Luzon as the Lesser Song Dynasty and related topics, Not for Sinophobes. |
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Luzon as the Lesser Song Dynasty and related topics, Not for Sinophobes. |
Jan 11 2012, 09:16 PM
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#1
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AF Guru Group: Members Posts: 3,134 Joined: 15-December 06 From: Philippines, China, Spain |
The Luzon Empire (呂宋國)
Written History: In 1279 AD, in the Naval Battle of Yamen (崖門戰役) at the Pearl River Delta (珠江), the final conflict between the Mongol Forces (元) and the Southern Sung Empire (南宋國) was fought. The Mongol forces managed to advance to the center of the Southern Sung fleet and attack the boat of the child emperor Songdi Bing (宋帝昺). Seeing no hope of breaking free, the Minister of the Left (重臣) Liu Xiufu (陸秀夫) decided to commit suicide with the boy emperor rather than be captured by the Mongols. He jumped into the sea with the boy emperor and many officials and concubines followed suit. A few days later, the tattered remains of the boy emperor was found floating in Shekou Bay(蛇口). This sealed the fate of the Southern Song Empire. Purported Oral History: Before the final sea battle at Yamen (崖門戰役), Minister of the Left Liu Xiufu (陸秀夫) disguised his own son to look like the boy emperor Songdi Bing (宋帝昺). When the Mongols finally managed to attack the center of the Southern Sung fleet, Liu Xiufu committed suicide with his own son disguised as the emperor. The finest and most loyal of the Southern Sung fleet under the command of Grand General Zhang Shijie (張世傑). managed to break off from the battle with the real emperor and escape across the sea. There they established the Lesser Song Empire (呂宋國) at its capital Tondo (東都). Facts: 1. Even though the corpse of the last emperor of the Southern Song Empire was reportedly found, no graveyard was ever erected. 2. Chinese historians agree that the Southern Sung Fleet under the command of Grand General Zhang Shijie (張世傑) did survive the final Battle of Yamen (崖門戰役) and that they simply vanished from record. 3. Tondo (東都) was the capital of an empire recorded by the Ming Dynasty (大明國) as the Luzon Empire (呂宋國). 4. Luzon Empire (呂宋國) was conquered by the Spaniards in 1571 and the province of Pampanga was the first colonial province carved out of it. The whole northern island was named Luzon. Tondo (東都) still exist today as a mere suburb of Manila. ___________________________________________ "The Philippines then was made up of many little kingdoms with chieftains who were friendly or hostile to each other, but who recognized each other's independence. Trade and commerce was carried on among themselves and with foreigners. The Chinese, Japanese, Arabs, Siamese, Sumatrans and other neighboring traders had brought to the country their various customs and cultures, without attempting to bring the authority of their kings." Certain tribes such as Tinggianes and Sambals have even the same hairstyles as the Chinese. Even as Legaspi conquered the various kingdoms of Luzon, he noticed that there are already hundreds of thousands of Chinese concentrated in the central plains and western coasts of Luzon, either living in the city-states of the natives, OR LIVING IN THEIR OWN CITY-STATES. SO with regard to the last sentence, DO CHINESE have the right to the PHILIPPINES? THE ANSWER IS A RESOUNDING YES! The Philippines belongs not only to the Taiwanese Aboriginal descendants or Malays but ALSO to the Chinese who settled here. ___________________________________________ Ming annals have reported kingdoms in Luzon and called their kings as "wang" / "ong" (in Hokkien). If not for their Chinese connection, they would be called and treated as "barbarian rulers". The following selection talks about internal politics (and way of life including crimes) in Luzon and the large numbers and way of life of the Hokkien in Luzon. It also attests the closeness of Luzon to Zhangzhou (Fujian province). The Ming Annals about Luzon in Chinese: http://web.archive.org/web/20080618154044/...ztyz/ms323.html ___________________________________________ "Duck culture was also practiced by the natives, particularly those around Pateros and Taguig City. This resembled the Chinese methods of artificial incubation of eggs and the knowledge of every phase of a duck's life. This tradition is carried on until modern times." "Some of them used compass similar to those used among maritime communities of Borneo and traders of China, although most had no need for such devices." Even agricultural and farming methods in the Philippines were reportedly brought over from Mainland China, according to Prof. Arsenio Manuel and many archaeologists. ___________________________________________ The Haplotype O3 in many Filipinos (especially in Luzon) also attests to a migration from Mainland China. The premier ruler of