what is your religion? Options

[chutzpah]

Did u read this book about Mormons titled "Under the Banner of Heaven : A Story of Violent Faith" by Jon Krakauer?

Jon Krakauer’s literary reputation rests on insightful chronicles of lives conducted at the outer limits. He now shifts his focus from extremes of physical adventure to extremes of religious belief within our own borders, taking readers inside isolated American communities where some 40,000 Mormon Fundamentalists still practice polygamy. Defying both civil authorities and the Mormon establishment in Salt Lake City, the renegade leaders of these Taliban-like theocracies are zealots who answer only to God.

At the core of Krakauer’s book are brothers Ron and Dan Lafferty, who insist they received a commandment from God to kill a blameless woman and her baby girl. Beginning with a meticulously researched account of this appalling double murder, Krakauer constructs a multi-layered, bone-chilling narrative of messianic delusion, polygamy, savage violence, and unyielding faith. Along the way he uncovers a shadowy offshoot of America’s fastest growing religion, and raises provocative questions about the nature of religious belief.

To think that fundamentalist Islam is the only faith that's gone wrong is just delusional. Even protestant christian offshoots like the Mormon Church have gone viral.

Dear readers, the above response from Tangawizi, the hater of all things Christian is very telling. If the crime and sin of the TWO 'renegade' Mormons mentioned above are only limited to polygamy, defying civic laws and the murder of a mother and her baby, then we could surely heave a collective sigh of relief.

Now don't think for a moment that I condone what these two Mormons did, one murder is one too many. What they did are immoral and most importantly are against the teaching of Christianity.

Mormonism doesn't represent Christianity, nor is it a Christian faith, but this is another topic altogether that can be best discussed on another thread. Ironically even Krakauer the author of the above bit of fluff states that Ron and Don Lafferty are renegade within Mormonism.

But back to Tangawizi assertion that and I quote To think that fundamentalist Islam is the only faith that's gone wrong is just delusional.  Even protestant christian offshoots like the Mormon Church have gone viral So let us examine the reality of Islam and what is currently happening around us today. Well, let's see;

We don't see Christians going on a murderous rampage at the slightest 'PERCEIVED' provocation.
We don't see Christians kill and butcher non Christians in the name of their religion and God.
We don't see Christians bomb and kill innocent civilians.
We don't see Christians harass and burn mosque, temples and other houses of worship.
We don't see Christians as a minority living in Islamic states demanding special treatments.
We don't see Christians demanding the imposition of Christian laws.
We don't see Christians behead non Christians.
We don't see Christian as having blasphemy laws impose on the world (see the OIC & the UN)
We don't see Christians rape their captives and victims.
We don't see Christians teach underage sex and marriage.
We don't see Christians teach extreme hatred for the Jews and other non Christians.
We don't see Christians teach intolerance of other faiths.
We don't see Christians treat women as a man's possession, to be subdued, and inferior.

The list could go on and on. These 13 points are totally against the teaching of Christianity. In fact the truth is Christians are a meek lot. Just compare the Coptic Christians of the Mid East to the Muslims of Europe, America and Australia.

As I write this, the Christians in Nigeria are going through horrific sufferings like their counterparts in Egypt, Iraq, in Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan and in any Islamic states.

We do not see Muslim minority living in non Islamic states suffer to the extent of Christians living under Islamic rule! In fact Muslims enjoy special privileges and protections! They are free to worship, demanding special right and build countless mosques.

Facts are facts and they can never be twisted even if Tangawizi did try to deliberately twist the truth ... she the hater of Christianity . It seems due to her extreme hatred towards Christinity, she has become delusional and gone viral in sprouting anything but the truth. Sad really all that mambo jambo meditative contemplation has resulted in spewing one lie after another. Delusional and viral indeed!

Certainly, the anthropomorphic God is not believable, it is also a dangerous idea. In the abrahamaic scriptures, Man made God in his own image, and that is why man thinks of God as his father. God is a gigantic projection of a father. He imposes salvation on us the way a father imposes good behavior on his children. People who believe that salvation is imposed on them by God then start to believe that they must impose salvation on others. Ever since God sent his son to save us, Christians have felt the need to send their soldiers and priests all over the world to save others. The same sort of missionary zeal is seen in Islam except that instead of saving souls, they have fundamentalists who prefer to blast themselves along the way as martyrs.

Well, yes, what Tangawizi really need is philosophical probe, deeply into the mysteries of Christianity and Judaism the Abrahamic faiths she so much loathes before spewing more lies, while standing up to 'scientific' analysis of the latest facts that should be based on observable events. But I bet it's all too difficult for her, better spew more untruth and clutching at her straws like spirituality.


This post has been edited by chutzpah: Dec 29 2011, 09:16 AM

[GentleWind]

Time does not even exist, let alone being a particle.

