New Theory on Angkor, Who were the last Varman kings? Options

[LoveIsAllAround]

So then tell me the V sound in Chinese and which the closest sound of Chinese to the V in Khmer?

Fu Nan, if I guess. It was from Suvarnbhumi. Su Phan Na Phum ==> Phum ==> Phu = Fu

Nan is South

Funan = Suvarnbhumi/Golden land on the south (of China)

Nothing related to Vanom.

[XigonCongchua]

Funan most likely is just a phonetic depiction with no meaning. That's the case for the vast majority of names recorded in Chinese.

[Leeporter]

Funan most likely is just a phonetic depiction with no meaning. That's the case for the vast majority of names recorded in Chinese.

Well, that's a good excuse by historians/linguistics when they couldn't find any other language that fit what the Chinese recorded, except for Tai language.

What funny is, they concluded that no Tai language presenced here since htey found no Tai words in the history of Funan and Chenla.

[PongThep]

Funan most likely is just a phonetic depiction with no meaning. That's the case for the vast majority of names recorded in Chinese.

That's what I'm saying, if Chinese sources are used the name would be sino-centric, the same can be said with Indian sources.

However, Indian sources are deem more reliable considering that the scripts are found in Sanskrit.

This leeporter manipulating sound and spelling to fit an agenda is ridiculous. I have yet to see any concrete evidence from this guy. Not to mention, in order for one to see his side they must forget any form of western research.

[XigonCongchua]

I mean there's a meaning in the native language, but we shouldn't interpret it using Chinese meaning. For example, nan in Funan doesn't mean South.

If you look at the Old Chinese reconstructions for 扶南

http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response....r&ic_any=on

Character: 扶
Preclassic Old Chinese: bha
Classic Old Chinese: bha
Western Han Chinese: bha
Eastern Han Chinese: bhwa
Early Postclassic Chinese: bhwo
Middle Postclassic Chinese: bhwo
Late Postclassic Chinese: bhwo
Middle Chinese: bü

http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response....r&ic_any=on
Character: 南
Modern (Beijing) reading: nán
Preclassic Old Chinese: nǝ̄m
Classic Old Chinese: nǝ̄m
Western Han Chinese: nǝ̄m
Eastern Han Chinese: nǝ̄m
Early Postclassic Chinese: nǝ̄m
Middle Postclassic Chinese: nǝ̄m
Late Postclassic Chinese: nǝ̄m
Middle Chinese: nʌm


Then 扶南 is Bha-nǝ̄m

Possible contenders in native language could be Ph'nom or Vanom.

[Leeporter]

Fu Nan, if I guess. It was from Suvarnbhumi. Su Phan Na Phum ==> Phum ==> Phu = Fu

Nan is South

Funan = Suvarnbhumi/Golden land on the south (of China)

Nothing related to Vanom.

You can call me crazy, but I listened to the word Funan with my southerner ears and found that it should be "Bho Nan / โพธิ์น่าน"

We know that Bho mean Buddha, but I have no idea what Nan (น่าน) could mean but I swear it's "Bho Nan / โพธิ์น่าน"

[KhmerBoi]

Because Southern Thailanders then were your master!

really? how it make sens? Khmer word existed in Southern most of them are common words.. and even the stone inscription was written in Khmer language.. (Article: Some Clues on Long-standing Relationships between Cambodia and Peninsular Thailand by Daorang Wittayarat) she add that social and religious organization in southern part of Thailand inspired by the model used in the Ancient Khmer Empire.

So, you means your Khmers share the same story with Pha Dang and Nang Ai and the story of Pya Taen of the Tai-speaking people?

I don't think I heard about it.. but it lead me to wonder why those people dress like Khmer Angkor style? and if they are our master why there is no inscription in Tai language way back to Angkor?

[PongThep]

Well, that's a good excuse by historians/linguistics when they couldn't find any other language that fit what the Chinese recorded, except for Tai language.

What funny is, they concluded that no Tai language presenced here since htey found no Tai words in the history of Funan and Chenla.

Your an idiot, your other theory that Khmer borrow their counting system from Tai is from the fact that Tai system is Chinese.

it just furthers the truth that Tai speaking people came in the southeast Asia much later than you presume.

[Leeporter]

I mean there's a meaning in the native language, but we shouldn't interpret it using Chinese meaning. For example, nan in Funan doesn't mean South.

Of course, the way Nan was interpreted as south in Chinese was proposed by westerner.

For me, Funan = "Bho Nan / โพธิ์น่าน"

You can kill me but you can't make me say it's not "Bho Nan / โพธิ์น่าน"

[PongThep]

You can call me crazy, but I listened to the word Funan with my southerner ears and found that it should be "Bho Nan / โพธิ์น่าน"

We know that Bho mean Buddha, but I have no idea what Nan (น่าน) could mean but I swear it's "Bho Nan / โพธิ์น่าน"

Yeah and Chinese people also say "fried Lice" so are we to assume that they are actually eating lice.

