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To the regular Korean Chat members (non-trolls) read please, Rules and
Chan-Ho
post May 29 2011, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ May 29 2011, 05:12 PM) *
It doesn't matter matter what the supposed issue of your thread was. The point is that you created a very sensitive flambait topic that was aimed at antagonizing a specific country/ethnicity. Futhermore, it was unsubstantiated and more of an opinion piece. There was an obvious agenda.

Actually it would cut down on trolling tremendously if K-chat banned the word "China" or discussing of China altogether.


The purpose of K-chat is to talk about Korea related topics. As much as I don't like it, China's actions play a huge role in Korean affairs. You need to differentiate when we critisize "China's policies" (mostly aimed at the Chinese government) and REAL derogatory remarks against Chinese people. One is regarded as trolling and the other isn't. If you have an ounce of intelligence and objectivity, you should be able to see the difference. The fact that Chinese nationalists will say anything to justify Chinese policies that adversely affect Korea and Asia is what exasperates the discussion. A bit of Chinese objectivity regarding the actual geopolitical reality might bridge the differences between Koreans and Chinese on this forum. Unfortunately, most Chinese members are too busy "defending" the Chinese government's policies and antagonizing the "West" to understand the Korean perspective or add anything significant to objective discourse.

This post has been edited by Chan-Ho: May 29 2011, 07:35 PM
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devils666
post May 29 2011, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE (Captain Corea @ May 29 2011, 07:14 PM) *
Sorry, man, but your demands are out to lunch. Something like this would never happen.


^So you are blaming the Chinese members for defending themselves in topics which YOU baited? You are blaming non-Korean members for their personal views as to why you are flaming? Have you ever stopped to think that you're not being objective either? I'm so sick of you blaming Chinese people for Everything.

Why? Because certain members would rather dwell on hate and scapegoating?

Will it make you sick if you can't discuss China in a negative way on KOREAN chat?

This post has been edited by devils666: May 29 2011, 07:27 PM
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Junzi
post May 29 2011, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ May 30 2011, 10:18 AM) *
^So you are blaming the Chinese members for defending themselves in topics which YOU baited? You are blaming non-Korean members for their personal views as to why you are flaming? Have you ever stopped to think that you're not being objective either? I'm so sick of you blaming Chinese people for Everything.

Why? Because certain members would rather dwell on hate and scapegoating?

Will it make you sick if you can't discuss China in a negative way on KOREAN chat?


Don't worry man, a little more antagonization by South Korean people does not hurt really.

China and Chinese people have a long history being antagonize and discriminated by people around the world, be it in SE Asia, Africa, Europe or America, even though we have done nothing to them, we even have a long history of helping those countries.

I remember someone said, that China is the jew of Asia, I guess that's true to an extent.

But, nvm, I believe heaven have eyes, and somehow they will have their own retribution.

This post has been edited by Junzi: May 29 2011, 07:58 PM
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tom2011
post May 29 2011, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ May 30 2011, 09:18 AM) *
^So you are blaming the Chinese members for defending themselves in topics which YOU baited? You are blaming non-Korean members for their personal views as to why you are flaming? Have you ever stopped to think that you're not being objective either? I'm so sick of you blaming Chinese people for Everything.

Why? Because certain members would rather dwell on hate and scapegoating?

Will it make you sick if you can't discuss China in a negative way on KOREAN chat?


You asked so I will chip in answer why China gets brought up here often. Because when China farts, the entire Korean peninsula shakes. That's the geopolitical reality of how China is effecting the Korean peninsula. China is thirty five times bigger than Korea and its involvement in the two Koreas (especially North Korea) are huge. Most of it is negative influence and that's why Koreans are not too fond of China currently.
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tom2011
post May 29 2011, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE
Will it make you sick if you can't discuss China in a negative way on KOREAN chat?


hmmm... I suspect that this will not stop unless somehow China stops the divide and conquer strategy against Korea by supporting North Korea and Kim Jong Il's policies, and China stops violently violating South Korean territorial waters.

I've not read any derogatory comments from Koreans here about other ethnics like SE Asians, blacks, hispanics, etc, and also particulately against Whites and Americans. Most of those hate comments come from the Chinese members.

This post has been edited by tom2011: May 29 2011, 08:07 PM
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qwerty2010
post May 29 2011, 08:03 PM
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Yes, I would like to add that I agree with devil666 in this instance. Many regular Korean members here do an inordinate amount of China criticism and on many occasions, what amounts to Chinese members as China bashing, "Imperialists", "Genocide", etc., and then when Chinese members show up to present facts, their point of view, Chinese perspectives and counter-arguments, we are accused of being trolls and in my case, there is a severe lack of civility, descent into insults and name-calling.

