Siam and Angkor? Options

[LoveIsAllAround]

This guy is delusional and in denial. A Lanna person told you that call themselves Lao, yet he goes to question that person. what a fu-ken retard.

LOL, didn't you read my reply to her? I really love to read her evidence. Just wait and see. you dumbass galee troll.

[LoveIsAllAround]

Tell me about it. Isn't it same "Nokhmen"/Loveisallaround that made fun of Lao because of the kingdom Lawachangkarat? Because of the name has "Lawa" in it, he automatically said Lao are the descendent the Lawa people. If that's true, then Lanna people are not Tai, But Lawa "Lao". Using his logic. Lao is Lao, Tai is Tai which change it to t(h)ai, which mean Lanna are Lao/Lawa.

Damn I thought you were Khmer. But you are LAO. great!

Lanna is Lanna. Lao is Lao. I don't know why you don't wanna be Lao anymore.

Be proud of LAO, would you? LOL

[feezy]

Damn I thought you were Khmer. But you are LAO. great!

Lanna is Lanna. Lao is Lao. I don't know why you don't wanna be Lao anymore.

Be proud of LAO, would you? LOL

You thought wrong. When did I ever said i wasn't proud of LAO? Speaking to a person who likes the flip flop what race he is, that's a low blow.





This post has been edited by feezy: Feb 13 2012, 01:22 AM

[LoveIsAllAround]

You thought wrong. When did I ever said i wasn't proud of LAO? Speaking to a person who likes the flip flop what race he is, that's a low blow.

Great!

Then don't say Lao is Tai. You garlee dumbass.

[Boolfaporopat]

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[MoeMoe]

Tai Yuan or Tai Yonok

This group consists of around 315,382 people in Nan (from a 2550 B.E. survey). Tai Yuan people are also the biggest group of the population in the Upper Northern Region. They live in Chiang Rai, Chiang Mai, Lampang, Lampoon, Prae, Nan and Phayao, and call themselves Kon Muang (People of the North). In one important immigration in 2347 B.E. during the reign of King Rama I of Rattanakosin, ancestors of Tai Yuan people were forced to emigrate from Chiang Saen to several cities: 1. Bangkok, and then to Ratchaburi and Saraburi; 2. Nan; 3. Chiang Mai; 4. Lampang, and 5. Vientiane. At the time, these people were called Lao Phoong Dam (Black-Belly Laos) because the male members of the group usually had black tattoos covering their body from the stomach down to the upper part of the legs. Tai Yuan people speak the northern dialect. They are Buddhists but also practicing rites to worship the spirits of their ancestors. They make a living in and around river plains and have unique clothing styles

Tai Yuan

Isn't Thailand a nation mixed of Mon, Tai, and Chinese people? What's wrong with that?

Also are you saying Thai people used to call people in Northern and Northeast Thailand "Lao"? Are you b.sing as usual?



I agree with the logical ones. What's wrong with that?

The Luang Prabang Chronicle and The Chronicle of the Emerald Buddha.Before continuing with the mythical history of the Emerald Buddha, it is important to consider the Luang Prabang chronicle. The Fine Arts Department in Bangkok argues that the 1967 publication of Tamnan Phra Keao Morakot (A Historical Account of the Emerald Buddha) contains the 1788 Thai translation of the Luang Prabang version of the history. Kennon Breazeale notes that since this version was rewritten in the Fifth Reign, it should be treated cautiously, since the author not only brought the history up to date but also may have 'corrected' some passages in the period prior to 1788.[8] << Thailand attempt to Change History and Historical Documents to fit their agenda

•Breazeale also feels that the date of the composition can be determined tentatively from the terms Lao Phung Dam ("Black-belly Lao") and Lao Phung Khao ("White-belly Lao"). According to Breazeale, these were old terms known to the Thai, but they seem to be used here to indicate the northern region (Lanna and Nan) and the upper-Mekong region (Luang Prabang), which, during 1890-1899 were officially designated as the Lao Phung Dam and Lao Phung Khao circles, respectively. Breazeale believes that these terms would not have been used in such a composition after 1899, because of Thai policy of suppressing ethnic identifications in official toponyms. Given the Thai government's efforts for the years prior to 1893 to find documents in provincial towns to support Thai territorial claims in the Mekong basin, Breazeale guesses that the anonymous document was written before 1893, hence his tentative dating of 1890-1892. << Thailand attempt to change history and historical documents to fit their agenda


Translation, Thailand attempted to erase ethnic identification by suppressing terms used by the locals to identify themselves.

