New Theory on Angkor, Who were the last Varman kings? Options

[Leeporter]

Not possible because Buddha was transcribed as 佛陀 (But-da --- Futuo in modern Mandarin)

No, Bho = the Bho tree, the symbol of Lord Buddha.
Bho = Buddha = Buddhism.

[XigonCongchua]

I just wonder what you guy pronoun Bh here? because it is clear that in Khmer Bh pronoun as Ph for example the word: Sovannabhumi we pronoun and write as Sovannaphumi.

No, you misunderstood it.

The Bh written there is a symbol used by linguists to represent a sound in old and classic Chinese. It's not something in Vietnamese.

The two characters are pronounced "Phù Nam" in Vietnamese if you're wondering.

No, Bho = the Bho tree, the symbol of Lord Buddha.
Bho = Buddha = Buddhism.

That bodhi tree is written as 菩提 (Bồ đề in Vietnamese, Puti or Pudi in modern Mandarin)

[KhmerBoi]

It doesn't matter if funan is really Bhanam, balam,bunam or any variations becos there are no links to any Khmer kingdoms.

It's link because of the word Vunom.

Okay let me tell you if you divided the word 柬埔寨 into three you will get the meaning something like the Note Camp Port. Imagine if the world technology was destroy in 2000 year later, and Cambodian lost what their country name come from so people trying to find out who they are and might be come up something like this:

JienbuJai have the small port and might be under China influence they sometime war with other kingdom by using camp near port?? BlaBlaBla...

Anyways, to me it just simple like this: 柬埔寨 pronoun as Jiǎnpǔzhài is come Kampuchea.

look that not so much difference from Qiáochénrú 僑陳如 which come from Kaundinya (and without the Cham inscription maybe you guy still trouble with this too)
As well as 扶南, "Phù Nam" in Vietnamese, "Fúnán" in Chinese Pinyin and Khmer is Vunan.

So if we just compare them: Viet Phu Nan, old Chinese Bhunan, modern Chinese Funan.

Pls don't forget that Vietnamese is Austro-Asiatic the same as Khmer. but they just used the Chinese character.

In Austroasiatic language the sound V, Ph, P are change able according to period of time.

So if Vietnamese used 扶 for Phu then it is possible that the Fu of modern chinese and Bh of the is Vu of Khmer because Bh=Ph in Khmer and Ph come from V..

So it just difference changing in pronunciation and drawing but we can see the root of it. and 扶南 Funan have no meaning in Chinese them self just like 柬埔寨 Jiǎnpǔzhài and Qiáochénrú 僑陳如 which actually is base on the original word.

So difference between Chinese and Indian mentality is:
-Chinese not trying to understand more clearly about the local (they never find out waht the meaning of the word is they just repeat after the local, ZDG most of the time make mistaken in his record which shown he dosn't interested much of the meaning of it... most of the time is decrypt) that why Khmer don't like and not adopt Chinese tradition.
-Indian is trying to understand the Local in interaction until they can influence their culture.. one example they call Funan as Sakadvip which really go to the meaning of the word. Kaundinya when arrive to the Funan the local like him and price him as king and later conquer the Java and push them with their population to Chmapasak.

This post has been edited by KhmerBoi: Feb 9 2012, 02:50 AM

[KhmerBoi]

No, Bho = the Bho tree, the symbol of Lord Buddha.
Bho = Buddha = Buddhism.

LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[LoveIsAllAround]

It's link because of the word Vunom.

Okay let me tell you if you divided the word 柬埔寨 into three you will get the meaning something like the Note Camp Port. Imagine if the world technology was destroy in 2000 year later, and Cambodian lost what their country name come from so people trying to find out who they are and might be come up something like this:

JienbuJai have the small port and might be under China influence they sometime war with other kingdom by using camp near port?? BlaBlaBla...

Anyways, to me it just simple like this: 柬埔寨 pronoun as Jiǎnpǔzhài is come Kampuchea.

look that not so much difference from Qiáochénrú 僑陳如 which come from Kaundinya (and without the Cham inscription maybe you guy still trouble with this too)
As well as 扶南, "Phù Nam" in Vietnamese, "Fúnán" in Chinese Pinyin and Khmer is Vunan.

So if we just compare them: Viet Phu Nan, old Chinese Bhunan, modern Chinese Funan.

Pls don't forget that Vietnamese is Austro-Asiatic the same as Khmer. but they just used the Chinese character.

In Austroasiatic language the sound V, Ph, P are change able according to period of time.

