To the regular Korean Chat members (non-trolls) read please, Rules and Options

[DOUBLEMINT]

He merely said Chinese are SEA origin. I did not read any derogatory comments about looking SEA. Even if he did, that's one guy's opinion on one thread. I don't know whether Chinese are originated from NE, SE, XE, YE, or Timbucktoo, I don't give a $hit where Chinese come from. As I told you, to Koreans, there are two types of people in Korea - there are Koreans, and there are foreigners. That's just about it.

Not everything is about you,tom.

[qwerty2010]

Although Chan-Ho and Santaklaws are much more subtle - they are worse than Tom for flaming. Someone should seriously report them for flamebaiting. I've washed my hands of those two.

Yes, don't forget tom2011. I basically do not reply at all to Chan-Ho, Santa Klaws and on many occasions Kochi Gachi, when their posts contain only insults. I am happy to engage in civilized discourse with any Korean.

If Korean members want to engage with Chinese members, it is always welcomed, whether we agree or disagree. The terms of engagement, however, need to be firmly set to exclude flaming.

Such requests for rules (eg. extreme accusations such as "China wants to divide and conquer Korea" must be supported by evidence, etc.) and advocating for civility should not be construed as "suffocating with a death grip", however. It is understood that everyone is free to express him or herself BUT within bounds, as in real life.

Chinese members do not harbor the same intense dislike for Koreans in general, even if we disagree.

This post has been edited by qwerty2010: May 29 2011, 08:57 PM

[devils666]

He merely said Chinese are SEA origin. I did not read any derogatory comments about looking SEA. Even if he did, that's one guy's opinion on one thread. I don't know whether Chinese are originated from NE, SE, XE, YE, or Timbucktoo, I don't give a $hit where Chinese come from. As I told you, to Koreans, there are two types of people in Korea - there are Koreans, and there are foreigners. That's just about it.

Don't you see that he was using SEA as a back-handed insult? Even Koreans admit that they're prejudiced against darker Asians i.e. Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, etc...

Another thing I'm sick of is NE Asians usisng SE Asian as an insult. There's nothing wrong with having SEA looks or darker skin.

This post has been edited by devils666: May 29 2011, 08:52 PM

[DOUBLEMINT]

Don't you see that he was using SEA as a back-handed insult? Even Koreans admit that they're prejudiced against darker Asians i.e. Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, etc...

Another thing I'm sick of is NE Asians usisng SE Asian as an insult. There's nothing wrong with having SEA looks or darker skin.

You again,my non-chinese friend.

[tom2011]

Don't you see that he was using SEA as a back-handed insult? Even Koreans admit that they're prejudiced against darker Asians i.e. Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, etc...

Another thing I'm sick of is NE Asians usisng SE Asian as an insult. There's nothing wrong with having SEA looks or darker skin.

Hey, at least we admit we're racist. Chinese on the other hand have severe prejudices against SEA and Indians and blacks that are far worse, but you will never see it as a public issue in China. No see evil, so it doesn't exist is the attitude.

[devils666]

Hey, at least we admit we're racist. Chinese on the other hand have severe prejudices against SEA and Indians and blacks that are far worse, but you will never see it as a public issue in China. No see evil, so it doesn't exist is the attitude.

Again bringing up China. Your OPINIONS are unwarranted and unsubstantiated at all. You've even admitted that you know very little or nothing about Chinese people. Please refrain from flaming and constantly bringing up China.

btw, I'm half SEA(I'm pretty dark) and I did not feel any prejudice in China. No one even knew.

This post has been edited by devils666: May 29 2011, 09:00 PM

[qwerty2010]

You again,my non-chinese friend.

He said he's mixed SEA with Chinese, so maybe his maternal side is SEA, lots of Thais, Malaysians, Indonesians are mixed this way. Many SEA Chinese cannot read or write in Chinese because they are banned from doing so or they just don't have the education infrastructure or opportunities.

I would just take what they type for what it is, anyone can be anybody online. I will only disagree with the contents of the posts, and what they indicate of the poster. I honestly won't insult anyone or suspect their motives unless they are outrageous, eg. "Chinese" trolls who sprout up overnight posting that "China owns Korea", etc.

Hey, at least we admit we're racist. Chinese on the other hand have severe prejudices against SEA and Indians and blacks that are far worse, but you will never see it as a public issue in China. No see evil, so it doesn't exist is the attitude.

Racism is ugly and will surely lead to flame wars. Racism of course exists among Chinese, the difference is the non-Racists on AF in general should try to keep racism in check, as a matter of upholding rules and civility.

