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3 Korean Cultural Properties Added to UNESCO List
haohao
post Nov 30 2011, 01:35 AM
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Korea's martial art taekkyon and tightrope walking received world intangible heritage status from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) on Monday, the world body said.

In a meeting in Bali, Indonesia, the UNESCO Intergovernmental Committee for the Safeguarding of the Intangible Cultural Heritage added the Korean assets "taekkyon" and "jultagi" (tightrope walking) to the intangible list, it said.

They were among the six cultural traditions promoted by South Korea for UNESCO registration.

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gardenslave
post Dec 6 2011, 09:20 AM
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Whoahhh, this is not Korean tightrope walking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-A-HBDWedE

This is self-inflicting extreme torture. The guy's got unduly concentration and balls of steel.
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TruthNeverKnown
post Dec 7 2011, 01:19 AM
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QUOTE (gardenslave @ Dec 6 2011, 10:20 AM) *
Whoahhh, this is not Korean tightrope walking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-A-HBDWedE

This is self-inflicting extreme torture. The guy's got unduly concentration and balls of steel.

Actually it looks very interesting and impressive, the performer might wear some protections in side.
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gardenslave
post Dec 7 2011, 10:23 AM
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QUOTE (TruthNeverKnown @ Dec 7 2011, 02:19 AM) *
Actually it looks very interesting and impressive, the performer might wear some protections in side.


For a professional like him I think he would shun any protection and grit his teeth and bear it, just for the sake of the audience.

I would be glad if I wasn't at the front of the audience watching because I would've yell out, "Oowwww!!!! Uuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!! Aiiiiiiiiiii!!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Could ruin his concentration and cause him to fall. That would be very embarrassing. He might attack me with his balls of steel.




This is impressive also. I guess for a girl she wouldn't be able to do that trick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkSxZn6EwQE...feature=related
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unko
post Dec 7 2011, 10:10 PM
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Ehh, Taekkyon is ongoing propaganda and Korean martial arts revisionist history. Dislike.
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doggyji
post Dec 8 2011, 01:54 AM
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The tightrope walking (Jultagi) has an aspect of a comedy. The performer usually crack jokes on the rope.

QUOTE (unko @ Dec 7 2011, 10:10 PM) *
Ehh, Taekkyon is ongoing propaganda and Korean martial arts revisionist history. Dislike.
What about Taekkyon is even "propaganda"?

The most comprehensive military training manual during the Joseon Dynasty is 武藝圖譜通志. This manual was officially compiled in 1790 under the order of the king to improve standardized military training. The first volume is based on 武藝諸譜 written in 1598. The methodology of 武藝諸譜 is in turn based on 紀效新書 written by Ming General 戚继光.

Taekkyeon/Taekkyon was not a military art but a combat game/sport like Ssireum in Joseon. That's why it was recorded as a type of "戱" as in 手搏戱. The oldest relevant term 手搏 was used in various records for many centuries referring to some sort of bare-hand combat. How exactly the activity called 手搏 might have changed over time from the earliest form is unclear. 手搏 is related to Taekkyon according to an encyclopedia called 才物譜 (1798) written by 李晩永/李成之. "手搏爲卞 角力爲武 若今之탁견(Takkyeon)". FYI, he used Hangul for some proper nouns. Taekkyeon is described in more details in 海東竹枝 (1925) written by 崔永年.

QUOTE
托肩戱 (Tak kyeon Hee)

舊俗有脚術相對而立互相蹴倒有三法最下者蹴其腿善者托其肩有飛脚術者落其髻以此或報仇或賭奪愛嬉自法官禁之今無是戱名之曰탁견

百技神通飛脚術
輕輕掠過髮簪高
鬪花自是風流性
一奪貂蟬意氣豪


American ethnographer Stewart Culin described Taekkyon in "Korean Games" (1895).

