Who built Angkor Wat? Options

[konlovethai]

The killing field in a sweet-melon plantation





A most mysterious event in World’s history is the disappearance of the Varman Dynasty from a greatest Khmer empire at Angkor, nowadays in Cambodia. Many theories for its destruction have been proposed -- ranging from warfare, famine, disease and environmental deterioration. Here, I will propose new theories:

The Varman dynasty was abolished by a slave revolt
The Varman and their people, the ancient Khmer, were referred to by the local people (mostly slaves) at Angkor back then as Siamese.
When the local people were successful in killing/expelling the Siamese off Angkor they re-named the city as Siamreap, meaning Extinction of Siamese.
The Varman relatives fled Angkor to establish Sri Ayodhaya, which later became the capital of the kingdom of Siam.



I will try to support the proposed theories with evidences, reasons, historical contexts as well as common senses.



1) The Varman dynasty had been ruling the magnificent Angkor Empire for around 500 years (since around 900 AD.) but it had disappeared abruptly in 1336 AD.

2) The new king after that was “Trosok Pream” which in Cambodian means “sweet melon.” The traditional suffix “Varman” has never appeared in Cambodian kings’ names again ever since.



3) A most accepted theory for the disappearance of Angkor has been that of its sacking by the invading Siamese Army. Little is known that the spiritual destruction of Angkor had preceded its physical destruction long before that -- and it began in 1336 AD. , the year of the killing field in a sweet melon plantation. This article will propose a new theory and will propose further that Cambodians are not the same group of people as the ancient Khmer who built Angkor.



4) According to the first Chronicle of Cambodia, authored by one of the greatest kings of Cambodia “Nak-Ang-Eng” or Narairacha III (around 1800 AD) --purely Cambodian in his conduct –without as yet any influence of France--Cambodia’s ancestors are this King Sweet-Melon and his son named Nippean-bot.





5) King Sweet-Melon, according to the Chronicle, was formerly a farmer in the royal palace. He grew such a sweet melon that the king gave him a sacred spear in order to fend off thieves who might come to steal the precious melon. One night, the king had been so craving for the melon that he walked onto the melon field to pick one for himself. Mr. Sweet-melon mistook the king for a thief and speared him to death. After that, he took the princess as his wife and ascended the throne.



6) Later Chronicles that were influenced by the ruling French Colony had extended the Cambodian origin up to that of the Varman itself, the Varman whom the Cambodian legendary forefather had erased from the face of Angkor’s history. The extensions were of interest to the French colonialism which was expanding to take more and more territory from Siam, by claiming that these lands were historically linked to the Khmer-Varman empire.



7) Meanwhile sometime later than 1336 AD. at SriAyodhya, along the rim of the Chaophraya river in nowadays Thailand, King U-thong had been busying building his capital from scratches. This city would later become one of the greatest cities on earth, superseding Angkor and even Paris and London, at least in terms of numbers of population.

8) There had been numerous theories proposing the origin of this legendary King of nowadays Thailand. Among others are: He was a son of a Chinese Emperor, He was a rich Chinese merchant from Petchaburi province (Van Vlit’s Chronicles), He was a son of a king from ChiangSaen, A Sultan from Malaya, etc. In this article I am proposing yet another theory that: He was the leader of the Siamese people who were fleeing the “killing field” at Angkor. The killing field ensued from a revolt by the slaves who formed a huge majority at Angkor. And the leader of the slaves was Trosok Pream.



9) The city of Angkor has long been referred to by the Cambodians as “Seamreab”, meaning “annihilation of the Siamese people”. (Seam = siam, reab = flat, no more in existence) This insult ironically and indirectly becomes a strong evidence that the Siamese must have once heavily populated Angkor. ..they were killed and/or expelled away by the dominant slaves in 1336 AD., led by King Sweet Melon, in accordance with the 1st Cambodian Chronicle.





10) According to the record of the now-famous Zhou Da Guan, a China’s commercial envoy member, in 1296 AD., only 40 year before the killing field incident, the city of Angkor was dominated by “slaves”. ......“Most families have more than 100 slaves, some have 20, only the poorest families have none” , he wrote. It is not hard to estimate then that, out of about 1 million population of Angkor, 7 out of 10 were slaves. The rest of them were the King and his royal families, nobles, officials and their families, soldiers and their families, priests, Chinese merchants.