Ok, I'm spending too much time on here. I will limit myself to occasional posts. Keep it civil.

This post has been edited by qwerty2010: May 29 2011, 09:08 PM

[DOUBLEMINT]

He said he's mixed SEA with Chinese, so maybe his maternal side is SEA, lots of Thais, Malaysians, Indonesians are mixed this way.

He also said he's 100% chinese. I bet he is gonna say all chinese are mixed so even if he is mixed with SEA,he is still 100% chinese.
But we can all agree he is an unexperienced, inconsistent liar.Didnt even bother to take any online chinese lessons before he decided to pretend chinese.What a loser.

[tom2011]

Again bringing up China. Your OPINIONS are unwarranted and unsubstantiated at all. You've even admitted that you know very little or nothing about Chinese people. Please refrain from flaming and constantly bringing up China.

btw, I'm half SEA and I did not feel any prejudice in China. No one even knew.

I said I don't care where Chinese people came from. I didnt' say I knew very little or nothng about Chinese people. Why can't I bring up China when we're arguing your accusations that Chinese people are being attacked unfairly by Koreans. You are claiming Koreans are racist against non whites, but Chinese are not. I'm just countering and showing your flawed argument has a flaw. How is that a flame bait?

[devils666]

I said I don't care where Chinese people came from. I didnt' say I knew very little or nothng about Chinese people. Why can't I bring up China when we're arguing your accusations that Chinese people are being attacked unfairly by Koreans. You are claiming Koreans are racist against non whites, but Chinese are not. I'm just countering and showing your flawed argument has a flaw. How is that a flame bait?

I never mentioned China actually. I said that SE Asian was being used as an insult by Korean members. I was keeping the conversation about K-chat and YOU decided to bring China into the conversation as a way to point fingers.

This post has been edited by devils666: May 29 2011, 09:14 PM

[tom2011]

I never mentioned China actually. I said that SE Asian was being used as an insult by Korean members. I was keeping the conversation about K-chat and YOU decided to bring China into the conversation as a way to point fingers.

Yes you did bring up China, on post #7, way before I said anything about China.

I think there should also be more sensitivity towards non-Korean and non-White groups as well. For example, there are many flaming and derogatory threads aimed at China and Chinese people. Certain members are constantly bringing up flaim bait topics about China just to instill hatred and chaos even when no one mentioned China. Why is it Ok to attack China yet no one can criticize the west? Also, I've seen negative comments about Blacks, Arabs, Hispanics, and SE Asians on Korean chat.

To be fair, there was nothing wrong with your first post, but it did invite the explanation by Korean members here why they don't like China - and they told you the reason why - they don't like China government and their supporters' policies on the Korean peninsula. You and qwerty took those criticisms personally as a bash against entire Chinese race.

[SantaKlaws]

I'd like to reiterate my point that China is a cause of many serious problems in Korea, and we can discuss these problems as much as Chinese can discuss their own problems in Chinese Chat. You can see tons of threads in Chinese Chat that antagonize other countries, such as the United States. However, you don't so often see any persistent troll harrowing Chinese members about how wrong their views are or how they're a traitor. That's because they've been run off by a moderation policy that is favorably biased towards the Chinese point of view. Well, I guess many of the regular members are fine with that here, recognizing that the Chinese point of view should be respected to some degree in Chinese Chat. However, it should also be respected that the Chinese point of view can be seen as very extreme and repulsive to other peoples in Asia. For instance, the argument for Tibet from the Chinese point of view is very offensive to Koreans and Mongolians because it's connected to the historical context of Korea and Mongolia. Worse yet, these peoples are victimized by similar historical distortions from China, which has caused much outrage in the respective countries.

So you may think you're being defensive by arguing for such things like Tibet, but for others like us, we're being defensive as well from our own perspective. This is what I mean by saying that the Chinese social identity - to which various theories of Chinese history and national boundaries are tied in to - is existentially incompatible with other Asian identities, such as the Korean social identity. Of course, social identities of the respective countries may vary, but I'm talking about the dominant ones here, and in China's case, it's a state-driven expansionist ideology that "invades" other social/historical/national identities and boundaries. This existential incompatibility is the fundamental cause of the problem - what is defensive from the Chinese perspective is offensive from the Korean perspective, and what is defensive from the Korean perspective is offensive from the Chinese perspective. To disguise this fundamental conflict, the Chinese nationalists often use the rhetorics of race, the Asian race, to legitimize their point of view when it is at odds with Koreans and others. This becomes even more severe because China does tend to create a lot of problems in the region, such as empowering rogue states, persisting greedy territorial claims, conducting cyberattacks on other countries, making arrogant and derogatory remarks about other countries, etc. But of course, their attempts tend to backfire because the Korean element of social identities in most Koreans is the dominant one, and China remains to be a serious problem in that social context.

