those rocks into clear oceans? It needs wisdom and foresight. Are the citizens united in their ambitions for Singapore? Or are there those who have opposing ideas?
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tangawizi
post May 16 2011, 05:19 AM
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I think LKY is a realist, and he knows that the challenges facing Singaporean leadership is no longer the same sort of thing as when he and his cabinet ministers faced during the 60s, 70s... The sleeping giants are now awake (Vietnam, China, Indo-china etc).

The point is this : the PAP ministers have no choice but to change their chip now. I think the island state has come of age. The PAP is being forced to answer to the people with their declining vote percentages over the past few elections.

For the millions of dollars they are paid, Singaporeans aren't getting more bang for our bucks these days from these ministers. They have to be held accountable for their mistakes, and open up more of their financial books for public scrutiny.

Thats political maturity and the PAP ministers know that it's time for the Singaporean voter to wake up out of their self-imposed political apathy.



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yiming2000
post May 16 2011, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE (elleX0 @ May 15 2011, 05:10 AM) *
Will this be in safe hands or...?


Whose hands? The younger generation of Singaporeans? They are idealists who think democracy works.

What Singaporeans want most likely will not be good for Singapore.
LKY had to drag an entire generation of Singaporeans (parents of the present generation) who were culturally unrefined, crude, and insular into the first-world. LKY had the vision that the rest of Singapore then could not see, let alone comprehend. LKY had to outsmart the democratic process to maintain political power to create the impressive island state today. If LKY's generation of Singaporeans had their way, Singapore wouldn't be so amazingly different from Penang. Singapore owes her success not to Singaporeans but to LKY in the same way Apple's phenomenal success is driven by Steve Jobs.

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tangawizi
post May 16 2011, 11:13 PM
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Hey yiming, did u run for the opposition? icon_wink.gif
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badparticle
post May 16 2011, 11:51 PM
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QUOTE (yiming2000 @ May 16 2011, 02:22 PM) *
.... Singapore owes her success not to Singaporeans but to LKY in the same way Apple's phenomenal success is driven by Steve Jobs.


Singapore Inc. Reminds me of Florence and the Medici

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elleX0
post May 17 2011, 06:11 AM
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QUOTE (yiming2000 @ May 16 2011, 08:22 PM) *
Whose hands? The younger generation of Singaporeans? They are idealists who think democracy works.

What Singaporeans want most likely will not be good for Singapore.
LKY had to drag an entire generation of Singaporeans (parents of the present generation) who were culturally unrefined, crude, and insular into the first-world. LKY had the vision that the rest of Singapore then could not see, let alone comprehend. LKY had to outsmart the democratic process to maintain political power to create the impressive island state today. If LKY's generation of Singaporeans had their way, Singapore wouldn't be so amazingly different from Penang. Singapore owes her success not to Singaporeans but to LKY in the same way Apple's phenomenal success is driven by Steve Jobs.

yiming, it is true that prior to LKY the average Singaporean were political pacifists. Because of their cultural history, they would not touch politics with a long barge pole. But on the other hand, because of the PAP political policies, Singaporeans have now taken the present government for granted and have also become apathetic to real politics, leaving the government to continue providing the security and prosperity that they have enjoyed. Pap has killed constructive opposition and political debate in Singapore and is today in s political doldrum. PC has silenced the inquiring mind.

This post has been edited by elleX0: May 17 2011, 01:14 PM
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yiming2000
post May 17 2011, 12:43 PM
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QUOTE (elleX0 @ May 17 2011, 06:11 AM) *
PC has silenced the inquiring mind.


The inquiring mind of the Singaporean today is no different from that of the Malaysian Chinese. They both share the
same mental DNA. LKY is exceptional. Granted, after LKY, the Chinese in Singapore won't be hampered by Malays the way the Chinese in Malaysia are hobbled politically. If it wasn't for LKY, Singapore would be ruled by UMNO today. It took guts and wiles to wrest Singapore away and save the millions of Chinese from Malay control. Does Singaporeans today inquire into how much they owe Lau Lee? Apparently, not. They think LKY is holding them back!