11) SriAyodhya was completed in 1350 AD., 14 years after the killing field incident. This was a very reasonable time span to build a city to accommodate around 2-300 thousand population. (This number was estimated by numerous scholars from various historical evidences and in my opinion is credible on historical contexts, for example in 1352 AD., only 2 years afterward, U-thong invaded Angkor; he must have had a large population base to form his army to fight the huge Cambodian army back then.)





12) The most relevant question to be asked is that: where did these 2-300 thousands come from? The most popular theory which held that they migrated from the nearby city of U-thong has now proved to be flawed since the city had been voided 2-300 hundred years before that. Even if so, U-thong city would have been too small to accommodate 300,000 population. In fact there was no other cities in the vicinity of 300 kilometers of SriAyodhya to have such number of population, except Angkor.



13) Zhou Da Guan writes further that the local people speak a “different language” from those of officials and scholars; ...their skins are very dark but you can find people whose skins are as white as jade among the nobles; ...they don’t know how to produce silk; ..nor do they know how to stitch and darn with a needle and thread.







14) Let’s pause and think -- How could the majority of people who did not know how to weave elaborated clothing with a loom, did not know how to stitch and darn with a needle and thread, would know how to dig, move and carve immense stones to erect the magnificent Angkor? The only logical answer is that the stone temple of Angkor was designed and managed by another tribe of people who held more advanced technology. And within the vicinity around Angkor there were only the Chamese and the Siamese.



15) Given that the Chamese were traditional enemy and that Angkor Wat, Bapuan, Bayon were built in the same style as Phimai castle in Phimai which was completed some 50 years before Angkor. I am now proposing a new theory that: the people who conceived, designed and managed all the building of the stone temples of Angkor was the Siamese from Phimai (who had been blamed by most western scholars as, ironically, the one who demolished the greatness of Angkor.)







16) But these Siamese then were not totally the same people as the present day Thai. In fact they were referred to by the northern Thais as Khom. But apparently the Cambodian people of Ankor back then called them by the name of Siam (pronounced as seam in single syllable).





17) Zhou Da Guan, continued on his record: “The Siamese women did know how to weave silk with loom as well as stitch and darn with a needle. They brought silk worms and mulberry trees from the land of Siam.”



18) The Siamese had not been well known to be keen on mercantilism . But why did they appear at Angkor in such a number, so many so that Zhou had noticed their weaving ability? The answer is perhaps that they went there to accompany their families who were the ruling elites of Angkor, officials, scholars, soldiers and perhaps even some merchants. Some of them were also ‘as white as jade’ since the Siamese, then as is now, were of mixed races.



19) The connections of the ruling elites at Angkor and the Siamese are numerous, indicating that Lopburi, Pimai and Angkor were related not only by interests but also by blood. To mention just a few:

19.1 Suryavarman I is believed to be a Buddhist . Where did he get Buddhism idea from, other than Phimai? His origin was unknown either. But he had fought hard in battle for some years for the throne. It is very possible that Phimai, a predominantly Buddhist culture, sent an armed forces to establish him as a buddhist king? That was why he built Phimai castle at Pimai, not at Angkor.

19.2 Chayavarman VI is now widely accepted as coming from the Korat plateau’s city of Pimai. He built a 220 kilometer super-highway which linked Pimai and Angkor. He also finished the building of Pimai stone temple which was initiated by S-I.

19.3 Most important thing in connection with C-6 is that he claimed to have descended from his mythical father named “Kambhu Svayambhuva” and a mother named “Mera.” These two words, one was his first name and the second was his second name, had perhaps been transformed into two of the most confusing words, namely, those of Kambhuja and Syam (Siam)

19.4 Svayambhuva, was in fact another name for Bhraman. Morever this name had appeared in Pallava, Sanskrit, Pali -stone inscriptions all over the “Land Zhenla” area from wat Pu to Ubonrajatani to Srithep since about the 6th AD. I am thus inclined to believe that C-6 had ascended the throne with the help of Pimai’s army. Phimai troops must have remained in Angkor for a long time to assure stability, so much so that families members from Pimai came to accompany them, bringing silk weaving technology along with them (Pimai has been famous for her supreme silk weaving technology even nowadays.) To accommodate the extreme hardship of family migrations then C-6 ordered the building of the super-highway. The Pimai soldiers and their families were then honorably referred to by the local people as the “Swayam” (descendants of Swayambhuva) which later shortened to “Syam” and later as “Seam” to suit the tongues of the local Cambodians.