Luzon come from a long line of rulers (mixed Bruneian-Chinese) who settled in what is now Pampanga. They thus share bloodlinks with the present Brunei royalty, as well as with the royalties of Tang Dynasty and Song Dynasty of China. If you take a look at it, ALL the world's royalties are interrelated to one another, and this includes the original Chinese ruler of Luzon who intermarried with a Bruneian sultan and eventually gave rise to the Luzon Empire/Kingdom. Kapampangans have oral traditions about the existence of a large "empire" that traded with other nations. Yes, this is the Lesser Song Dynasty of China, eventually localized into the Liu-sung-kuo, or Luzon Empire. Manila north of Pasig River was still Kapampangan during the 1500s. Only around 1600s did the Tagalogs capitulated the Kapampangans and occupied Manila, Bulacan, Bataan, and Nueva Ecija. Otherwise, all these are Kapampangan territory. Kapampangans are largely descendants of AMI PEOPLE FROM TAIWAN, not Malay immigrants. On the other hand, Tagalogs and Visayans are partly Malays. Tagalogs were considered to be a Visayan people before (and up to now, pure linguists consider Tagalog to be a Visayan language). Tagalog region during the 1500s only consisted of Batangas up to the Pasig River in Manila, and a few plains in Laguna. Large swathes of Rizal and Quezon then were still largely Negrito/Proto-Ainuid/Australoid. There were many city-states (city-kingdoms) in Luzon then. The city-states were not only made by natives - in fact, there were A LOT OF CITY-STATES FOUNDED BY JAPANESE, SIAMESE, and CHINESE MIGRANTS! __________________ So as you can see, the forced imposition of Malay ideals and supposed Malay connection to Luzon is stupid. Luzon is mostly Taiwanese Aboriginal with Chinese and of course, the usual Australoid suspects again. And the haplotypes attests to this. The reason Luzon natives don't look Chinese for obvious reasons is that Luzonians, like other Filipino peoples, have heavy Australoid admixtures (6-35%, depending on the source), but still, that does not justify the willful erasure of the Chinese origins of the Luzon empire or the Chinese connection of Luzon's peoples. This post has been edited by ocrapdm: Jan 11 2012, 09:17 PM |
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Jan 13 2012, 01:18 AM
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AF Pro Group: Members Posts: 1,412 Joined: 3-March 09 From: Los Indios Bravos' Mu |
I think this theory was originally conceptualized by Mike Pangilinan together with his Fil-Chinese friends.
What is proven however is Ong Sum Bing/Ping or Huang Sen Ping, probably a Ming prince or an official, was given a title of Pengiran Maharaja Lela by a Bruneian Sultan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huang_Senping Nakhoda/Nakoda Ragam or the Bruneian Sultan Bolkeiah or known locally as Gat Lontok together with his uncle, Ong Sum Ping, invaded the Luzon kingdom in order to monopolize the China trade. Some historians even confounded this Srilela as the first ruler of Manila, another Srilela regarded as Raja Soliman I, which was actually the son of Nakhoda Ragam with the princess daughter of the vanquished Majapahit ruler of Luzon. Another Majapahit prince, Prince Balagtas, the son of Angka Wijaya with Princess Sasaban of the Kingdom of Sapa(Kingdom of Luzon), married the daughter of Sultan Bolkeiah. The Bruneian rulers were indeed of mixed ancestry with Arabic, Indian and Chinese admixture on indigenous Malay/Bisayan root ancestry as symbolized on their royal ceremonies. This post has been edited by trismegistos: Jan 13 2012, 01:32 AM |
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Jan 13 2012, 04:16 AM
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#3
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AF Guru Group: Members Posts: 3,134 Joined: 15-December 06 From: Philippines, China, Spain |
I think this theory was originally conceptualized by Mike Pangilinan together with his Fil-Chinese friends. What is proven however is Ong Sum Bing/Ping or Huang Sen Ping, probably a Ming prince or an official, was given a title of Pengiran Maharaja Lela by a Bruneian Sultan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huang_Senping Nakhoda/Nakoda Ragam or the Bruneian Sultan Bolkeiah or known locally as Gat Lontok together with his uncle, Ong Sum Ping, invaded the Luzon kingdom in order to monopolize the China trade. Some historians even confounded this Srilela as the first ruler of Manila, another Srilela regarded as Raja Soliman I, which was actually the son of Nakhoda Ragam with the princess daughter of the vanquished Majapahit ruler of Luzon. Another Majapahit prince, Prince Balagtas, the son of Angka Wijaya with Princess Sasaban of the Kingdom of Sapa(Kingdom of Luzon), married the daughter of Sultan Bolkeiah. The Bruneian rulers were indeed of mixed ancestry with Arabic, Indian and