It appears in your mind when you "want" something.

And it disappears from your mind when you already got that thing you want.

I like your understanding.

[tangawizi]

Alright , throw out the linguistics and give us a formula

God = Emptiness = Time = Dhamma = Non-entity

[sawan]

I like your understanding.

I am glad you like it, it means you've observed it on your own already.

Like other Rupa/Nama, time appears out of nothingness from your ignorance.

With real "Sati" with you, time will never exist.

[avisitor]

Dear readers, the above response from Tangawizi, the hater of all things Christian is very telling. If the crime and sin of the TWO 'renegade' Mormons mentioned above are only limited to polygamy, defying civic laws and the murder of a mother and her baby, then we could surely heave a collective sigh of relief.

Really?? Shouldn't we hold each group to the same high standards that you have provided for religions such as Islam or Muslims???

Now don't think for a moment that I condone what these two Mormons did, one murder is one too many. What they did are immoral and most importantly are against the teaching of Christianity.

Agreed. So why do you need to say more???

But back to Tangawizi assertion that and I quote To think that fundamentalist Islam is the only faith that's gone wrong is just delusional.  Even protestant christian offshoots like the Mormon Church have gone viral So let us examine the reality of Islam and what is currently happening around us today. Well, let's see;

As a Christian, shouldn't you love thy neighbor??? So why do you speak so badly of our friend Tangy??

We don't see Christians going on a murderous rampage at the slightest 'PERCEIVED' provocation.
We don't see Christians kill and butcher non Christians in the name of their religion and God.
We don't see Christians bomb and kill innocent civilians.
We don't see Christians harass and burn mosque, temples and other houses of worship.
We don't see Christians as a minority living in Islamic states demanding special treatments.
We don't see Christians demanding the imposition of Christian laws.
We don't see Christians behead non Christians.
We don't see Christian as having blasphemy laws impose on the world (see the OIC & the UN)
We don't see Christians rape their captives and victims.
We don't see Christians teach underage sex and marriage.
We don't see Christians teach extreme hatred for the Jews and other non Christians.
We don't see Christians teach intolerance of other faiths.
We don't see Christians treat women as a man's possession, to be subdued, and inferior.

History tells another story about Christians and their "mission" to help spread the word of Christianity
Wait wasn't the Inquisition a good thing??? hehehe

The list could go on and on. These 13 points are totally against the teaching of Christianity. In fact the truth is Christians are a meek lot. Just compare the Coptic Christians of the Mid East to the Muslims of Europe, America and Australia.

As I write this, the Christians in Nigeria are going through horrific sufferings like their counterparts in Egypt, Iraq, in Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan and in any Islamic states.

We do not see Muslim minority living in non Islamic states suffer to the extent of Christians living under Islamic rule! In fact Muslims enjoy special privileges and protections! They are free to worship, demanding special right and build countless mosques.

Facts are facts and they can never be twisted even if Tangawizi did try to deliberately twist the truth ... she the hater of Christianity . It seems due to her extreme hatred towards Christinity, she has become delusional and gone viral in sprouting anything but the truth. Sad really all that mambo jambo meditative contemplation has resulted in spewing one lie after another. Delusional and viral indeed!


Well, yes, what Tangawizi really need is philosophical probe, deeply into the mysteries of Christianity and Judaism the Abrahamic faiths she so much loathes before spewing more lies, while standing up to 'scientific' analysis of the latest facts that should be based on observable events. But I bet it's all too difficult for her, better spew more untruth and clutching at her straws like spirituality.

Maybe in another 100 years .. the Christians will rise up again and do unto other what you would have done unto Islam / muslims???

I like to poke fun at you cause you believe with all your heart the BS that comes out of your keyboard ...
The truth is relative to where you stand and how you were brought up.
I hope your truth will allow for more Christian hospitality and cheer ....

[GentleWind]

I am glad you like it, it means you've observed it on your own already.

Like other Rupa/Nama, time appears out of nothingness from your ignorance.

With real "Sati" with you, time will never exist.

No, I am just a scholar. Ask them experts Avisitor and Tanga.

[tangawizi]

Hehe AV, I am starting to believe you are developing metta and all that nice nice everything spice for Chutzpah our devout in-house Catholic inquisitor/convertor ....

In Singapore, there's such a growing christian fundamentalist movement these days, it's hard to deal with their neurosis for proselytising and condemnation of other non-christian faiths.

I don't think Chutzpah will ever be capable of feeling true christian love for humanity, she's a mother with kids, and she's conditioned to perceive that her pie is getting threatened by the cloud of islamic sword hanging over her lot.

It'll take alot for her to deal with that fear and her religious neurosis to proselytise and crow her faith.