I have pointed out that I do not mind disagreement, only the lack of civility. I believe it is beneficial for AF members of diverse background to exchange opinions so a diversity of opinions are showcased, but aggression from regular members from any Chats is not very helpful.

If there can be an agreement that K Chat members refrain from flame-baiting posts about China, then it is likely Chinese members will not visit K Chat political threads as often, and will likely stay with the friendlier KPop topics.

For reference and as an example, there is a big difference between a post that raises legitimacy in Tibet's claim to being an independent nation and China's claim of it being China's historic territory versus a post that accuses China of being a Genocidal Imperialist, and Chinese members who disagree and present historic evidence that contradict that insulting designation as "Pan-Sinocentric Imperialists".

In the end, it might be better for Korean members who do not have anything but an "Evil China" perspective refrain from political threads about China as it already demonstrates a "close-minded" perspective and the rolling up for sleeves angling for a fight. I'm sure Korean members would be able to put themselves into Chinese members shoes and prefer that C-Chat doesn't regularly post "Evil S Korea" threads - that's just plainly flame-baiting, on a regular basis.

Of course if C-Chat starts flame-baiting threads about Korea, the same rules apply.

This post has been edited by qwerty2010: May 29 2011, 08:10 PM
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Junzi
post May 29 2011, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (tom2011 @ May 30 2011, 11:02 AM) *
hmmm... I suspect that this will not stop unless somehow China stops the divide and conquer strategy against Korea by supporting North Korea and Kim Jong Il's policies, and China stops violently violating South Korean territorial waters.


Wow, so much bias in on sentence.

Why is China the one that dividing and conquer and not the US?

China is supporting N Korea to open up their economy just like China, but they don't want to, and you blame it on us.

We supported unification of Korea, with S Korean leadership as shown in Wikileaks, you still blame us.

We do all the work for the thawing of the relationship, China kept suggesting for six-party talk, but who keeps rejecting? Still blame us.

We have no bases in N Korea, while S Korea, have a gazilion of US bases, ready for war, you still blame us for provocation.

We give them foods, you still blame us.

Your biasness knows no bounds.
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qwerty2010
post May 29 2011, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (tom2011 @ May 29 2011, 08:02 PM) *
hmmm... I suspect that this will not stop unless somehow China stops the divide and conquer strategy against Korea by supporting North Korea and Kim Jong Il's policies, and China stops violently violating South Korean territorial waters.

I've not read any derogatory comments from Koreans here about other ethnics like SE Asians, blacks, hispanics, etc, and also particulately against Whites and Americans. Most of those hate comments come from the Chinese members.


This is an example of a "close-minded" comment, assuming that somehow "China has a divide and conquer strategy against Korea", stated WITHOUT PROOF, i.e. proof that China has set up military bases and directly controls N Korea, as if China HARBORS INTENT to "conquer Korea" and in itself quite insulting to Chinese members.

Worse, disagreement from Chinese members about this opinion is construed as "hate comments" - just whom is making accusations against whom? Which country is being put on the defensive?

China is allied with many countries, eg. Pakistan, so how is China "divide and conquering" when it allies itself with one country? Is alliance itself a "divide and conquer" act with the intent to occupy and control? Why is it that when other nations, eg. Europe and the US ally with other nations, the same accusations do not apply?

Why don't the same criteria apply to the US in S Korea? What's more direct than having military bases in another country?

When a K Chat member makes such a comment, it is inevitable that Chinese members would ask for consistency in application of judgment and standards, "proof" and evidence.

This post has been edited by qwerty2010: May 29 2011, 08:22 PM
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tom2011
post May 29 2011, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (qwerty2010 @ May 30 2011, 10:03 AM) *
Yes, I would like to add that I agree with devil666 in this instance. Many regular Korean members here do an inordinate amount of China criticism and on many occasions, what amounts to Chinese members as China bashing, "Imperialists", "Genocide", etc., and then when Chinese members show up to present facts, their point of view, Chinese perspectives and counter-arguments, we are accused of being trolls and in my case, there is a severe lack of civility, descent into insults and name-calling.

I have pointed out that I do not mind disagreement, only the lack of civility. I believe it is beneficial for AF members of diverse background to exchange opinions so a diversity of opinions are showcased, but aggression from regular members from any Chats is not very helpful.

If there can be an agreement that K Chat members refrain from flame-baiting posts about China, then it is likely Chinese members will not visit K Chat political threads as often, and will likely stay with the friendlier KPop topics.

For reference and as an example, there is a big difference between a post that raises legitimacy in Tibet's claim to being an independent nation and China's claim of it being China's historic territory versus a post that accuses China of being a Genocidal Imperialist, and Chinese members who disagree and present historic evidence that contradict that insulting designation as "Pan-Sinocentric Imperialists".