19.5 Some analyst even conclude that C-6 spent most of his time at Pimai, not at Angkor.

19.6 Suryavarman II is believed to have come from Lopburi. His name and suffix “II” indicates some relations to S-I, hence Phimai. The fact that he is the only Varman king to worship Vishnu rather than Shiva is still a puzzle to historians. IMO this, too, could be linked to the influence of Lopburi’s and Phimai’s Buddhism. S-I had testified before him that Buddhism would not work out well in the predominantly hindu society, so S-II learned from S-I’s mistakes and employed a new subtle tactic. One should realize that the Buddha was also believed by the Hindu to be the 9th reincarnation of Vishnu. So by adopting Vishnu S-II could win over the minds of both beliefs and that was what making him one of Angkor’s greatest kings, second perhaps only to Chayavarman VII.





20) Here comes accounts of the greatest king of them all—Chayavarman VII. Inscriptions about his origin were vague. Some speculated that he spent his early life in Champa; but I beg to be different for I think that he was from Pimai. The evidences for this are numerous, mostly contextual:

20.1He came from nowhere to expel away the Cham invaders who had occupied Angkor for 4 years. Had he come from Champa, where would he recruit his huge army to recapture Angkor in 4 years?; from the Cham itself?

20.2Only logical answer is : he came from Pimai. As in the case of C-6, Pimai , again, helped him to expel Champa , most likely with support from Lopburi, as is evident by the bas relief on Angkor walls, depicting Lopburi and “Syam Kuk” soldiers side by side.

20.3Do not forget also that C6, S2 and C7 are linked by blood through the Mahendhrapura dynasty and that the founder is C6 who was from Phimai.

20.4 C-7 became a most devout Buddhist. Whose influence was that?, Champa? No way. Because Champa’s culture back then was dominantly hinduistic with some initial Islamic influences. It was impossible for C-7 to have been nurtured in such environments and later became a devout Buddhist.

20.5 After his ascent to greatness, he rewarded Phimai with a renovation of the super-highway, several hundreds of mini-hospitals and rest areas (arokaya-sala) were erected along the highway. His stone monuments were found deep under grounds, not surprisingly in both Angkor and Pimai. These renovations were to facilitate more migration of the Svayamese from Pimai to reunite with their relatives (soldiers, officers, nobles) in Angkor.

20.6 All of the mentioned evidences point to the fact that C-7 was from Pimai. He was also a grand son of the great forefather “Svayam”.



21) One of the most amazing thing that have been hitherto looked over is that the Cambodian people today still count their numbers the same way as recorded by Zhou Da Guan: They count only to 5. For 6 they pronounce it as 5-1, 7 as 5-2 and so on. Counting system and its pronunciation, in my opinion, is the strongest evidence of a cultural linkage. The fact that the ancient Varman and the U-thong people of Ayodhaya used the same counting system and the alphabets from 1-10 were exactly the same, based on a base 10 numerals, at least confirms that they were of different tribes from the Cambodian.



22) The Dhevaraja (God-King) concept is the most prominent feature of the Varman dynasty. King Sweet-Melon , being ascended from a slave class by killing off the Varman, certainly wouldn’t dare claim to be one of such a highly prestigious origin. Turning a crisis into an opportunity, he established himself as a new truly Cambodian king who is “in touch” with the people. That was why he was highly regarded as the legendary forefather of the Cambodia race, as later chronicled by King Nag-Ong-Eng.





23) The dhevaraja traditions, however, had been long rooted in Khmer culture and should not be as easily abolished by a mere spearing of a Varman king. Its seed had been brought to and sprouted again at SriAyodhya. The royal name for King U-Thong is “Rama-I” who was “King of Ayodhya”. According to the Ramayana Epic of India, Rama was none other than the 8th reincarnation of Vishnu, a mythical king of a mythical heavenly city named Ayodhya.