[avisitor]

Hehe AV, I am starting to believe you are developing metta and all that nice nice everything spice for Chutzpah our devout in-house Catholic inquisitor/convertor ....

In Singapore, there's such a growing christian fundamentalist movement these days, it's hard to deal with their neurosis for proselytising and condemnation of other non-christian faiths.

I don't think Chutzpah will ever be capable of feeling true christian love for humanity, she's a mother with kids, and she's conditioned to perceive that her pie is getting threatened by the cloud of islamic sword hanging over her lot.

It'll take alot for her to deal with that fear and her religious neurosis to proselytise and crow her faith.

It seems that every religion wants to be the one with the real God and denounce all others.
Super ego to go with the super god??? IDK
I just have to work on my stuff and keep my mind clear enough for the rapture??? hahaha

[DEL]

I am an agnost and i believe in god. My guess is that he/she is the same god in every religion, to explain it shortly. God isn't exclusive for one certain religion, because that can't be justice.

It seems that every religion wants to be the one with the real God and denounce all others.
Super ego to go with the super god??? IDK
I just have to work on my stuff and keep my mind clear enough for the rapture??? hahaha

People forget that their own religion is so old and that the chance is very high it has been edited by humans. You can't take land, declare war and incite hate for others if your religion teaches you to be peaceful and tolerant to others. And the so-called religious leaders always know a way to bend the words. Will explain how you can see it in Islam and Christianity:

Because of popularity i take Christianity as example again. For centuries long the Church kept Black and Whites seperate (for ex: in the USA, SA). They allowed Blacks to follow the Christian religion, but apart from the Whites. Words were bend to make that acceptable. Now in Africa, The catholic churche tells people that using condoms is not what god's want, so that they get more HIV-infected followers. More followers is a reason for them to play dirty, losing followers is another reason to hide dirty cases like the recent pedophile-cases.

Islam has probably even more ways to bend the real teachings of Allah. After the Quran many Hadiths were created and even contradicting with the Quran, so-called leaders have no problem to use these verses to gain what they want.

Luckily you can find in all religions that every person has the ability to choose for good or wrong. The Christian religion has the ten commandments for example and you can even find those in the Quran or in the Torah. In the Bible, Torah and in the Quran you even find warnings that the scriptures and your own religion could be corrupted. In revelations we see the dragon (Satan) is thrown down from the skies to the earth, to corrupt it. In the Quran you find verses that people should watch out for false fabrications of the Hadiths and that they should stay loyal to the Quran.

In Philosophies like Buddhism you can find guidance to what is good and what is bad.

Even in Atheism there is good and bad. They either became and atheists afer leaving a religion, because they see religions can't even follow their own teachings, letting them believe there is no god. Or people simply became atheist, so they don't have to follow those annoying rules of what is good and not.

Lots of people who follow a religion, philosophy or are atheist, are aware that in their own group are bad people. Look for example in Isreal, where most Jews are turning against the extreme orthodox Jews. In Islam, the majority hates the extremists. Sadly, the extreme minority, who started as a rebellion against the West, have some rich funders, therefor enough money to buy arms and to even use terror on their own people, so they won't protest, because of fear. Christians who get shocked and disgusted by hearing the priests is a pedophile or are ashamed by people like Chutzpah who claim they are Christian too. An Atheist who sees a fellow atheist do some bad things and starts to think to himself ''thats why i despise religion and he continues it.'' Or someone from a philosophy, that claims kharma will get back to the disbehavers.

This post has been edited by DEL: Dec 30 2011, 01:14 PM

[tangawizi]

Delano, I believe religious orders should NOT be headed by men alone. Do u realise that so many religious orders from the Abrahamaic to the Exotics are all headed by MEN?

It's time for there to be female Popes (Popettes?), female Mullahs (Mullettes?), female Rabbis, female Dalai Lamas, female Patriarchs, female Manny Paquiaos .... the world would be a better run place then.

Vote for me!

[DEL]

hehheh. Well, you might be true. Fathers with only daughters seem to be lot friendlier than only sons. But in the end women are as easily corruptible as men are.

So perhaps religions should be run by children. Innocent children, but even they can be bought with toys.

No, there should not be any kind of leadership in religion.

[avisitor]

hehheh. Well, you might be true. Fathers with only daughters seem to be lot friendlier than only sons. But in the end women are as easily corruptible as men are.

So perhaps religions should be run by children. Innocent children, but even they can be bought with toys.

No, there should not be any kind of leadership in religion.

Sorry, there must be leadership ... someone must know the true way that leads to God and all his blessings.
Indeed there are many who are not fit to lead and still have that role to play among his community
God is not an all powerful being who is demanding worship and devotion beyond normal bounds .. who can be spiteful and damn the sinners
Nor can be the forgiving one and bless all the sinner who come to have their sins absolved.