Of course if C-Chat starts flame-baiting threads about Korea, the same rules apply.



Even if it isn't about China or even if it's not about politics, Chinese members often get involved in strictly Korean related issues, usually with the intent putting down Koreans. That's when threads go down hill again with China getting involved again. This chat is a perfect analogy of what's going on in the Korean peninsula. Korea is getting drowned out by the suffocating death grip of China.
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devils666
post May 29 2011, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (tom2011 @ May 29 2011, 08:17 PM) *
Even if it isn't about China or even if it's not about politics, Chinese members often get involved in strictly Korean related issues, usually with the intent putting down Koreans. That's when threads go down hill again with China getting involved again. This chat is a perfect analogy of what's going on in the Korean peninsula. Korea is getting drowned out by the suffocating death grip of China.


Talk about flamebaiting....every thread eventually turns into a big scapegoating campaign against China and Chinese people. You are just proving my point.

And I have been spectating AF for a while. Non-Koreans (excuding whites) get bashed on K-chat by Korean members (don't try to pin this on chinese members) and no one seems to care.

Please have some dignity and pride and stop blaming someone else for all your problems/actions.

This post has been edited by devils666: May 29 2011, 08:25 PM
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tom2011
post May 29 2011, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE (qwerty2010 @ May 30 2011, 10:15 AM) *
This is an example of a "close-minded" comment, assuming that somehow "China has a divide and conquer strategy against Korea", stated WITHOUT PROOF, i.e. proof that China has set up military bases and directly controls N Korea, as if China HARBORS INTENT to "conquer Korea" and in itself quite insulting to Chinese members.

China is allied with many countries, eg. Pakistan, so how is China "divide and conquering" when it allies itself with one country? Is alliance itself a "divide and conquer" act with the intent to occupy and control? Then why don't the same criteria apply to the US in S Korea?

When a K Chat member makes such a comment, it is inevitable that Chinese members would ask for consistency in application of judgment and standards, "proof" and evidence.


Because no normal country would help feed, supply, and support a maniacal country under Kim Jong Il. China obviously does not want a united Korea under South Korea, which is the logical choice for the most logical people. But since the Chinese nationalists are not logical people other then to serve their selfish interests, they refuse to stop propping up a deadly regime. It's the old Chinese strategy of keep them divided and they will remain weak.


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devils666
post May 29 2011, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (tom2011 @ May 29 2011, 08:25 PM) *
Because no normal country would help feed, supply, and support a maniacal country under Kim Jong Il. China obviously does not want a united Korea under South Korea, which is the logical choice for the most logical people. But since the Chinese nationalists are not logical people other then to serve their selfish interests, they refuse to stop propping up a deadly regime. It's the old Chinese strategy of keep them divided and they will remain weak.


I'm warning you. Stop going off topic and flaming. These are strictly your opinions and you are doing nothing for the peace of this board.
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qwerty2010
post May 29 2011, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (tom2011 @ May 29 2011, 08:17 PM) *
Even if it isn't about China or even if it's not about politics, Chinese members often get involved in strictly Korean related issues, usually with the intent putting down Koreans. That's when threads go down hill again with China getting involved again. This chat is a perfect analogy of what's going on in the Korean peninsula. Korea is getting drowned out by the suffocating death grip of China.



Care to point out WHERE in my post that Koreans are being "suffocated" with a "death grip by China"?

As I mentioned, I would appreciate documented EVIDENCE that I am engaging in this "analogous" behavior of "drowning out" Koreans with a "suffocating death grip". embarassedlaugh.gif

Notice that this topic is about maintaining civility on this board, and Chinese members are requesting civility to be observed and adhered to by BOTH Chinese and Korean members.

This is where I hope that moderators would take a close look at the deterioration - perhaps either Koreans post in a "Koreans Only" thread invisible to Chinese members when they feel they need the "freedom" to bash China and Chinese members and post such insults without the courtesy of OFFERING EVIDENCE, or refrain altogether from flame-baiting Chinese members.

I'm sure Korean members would appreciate the same civility, that C-Chat doesn't post thread after thread about "Evil S Korea trying to harm China with a Death Grip", and obviously, C Chat doesn't engage in that type of behavior.

This post has been edited by qwerty2010: May 29 2011, 08:36 PM
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tom2011
post May 29 2011, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ May 30 2011, 10:21 AM) *
Talk about flamebaiting....every thread eventually turns into a big scapegoating campaign against China and Chinese people. You are just proving my point.

And I have been spectating AF for a while. Non-Koreans (excuding whites) get bashed on K-chat by Korean members (don't try to pin this on chinese members) and no one seems to care.

Please have some dignity and pride and stop blaming someone else for all your problems/actions.