The Malay factor may be a drawback in certain respects but that doesn't mean that the Chinese, on their own, are any better. What makes Singapore so much further ahead of Malaysia is not that the Chinese is industrious and smarter but because of the rule of integrity. And we all know that integrity is not a Chinese trait. That vital quality that is essential
to building a successful society came solely from LKY.

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elleX0
post May 17 2011, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (yiming2000 @ May 17 2011, 06:43 PM) *
The inquiring mind of the Singaporean today is no different from that of the Malaysian Chinese. They both share the
same mental DNA. LKY is exceptional. Granted, after LKY, the Chinese in Singapore won't be hampered by Malays the way the Chinese in Malaysia are hobbled politically. If it wasn't for LKY, Singapore would be ruled by UMNO today. It took guts and wiles to wrest Singapore away and save the millions of Chinese from Malay control. Does Singaporeans today inquire into how much they owe Lau Lee? Apparently, not. They think LKY is holding them back!

The Malay factor may be a drawback in certain respects but that doesn't mean that the Chinese, on their own, are any better. What makes Singapore so much further ahead of Malaysia is not that the Chinese is industrious and smarter but because of the rule of integrity. And we all know that integrity is not a Chinese trait. That vital quality that is essential
to building a successful society came solely from LKY.

Although much credit must go to LKY for the creation of modern Singapore, there is still many shortcomings in the Singapore psyche that was not corrected during his time in office. There is still too much PC and not enough of the inquiring mind among the up asnd coming generations. And that is due to the lack of the right kind of stimulus in the educational and leadership skills among the school aged children, including the Universities. Take this conversation here, except for you, so far, true Singaporeans have not exhibited an inquiring mind in the so many controversial topics raised. Why are they so inhibited? It is due, in a large part, to the educational and recreational provisions offered the young people.
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yiming2000
post May 19 2011, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (elleX0 @ May 17 2011, 01:25 PM) *
Although much credit must go to LKY for the creation of modern Singapore, there is still many shortcomings in the Singapore psyche that was not corrected during his time in office. There is still too much PC and not enough of the inquiring mind among the up asnd coming generations. And that is due to the lack of the right kind of stimulus in the educational and leadership skills among the school aged children, including the Universities. Take this conversation here, except for you, so far, true Singaporeans have not exhibited an inquiring mind in the so many controversial topics raised. Why are they so inhibited? It is due, in a large part, to the educational and recreational provisions offered the young people.


Catherine Lim is not inhibited. She is well educated and has international acclaim. Any intellectual, not just Singaporeans, with an ability to inquire don’t come any better than her in terms of credentials. She has been a very outspoken and controversial political commentator drawing even the ire of Lee Kuan Yew. But what is the value of her exhibition and those of other Singaporeans who inquire like her and speak out in protest?

Lee Kuan Yew is also an intellectual. The difference between his thinking and that of dissidents like Ms Lim lies in the type of wisdom each has. Ms Lim has conventional wisdom; the kind generating ideas that are widely held, intellectually accessible, and fundamentally flawed. Such ideas are impracticable, and if executed, lead to societal underperformance.

Truly smart people cannot be cultivated. You can only feed, clothe, house and protect people from harm, like good parents do with their children, to give their creative intelligence, if any, the opportunity to flower. Can you blame parents who are intelligent if their kids turn out to be duds? So, how is it Lee Kuan Yew’s fault if he gave his life to building a secure and economically thriving Singapore and the Singapore psyche sucks?
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elleX0
post May 19 2011, 03:05 PM
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yiming: "how is it Lee Kuan Yew’s fault if he gave his life to building a secure and economically thriving Singapore and the Singapore psyche sucks? "



yiming: one swallow (Catherine Lim is not inhibited) does not make a summer.

