Large Calibre Malay Cannons Options

[Iron Malayan]

Roughly a century after firearms were invented by the Arabs, the Malays began making guns. Evidence of these activities were documented by W Linehan in his paper entitled Some Discoveries on the Tembeling. On the banks of the Tembeling river in peninsula Malaysia he found molds that were used to cast cannons in the 13th or 14th century.

According to the conqueror of Malacca,Alfonso d'Albuquerque, Malaccan gun foundries were as good as those in Germany; This could mean they were better than Portuguese ones but the most powerful guns in those days were made by the Ottoman Turks. When the Portuguese defeated Malacca, they found thousands of cannons including an extraordinarily large one which Alfonso sent to his Hindu ally the Zamorin of Calicut.

Guns produced by Malay kigdoms were of varied quality. The most powerful ones were no doubt made by the wealthiest sultanates. The best Malay cannons had no problem blasting the best European ships out of the water ; for instance the Dutch East Indies Company lost a battleship when they attacked Makassar in 1667 and another one in the 18th century when they attacked a Bugis stronghold in Bintan. Guns made by Makassar were of such high quality they were demanded by the Dutch as part of war reparation payments (even though the war was started by the Dutch).

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/ironmalayan/Untitled-2.jpg)

This cannon was made in 1623 by a Malay kingdom,Singora in what is now southern Thailand. The Siamese conquered Singora in 1687 and used this cannon against the Annamese and Burmese. In 1766 the Burmese overran the Siamese capital Ayuthiya and took the gun to Burma. It was deployed by the Burmese in their three wars against the British.
In 1887 the British defeated the Burmese and brought this cannon to London where it remains to this day.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/ironmalayan/Untitled-1.jpg)

Another southern Thai Malay kingdom that made excellent guns was Pattani.In 1571 they completed the casting of two cannons measuring 22ft 7 in. These guns were instrumental in keeping Pattani victorious against numerous Siamese attacks
for over two hundred years. Pattani was finally defeated by Siam in 1786 and the biggest Pattani guns were taken to Bangkok.One of these cannons,named Seri Negeri fell into the sea while it was being shipped from Pattani.The other one,named Seri Patani is now on display at the Thai Ministry of Defense.

This post has been edited by Iron Malayan: Jan 10 2005, 01:42 AM

[machinist]

informative post. :genius: some of those old cannons are very nice looking.

[flipcombatmedic]

lantakas hmm. it did give the Europeans are rude awakening.

[Iron Malayan]

This gun was made in the same year as the Seri Patani and Seri Negeri but is slightly smaller.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/ironmalayan/Image-08.jpg)

[hypermount]

Knew about the patani cannons but the others.. simply a WOW..

need to find more infos and pics.

[malaccan]

Impressive cannons. Wonder if we have any kept in the Muzium Negara from the old sultanates.

[Iron Malayan]

Last time I went to Muzium Negara, the biggest cannons are all European and all the malay guns are small; giving the false impression that only Europeans made large guns. I don't think those people running Malaysian museums even know that firearms were invented by Arabs;not Europeans or Chinese.

[tommy83]

Firearms was invented by the chinese during Song dynasty.

This post has been edited by tommy83: Jul 11 2005, 05:37 PM

[Iron Malayan]

but guns that shoot spherical metal bullets powered by gunpowder detonation was invented by Arabs in the 13th century

[HangPC2]

(IMG:http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6775/images0cc.jpg)

Secupak Canon Form Ottoman

Ottoman Empire (Sultan Selim II) which Were made to help the Muslim Sultanates Aceh (Sultan Alauddin Riayat Shah)

- 1537-1538, the Ottoman sent 300 troops to the Acehnese, I don't know what they were composed of.

- 1558, 400 Turkish artilery had joined with some 15000 Acehnese troops and an armada of 300 vessels in attack Melaka (Malacca) off the hands of the Portuguese albeit only for a month.

- 1562, an Acehnese ambassador had gone to Istanbul to ask for Turkish help. The Ottoman sent some 500 Turks, a number of projectiles with stone bullets, munitions, engineers and people to handle the big weapons.

But what I had in mind was the planned expedition that Selim II wanted to carry out which was to have some 15 war ships and be comandeered by the admiral Kurtoglu. It was also to be helped by the governerships of Yemen, Aden and Mecca, but that one was never carried out.