[KhmerBoi]

Fu Nan, if I guess. It was from Suvarnbhumi. Su Phan Na Phum ==> Phum ==> Phu = Fu

Nan is South

Funan = Suvarnbhumi/Golden land on the south (of China)

Nothing related to Vanom.

si where the Suvarn and Mi go???? ^^

[Leeporter]

really? how it make sens? Khmer word existed in Southern most of them are common words.. and even the stone inscription was written in Khmer language.. (Article: Some Clues on Long-standing Relationships between Cambodia and Peninsular Thailand by Daorang Wittayarat) she add that social and religious organization in southern part of Thailand inspired by the model used in the Ancient Khmer Empire.



I don't think I heard about it.. but it lead me to wonder why those people dress like Khmer Angkor style? and if they are our master why there is no inscription in Tai language way back to Angkor?

That's why I said you made it upside down.

Southerner used the word "Lang" as to talk/speak and when it went to its slave world, it became "Th-Lang"

And I've shown you the Nora dance which is the mother of your Khmer dance.

Your "Chong Kra Ben" was used in the south of Thailand long before your Khmer people used it.

You are a Khmer-centric so you forgot that Indian came from west to east, from Chaiya to Cambodia.

[Leeporter]

Your an idiot, your other theory that Khmer borrow their counting system from Tai is from the fact that Tai system is Chinese.

it just furthers the truth that Tai speaking people came in the southeast Asia much later than you presume.

Some one please kick this troll out. It's very annoying.

[PongThep]

Some one please kick this troll out. It's very annoying.

I'm here to debate, so please continue. Start off again by explaining why there is no Tai script found before the 12 century.

[XigonCongchua]

Where are we going with this though?

Even if some people in this area we're talking about spoke a Daic language, it's still hard to link them to a modern Tai group. Because sharing a language family doesn't guarantee they're the same people.

For example, the Blang (Bulang) people in China speak an Austro-astiac, Mon-Khmer language...but they're not linked to neither Mon or Khmer people

http://www.1155815.com/english/peoples/201007/4831.html



http://www.china.org.cn/e-groups/shaoshu/shao-blang.htm



http://www.yunnanadventure.com/YunnanOverv...c-Minority.html



http://en.ynta.gov.cn/item/3011.aspx

[Leeporter]

Chaiya and Pan Pan are also really malay names.

Idiot! You tried so hard to link it with Malay.

Chaiya is a Sankrit word.

Pan Pan = พันพาน = thousand tray. It was named after Khun Tian's son, Khun Pan Pan.

[Leeporter]

I'm here to debate, so please continue. Start off again by explaining why there is no Tai script found before the 12 century.

Because they read Pali/Sanskrit/Khom (what you called Old Khmer). Very obvious.

I-Ching had to come to Chaiya to study Sanskrit.

[KhmerBoi]

That's what I'm saying, if Chinese sources are used the name would be sino-centric, the same can be said with Indian sources.

However, Indian sources are deem more reliable considering that the scripts are found in Sanskrit.

This leeporter manipulating sound and spelling to fit an agenda is ridiculous. I have yet to see any concrete evidence from this guy. Not to mention, in order for one to see his side they must forget any form of western research.

Yes According to the Northern Indian record of Funan was mention that: The Sakadvip which mean that the land of Saka tree, of cause Saka and Thlork tree are not the same but the fruit look alike the the used is the same. So the Indian name the Funan after they hear the story of the local of Kokthlork city as well.

For me the Chinese call Kokthlok as Funan because of the Kokthlork call their leader as Sdech Phnom meaning the Mountain queen.. (Austroasiatic Civilization) so the Chinese call Kokthlork according the local as well..

Anyways the word Funan is come from Punan for the older Chinese word.. According to the inscription they found that Ancient Khmer write Phnom as Vnan read as Vunan and in Khmer Ph, P and V always exchange each other.. like the word Vimean also can write/read as Phimean as well as Pimean meaning castle.

[Leeporter]

Where are we going with this though?

Even if some people in this area we're talking about spoke a Daic language, it's still hard to link them to a modern Tai group. Because sharing a language family doesn't guarantee they're the same people.

Xigon, you don't understand.

This is not about Tai-speaking people, this is about to prove that the history was distorted to suit what the French wanted, and there was no "Khmer Empire"

I've changed many people's perspective about Funan, Srivijaya and Chenla now.

Now they realized that Srivijaya had much more influence to Chenla than they were taught.

And Funan, Chenla and Srivijaya were from the same people and also that rulers of these people are related to Tai-speakers.

Isn't that an exciting in the history world????

[XigonCongchua]

Xigon, you don't understand.

This is not about Tai-speaking people, this is about to prove that the history was distorted to suit what the French wanted, and there was no "Khmer Empire"

I've changed many people's perspective about Funan, Srivijaya and Chenla now.

Now they realized that Srivijaya had much more influence to Chenla than they were taught.

And Funan, Chenla and Srivijaya were from the same people and also that rulers of these people are related to Tai-speakers.

Isn't that an exciting in the history world????

I see. That's fine if you want to explore all possibilities.

But I'm not a fan of linking an obscure ancient ethnic to a modern ethnic for the sake of nationalism.