Are you accepting that Singapore Psyche sucks? If so, was it not the fault of the educational system and the development of individual skills? That surely must reflect on the educational department/government? Is something being done about it to develop, say leadership skills? Does Singapore even recognise this as a failing? or do they consider it an asset?

This post has been edited by elleX0: May 20 2011, 04:16 AM
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yiming2000
post May 20 2011, 12:34 PM
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QUOTE (elleX0 @ May 19 2011, 03:05 PM) *
yiming: one swallow (Catherine Lim is not inhibited) does not make a summer.

Are you accepting that Singapore Psyche sucks? If so, was it not the fault of the educational system and the development of individual skills? That surely must reflect on the educational department/government? Is something being done about it to develop, say leadership skills? Does Singapore even recognise this as a failing? or do they consider it an asset?


It was you who pointed out that the Singaporean is inhibited and lacks the ability to inquire. Personally, I don't see the Singporean as compliant wimps. They are more or less like tangy: they defer to the government but, otherwise, outspoken, well-travelled and reasonably smart. What more do you want? Then you have the glory hounds like Catherine Lim who are too clever by half. The bottom line is that the Singaporean Chinese is way ahead of Chinese in other parts of Asia including China, and can stand toe-to-toe with Chinese in the West (i.e. America, Canada, Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand).

The Singapore education system is designed to equip Singaporeans with skills to be economically viable. You seem to imply that Singapore schools are carrying out a PAP agenda to deliberately and insiduously turn out inhibited dullards. I wonder why? Do you think the Japanese government is also molding the Japanese mind?
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elleX0
post May 20 2011, 02:30 PM
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QUOTE (yiming2000 @ May 20 2011, 06:34 PM) *
It was you who pointed out that the Singaporean is inhibited and lacks the ability to inquire. Personally, I don't see the Singporean as compliant wimps. They are more or less like tangy: they defer to the government but, otherwise, outspoken, well-travelled and reasonably smart. What more do you want? Then you have the glory hounds like Catherine Lim who are too clever by half. The bottom line is that the Singaporean Chinese is way ahead of Chinese in other parts of Asia including China, and can stand toe-to-toe with Chinese in the West (i.e. America, Canada, Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand).

The Singapore education system is designed to equip Singaporeans with skills to be economically viable. You seem to imply that Singapore schools are carrying out a PAP agenda to deliberately and insiduously turn out inhibited dullards. I wonder why? Do you think the Japanese government is also molding the Japanese mind?

Yiming, the tangy types, and the Catherine Lim types are, to me, the nasty b!tchy menopausal types, nothing to be proud of. I do not read any intellect in what they utter, only b!tchiness. Sorry, nothing personal. In the last 3 generations if have not heard of any world class literary works or scientific discoveries, or financial accomplishments coming out of Singapore yet. No real Singapore citizen has come to forums like this to air their views about world or local affairs and what comes out of LHL's utterances contradicts that of his father. So even on important issues, the two generations do not see eye to eye. In fact on some important issues LHL has stuck his head in the sand, perhaps hoping the Satan will go away if he keeps it down long enough.
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yiming2000
post May 20 2011, 09:59 PM
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QUOTE (elleX0 @ May 20 2011, 02:30 PM) *
No real Singapore citizen has come to forums like this to air their views about world or local affairs and what comes out of LHL's utterances contradicts that of his father. So even on important issues, the two generations do not see eye to eye. In fact on some important issues LHL has stuck his head in the sand, perhaps hoping the Satan will go away if he keeps it down long enough.


So, what are you saying? I know you have an issue here but I am not getting the picture. LKY may die tomorrow but he has in place a political blueprint that will guide the PAP government in staying on the same track firmly at least for the next ten years. You obviously are not happy with the status quo in Singapore. If LKY is receptive and willing to tell LSL to implement your recommendations, what are the problems you see and how should they be addressed?

Would you air your views?