24) Raja-supth (The royal language) is required for any Thai to address their King. This tradition has not been changed much since the time of early SriAyodhya. The language is very refined: mostly a mixture of Sanskrit and Khom (ancient Khmer ). This is another strong evidence that king U-Thong was from Angkor. He was a Khom (ancient khmer), what other languages would we expect him to speak to his people? So he spoke Khom to them. Later, the language was used by the court as the sacred language of the dhevaraja; this was a good strategy in governing the kingdom.





25) Early SriAyudhya literatures had been recorded with a mixture of Thai, Khom, Pali, Sanskrit. These are evident in the books of “Ong-karn-Chaeng-Nam” and the “Li-lit-yuan-paii”, for examples. These are additional evidences that the early Ayodhayians were originally from Angkor but later mixed with the affluence of the Thai- (and mon-, and laos-) speaking people and transform into the present-day Thai people.



26) The first Westerner to discover the ruin of Angkor were not the French, but the Portuguese, in around 1600 AD. They recorded that the local people testified that Angkor had been built by foreigners and the Portuguese concluded that these foreigners were the ones who built SriAyodhya.



27) The naming of the various Prasats at Angkor are very interesting for they are very Siamese; signifying that the kings who named them must have had strong links with the Siamese or perhaps the Siamese themselves.



First of all Angkor Wat: Angkor is a variation of Nakara in Sanskrit but Wat is simply “temple” in Siamese. Angkor Wat is then “temple city.”
Angkor Thom: most scholars translate Thom as ‘big’; but I think Thom here is rather a variation of Tham, a siamese rendition of Dhamma in Pali. So Angkor Thom is really “the city of Dhamma.” It is unthinkable that a Dhammic king like C-7 who built such a magnificent city would have named his city by a ‘little’ name such as ‘big city.” Moreover, the spelling of Thom is also exactly the same spelling of Tham in Pali. (note that only the Siamese used Pali.)
NeakPean (NakPan in Siamese) : It means “coiled by Naka (a mythical snake)” The shortening of Sanskrit words such as Naka into “Nak” was a typical Siamese style founded all over in their language. (Raja= Raj, Rama=Ram, Kasatriya=Kasat, Parama= Borom, etc.)
PhimeanAkas: (PimanAkas in Siamese ) the word Piman was a pali rendition of Vimana in Sanskrit. Akas was also a shortening of a formerly longer word (perhaps Akasa : thin air, heaven ). The change of V in Sanskrit to P was also unique in Siamese—a Pali influence.
Prea..... (Phra... in Siamese): Here again the word Phra is uniquely very Siamese: a prefix for something sacred. This was a Siamese rendition of Vra in Sanskrit. There are so many prasarts beginning with Phra such as PreaKand, PreaPalilay, PreaRup – some are understood readily in Siamese.
Ta…(Ancestor, or Eye) : such as TaProm, TaKeaw
PakSiJamKrong: (Bird in cage) : Paksi is bird in Sanskrit but JamKrong is Siamese.
TepPanom (Respecting Angel): very Siamese, especially Tep is a siamese rendition of Teva in Sanskrit. Here we have both the shortening style and the P in place of V style.
ChauSayTevada (Linage of angel): all Siamese
Even Bayon might be related since Ba is Learned One in Isan-siamese and Yon is Looking. So Bayon could mean LearnedOne Looking. LearnedOne here is the Buddha whose 216 giant stone faces are Looking all over.
Most names of the prasarts at Angkor wat and Angkor thom are very related to Siamese language. Only a few are not readily discernable; like panom-bakeng, Thomanon.





There are still several more evidences in recorded history, contexts, archaeological artifacts, arts, cultures, languages as well as plain common senses to help us to conclude that the ancient Khmer people who built the great Angkor stone temples are not of the same tribe as the present day Cambodians (2011 AD). Quite to the opposite, these mysterious group of people were evidently exterminated by the revolting slaves who formed the majority in Angkor population by a margin of 7:3. I am certain that there would be many more evidences to support my proposed theory coming forth in the future as our minds are no longer blocked by a curtain of pre-conception.