So if Vietnamese used 扶 for Phu then it is possible that the Fu of modern chinese and Bh of the is Vu of Khmer because Bh=Ph in Khmer and Ph come from V..

So it just difference changing in pronunciation and drawing but we can see the root of it. and 扶南 Funan have no meaning in Chinese them self just like 柬埔寨 Jiǎnpǔzhài and Qiáochénrú 僑陳如 which actually is base on the original word.

So difference between Chinese and Indian mentality is:
-Chinese not trying to understand more clearly about the local (they never find out waht the meaning of the word is they just repeat after the local, ZDG most of the time make mistaken in his record which shown he dosn't interested much of the meaning of it... most of the time is decrypt) that why Khmer don't like and not adopt Chinese tradition.
-Trying to understand the Local in interaction until they can influence their culture.. one example they call Funan as Sakadvip which really go to the meaning of the word. Kaundinya when arrive to the Funan the local like him and price him as king and later conquer the Java and push them with their population to Chmapasak.

French Historians think Funan came from Khmer Phnom becos they already believe that Funan was in Cambodia, ok? So what they had to do next is connect Chinese's Funan to Khmer. That's it.

If they think Funan was in Indonesia, I guarantee you they would dig Malay word to be Funan.

Right now, Bodhi is real candidate. Chaiya, Southern Thailand, land of Mon, might be ruled by Tai, and 'Bodhi' a Buddhist (Theravada before Mahayana) name was the name of the kingdom.

Fu Nan = Bo Nan = Bodhi in the south (of China)

[LoveIsAllAround]

LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Maha Bodhi

[KhmerBoi]

French Historians think Funan came from Khmer Phnom becos they already believe that Funan was in Cambodia, ok? So what they had to do next is connect Chinese's Funan to Khmer. That's it.

If they think Funan was in Indonesia, I guarantee you they would dig Malay word to be Funan.

Right now, Bodhi is real candidate. Chaiya, Southern Thailand, land of Mon, might be ruled by Tai, and 'Bodhi' a Buddhist (Theravada before Mahayana) name was the name of the kingdom.

Fu Nan = Bo Nan = Bodhi in the south (of China)

Sorry, France scholar also wrong sometime.. and many Khmer and disagree with him.. I believe Funan come from the word Vunan is make sens then other of other? and you do really believe Funan is come from Sovannabhumi? for me there is so far~~~~~~~ is not!

if like Leeporter say Bhu is Bhu tree that is more a joke!! I don't think that Buddhism is go that deep to the people of Funan...

And if you guys want to claim this empire so please be respected of the local a bit don't just make it mess!!! You guy down their creative and civilization too much here!

[KhmerBoi]

Emmm.. I have a Cambodian traditional story to tell you:

There are two women are fighting to be mother of a kid. They came up to the King for judgment. The King ask them to drug the kid. If they won they can take that kid. So the 1 woman who is not mother trying to push to drug harder as they can without caring about the kid.. the2 woman who is a real mother cry loud and stop.
The king decide to let the 2 woman took that kid. He said you are his mother you can take care of him. and the king ask his soldier take the 1 woman to kill.

I think you Thai is just like a 1 woman!

[Leeporter]

if like Leeporter say Bhu is Bhu tree that is more a joke!! I don't think that Buddhism is go that deep to the people of Funan...

Idiot! Buddhism didn't go to Funan?


A sanskrit inscription from 375 A.C. proves that Buddhism was already present in Funan as a secondary religion in these earliest times. It was beginning to assert its presence from about 450 A.C. Ma Touan-Lin, a 13th century Chinese chronicler, accounts that in the 4th and 5th century there were ten monasteries in Funan where monks and nuns studied the sacred Buddhist texts.


I am sure the first syllable of Funan is "Bho"

But I am not sure about the second syllable.

I thought it was Nan น่าน but then is has no meaning.

Learning from Xigon that it should end with m, it should be Bho Nam.

Sorry, France scholar also wrong sometime.. and many Khmer and disagree with him..

They made it wrong all the time. That's why we are here to fix it.

This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 9 2012, 03:17 AM

[LoveIsAllAround]

Sorry, France scholar also wrong sometime.. and many Khmer and disagree with him.. I believe Funan come from the word Vunan is make sens then other of other? and you do really believe Funan is come from Sovannabhumi? for me there is so far~~~~~~~ is not!

You should obey French. It was the French, so you have what now is Khmer Empire. LOL

Funan might be from Phnong? what do you think?

if like Leeporter say Bhu is Bhu tree that is more a joke!! I don't think that Buddhism is go that deep to the people of Funan...