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elleX0
post May 21 2011, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (yiming2000 @ May 21 2011, 03:59 AM) *
So, what are you saying? I know you have an issue here but I am not getting the picture. LKY may die tomorrow but he has in place a political blueprint that will guide the PAP government in staying on the same track firmly at least for the next ten years. You obviously are not happy with the status quo in Singapore. If LKY is receptive and willing to tell LSL to implement your recommendations, what are the problems you see and how should they be addressed?

Would you air your views?


The gist of Catherine Lim's article refers to the lack of press (and Personal) freedom, and the suppression of political debate especially if it is critical of PAP policies or their hierarchy. This leads to political and intellectual inbreeding. I generally have similar impressions. Admittedly there are some pretty crude peasant types in S.E.Asia who need some control, but it is difficult to draw the dividing line. Strangely I will quote the following that has a very similar ring to what I have just said:

In accordance to Islamic Law, it is a criminal offence to speak ill of Islam, Islam's Prophet, and Islam's Holy Scriptures (Quran and Hadiths.) Blasphemy suffers the penalty of death.

The difference is "PAP" is replaced by "Islam." In fact, mention "Islam" and some people will immediately scream, "islamophobia but it is all right to discuss Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Christianity, but never Islam. Why is that?
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yiming2000
post May 21 2011, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (elleX0 @ May 21 2011, 12:04 PM) *
The difference is "PAP" is replaced by "Islam." In fact, mention "Islam" and some people will immediately scream, "islamophobia but it is all right to discuss Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Christianity, but never Islam. Why is that?


Singapore has no room for loiterers. In first-world societies, there are also no stray dogs. So, the ship is run pretty tight in order to allow people to get on with highly productive lives as part of a high income, economically viable social structure. Perhaps, not all Singaporeans are ready for the fast track and want more slack to live as they like and do what they want.

Obviously, Singapore on the fast track is not working for you because you don't like toeing the line and see it as a violation of personal freedom. There are Singaporeans who are busy raising families, building careers and making money. They appreciate the way the PAP is running Singapore.

I am not making you wrong. Your grievances are real. Singapore feels like Changi Prison to you, and to Ms Lim too. It is unfortunate that you are not happy with the way things are in Singapore. Just because you are unhappy, that doesn't
mean that the PAP government of the day is wrong. You have to face the fact that you are in the 40% minority. You have to accept the 60% majority that approves of the PAP way. This is the way democracy works.




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tangawizi
post May 22 2011, 01:01 AM
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Oooh grandpa, mysogynist is unbecoming of an octogenarian leh...

There is no intellectual content you have written on Singapore except for myopic views you have gotten from surfing on the web.

Underlying your every posts there is this desire to tell non-muslims about the danger of co-existing with muslims.

Now you are reeking of mysogyny... it's sad that you exhibit the very extremism you seek to call out in religious fundamentalists. tsk tsk ... go and google some more ah pek... icon_wink.gif
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elleX0
post May 22 2011, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE (yiming2000 @ May 22 2011, 01:44 AM) *
Singapore has no room for loiterers. In first-world societies, there are also no stray dogs. So, the ship is run pretty tight in order to allow people to get on with highly productive lives as part of a high income, economically viable social structure. Perhaps, not all Singaporeans are ready for the fast track and want more slack to live as they like and do what they want.

Obviously, Singapore on the fast track is not working for you because you don't like toeing the line and see it as a violation of personal freedom. There are Singaporeans who are busy raising families, building careers and making money. They appreciate the way the PAP is running Singapore.

I am not making you wrong. Your grievances are real. Singapore feels like Changi Prison to you, and to Ms Lim too. It is unfortunate that you are not happy with the way things are in Singapore. Just because you are unhappy, that doesn't
mean that the PAP government of the day is wrong. You have to face the fact that you are in the 40% minority. You have to accept the 60% majority that approves of the PAP way. This is the way democracy works.

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