[MoeMoe]

Tell me about it. Isn't it same "Nokhmen"/Loveisallaround that made fun of Lao because of the kingdom Lawachangkarat? Because of the name has "Lawa" in it, he automatically said Lao are the descendent the Lawa people. If that's true, then Lanna people are not Tai, But Lawa "Lao". Using his logic. Lao is Lao, Tai is Tai which change it to t(h)ai, which mean Lanna are Lao/Lawa.

i remember him trying to make fun of Lao is Lawa, but he doesnt realize the Lawa ppl live in Nothern Thailand, so they also have to be the Tai Youn also. but he ignores that of course.

[MoeMoe]

Please be respectfull! Lanna not Siam or Thai. Lanna call Siam and Thai by force. Lanna people not Siam. Lanna not Lanxang.
Lanna independent kingdom in past. Our people Lao people. Lanna Lao kingdom.

สมัยตะก่อน ล้านนาก่อคือลาวเน้อเจ้า


This sound Thai(Siam) to you? This Lao langauang not Thai.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLyApw3DyAY...feature=related

My X-girlfriend from Chiangrai use to not understand her grandmother, she would tell me when she spoke to her grandmother she would talk the old language, so she would have difficulity speaking with her, when we dated she came to visit me, she said to me, "Why does your mom speak the same dialect as my grandmother?" i told her, my mom is speaking Lao...

Thailand has been suppressing ethnic identity since the 5th reign of the current dynasty of Thailand, by force of course.

•Breazeale also feels that the date of the composition can be determined tentatively from the terms Lao Phung Dam ("Black-belly Lao") and Lao Phung Khao ("White-belly Lao"). According to Breazeale, these were old terms known to the Thai, but they seem to be used here to indicate the northern region (Lanna and Nan) and the upper-Mekong region (Luang Prabang), which, during 1890-1899 were officially designated as the Lao Phung Dam and Lao Phung Khao circles, respectively. Breazeale believes that these terms would not have been used in such a composition after 1899, because of Thai policy of suppressing ethnic identifications in official toponyms. Given the Thai government's efforts for the years prior to 1893 to find documents in provincial towns to support Thai territorial claims in the Mekong basin, Breazeale guesses that the anonymous document was written before 1893, hence his tentative dating of 1890-1892.

[Buddhalove]

Thanks for the info.

[MoeMoe]

Thanks for the info.

No problem

[feezy]

[MoeMoe]

its absolutely horrible how Central Siamese tried to wipe out Lanna identity, and now they are here saying how wonderful it is and how Kham Muang is their favorite Thai culture... If the Central Thai government had their way, Lanna identity would Not exist at all.

These Central Thais in the last hundred years have been systematically erasing all aspects of Lanna Culture, Central Thais made it illegal to write Lanna script, Central Thais made it illegal to teach Kham Muang language. All public displays would have to be in Siamese, and All aspects of Tai Yuan ppl was suppose to be erased and Central Thai customs and Culture was to be Taught and adopted by ALL Lanna children, Monks were not allowed to write in Lanna script, Siamese made Lanna Monks go to central Thailand and lean Siamese language and script and where told to bring what they were taught back to Northern Thailand so they were to teach everyone Siamese Culture, language and script.

[SabaiSabai]

Thats actually a pretty good find feezey. Can you share me the link?

Anyway, This falls in line with what I have said about all this Khmer empire business before hand. The Tai people were already in the vicinity of SEA long before the fake Khmer empire had ever expanded into that region. So how on earth do Khmers think they are the Khom that inhabited this area before the Tai came?

This, ladies and gentlemen means that the Khom were a progenitor Austroasiatic group of people that inhabited SEA. Most likely these people turned into the Mons of Ramanadesa. The true ancestors of the Siamese ancient Siamese people.