The Ottoman Turkish empire was a very influential empire, at least as it was the simbol of the Muslim Caliphate. The success of Suleiman the Magnificent was heard loudly in these areas, with the Sultan of Demak, wanting to conquer Java so as be called, as according to the Portuguese, Manuel Pinto, segundo Turco: "the second Turkish King".

This post has been edited by HangPC2: Jan 13 2007, 06:31 AM

[HangPC2]

Impressive cannons. Wonder if we have any kept in the Muzium Negara from the old sultanates.

Malay Decorated Traditional Gun ''Pemuras''


(IMG:http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1060/image0243ho.jpg)

[Malay_guy]

Is that man wearing armor?

[tangawizi]

Interesting post...I'll never look at cannons in the same way again.

[Betong]

I think in Malaysia we have cannons too. Like the one at Bukit Melawati, Selangor..

[Centurion]

Roughly a century after firearms were invented by the Arabs, the Malays began making guns.

but guns that shoot spherical metal bullets powered by gunpowder detonation was invented by Arabs in the 13th century

I am very interested in how you back your claim that the Arabs "INVENTED FIREARMS". What do you mean by "firearms"?

Here is a definition I found
fire·arm (fīr'ärm')
n. A weapon, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant.

Did Arabs discover gunpowder before the Chinese in the 13th Century? Did they start using explosive missiles prior to 1232 AD? (yes, it's on written record, what is the equivalent Arab written record?)
See - http://monkeytree.org/silkroad/gunpowder/china3.html

Or perhaps the Arabs invented the musket gun before the English (1700s)?
Did they invent the revolver before Samuel Colt (1836)?
Was it a machine gun? A rifle gun?
See - http://inventors.about.com/od/militaryhist.../a/firearms.htm

As far as I can ascertain there is a SCHOOL OF THOUGHT (note it's not a written record, only a hypothesis) that the Arabs were possibly the first to make and use cannons (NOT JUST ANY FIREARM, but a cannon) called madfaa around 1250 AD (in terms of "firearms", Arab cannons still beaten by the Chinese missiles of 1232 AD).
See - http://www.trivia-library.com/b/military-a...-the-cannon.htm

I am not interested in boasting about military inventions or fanciful notions of racial superiority.
I merely want the facts. I don't let emotions sway my knowledge of history. Do you, O Iron Malayan? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by Centurion: Jan 18 2007, 12:24 AM

[HangPC2]

Malay Firearms


Rifled Musket & Pistol

# Pemuras (Malay Decorated Traditional Gun)

# Bedil Istinggar (Flintlock Musket)

# Tarkul


Canon

# Lela Rentaka

# Lela Rambang

# Tahan

# Lada Sicupak (Acheh Canon)

# Nang Liu-Liu (Patani Canon)

# Seri Patani (Patani Canon)

# Seri Negeri (Patani Canon)

This post has been edited by HangPC2: Apr 13 2007, 03:30 AM

[maldini]

ok... malay was good many many century ago... guess this is wat iron malayan trying to bring across....
but in today world... what u r today is more important than all these history.
if u r no better than your past, u should look at mirror and think y and how to improve...
but from what i see and experienced, most of them just bring up the history and be proud with it... but do nothing to reflect themself...

[zenithdoom]

so what if arabs invented firearms before the chinese? they're still not malay... even though they're muslims, arabs are not malays.. :P.... hahaha...

but i thought big guns back then were outdated? the europeans use smaller and portable guns so they can use it on the battlefield?

This post has been edited by zenithdoom: Apr 13 2007, 06:53 AM

[Pink Cream]

so what if arabs invented firearms before the chinese? they're still not malay... even though they're muslims, arabs are not malays.. :P.... hahaha...
but i thought big guns back then were outdated? the europeans use smaller and portable guns so they can use it on the battlefield?

no one even stated malays invented guns.
i'm pretty sure the bigger cannon's were used to bombard fortifications and the like, possibly ships as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Betong]

so what if arabs invented firearms before the chinese? they're still not malay... even though they're muslims, arabs are not malays.. :P.... hahaha...

but i thought big guns back then were outdated? the europeans use smaller and portable guns so they can use it on the battlefield?

Dude what your problem... Feeling insecure towards Malay.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)