To summarize my points,

The Chinese point of view is existentially incompatible with the Korean point of view, and many others. What this means is that what's "normal" and "right" is very "abnormal" and "wrong" for the other. What you call facts and rational are pure BS and irrational crap in the eyes of others. Some of you have suggested that we "shut up" about China here, in Korean Chat. Well, I suggest an alternative - keep your $hit in Chinese Chat, and don't bring it here. Let us discuss our problems in peace, and may I remind you, participation of Chinese nationalists in these discussions will only make them more extreme and polarized.

This post has been edited by SantaKlaws: May 29 2011, 09:24 PM

[devils666]

I'd like to reiterate my point that China is a cause of many serious problems in Korea, and we can discuss these problems as much as Chinese can discuss their own problems in Chinese Chat. You can see tons of threads in Chinese Chat that antagonize other countries, such as the United States. However, you don't so often see any persistent troll harrowing Chinese members about how wrong their views are or how they're a traitor. That's because they've been run off by a moderation policy that is favorably biased towards the Chinese point of view. Well, I guess many of the regular members are fine with that here, recognizing that the Chinese point of view should be respected to some degree in Chinese Chat. However, it should also be respected that the Chinese point of view can be seen as very extreme and repulsive to other peoples in Asia. For instance, the argument for Tibet from the Chinese point of view is very offensive to Koreans and Mongolians because it's connected to the historical context of Korea and Mongolia. Worse yet, these peoples are victimized by similar historical distortions from China, which has caused much outrage in the respective countries.

So you may think you're being defensive by arguing for such things like Tibet, but for others like us, we're being defensive as well from our own perspective. This is what I mean by saying that the Chinese social identity - to which various theories of Chinese history and national boundaries are tied in to - is existentially incompatible with other Asian identities, such as the Korean social identity. Of course, social identities of the respective countries may vary, but I'm talking about the dominant ones here, and in China's case, it's a state-driven expansionist ideology that "invades" other social/historical/national identities and boundaries. This existential incompatibility is the fundamental cause of the problem - what is defensive from the Chinese perspective is offensive from the Korean perspective, and what is defensive from the Korean perspective is offensive from the Chinese perspective. To disguise this fundamental conflict, the Chinese nationalists often use the rhetorics of race, the Asian race, to legitimize their point of view when it is at odds with Koreans and others. This becomes even more severe because China does tend to create a lot of problems in the region, such as empowering rogue states, persisting greedy territorial claims, conducting cyberattacks on other countries, making arrogant and derogatory remarks about other countries, etc. But of course, their attempts tend to backfire because the Korean element of social identities in most Koreans is the dominant one, and China remains to be a serious problem in that social context.

To summarize my points,

The Chinese point of view is existentially incompatible with the Korean point of view, and many others. What this means is that what's "normal" and "right" is very "abnormal" and "wrong" for the other. What you call facts and rational are pure BS and irrational crap in the eyes of others. Some of you have suggested that we "shut up" about China here, in Korean Chat. Well, I suggest an alternative - keep your $hit in Chinese Chat, and don't bring it here. Let us discuss our problems in peace, and may I remind you, participation of Chinese nationalists in these discussions will only make them more extreme and polarized.

Again, going off topic to somehow bring up flamebait issues on a thread about moderation.

If there were insulting posts in C-Chat about Koreans, I gladly welcome Koreans to counter. What you're saying is that Chinese members (or ANY members) are not allowed to counter your ABSURD claims about China here.

You are seriously making Korean people look very bitter, and hateful. I know most Korean people are not like that. Chinese people DO NOT hate Koreans.

This is not always about China - any mention of Pan-Asianism is also considered a "terrorist" agenda for you. Even if there's no mention of China - you somehow manage to use it as a scapegoat.

Anyone who reads your posts will realize that you are a HATE MONGER.

This post has been edited by devils666: May 29 2011, 09:32 PM

[Jasel]

Im going to close this thread now. And I let it go on as long as it has so people could see an example of what I would like to see less of. Arguments that go absolutely nowhere and minds that are never going to be changed. So try to stick to the guidelines I pointed out, use the ignore feature, and walk away from arguments that wouldn't mean anything even if you won them (which you won't, because it's the internet).

This post has been edited by Jasel: May 29 2011, 09:40 PM