Chinese admixture on indigenous Malay/Bisayan root ancestry as symbolized on their royal ceremonies. The amount of Chinese annals regarding Luzon can't be discounted. Likewise, the large amount of Filipinos especially in Luzon bearing the Haplotype O3 can't be discounted as well. There's bound to be at least some Chinese influence or Chinese descendants among Filipinos today who are descendants of precolonial migrants to Luzon. I think it's not farfetched to say that Luzon Kingdom was in fact established by Chinese nobility from the Song Dynasty, built on a pre-existing political structure built by Bruneian royalty, centered in what is now Pampanga province. But.. there's no proof as of now that Majapahit did control Luzon (at the most, it did controlled only Sulu). Likewise, there is this confounding information on whether the Bisayas of Borneo are similar and one as the Bisayas of the Philippines and whether they really derived their name from the Srivijayan empire. Anyhow, with the above data you're presenting, it seems like the datus, rajahs, and sultans were really NOT locals, but Bruneian or foreigners. |
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Jan 13 2012, 06:59 AM
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#4
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AF Pro Group: Members Posts: 1,412 Joined: 3-March 09 From: Los Indios Bravos' Mu |
The amount of Chinese annals regarding Luzon can't be discounted. Likewise, the large amount of Filipinos especially in Luzon bearing the Haplotype O3 can't be discounted as well. There's bound to be at least some Chinese influence or Chinese descendants among Filipinos today who are descendants of precolonial migrants to Luzon. I think it's not farfetched to say that Luzon Kingdom was in fact established by Chinese nobility from the Song Dynasty, built on a pre-existing political structure built by Bruneian royalty, centered in what is now Pampanga province. But.. there's no proof as of now that Majapahit did control Luzon (at the most, it did controlled only Sulu). Likewise, there is this confounding information on whether the Bisayas of Borneo are similar and one as the Bisayas of the Philippines and whether they really derived their name from the Srivijayan empire. Anyhow, with the above data you're presenting, it seems like the datus, rajahs, and sultans were really NOT locals, but Bruneian or foreigners. Well, yeah, the Indonesians too have a lot of O3. But these O3 are much older phylogenetically or molecularly speaking than the relatively recent subclades from the Chinese pointing the Southern Origin of O3 for both Chinese and Indonesians including Filipinos. The same is the case for O1 and O2. The Majapahit Nagakertagama document mentioned Soloot(Sulu) and Saludong, ancient name by the ancient Indonesians for Luzon similar to the way the Bruenians called Luzon or Lusung as Selurung. Link> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarakertagama Nick Joaquin, Isabelo delos Reyes, Austin Craig and Otley Beyer talked about the Majapahit rulers of Manila as attested by the Will of Pansonum written circa 17th century. That Majapahit ruler Angka Wijaya married Dayang Sasaban of the Kingdom of Sapa and begotten Prince Balagtas who married a daughter of Sultan Bolkeiah of Brunei, from his wife, a daughter from the vanquished Lord of Luzon. I remember Nick Joaquin writing in the PDI claiming that the Kapampangans came from Southern China as the latter are lighter skinned compared with the other natives. He must probably mixed it up the Bellwood's theory. The ancient royals had a penchant of marrying other ancient royals for trade and political alliances and thus born the Srivijayan and Majapahit networks with Old Malay as lingua franca. And thus the companion of Magellan from Malacca could converse with the native rulers of Central Visayas and understood one another. In Malacca at those time btw, there were lots of Luzonian traders and officials in fact the custom commisioner and police chief, which was second only to the Sultan of Malacca in rank was from Luzon and had a rich relative also from Luzon who traded pepper to China. The rich trader from Luzon also rented his ships and mariners to the Portuguese explorers to teach the Portuguese the trade routes to China and Japan as documented by Tome Pires. As mentioned, those foreign nobilities had married into the native nobilities to continue the bloodlines for their native subjects. The native subjects considered the offsprings of foreign rulers marrying with their native rulers as their own so much so that they think they too were from Borneo or from Sumatra. Like the Bisayans claiming they are from Borneo or Kapampangans coming from both Borneo and Sumatra. Must be the result of centuries of western colonization. Looking for outside for their lost roots and identity. The Laguna Copperplate inscription