God is but a vibration in the Universe which watches the events of the world unfold
There is no judgement nor damnation ... no forgiving sins ... these things are man made and invented
The soul of God is in its people and its collective intentions

Woe is me ... wow, those are some strange meds today ... please dismiss the reflections of an old man

[chutzpah]

Really?? Shouldn't we hold each group to the same high standards that you have provided for religions such as Islam or Muslims???

Agreed. So why do you need to say more???

As a Christian, shouldn't you love thy neighbor??? So why do you speak so badly of our friend Tangy??

History tells another story about Christians and their "mission" to help spread the word of Christianity
Wait wasn't the Inquisition a good thing??? hehehe

Maybe in another 100 years .. the Christians will rise up again and do unto other what you would have done unto Islam / muslims???

I like to poke fun at you cause you believe with all your heart the BS that comes out of your keyboard ...
The truth is relative to where you stand and how you were brought up.
I hope your truth will allow for more Christian hospitality and cheer ....

I am willing to debate your every point above, as stupid and illogical as they are. The question is are you even capable to carry out a civil debate without resorting to your usual nonsense bs and flippancy? I doubt it. When you are ready, just let me know! Until then, there is no point for me to address any of your silly infantile responses.

[avisitor]

I am willing to debate your every point above, as stupid and illogical as they are. The question is are you even capable to carry out a civil debate without resorting to your usual nonsense bs and flippancy? I doubt it. When you are ready, just let me know! Until then, there is no point for me to address any of your silly infantile responses.

If you already know my response is nonsense and BS and flippant then why even ask to debate??
Besides, what is there to debate?? You have your opinion of religions and I have my opinion of you ...
That's good enough for me ... oh wait ... was that flippant enough for you???

Hmm, did you notice that my response was mainly questions???
Well, you can continue to ignore the truth or realize that you aren't all wise and powerful, Chutzpah???

[tangawizi]

Loving kindness is pouring out of your pores, AV.

Happy New Year Chutzpah, ellexo, anti-islamic spambots, Del, GW, AV...

[Hambali]

as muslim i know islam is not good religion. islam teach not to like not, to accept not muslims. eating pork is bad, more bad then killing not muslim.. this is true. they taught not to like and to play, not trust not muslim. they are bad people. not muslim is najis! kafirs is najis, same as dog, pig, sh1t, no good, same also for jews.

you must read koran and listen to imam to understand islam. none muslims do not undertsand islam. i no follow islam no more.. i dont believ any allah no more.. all not true ..

[avisitor]

as muslim i know islam is not good religion. islam teach not to like not, to accept not muslims. eating pork is bad, more bad then killing not muslim.. this is true. they taught not to like and to play, not trust not muslim. they are bad people. not muslim is najis! kafirs is najis, same as dog, pig, sh1t, no good, same also for jews.

you must read koran and listen to imam to understand islam. none muslims do not undertsand islam. i no follow islam no more.. i dont believ any allah no more.. all not true ..

What you choose to believe is your choice .. and you probably have your reasons for making such a choice.
But, I would not pronounce to the world how you feel ... you don't know who is listening
Be safe and be wise ... keep your mind alert.

[DEL]

AV, Hambali is a fake account.

Someone made that account just to post that comment only. Same IP with someone else here, who does apparently anything to discredit Islam.

He doesn't like Islam and what some Muslims are doing and left it, but he names himself after a known muslim terrorist. right..............

This post has been edited by DEL: Jan 4 2012, 04:14 AM

[tangawizi]

Most of these anti-islam folks are chinese malaysians. That country's politics is tottering on religious strife and ethnic-nationalism. Their political establishment headed by the incumbent Prime Minister is keeping a tenuous hold on political office by pandering up to malay and muslim chauvinism.

Whilst we can understand where all this anti-islam sentiments are arising and how they affect us in the socio-political way, we can hardly adopt the simple-minded and ignorant view that ISLAM is the PROBLEM and source of these political bullying by the powers that be.

I keep asking the question, who is the viable alternative to the Malay establishment? None whatsoever has turned up in all these decades post-independence.

MM Lee is his golden age, and in meditative mode, has even expressed how he'd wished he stayed within the Malayan Federation. The destiny of Malaysia would not look as bleak and uncertain as it does today if he had stayed within and presented a viable choice of leadership to the non-malays and reasoned malays.

[avisitor]

AV, Hambali is a fake account.

Someone made that account just to post that comment only. Same IP with someone else here, who does apparently anything to discredit Islam.

He doesn't like Islam and what some Muslims are doing and left it, but he names himself after a known muslim terrorist. right..............

Thanks for the heads up ... don't know what I would do without your help.