QUOTE
Htaik kyen-ha-ki is a combat between two players, chiefly with the feet. They take their positions with their feet apart, facing each other, and each endeavors to kick the other's foot from under him. A player may take one step backward with either foot to a third place. His feet, therefore, always stand in one of three positions. One leads with a kick at one of his opponent's legs. He moves that leg back and kicks in turn. A high kick is permitted, and is caught with the hands. The object is to throw the opponent.


When it almost died out, Song Deok Ki revived it after liberation.

大快圖 (1836) drawn by 劉淑 who was a court painter.



This post has been edited by doggyji: Dec 8 2011, 02:00 AM
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unko
post Dec 9 2011, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (doggyji @ Dec 8 2011, 01:54 AM) *
What about Taekkyon is even "propaganda"?

The most comprehensive military training manual during the Joseon Dynasty is 武藝圖譜通志. This manual was officially compiled in 1790 under the order of the king to improve standardized military training. The first volume is based on 武藝諸譜 written in 1598. The methodology of 武藝諸譜 is in turn based on 紀效新書 written by Ming General 戚继光.

Taekkyeon/Taekkyon was not a military art but a combat game/sport like Ssireum in Joseon. That's why it was recorded as a type of "戱" as in 手搏戱. The oldest relevant term 手搏 was used in various records for many centuries referring to some sort of bare-hand combat. How exactly the activity called 手搏 might have changed over time from the earliest form is unclear. 手搏 is related to Taekkyon according to an encyclopedia called 才物譜 (1798) written by 李晩永/李成之. "手搏爲卞 角力爲武 若今之탁견(Takkyeon)". FYI, he used Hangul for some proper nouns. Taekkyeon is described in more details in 海東竹枝 (1925) written by 崔永年.



American ethnographer Stewart Culin described Taekkyon in "Korean Games" (1895).



When it almost died out, Song Deok Ki revived it after liberation.

大快圖 (1836) drawn by 劉淑 who was a court painter.



Wherever there's holes that can be filled from questions that have been asked it seems someone comes up with an answer for them.

1. Karate's kata do not actually contain many of it's kicks, where did they come from. Taekkyon practitioners have propagated from Taekkyon.

2. Why does Korea not have Martial Arts like Japan? Taekkyon practitioners have propagated they did, but it was banned by Japanese and almost died out.

3. Modern renditions of Taekkyon actually contain an obvious reverse influence from TKD.

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doggyji
post Dec 9 2011, 11:33 PM
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QUOTE (unko @ Dec 9 2011, 07:21 PM) *
Wherever there's holes that can be filled from questions that have been asked it seems someone comes up with an answer for them.

1. Karate's kata do not actually contain many of it's kicks, where did they come from. Taekkyon practitioners have propagated from Taekkyon.

2. Why does Korea not have Martial Arts like Japan? Taekkyon practitioners have propagated they did, but it was banned by Japanese and almost died out.

3. Modern renditions of Taekkyon actually contain an obvious reverse influence from TKD.
Why does modern Korea not have old martial arts like in Japan? This question has a weird premise. One can ask that question to most countries in the world. Soldiers everywhere have routinely practiced how to fight since the beginning of human history. Any systematic way of military training is by definition a martial art in a broad sense. Most times, they did not create special names, schools, branches, rules and continue the style for a long period of time. When new combat technologies became available, it was normal to forget about old ways. In Korea's case, the last formally trained army was dismissed in 1907 after Imperial Japan took over Korea. After decades of discontinuity, the first body of modern Korean army was born in the Republic of Korea.

To add more context, Joseon did not go through bloody warring times like the Sengoku period in Japan. The Korean peninsula had been well-unified under the central government since the very beginning in the late 14th C. Joseon was the longest-ruling Confucian dynasty promoting a very static society. Martial prowess was not specially regarded. Learning combat skills was simply one of the jobs out there for military people, not a life or death matter of the nation. The first major wakeup call was the massive invasion from Japan led by Toyotomi Hideyoshi in the 16th C. After such big-time wars, Joseon felt the necessity to improve their military training. They realized they were too dependent on archery. That's why they began publishing standardized military training manuals as I've said earlier for the national army. Taekkyon isn't in this picture. It wasn't something formally practiced in military training. It was one of the street combat games. It seems there was sometimes a gambling element involved in it and the authority tried to ban it as recorded in 海東竹枝

One question you raised is how close Modern-day Taekkyon is to, say, the style practiced a hundred years ago. Song Deok Ki who was born in 1893 was regarded as the main preserver of Taekkyon. There's nothing wrong if the sport incorporates new elements based on the old style.