We can go soul searching for the origin of Laos people later. We've just about cracked the Siamese and Angkor history

Though I have to agree with the Lao folks here. My wifes grandfather wrote in ancient text (which they call Lao script) and can also speak Lao dialect. But then he can also speak Passa Muang (Tai Yuan) dialect. Lanna and Laos have deep connections. But we must not forget the black and white evidence of everything from the 13th century. The Ramkhamhaeng Stele clearly identifies which people were Lao and Which people were Tai and their geographical locations. Then we can tract the population migration or movement in later generations to cross reference with this to see if those people who are there now or within the last 3 generations are related to the Lao in any way.

TBH with Lanna's proximity and history connected to Khun Borom etc Im not surprised many of its inhabitants are of Laos descent.

But lets not forget. Si Kottaboon aka Land Chenla aka ancient Laos. Wouldn't this then make Laos people austroasiatic? If not and you follow the route that the Lao are the same group that came from Chiang Saen and Lan Xang, wouldn't then these people be Tai as they are recorded to be known as Tai rather than assumed to be as Lao.

When did the first instance the people call themselves Lao appear in history? and don't reply with because it was from lawachakaraj. Its just an assumption.

This post has been edited by SabaiSabai: Aug 18 2012, 09:02 PM

[feezy]

I'll look for it when i can but in the meantime i forgot i also got this from the same chronicles and realized i didnt upload it until now.

[Buddhalove]

Another great info.

[feezy]

Another great info.

Here's another support fact that Lanna are Lao people. This was a massage from Taksin of Thonburi Kingdom. Even he recognized these people were Lao so why do these Jek think Lanna people are not Lao?

[HermesPrince]

Here's another support fact that Lanna are Lao people. This was a massage from Taksin of Thonburi Kingdom. Even he recognized these people were Lao so why do these Jek think Lanna people are not Lao?

would you mind to show us the link ??

[llLUCiFERll]

Let me just say that I am Khmer and alot of time I am pretty neutral but reading through all this, it reminds me that it is common for people to try to find any doubt in their mind of whats already been provided and proven. Ofcourse people always wants to relate something of greatness to themselves maybe to make them feel more superior and boost their egos, eventhough none of us here alive on earth actually contribute to the building of Angkor Wat. Im reading through some of these so called" proofs " provided by Thai members in their OWN research from their OWN resources and I can't help of the bias-ness thats brought up and I can't help but to just smile to myself. Let me just say that the world has greater un-bias researchers and teams of experts and its their job for years and years to dig out actual evidence. You cannot compare that to your own resources in your imaginary mind. But like I said, its common for people to think othewise. Lets just say that if I really wanted to and have so much time, I can probably even link Cambodia or Vietnam or Laos to the Taj Mahal.. LMAO. I believe in this world, in one way or another we are all link together in some ways.
To be neutral though, I really don't mind even if your "proof" turns into facts and I hope you can provide it to the world eventhough I highly doubts it. If it was up to me, if it really boils down to it, I would trade Angkor Wat in a heartbeat for Kampuchea and Khmer people to have peace and prosperity for 1,000 years. Because to me, eventhough it is a great achievement for the people of the past, but it is still just rocks being put together. To me, human lives is far greater than that. So if Thai people is so bent up on wanting to claim Angkor Wat as their own, then try and convince the world. I am confident that these amateur " proofs " and resources is just something of fictions. Its " Mickey Mouse " stuff and it makes me smile and kinda feel sympathetic to those who try. Try and try and try in your mind and your own circle but its never gonna go anywhere.

[SabaiSabai]

This Micky mouse history is about as concrete as what brought historians to believe that it was the Khmers that built Angkor.

Suriyavarman I built Angkor Wat. Suriyavarman came from nagara Sri Dhammaraja. Suriyavarman was not a Khmer. Nagara Sri Dhammaraja is in Siam. This is all backed with evidence, yet history books say it was a Khmer king that built Angkor Wat.

Well done these professional historians and how they have shaped history.

History does not lie. Only historians do.

[Suriin1234]

I even don't even think many people care if Angkor Wat was built by Khmer or Siam beside Khmer people and few Thai people, other than that most of the world don't even know our country and you can probably include Thailand on that too.