The Future of China?, Where India left in dust? Options

[AnybodyKiller]

If you think about it, in the annals of human history, the greatest and most egregious crime the German National Socialists could ever ever possibly ever committed is they lost the war.

Period.

Everything else and every other ornament ever enunciated since is merely derivative - if not secondary.

"One does not simply walk into Russia in the winter."

And you were telling me to "expose myself"...

I've never met a Chinese guy so supportive of Nazi Germany.

Why did they lose in the first place though? In addition to over-amitious expansion, Poor strategic decisions by Hitler, infighting, Germany also went as far as to make it public policy to view other nations as scientifically and inherently inferior. That's very bad PR. The Holocaust was terrible (He would have done much better to simply expel the oligarchy IMO-- Also not made it about race), but many fascists committed similar and even worse atrocities yet the whole world didn't declare war on them.


Interestingly enough many Socialists and Communist (full-scale left) regimes suffer from a "overcentalized" power structure which leads to Facism (It's not just the right). The need for a centralized structure like this during war times is understandable, but most are unwilling to give up this power once the "struggle" is over and refuse to restore democracy. Hence the need for balance and objectivity rather than blind faith in a "side".

[richasiankid]

"One does not simply walk into Russia in the winter."

And you were telling me to "expose myself"...

I've never met a Chinese guy so supportive of Nazi Germany.

Why did they lose in the first place though? In addition to over-amitious expansion, Poor strategic decisions by Hitler, infighting, Germany also went as far as to make it public policy to view other nations as scientifically and inherently inferior. That's very bad PR. The Holocaust was terrible (He would have done much better to simply expel the oligarchy IMO-- Also not made it about race), but many fascists committed similar and even worse atrocities yet the whole world didn't declare war on them.


Interestingly enough many Socialists and Communist (full-scale left) regimes suffer from a "overcentalized" power structure which leads to Facism (It's not just the right). The need for a centralized structure like this during war times is understandable, but most are unwilling to give up this power once the "struggle" is over and refuse to restore democracy. Hence the need for balance and objectivity rather than blind faith in a "side".

Oh I still will never apologize if I love women more than men; nor will I apologize for loving my brother more than strangers.

Same with nation, same with country, and same with biological family.

Will you though?

[Yerroperil]

Indians are still suffering from colonia mentality which is why they dont even think about competing with their white overloards but they are always sooo jealous of china.

Maybe its because they lost the Sino-Indian war...

[AnybodyKiller]

Oh I still will never apologize if I love women more than men; nor will I apologize for loving my brother more than strangers.

Same with nation, same with country, and same with biological family.

Will you though?

Like I said, I have no problem with your most of your "agenda". When you use misinformation, hate/fear mongering, racial pseudo-science etc. to promote it however, I will "expose" it for what it is.

I will not apologize for loving my family more than others, but I won't $hit on my neighbor to make that point.

[richasiankid]

Like I said, I have no problem with your most of your "agenda". When you use misinformation, hate/fear mongering, racial pseudo-science etc. to promote it however, I will "expose" it for what it is.

I will not apologize for loving my family more than others, but I won't $hit on my neighbor to make that point.

Then exposing inequality at least from a Western if not UN perspective should be your first, no?

I think people should openly discuss facts (as in the 2 SD difference between Shanghai and the Indian cities) rather than sweep it under the rug - or pretend human population differences are the same or of equal potential.

Don't you at least agree that knowledge is better than ignorance?

[AnybodyKiller]

Then exposing inequality at least from a Western if not UN perspective should be your first, no?

I think people should openly discuss facts (as in the 2 SD difference between Shanghai and the Indian cities) rather than sweep it under the rug - or pretend human population differences are the same or of equal potential.

Don't you at least agree that knowledge is better than ignorance?

Of course knowledge is better than ignorance.

Like I've said on many occasions, I understand better than most the reality of inherent differences between populations and the reality of "racial clustering". However, saying that these differences make or break a civilization or that these are the only variables effecting these scores is blatant propaganda of the first world. The much more telling evidence shows for these tests to be development of human capital rather than innate human capital. Not to say they aren't developing more accurate tests that measure the different forms of innate intelligence (Much like athletics, the mind is dynamic and not one dimensional), but for now the studies trying to measure innate "G" accurately are laughably biased. One side is guilty of focusing on malleability, the other of data tampering and misinformation. The real ugly truth is that sometimes it is more cost efficient and conducive to national growth to simply let the undeveloped human capital starve rather than train them.