This post has been edited by doggyji: Dec 9 2011, 11:37 PM
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chiuchimu
post Dec 10 2011, 01:43 AM
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QUOTE (unko @ Dec 9 2011, 08:21 PM) *
1. Karate's kata do not actually contain many of it's kicks, where did they come from. Taekkyon practitioners have propagated from Taekkyon.

What are you trying to say? Taekkyon exponents say Karate kicks come from Taekkyon? Never heard that one before. Also, Karate is a Chinese influenced martial arts that the Okinawan developed a long time ago before Okinawa became a part of Japan. True Japanese martial arts are bushijitsu, Jujitsu, sumo etc... Karate IS a Japanese martial arts now, but it wasn't invented in Japan.




QUOTE (unko @ Dec 9 2011, 08:21 PM) *
2. Why does Korea not have Martial Arts like Japan? Taekkyon practitioners have propagated they did, but it was banned by Japanese and almost died out.

As I understand it, this is true. Japan did ban traditional Korean martial arts and promoted the practice of Japanese martial arts like Karate, Judo, Kendo and Jujitsu. That doesn't mean the traditional arts went extinct. However, I have no doubt that these Japanese arts had a deep impact on some of revivals of traditional Korean martial arts.

Here are some examples I find similar:Not knowing if all/any are considered traditional:

Hopkido - Aikido( I think relationship is openly understood)
Kumdo - Kendo( Debated fiercely on both sides)
Tae kwondo - Karate( Debated and compared better)
Yundo - judo( relation understood but comparisons on which is better)

I see no problem in martial arts adopting foreign techniques. I'm Japanese but I practice Muay Thai( like many Japanese. embarassedlaugh.gif )




QUOTE (unko @ Dec 9 2011, 08:21 PM) *
3. Modern renditions of Taekkyon actually contain an obvious reverse influence from TKD.

I don't think so.
I've seen Taekkyon on video. The methods don't impress me. If Taekkyon adopted TKD techniques, It would be more effective than what I see in those videos. I just don't see any improvements.

To be fair, I don't find Karate or TKD techniques effective when compared to Mauy Thai, Greece-Roman Wrestling, Jiujitsu, western boxing.








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doggyji
post Dec 10 2011, 05:31 AM
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QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Dec 10 2011, 01:43 AM) *
What are you trying to say? Taekkyon exponents say Karate kicks come from Taekkyon? Never heard that one before. Also, Karate is a Chinese influenced martial arts that the Okinawan developed a long time ago before Okinawa became a part of Japan. True Japanese martial arts are bushijitsu, Jujitsu, sumo etc... Karate IS a Japanese martial arts now, but it wasn't invented in Japan.
I don't know where he came across the idea that Taekkyon is in any way related to Karate, either. I've never read such argument. It is TKD that's related to Karate because the founders of TKD were Korean Karate practitioners during the colonial period. They put more emphasis on kicks in TKD.

QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Dec 10 2011, 01:43 AM) *
As I understand it, this is true. Japan did ban traditional Korean martial arts and promoted the practice of Japanese martial arts like Karate, Judo, Kendo and Jujitsu. That doesn't mean the traditional arts went extinct. However, I have no doubt that these Japanese arts had a deep impact on some of revivals of traditional Korean martial arts.