circa 10th century AD, showed the Ruler of Tondo acting as judge and commander in chief to his allies as far as Butuan(Diwata) and Medang in Sumatra/Java. And the language used is not Chinese but a mixture of Old Malay, Old Kapampangan and Old Tagalog written in Kavi script with use of Sanskrit titles and time reckoning terminologies. At that time Srivijayan was at its peak. Isn't that Srivijayan networking at work? There was even the claim that Srivijayan capital was in Luzon and not in Palembang(Palinfong in Chinese writings) in Sumatra. It was actually the westerner Coedes who coined the term Srivijayan empire for what the Chinese called Shilifoshi or Sanfotsi or Sanfoqi or what the Arabs called Zabag or Zabag(Saba)[Kingdom of Sapa? or Rizal's Tawalisi] and Coedes speculated Srivijayan empire aka Zabag or Sanfotsi as centered in Palembang because of the Bukit inscription found near Palembang mentioned the word Vijaya meaning glorious. Zabag or Sanfotsi was a world of marvels to various adventurers as the Gold Isles with a maharaja who ruled among rajas, an entrepot, an epitome of wealth. And so the Portuguese at the turn of Western discovery of East Indies saw the Luzonians as more eminent and wealthy than the Chins(Chinese). According to Al Biruni, the residence of the Majaraja of Zabaj or Zabag was just east of Champa kingdom and not south where Palembang is, the supposed capital of the Srivijayan empire. Luzon is exactly east of Champa now Vietnam. http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/sanfotsizabag.htm QUOTE The Chinese accounts of Sanfotsi and Toupo started from about the 10th century and 5th century respectively, and both continued up until about the late 1200's. During most of this time, the Muslim geographers also wrote on the same area, basing their accounts on the tales of merchants, ambassadors, etc., to the region. Most scholars are in agreement that Sanfotsi was known to the Muslims as Zabag, while Toupo was known as Wak-wak.
Al-Biruni, a noted writer during this period who travelled to India wrote that Zabag was placed on the eastern side of the Sea of Sanf (Champa or coastal central/south Vietnam)[NOW SOUTH CHINA SEA]. This is confirmed by another famous geographer, Masudi, who stated Zabaj was oriented toward Khmer, which comprises modern Cambodia and South Vietnam, as Ceylon is oriented toward Madurai in South India. It was known as an island rich in gold mines. Mas'udi noted that this kingdom had on its east side an ocean of unknown extent, which was basically the same as the Great Eastern Ocean-Sea of the Chinese. The latter ocean was also located to the east of Sanfotsi and Toupo, and it was here that the weilu was located, where waters began to go "downward." It is interesting to note that the Muslim writers mention some interesting flora and fauna when describing the main island of the kingdom of Zabaj. Among them were the dwarf buffalo, the python and the giant camphor tree. Now the dwarf buffalo must be either the tamaraw of Mindoro, or the anoa of Celebes. The python is native to both the Philippines and Borneo, as are the giant camphor trees, although these are more common in Borneo. "In the sea of Champa (off central/south Vietnam) is the empire of Maharaja, the king of the islands, who rules over an empire without limit and has innumerable troops. Even the most rapid vessels could not complete in two years a tour round the isles which are under his possesssion. The territories of this king produce all sorts of spices and aromatics, and no other sovereign of the world gets as much wealth from the soil." (Mas'udi, AD 943) "the eastern islands in this ocean (Sea of Champa), which are nearer to China than India, are the islands of Zabaj, called by the Hindus, Suvarnadvipa, i.e. the gold islands*... because you obtain much gold as deposit if you wash only a little of the earth of that country." (Al-Biruni, 1030 AD) "On its shores (i.e. of the sea of Sanf or Champa), are the dominions of a King called Mihraj, who possesses a great number of populous and fertile islands, covered with fields and pastures, and producing ivory, camphor, nutmeg, mace, clove, aloeswood, cardamom, cubeb..." (Idrisi, 1150) "The gold is plentiful, the horse bits, the chains and necklaces of monkeys, dogs and other beasts are of gold. The chiefs used golden bricks for their houses and forts and official decrees are engraved upon golden paper." (Hordadzbeh) "Some people told me they had seen a man who had been to Wak-wak, to do business there. He had told of the riches of the country and the islands. I do not mean that their country is so important, but that the people of Wak-wak are numerous. Among them are men who look like Turks. Of all God's creatures none are more capable or clever in the arts; but they are sly, cunning, deceitful and very quick and knowledgeable in everthing they undertake." (Shariyar, 10th century) *On the subject of the gold of Wak-wak, Pigafetta stated that when he reached the Philippines that even the common people had massive gold ornaments and that everyone ate from gold plates and partly covered their houses with gold. The Philippines still has world-class gold reserves. This post has been edited by trismegistos: Jan 13 2012, 09:11 AM |