Even a look at history just a few hundred years ago ( not enough time for natural selection to account for such a leap forward in "innate intellect) shows that these societies with sub 100 IQs, of which there are many, have had great civilizations and empires. I mean, even modern genetics shows ancient Egyptians were "black" Another glaring example is country like Vietnam, Thailand and Burma being 2 SDs below China while having vastly overlapping populations. Again, basically like saying Germans, English, French and Swedes are 2 SDs away in terms of innate capacity.

This post has been edited by AnybodyKiller: Jan 11 2012, 04:08 PM

[DOUBLEMINT]

Anybodykiller,you are the one that takes these IQ tests the most seriously.lol.Just chill okay?IQ tests probably dont really reflect IQ,but it definitely reflects something can we just agree on that?

[AnybodyKiller]

Anybodykiller,you are the one that takes these IQ tests the most seriously.lol.Just chill okay?IQ tests probably dont really reflect IQ,but it definitely reflects something can we just agree on that?

I might as well just chill off the people who claim "Austronesians are black originally" or "Asians are descended from Europeans"... Sure I could sit back, knowing myself that these guys are full of $hit, but why should I bite my tongue? Would you chill if someone were trying to use these types of false science to prove something like "sick yellow man of China" as some kind of unquestionable truth?

[DOUBLEMINT]

I might as well just chill off the people who claim "Austronesians are black originally" or "Asians are descended from Europeans"... Sure I could sit back, knowing myself that these guys are full of $hit, but why should I bite my tongue? Would you chill if someone were trying to use these types of false science to prove something like "sick yellow man of China" as some kind of unquestionable truth?

Like there arent enough "chinese are black" videos on youtube?And all those fake studies about chinese penis size?

[richasiankid]

Of course knowledge is better than ignorance.

Like I've said on many occasions, I understand better than most the reality of inherent differences between populations and the reality of "racial clustering". However, saying that these differences make or break a civilization or that these are the only variables effecting these scores is blatant propaganda of the first world. The much more telling evidence shows for these tests to be development of human capital rather than innate human capital. Not to say they aren't developing more accurate tests that measure the different forms of innate intelligence (Much like athletics, the mind is dynamic and not one dimensional), but for now the studies trying to measure innate "G" accurately are laughably biased. One side is guilty of focusing on malleability, the other of data tampering and misinformation. The real ugly truth is that sometimes it is more cost efficient and conducive to national growth to simply let the undeveloped human capital starve rather than train them.

Even a look at history just a few hundred years ago ( not enough time for natural selection to account for such a leap forward in "innate intellect) shows that these societies with sub 100 IQs, of which there are many, have had great civilizations and empires. I mean, even modern genetics shows ancient Egyptians were "black" Another glaring example is country like Vietnam, Thailand and Burma being 2 SDs below China while having vastly overlapping populations. Again, basically like saying Germans, English, French and Swedes are 2 SDs away in terms of innate capacity.

And chimps and humans share 95-99.4% genetic similarity. Do you also think chimps have (roughly) same capital or potential as humans in how they construct society?


This post has been edited by richasiankid: Jan 12 2012, 04:00 AM

[elleX0]

And chimps and humans share 95-99.4% genetic similarity. Do you also think chimps have (roughly) same capital or potential as humans in how they construct society?

The way humans behave towards one another today in the 21st century, perhaps it would be better if we revert back to the Chimp era of evolution. They have happier lives.

This post has been edited by elleX0: Jan 12 2012, 11:26 AM

[AnybodyKiller]

Like there arent enough "chinese are black" videos on youtube?And all those fake studies about chinese penis size?

I post real quick on there too.

"LMFAO in your dreams!!!!"