Here are some examples I find similar:Not knowing if all/any are considered traditional:

Hopkido - Aikido( I think relationship is openly understood)
Kumdo - Kendo( Debated fiercely on both sides)
Tae kwondo - Karate( Debated and compared better)
Yundo - judo( relation understood but comparisons on which is better)

I see no problem in martial arts adopting foreign techniques. I'm Japanese but I practice Muay Thai( like many Japanese. embarassedlaugh.gif )
Hapkido and Yudo are just Korean pronunciations of Aikido and Judo. It's normal that different branches practice slightly different styles. As for the swordsmanship, in the Joseon military training manual Muyedobotongji (武藝圖譜通志), a great portion was dedicated to it. The modern term Gumdo is from Kendo. Koreans did not originally call their swordsmanship Gumdo. Japanese Kendo influence through the colonial period, revivalist movement after liberation and faction politics for the authority are all mixed up. Even some of the revivalists adopted Kendo equipment. Generally, Shippalgi is considered the most traditional school of weapon martial arts in Korea.

This post has been edited by doggyji: Dec 10 2011, 05:32 AM
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unko
post Dec 10 2011, 12:20 PM
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QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Dec 10 2011, 01:43 AM) *
What are you trying to say? Taekkyon exponents say Karate kicks come from Taekkyon? Never heard that one before. Also, Karate is a Chinese influenced martial arts that the Okinawan developed a long time ago before Okinawa became a part of Japan. True Japanese martial arts are bushijitsu, Jujitsu, sumo etc... Karate IS a Japanese martial arts now, but it wasn't invented in Japan.


There's been plenty of discussions for decades around the subject of the source of fanciful kicking found in martial arts today. My belief is that there is a bunch of bull$hit artists who revising history and putting taekkyon in a place it never was to begin with.

QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Dec 10 2011, 01:43 AM) *
As I understand it, this is true. Japan did ban traditional Korean martial arts and promoted the practice of Japanese martial arts like Karate, Judo, Kendo and Jujitsu. That doesn't mean the traditional arts went extinct. However, I have no doubt that these Japanese arts had a deep impact on some of revivals of traditional Korean martial arts.

Here are some examples I find similar:Not knowing if all/any are considered traditional:

Hopkido - Aikido( I think relationship is openly understood)
Kumdo - Kendo( Debated fiercely on both sides)
Tae kwondo - Karate( Debated and compared better)
Yundo - judo( relation understood but comparisons on which is better)


Are you being serious? These are all Korean pronunciations of the Japanese arts.


QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Dec 10 2011, 01:43 AM) *
I've seen Taekkyon on video. The methods don't impress me. If Taekkyon adopted TKD techniques, It would be more effective than what I see in those videos. I just don't see any improvements.


Taekkyon is presented as a historical art of antiquity. It's been propagated as a SOURCE of development of TKD which I believe to be false.

What they want you to believe is: Taekkyon + Karate = TKD

So what they did was: Fanciful Kicking + Taekkyon

That's the reverse influence I'm speaking of.


QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Dec 10 2011, 01:43 AM) *
To be fair, I don't find Karate or TKD techniques effective when compared to Mauy Thai, Greece-Roman Wrestling, Jiujitsu, western boxing.


I get what you're saying but what about Muay Thai techniques is actually more effective than Karate or TKD techniques? They're all the same done a little differently and most of which are never used. I would say that their training methods, philosophy and sparring games do offer very different strategies on attack and body development.

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doggyji
post Dec 10 2011, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE (unko @ Dec 10 2011, 12:20 PM) *
Taekkyon is presented as a historical art of antiquity. It's been propagated as a SOURCE of development of TKD which I believe to be false.

What they want you to believe is: Taekkyon + Karate = TKD

So what they did was: Fanciful Kicking + Taekkyon

That's the reverse influence I'm speaking of.
ITF (which was recognized in South Korea until 1973) tried to register TKD for Intangible Cultural Asset of Korea in 1968. The request was denied because it was considered too much of a modern hybrid sport. In the process, ITF claimed Taekkyon influenced TKD in some way. Some early TKD leaders did study Taekkyon with Song Deok Ki and Shin Han Seung but its direct influence on TKD was found weak. It was Taekkyon that ended up getting the status of the cultural asset in 1983. Even for Taekkyon, there are three major organizations that often don't agree with each other.
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