Bodhi = Buddha's enlightenment

Buddhism came to Suvarnbhumi since King Ashoka. LOL You should have known this.

Believing to be the first Stupa in SEA, Pra Prathom Chedi

http://www.dhammathai.org/watthai/central/...pathomchedi.php

The old original Pra pathom Chedi looks like the Sanjay stupa in India


Many Ashoke Chakra are found in Thailand.


Theravada Buddhism came in the time of Funan. Those monks sent by King Ashoka landed in Southern Thailand, Suvarnbhumi.

[Leeporter]

Many Ashoke Chakra are found in Thailand.

Yes, that Chakra represents Dhamma.

In its early stage, Buddhism didn't have Buddha images like in Brahman god.

Actually, it didn't have anything to represent Lowrd Buddha at all because the concept of Buddhism is "Sunyata" or nothingness.

The buddha images only appeared in a later period.

This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 9 2012, 03:28 AM

[XigonCongchua]

Hm...I don't know...From an anthropology class, I learned that the state religion of Funan was Hindu. Mahayana Buddhism was adopted as the state religion in the heyday of Angkor and Theravada Buddhism didn't become dominant until much later.

[Leeporter]

Hm...I don't know...From an anthropology class, I learned that the state religion of Funan was Hindu. Mahayana Buddhism was adopted as the state religion in the heyday of Angkor and Theravada Buddhism didn't become dominant until much later.

That's a wrong perception.

Since the Buddha era, 2,500 years ago, Hindu/Brahman and Buddhism have been competing to dominate each other.

That's the reason why they broght Buddhism/Hindu to SEA in the first place.

You can call all the wars in Funan, Chenla as a relegion war between Buddhism and Hindu.

It's sad, but it's true.

[XigonCongchua]

I think you got it wrong. Religious conversion in Southeast Asia (from animism to Hinduism, then to Islam and Buddhism) was rather peaceful until Christianity arrived...I studied on this before.

[Leeporter]

I think you got it wrong. Religious conversion in Southeast Asia (from animism to Hinduism, then to Islam and Buddhism) was rather peaceful until Christianity arrived...I studied on this before.

Hindu/Brahman and Buddhism never been friend.

Since Buddha era, Lord Buddha never been easy on Brahman. He hit them hard and never compromised.

And Brahman striked back hard every time they had chance.

You can see many Buddha or Hindu statues in Angkor being defaced.

And the evolution in SEA is not like that.

Animism to Hinnayan and to Brahman/Hinduism/Mahayan then then Islam.

In SEA, Brahman/Hinduism came after Buddhism.

Mahayan is a compromise of Hinnayan which is hard for people to understand and follow.

Mahayan concept was created to fight with Hindu god, i.e. to recruit a lot of people.

PS> Sri Thep is a very first indian settlement in SEA and it was a Buddhist.





This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 9 2012, 06:10 AM

[Leeporter]

Bodhisattva concept like this beautiful Avalokitesvara found in Chaiya (Sri Vijaya) was an attempt of Buddhist to compete with Brahman god.






This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 9 2012, 06:48 AM

[Leeporter]

And the fine example of the war between Buddhism and Brahman/Hindu was the story of Trasok Paem, a Theravada who killed the Brahman king and released Khmers from being slaves.

Theravada took a firm root in Cambodia after this coup.

[SabaiSabai]

Just throwing it out there...

What if Funan was mix Mon+Tai

Phu = people
Nam = water

Lol

Or Mon+Sanskrit
Phu = pura
Nam = water

Water city/kingdom

Lol

[SabaiSabai]

I think you got it wrong. Religious conversion in Southeast Asia (from animism to Hinduism, then to Islam and Buddhism) was rather peaceful until Christianity arrived...I studied on this before.

Not so. There is record of either bhavavarman or citrasena being an enemy of Buddhism. From evidence we can tell both religions were practiced in the area. But we can also see there were power struggles in the royal court regarding them too.

[Leeporter]

Just throwing it out there...

What if Funan was mix Mon+Tai

Phu = people
Nam = water

Lol

Or Mon+Sanskrit
Phu = pura
Nam = water

Water city/kingdom

Lol

Those mainstream scholars still come back every year or two to review the name "Funan" and "Chenla"

You are free to propose the name.

I myself believe that Fu = Bho, but then I can't find what Nam could be that make sense.



Hey, after knowing that it should end with m, I thought it was nam (water) too.

Is Bho-Water syntactically correct and meaningful?

This post has been edited by Leeporter: Feb 9 2012, 07:00 AM