EDIT: @RAK

Yeah you have to deal with relative distances, because if you think about it we share about 95% of our DNA with a mouse and 95-98.9 etc. with a chimp. However, they've done distance studies between Chimps and Humans that won't even properly register on FST(over 1 species of separation and can't be accurately measured by FST). The highest distance between any two populations on the planet is between Papuans and Paleo-Africans at ~0.3

Southeast Asians have less distancing between them than most, if not all of the European sub-clusters. 0.03! So please stop trying to imply that these "sub-clusters" are "less evolved". Are British less than Swedes? Are Italians less evolved than Norwegians?



So if you really think about it, Europeans are "closer" to chimps than Papuans are. Europeans are the cluster closest to the African clusters, yet are not inferior of course.

EDIT: Had to clarify sentence

This post has been edited by AnybodyKiller: Jan 12 2012, 07:56 PM

[AsiaticGlory]

I think Austronesians are proto-Mongoloids. In other words, they are the Asians who did not adapt to Siberia's ice age. I think I am a mix of proto-Mongoloid and Mongoloid.

This post has been edited by AsiaticGlory: Jan 12 2012, 05:53 PM

[AnybodyKiller]

I think Austronesians are proto-Mongoloids. In other words, they are the Asians who did not adapt to Siberia's ice age. I think I am a mix of proto-Mongoloid and Mongoloid.

Exactly, the differences between "Siberian", "East Asian" and "Southeast Asian" types are mostly about climate. Asians are very homogenous even when compared with Europeans on such a small space of land.

[fivers]

I post real quick on there too.

"LMFAO in your dreams!!!!"

EDIT: @RAK

Yeah you have to deal with relative distances, because if you think about it we share about 95% of our DNA with a mouse and 95-98.9 etc. with a chimp. However, they've done FST distancing on chimps showing 1.5 to 2.0 (or higher implying over 1 species of separation). The highest distance between any two populations on the planet is between Papuans and Paleo-Africans at ~0.3

Southeast Asians have less distancing between them than most, if not all of the European sub-clusters. 0.03! So please stop trying to imply that these "sub-clusters" are "less evolved". Are British less than Swedes? Are Italians less evolved than Norwegians?



So if you really think about it, Europeans are "closer" to chimps than Papuans are. Europeans are the cluster closest to the African clusters, yet are not inferior of course.

Wow! I didn't know about this at all... does this mean Asians are the cluster farest to chimps? >> meaning we are the superior race (I'm kidding lol)

[AnybodyKiller]

Wow! I didn't know about this at all... does this mean Asians are the cluster farest to chimps? >> meaning we are the superior race (I'm kidding lol)

I apologize. The post you quoted was actually from a very bad source to say the least... Here's an entry in Wiki regarding the subject.

A phylogenetic tree like the one shown above is usually derived from DNA or protein sequences from populations. Often mitochondrial DNA or Y chromosome sequences are used to study ancient human demographics. These single-locus sources of DNA do not recombine and are almost always inherited from a single parent, with only one known exception in mtDNA (Schwartz and Vissing 2002). Individuals from the various continental groups tend to be more similar to one another than to people from other continents. The tree is rooted in the common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans, which is believed to have originated in Africa. Horizontal distance in the diagram corresponds to two things:
Genetic distance. Given below the diagram, the genetic difference between humans and chimps is less than 2%,[3] or 20 times larger than the variation among modern humans.
Temporal remoteness of the most recent common ancestor. Rough estimates are given above the diagram, in millions of years. The mitochondrial most recent common ancestor of modern humans lived roughly 200,000 years ago, latest common ancestors of humans and chimps between four and seven million years ago.
Chimpanzees and humans belong to different genera, indicated in red. Formation of species and subspecies is also indicated, and the formation of races is indicated in the green rectangle to the right (note that only a very rough representation of human phylogeny is given). Note that vertical distances are not meaningful in this representation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evoluti...tics#Cladistics




(Probably won't put these displays in the OP though because they're not really on topic)

[richasiankid]

Anybodykiller,you are the one that takes these IQ tests the most seriously.lol.Just chill okay?IQ tests probably dont really reflect IQ,but it definitely reflects something can we just agree on that?