Please show me examples where Koreans bashed on SEA, blacks, hispanics, and other "non whites" as you call it. Your accusations are ludicrous and it's obvious you're trying to paint the entire Korean race as hating on everybody except the whites - to make it look like we're the abnormal ones, when in reality, we only don't like you Chinese nationalists.
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tom2011
post May 29 2011, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ May 30 2011, 10:28 AM) *
I'm warning you. Stop going off topic and flaming. These are strictly your opinions and you are doing nothing for the peace of this board.


How did I go off topic when you're the one who brought up China? I didn't use any flaming, I merely told the truth. It is evil what China is doing with North Korea. I merely stated the obvious. That's considered flaming in China, but not here.
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devils666
post May 29 2011, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (tom2011 @ May 29 2011, 08:31 PM) *
Please show me examples where Koreans bashed on SEA, blacks, hispanics, and other "non whites" as you call it. Your accusations are ludicrous and it's obvious you're trying to paint the entire Korean race as hating on everybody except the whites - to make it look like we're the abnormal ones, when in reality, we only don't like you Chinese nationalists.


There was a huge debate on Korean plastic surgery about the "inferiority of SEA looks". Kochi was the one supporting this NE Asian/Altaic blood that is somehow superior to SE Asians and darker people. I've heard many derogatory comments about "looking SEA" or having darker skin.

I'm part SE Asian and I take offense to all the "NE Asian/Altaic" korean "nazi's".

This post has been edited by devils666: May 29 2011, 08:38 PM
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doggyji
post May 29 2011, 08:38 PM
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Try to provide as much evidence and supporting facts as possible when you want to criticize something. Refrain from throwing biased accusations out of gut feeling in provocative language. Without substantial citations, political debates cannot go very far.

QUOTE (devils666 @ May 29 2011, 09:36 PM) *
There was a huge debate on Korean plastic surgery about the "inferiority of SEA looks". Kochi was the one supporting this NE Asian/Altaic blood that is somehow superior to SE Asians and darker people. I've heard many derogatory comments about "looking SEA" or having darker skin.

I'm part SE Asian and I take offense to all the "NE Asian/Altaic" korean "nazi's".
A huge debate on "inferiority of SEA looks" in this thread?? Sorry, I just don't see it.

This post has been edited by doggyji: May 29 2011, 08:41 PM
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qwerty2010
post May 29 2011, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE (tom2011 @ May 29 2011, 08:25 PM) *
Because no normal country would help feed, supply, and support a maniacal country under Kim Jong Il. China obviously does not want a united Korea under South Korea, which is the logical choice for the most logical people. But since the Chinese nationalists are not logical people other then to serve their selfish interests, they refuse to stop propping up a deadly regime. It's the old Chinese strategy of keep them divided and they will remain weak.



This is off-topic from the discussion here, which is about civility on AF.

QUOTE (tom2011 @ May 29 2011, 08:31 PM) *
Please show me examples where Koreans bashed on SEA, blacks, hispanics, and other "non whites" as you call it. Your accusations are ludicrous and it's obvious you're trying to paint the entire Korean race as hating on everybody except the whites - to make it look like we're the abnormal ones, when in reality, we only don't like you Chinese nationalists.



I think when a staunch group of Koreans who profess they are here to show their dislike for Chinese members, it is inevitable that flaming would ensue.

The onus lies with the party that STARTS the flaming.

If they cannot engage Chinese members without resorting to flaming and bashing and demonstrating their deep dislike for Chinese in general, then I think it is obvious that it is a basic set-up for trouble.

This post has been edited by qwerty2010: May 29 2011, 08:46 PM
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devils666
post May 29 2011, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE (qwerty2010 @ May 29 2011, 08:40 PM) *
This is off-topic from the discussion here, which is about civility on AF.


Although Chan-Ho and Santaklaws are much more subtle - they are worse than Tom for flaming. Someone should seriously report them for flamebaiting. I've washed my hands of those two.
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tom2011
post May 29 2011, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ May 30 2011, 10:36 AM) *
There was a huge debate on Korean plastic surgery about the "inferiority of SEA looks". Kochi was the one supporting this NE Asian/Altaic blood that is somehow superior to SE Asians and darker people. I've heard many derogatory comments about "looking SEA" or having darker skin.

I'm part SE Asian and I take offense to all the "NE Asian/Altaic" korean "nazi's".


He merely said Chinese are SEA origin. I did not read any derogatory comments about looking SEA. Even if he did, that's one guy's opinion on one thread. I don't know whether Chinese are originated from NE, SE, XE, YE, or Timbucktoo, I don't give a $hit where Chinese come from. As I told you, to Koreans, there are two types of people in Korea - there are Koreans, and there are foreigners. That's just about it.
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