King Zhao Mei of Nanyue Options

[qeej]

What is his connection to the Xiong people of Hunan? why do they consider him as part of their history?

@2:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2PNbmA2QE

Nanyue Tomb is the tomb of Zhao Mei, the Nanyue King. Zhao Mei was the second ruler of the short-lived Nanyue Kingdom (c. 2nd century BC) and was the grandson of the general Zhao Tuo of the Qin Dynasty who temporarily unified the region. Zhao Mei titled himself Emperor Wen and built his capital at Panyu, now a southern district of modern Guangzhou.

The tomb was discovered in 1983. Hidden 20 meters (65.6 feet) underground, the tomb is made up of 750 huge stones with colorful murals. Over 1,000 pieces of cultural relics, bronze ware and terra cotta ware in particular, feature the Nanyue Culture (Yue Culture of south China). Also they represent traces of central Chinese culture, the Chu culture of south China, the Bashu culture of southwest China, the Hun culture from the northern grassland, and even foreign cultures.
http://beijinglandscapes.com/news/Tomb-Mus...anyue-King.html


I read it somewhere that some Hmong groups were part of the 100 Yue tribes.

http://news.cultural-china.com/20101110113852.html

[xaithoj]

our ancestors were definitely interacting with the nanyue. the biggest proof is the she people. she people are genetically and linguistically similar to hmong people. they are all over the eastern provinces from guandong (hong kong) north to zhejiang (shanghai). this area is also the ancestral lands attributed to the nanyue.

when we look at the expansion of the hmong ancestors from daxi culture, it takes us east then north like our oral history tells us and makes complete sense geographically. being rice cultivators, our ancestors needed lots of water and flat land (no terracing yet). its reasonable then that they expand along the yangtze east (plenty of water) where they would eventually meet the nanyue's. why then go north and not south? simple, geography. immediately south all along the yangtze are mountains, bad for rice cultivation at the time. to the north are flat lands and big lakes very suitable for rice. if you look at a map of modern china, all along the eastern provinces from the yangtze are huge lakes and big sources of water leading all the way north to the yellow river, perfect to grow rice. no doubt this is the route our ancestors took north where we eventually met up with the chinese.

daxi culture (4500-3000bc) was followed by the qujialing culture (3000-2600bc). qujialing culture reached southern shaanxi, northern jiangxi and southwest henan. our hmong ancestors had reached all the way east and northeast to the longshan culture (3000-2000bc) around the yellow river. distinctive traits of longshan culture are: rice cultivation, walled cities and black pottery (or egg-shell pottery), the same kind discovered in the yangtze river valley, all traits reminiscent of the cultures associated with our ancestors.

http://blog.163.com/photor@126/blog/static...lAdminPriv=true
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qujialing_culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longshan_culture

[souphounavong]

^ Daxi was also contemporary with Yangshao at the Yellow River. There were many similarities in designs and others including potteries.

The finding that Miao people may have more contact with NEA were restricted to Miao Hunan. The Hmong samples did not show significant NEA mtDNA compared to the Miao of Hunan.

[xaithoj]

^ Daxi was also contemporary with Yangshao at the Yellow River. There were many similarities in designs and others including potteries.

The finding that Miao people may have more contact with NEA were restricted to Miao Hunan. The Hmong samples did not show significant NEA mtDNA compared to the Miao of Hunan.

the study you're quoting from was only done on hmong hunan and yunnan mtDNA. from the study of hmong yunnan y-dna, its pretty clear hmong yunnan were probably assimilated in yunnan so it makes since they wouldn't have a lot of northern dna. do you know that southern chinese (cantonese speakers) have more southern mtDNA than hmong do? on atDNA (mix of y-dna and mt-dna) southern hans cluster further away from northern hans than even hmong...something to think about with mtDNA.

something else that i didn't update our y-dna discussion with was that when i went into the actual XLS spreadsheet for the y-dna haplogroups, there were 3 hmong daw guys who carried N1c y-dna for 3/50 or 6% ancestry and one guy who carried Q1a1. no other groups tested positive for these. the report didn't list them cause it only cared about O2 and O3. now google y-dna N1c and Q1a1 and you'll find some very interesting results and discussions about these haplogroups who are traditionally even further north than mongolia and even extend to northwestern europe in the case of N1c.

here's a link to the XLS report with the actual y-dna haplogroups listed. you'll need microsoft excel to open it.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchSingle...ne.0024282.s003

[qeej]

Xai Thoj,

thank you. I remember reading a genetic test about the Hmong and there were few haplo groups that were found uniquely only among the Hmong and nowhere else, but these haplo groups were not reported because the research only focus on O2 and O3.

It's time for up to date information.

Btw, the spread of rice culture. I hope someone has gotten hold of the article "the eastward spread of the Hmong culture" by Li Guo Dong, a scholar studied in Japan. He wrote about how rice cultivation of the Hmong ancestors spread eastward ---- > to the coastal Nanyue, then to the Korean pennisula and Japanese archipelago.