Agree totally - just re-read excited posts on this thread - his material and tone have now become almost a crusade against....even PISA? Think about it: if PISA (or TIMSS for that matter) scores are all so utterly meaningless, why not treat them as UFOs or astrology in their power to predict the future? No one gets worked up with astrology because people know in their heart of hearts they don't signal much; they don't mean anything.

But I say at the very least all of us agree we're different. Some are still more different than others though....

And I also think a 2+ standard deviation between populations (i.e. not individuals) between Shanghai and the two Indian cities should be a topic worthy of discussion when both giga-countries, with India usually supposedly to be edging out China given it has (tada!) the right conditions like (guess!) democracy. Get it? Love the weak, hate the strong. Camel in needle-eye and ecumenical Christian value etc. Indians, of course know better themselves and acknowledge such fact. Yet somehow we we should behave like docile children to blind ourselves the truth of diversity.

I ask one poster this: why should we expect Bushmen or Australian aborigines to rule the 21st century anyway?

(Pity?)

[AnybodyKiller]

Agree totally - just re-read excited posts on this thread - his material and tone have now become almost a crusade against....even PISA? Think about it: if PISA (or TIMSS for that matter) scores are all so utterly meaningless, why not treat them as UFOs or astrology in their power to predict the future? No one gets worked up with astrology because people know in their heart of hearts they don't signal much; they don't mean anything.

But I say at the very least all of us agree we're different. Some are still more different than others though....

And I also think a 2+ standard deviation between populations (i.e. not individuals) between Shanghai and the two Indian cities should be a topic worthy of discussion when both giga-countries, with India usually supposedly to be edging out China given it has (tada!) the right conditions like (guess!) democracy. Get it? Love the weak, hate the strong. Camel in needle-eye and ecumenical Christian value etc. Indians, of course know better themselves and acknowledge such fact. Yet somehow we we should behave like docile children to blind ourselves the truth of diversity.

I ask one poster this: why should we expect Bushmen or Australian aborigines to rule the 21st century anyway?

(Pity?)

It's no crusade against PISA, just a crusade against using PISA results to "imply" that global inequalities are based on inherent mental inequalities based on these PISA results.

Same with math test results, nothing wrong with these tests... BUT when you use the results to imply inherent "general intelligence" superiority of certain races over others it's misinformation. Masturbation at best.

EDIT: Same thing I said before, it's like someone saying Chinese are physically inferior because of the lack of Chinese athletes in Western sports. It's important to question every "lesson" and who the "teacher's" employer is.

This post has been edited by AnybodyKiller: Jan 12 2012, 11:04 PM

[richasiankid]

It's no crusade against PISA, just a crusade against using PISA results to "imply" that global inequalities are based on inherent mental inequalities based on these PISA results.

Same with math test results, nothing wrong with these tests... BUT when you use the results to imply inherent "general intelligence" superiority of certain races over others it's misinformation. Masturbation at best.

EDIT: Same thing I said before, it's like someone saying Chinese are physically inferior because of the lack of Chinese athletes in Western sports. It's important to question every "lesson" and who the "teacher's" employer is.

And what do differential PISA results presented educate you sir if you can't refute it?

(1) Nothing?
(2) Cultural superiority?
(3) Environmental accident?
(4) Western propaganda?

Wow.

Choose your poison when you hate the world.

[AnybodyKiller]

And what do differential PISA results presented educate you sir if you can't refute it?

(1) Nothing?
(2) Cultural superiority?
(3) Environmental accident?
(4) Western propaganda?

Wow.

Choose your poison when you hate the world.

Funny that you try to make it a scantron type answer to play into what you perceive.

I've already said many times that "development of human capital" rather than "innate human capital" is what these tests really measure. Really in the end all these IQ type tests really promote is the disposal of the least developed human capital due to the fact that it would be cheaper to get rid of them than incorporate them. Capitalism has become a "Corporatocracy" in this day and age.

Scientists are already constructing tests that determine the aptitude of individuals in multiple talents. Modern science is more and more in favor of multiple forms of intellect.

Before other countries got involved in genetics, anthropology and even history.. It was much more Eurocentric. Many of the older anthropological studies are extremely Eurocentric. I can dig them up if you insist.



This post has been edited by AnybodyKiller: Jan 12 2012, 11:57 PM