I am also well aware that it is difficult to accept this new theory about Angkor’s past because the French scholastic machine, sponsored by her colonial wealth, had planted quite a strong scholastic root that already grew so deep.



As to the Cambodian people I do not mean to insult their pride; but historical facts sometimes are hard to swallow. We should learn from it constructively in order to not repeating its past cruelty in our present time.



...Tawit Chitsomboon (Feb. 20th , 2011)

tawit.boon@gmail.com

[NoKhmen]

Khmers say Giants built it.
Thai and Lao say Khom (ancient human) built it.

[Bingbing5555]

Khmers say Giants built it.
Thai and Lao say Khom (ancient human) built it.

You don't speak for us. You psycho.

This post has been edited by Bingbing5555: Oct 22 2011, 10:07 PM

[konlovethai]

You don't speak for us. You psycho.

Hey!! Lao Gay in Usa.

Translate Lao language this for me.

Go ask your father.

it mean.


ຂ້ອຍວ່າ ມັນເປັນເລື້ອງທໍາມະດາ

ຄົນໄທ ມີປະມານ ເຈັດສິບລ້ານຄົນ

ຖ້າມີຄົນບໍ່ດີແບບນີ້ ຢູ່ຈັກ ສອງສາມຄົນ

ມັນກໍ່ຄົງຈະບໍ່ເສີຍຫາຍຫຍັງຫຼາຍ

ສ່ວນຄົນລາວ, ມັກເວົ້າແຕ່ວ່າ ເປັນຄົນ ທີ່ມີຄວາມໂອບເອື້ອອາລີ, ແຕ່ໃນຄວາມຈິງແລ້ວ

ຍັງມີຫຼາຍຄົນ ທີ່ມີນິໃສ ແບບປ່າເຖື່ອນ ຕີລູກ ຕີເມີຍ

ອັນນີ້ແຫຼະເພິ່ນເອິ້ນວ່າ: ພວກຫຼົງໂຕເອງ

This post has been edited by konlovethai: Oct 22 2011, 10:26 PM

[NoKhmen]

You don't speak for us. You psycho.

You are not even a Lao nor speak Lao.

We do know Lao say Khom built Angkor wat same as Thai do, You can ask Khonlovethai for this.

[ladyboyfarang]

my khmer ancestors built angkor wat.

[KhmerBoi]

The killing field in a sweet-melon plantation


2) The new king after that was “Trosok Pream” which in Cambodian means “sweet melon.” The traditional suffix “Varman” has never appeared in Cambodian kings’ names again ever since.

without wasting my time much read all your full crap just answer the very basic question.

If you really that good researcher!! could you explain us about the story of
Preah Ko Preah Keo base in Khmer and in India legend? As well Neav Trorsok Pream base in Khmer and Burmese legend?

This post has been edited by KhmerBoi: Oct 23 2011, 08:41 AM

[Khmerlion]

Interesting thesis. Sadly its a secret,'cause we don't know too much 'bout what real happens.

[mushrooms]

Khmers say Giants built it.
Thai and Lao say Khom (ancient human) built it.

Khmers now do not say giants built it. This was according to what some local peasants say from 100~200 years ago that were uneducated, not what educated ones say. The people of that time that were well versed in royal culture or religioun would probably know Cambodian legend states Preah Pisnukar designed it under Preah Ketu Mala. Don't expect poor uneducated pesants to know so much. They lead a simple life in the rice paddies around Siem Reap (not a major city in 1800s at all, but a very sparsley populated area then). Stop reiterating what uneducated peasants say, that is being manipulative.

If I go ask an uneducated Thai person living in the jungle something, I'm not going to go repeating it like its commonly believed by Thais. Dohoho. Manipulative mentality you have there.

[NoKhmen]

Khmers now do not say giants built it. This was according to what some local peasants say from 100~200 years ago that were uneducated, not what educated ones say. The people of that time that were well versed in royal culture or religioun would probably know Cambodian legend states Preah Pisnukar designed it under Preah Ketu Mala. Don't expect poor uneducated pesants to know so much. They lead a simple life in the rice paddies around Siem Reap (not a major city in 1800s at all, but a very sparsley populated area then). Stop reiterating what uneducated peasants say, that is being manipulative.

If I go ask an uneducated Thai person living in the jungle something, I'm not going to go repeating it like its commonly believed by Thais. Dohoho. Manipulative mentality you have there.

We are living in modern time. Sure, if asking Khmer in Cambodia they would say their ancestors built it becos they learn modern history. But if you ask people in the past, people who really lived Cambodia back then, they surely answered that ones who had super-natural power built it; giants, deities, Gods, they are just same thing. Today if you go ask old Khmers people they would answer un-human built it. It's in Khmer myth.

[NoKhmen]

without wasting my time much read all your full crap just answer the very basic question.

If you really that good researcher!! could you explain us about the story of
Preah Ko Preah Keo base in Khmer and in India legend? As well Neav Trorsok Pream base in Khmer and Burmese legend?

what is Neav?

Burmese legend??? really??? Why won't you share your information with us? Let's search the truth.

[mushrooms]

We are living in modern time. Sure, if asking Khmer in Cambodia they would say their ancestors built it becos they learn modern history. But if you ask people in the past, people who really lived Cambodia back then, they surely answered that ones who had super-natural power built it; giants, deities, Gods, they are just same thing. Today if you go ask old Khmers people they would answer un-human built it. It's in Khmer myth.

Look my point is, you need to stop reiterating what poor peasants from 200 years ago are saying as what Cambodian believe as a whole.

There is a difference between educated people and poor peasants. The peasants are more likely to be superstitious and come to logic out of the blue.

During that time, those who are educated would know it is not just built by any gods or giants. It was built by Preah Ket Mealea and architect Preah Pisnukar according to legend. Preah Ket Mealea is later identified in history as Suryavarman II.

[NoKhmen]

Look my point is, you need to stop reiterating what poor peasants from 200 years ago are saying as what Cambodian believe as a whole.

There is a difference between educated people and poor peasants. The peasants are more likely to be superstitious and come to logic out of the blue.

During that time, those who are educated would know it is not just built by any gods or giants. It was built by Preah Ket Mealea and architect Preah Pisnukar according to legend. Preah Ket Mealea is later identified in history as Suryavarman II.

It's just same story, same myth, isn't it? Deitie, Giants, Preah Ket Mealea, are all unidentified highly intelligent people, maybe human or gods. Old Khmers said giants built it, doesn't mean the real BIG un-human from outer space. It's just mean OTHER people who were wiser or higher than them. I think you lack of SEAn sense of thinking.

[mushrooms]

It's just same story, same myth, isn't it? Deitie, Giants, Preah Ket Mealea, are all unidentified highly intelligent people, maybe human or gods. Old Khmers said giants built it, doesn't mean the real BIG un-human from outer space. It's just mean OTHER people who were wiser or higher than them. I think you lack of SEAn sense of thinking.

Preah Ket Mealea is believed to be god-king from that time. You were trying to say that Cambodians did not think it was built by Cambodians. But Preah Ket Mealea, even though regarded as deity is still considered to be Cambodian royalty. Mmkay?

[NoKhmen]

Preah Ket Mealea is believed to be god-king from that time. You were trying to say that Cambodians did not think it was built by Cambodians. But Preah Ket Mealea, even though regarded as deity is still considered to be Cambodian royalty. Mmkay?

This is what I got..

"Most of them knew little about the real meaning of Pisnokar. Only through the Khmer legend they believed him as the angelic architect who had the power in the building of Angkor Wat and making the Sacred Sword to the king named Preah Keat Mealea.

They also believed that Pisnokar was the Guru's spirit of all Khmer artisans or craftsmen to be received the offerings through " Pithi Reap Pisnokar " ( the ceremony of Pisnokar )."

It looks like Khmers believe Angkor creater is not a human but God-being.

[NoKhmen]

Ok I got it, Khmer Ponakar = Phra Visavakam พระวิศวกรรม in Thai, Hindu god of creators. We use this god name as engineer career.

Engineer = Visavakorn วิศวกร
Engineering = Visavakarm Sastra วิศวกรรมศาสตร์

Phra Visvakam พระวิศวกรรม


From Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishvakarman

Vishwakarma
The divine architect of Universe, Craftsmen and architects


So we can conclude that Khmer legend says a Hindu god, Vishvakarman built Angkor Wat.

This post has been edited by NoKhmen: Oct 23 2011, 10:40 PM

[mushrooms]

Stop being manipulative and twisting things around.

Preah Pisnukar and Preah Ket Mealea are, according to legend, believed to be part deity but exist in Cambodian history as the king and architect.


They are not Indian gods ok.

According to the legend. Preah Ket Mealea was the son of a Cambodian queen that was impregnated by Indra. And Preah Pisnukar is the son of a Cambodian artist who had a union with an angel that Indra sent to live on earth as her punishment for picking flowers.

YOUR point was that Cambodians then did not believe that Cambodians built Angkor Wat and attributed it to random gods or other things. But in esscense, the legend states they are built by Cambodians, at least half-Cambodian, half-deity. Dohoho. Give up already.



Those gods you posted above do not share teh same back story. OK?

This post has been edited by mushrooms: Oct 23 2011, 11:18 PM

[NoKhmen]

Stop being manipulative and twisting things around.

Preah Pisnukar and Preah Ket Mealea are, according to legend, believed to be part deity but exist in Cambodian history as the king and architect.


They are not Indian gods ok.

According to the legend. Preah Ket Mealea was the son of a Cambodian queen that was impregnated by Indra. And Preah Pisnukar is the son of a Cambodian artist who had a union with an angel that Indra sent to live on earth as her punishment for picking flowers.

YOUR point was that Cambodians then did not believe that Cambodians built Angkor Wat and attributed it to random gods or other things. But in esscense, the legend states they are built by Cambodians, at least half-Cambodian, half-deity. Dohoho. Give up already.



Those gods you posted above do not share teh same back story. OK?

really?

actually Pisnokar/Pisnukar is Indian God Visva-karman.

II. KHMER' S SOURCES

In Cambodia, the name " Visva-karman became " Vissa-kamma Deva Putra " and was usually known as " Bisnukara " the builder of Angkor Wat which looked like the Indra's stable in heaven. It was built for the king " Preah Kaet Mealea " or also called " Preah Bat Suriya-varman II ". According to the same legend named " Lboek Nokor Wat ", he was also known as the Sacred-sword's maker to that king too.That sword was later on, thrown away to the Tonle Sap Lake for reason it became very small as a feather.

For the Khmer, Pisnokar was regarded as a secondary god who played a role less important than " Indra, Shiva, or Vishnu ".Instead of depicting with four (4) hands, they had added four ( 4) more because the more the hands Pisnokar had the more powerful he was. However, many concepts had been replaced from the word Pisnokar to : - Vaddhaki ( Carpenter ) or - Suvannakar ( Jeweler ). Instead of using a Pali word Suvannakara, the Khmers have adopted the Thai word " Thong " ( gold ) by saying " Cheang Tong " ( Jewelers ) or " Rong Tong " ( Jewelry shop ).

Even if we have used different concepts, the ceremony is still called " Pithi Reap Pisnokar " ( Pisnokar ceremony ). That ceremony is performed differently from place to place, from region to region. Sometimes there is a nuance from one master to another according to the needs, the time and place, the kind of the job or the work they are going to do. So, in Cambodia there is no unity for the performance of that Pisnokar ceremony.

If you Khmer really built it why there are no solid evidence but many myth tales saying/implying foreigners/superpower built it, not the Khmer themselves?

[NoKhmen]

I just known that in Thai Phra Visawakarm is same as Pra Visnukam

พระวิศวกรรม หรือเรียกได้อีกหลายชื่อว่า พระวิษณุกรรม พระวิสสุกรรม พระเวสสุกรรม หรือ พระเพชรฉลูกรรม เป็น เทวดานายช่างใหญ่ของพระอินทร์ ตามตำนานกล่าวว่า เป็นผู้สร้างเครื่องมือ สิ่งของต่าง ๆ ให้เกิดขึ้น และเป็นแบบอย่างให้กับมนุษย์สืบมา

Visanukarm can pronounce Pisanukarm in Thai.

It's same word of Khmer's Pisnokar/Pisnukar.

I doubt that maybe your legend tale just created recently? How old is it?

[SabaiSabai]

The Syamese built Angkor Wat

"Khmers" had not been invented yet