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Jan 13 2012, 08:09 PM
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#5
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AF Guru Group: Members Posts: 3,134 Joined: 15-December 06 From: Philippines, China, Spain |
Well, yeah, the Indonesians too have a lot of O3. But these O3 are much older phylogenetically or molecularly speaking than the relatively recent subclades from the Chinese pointing the Southern Origin of O3 for both Chinese and Indonesians including Filipinos. The same is the case for O1 and O2. The Majapahit Nagakertagama document mentioned Soloot(Sulu) and Saludong, ancient name by the ancient Indonesians for Luzon similar to the way the Bruenians called Luzon or Lusung as Selurung. Link> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarakertagama Well, don't forget that Indonesians are also partly Daics. Some Daics also have O3, and that's where Indonesians probably got their O3. But see, Indonesians have much lesser O3 than do Filipinos. And in fact, I think it's safe to deduce that those with O3 are the ones in Indonesia with the lighter skin, while those who have darker skin (and look kinda Veddoid) are O2 or O1. Likewise, the Ming Annals and other Hokkien commercial documents refer to Luzon as "liu-sung", considering it as part of the "liu-chiu" (Ryukyu) group of islands. Considering both Chinese and Indonesian, I think the word "liu-sung" has a meaning in Chinese. I guess it's just a place name in Indonesian. And in Chinese, it allegedly means :"backbone of the Song", being bastion for the overthrown Song rulers of China. Nick Joaquin, Isabelo delos Reyes, Austin Craig and Otley Beyer talked about the Majapahit rulers of Manila as attested by the Will of Pansonum written circa 17th century. That Majapahit ruler Angka Wijaya married Dayang Sasaban of the Kingdom of Sapa and begotten Prince Balagtas who married a daughter of Sultan Bolkeiah of Brunei, from his wife, a daughter from the vanquished Lord of Luzon. I remember Nick Joaquin writing in the PDI claiming that the Kapampangans came from Southern China as the latter are lighter skinned compared with the other natives. He must probably mixed it up the Bellwood's theory. Majapahit rulers? More like Majapahit envoys. The ONLY direct connection that the Filipinos have to the "other Malays" is through Borneans, specifically Bruneians. Never to Majapahit rulers from Java. And anyway, the endpoint is this: that Luzon's rulers were still foreign. Well, it's true. Kapampangans are the direct descendants of Taiwanese aboriginals from Taiwan and are not mixed with Daic (through Indonesian) blood. That's why the Northern Filipino peoples' languages such as Ilocano, Cordillera languages, Kapampangan, Gaddang, Ibaloi, and Ivatan are VERY MUCH SIMILAR to Formosan languages, whereas all the Central and Southern Filipino languages are grouped together and are similar to Bornean languages. The ancient royals had a penchant of marrying other ancient royals for trade and political alliances and thus born the Srivijayan and Majapahit networks with Old Malay as lingua franca. And thus the companion of Magellan from Malacca could converse with the native rulers of Central Visayas and understood one another. In Malacca at those time btw, there were lots of Luzonian traders and officials in fact the custom commisioner and police chief, which was second only to the Sultan of Malacca in rank was from Luzon and had a rich relative also from Luzon who traded pepper to China. The rich trader from Luzon also rented his ships and mariners to the Portuguese explorers to teach the Portuguese the trade routes to China and Japan as documented by Tome Pires. As mentioned, those foreign nobilities had married into the native nobilities to continue the bloodlines for their native subjects. The native subjects considered the offsprings of foreign rulers marrying with their native rulers as their own so much so that they think they too were from Borneo or from Sumatra. Like the Bisayans claiming they are from Borneo or Kapampangans coming from both Borneo and Sumatra. Must be the result of centuries of western colonization. Looking for outside for their lost roots and identity. Yeah, Luzon people had a colony in Melaka. But Tome Pires, in his accounts, as well said that the Luzon (Lucoes) people had NO king but were governed by a group of elders. Perhaps he was referring to some islands near Luzon, or to some barangays in Luzon which were relatively independent of the Luzon Kingdom (Liu-sung-kuo). Old Malay was understood throughout the "Malay" Archipelago because it was the primary language of the colonizers who styled themselves as rulers of the Philippine locals. The "native" royalty intermarried with the royalty of Brunei because firstand foremost, these "native rulers" were in fact migrants from Brunei. Seeing that the Filipino peoples were not united, chose to capitulate them and make them subordinates. Ergo, Philippines has no MALAY roots at all. But it has Formosan and Bornean roots. The Laguna Copperplate inscription circa 10th century AD, showed the Ruler of Tondo acting as judge and commander in chief to his allies as far as Butuan(Diwata) and Medang in Sumatra/Java. And the language used is not Chinese but a mixture of Old Malay, Old Kapampangan and Old Tagalog written in Kavi script with use of Sanskrit titles and time reckoning terminologies. At that time Srivijayan was at its peak. Isn't that Srivijayan networking at work? There was even the claim that Srivijayan capital was in Luzon and not in Palembang(Palinfong in Chinese writings) in Sumatra. It was actually the westerner Coedes who coined the term Srivijayan empire for what the Chinese called Shilifoshi or Sanfotsi or Sanfoqi or what the Arabs called Zabag or Zabag(Saba)[Kingdom of Sapa? or Rizal's Tawalisi] and Coedes speculated Srivijayan empire aka Zabag or Sanfotsi as centered in Palembang because of the Bukit inscription found near Palembang mentioned the word Vijaya meaning glorious. Zabag or Sanfotsi was a world of marvels to various adventurers as the Gold Isles with a maharaja who ruled among rajas, an entrepot, an epitome of wealth. And so the Portuguese at the turn of Western discovery of East Indies saw the Luzonians as more eminent and wealthy than the Chins(Chinese). According to Al Biruni, the residence of the Majaraja of Zabaj or Zabag was just east of Champa kingdom and not south where Palembang is, the supposed capital of the Srivijayan empire. Luzon is exactly east of Champa now Vietnam. http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/sanfotsizabag.htm Brunei is also "east" of the Champa kingdom. I don't see why the Laguna Copperplate Inscription must be held in high esteem. It just talks about the AFFAIRS of foreign Bruneian rulers. Since it was a ROYAL document, it is therefore logical that it would use Old Malay and Kawi script with Sanskrit terminologies. Most likely, these Bruneian rulers are descended from Indianized rulers as well, so they just brought the Indian influence to their new colonies in the Philippines. In fact, there are three other artifacts with undecipherable inscriptions: the Butuan silver strip (14th century), the Butuan ivory seal (10th century), and the Calatagan jar (15th century). So if one argues for the "MALAYAN/SRIVIJAYAN" colonization of the Philippines using the Laguna Copperplate Inscription, I might as well use the hundreds of Chinese artifacts and coins also dating back 10th century that are found throughout Philippine seas, especially in Luzon. Their numerical superiority versus Indo-Malayan artifacts of Hindu/Buddhist design shows that the Chinese did settle in Luzon, a fact now being acknowledged by many historians. Majapahit and Srivijayan COLONIZATION, if ever it did happen (which I doubt, anyway), did not leave significant traces that could document their supposed occupancy/colonization of the Philippines. Most Hindu and Buddhist artifacts found in the Philippines are singular, meaning, they were acquired most likely through trade rather than settlement of Indianized Malays. If one argues that the Philippines is a Malay country, given the facts above, then I might as well argue that the Philippines is a Chinese country. Obviously, NEITHER ONE IS CORRECT, since the Philippines is basically a country populated by Taiwanese Aboriginal descendants later ruled by Bruneian-Chinese hybrid rulers (not Javanese or Sumatran Srivijayans/Majapahits). Also, we can deduce that before the coming of the Bruneian-Chinese rulers, the locals had no singular authority - rather, they were governed by a group of elder people, which is compatible with Austronesian culture anyway. |
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ocrapdm Luzon as the Lesser Song Dynasty and related topics Jan 11 2012, 09:16 PM
moppom how is it that you have time to write this, but do... Jan 11 2012, 09:35 PM
ocrapdm QUOTE (moppom @ Jan 12 2012, 10:35 AM) ho... Jan 11 2012, 10:10 PM
moppom QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 11 2012, 11:10 PM) a... Jan 12 2012, 04:46 AM
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moppom QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 12 2012, 06:44 AM) a... Jan 12 2012, 11:39 AM
AnybodyKiller "The Laguna Copperplate inscription circa 10t... Jan 13 2012, 12:34 PM
moppom QUOTE (AnybodyKiller @ Jan 13 2012, 12:34... Jan 13 2012, 04:13 PM
Leox I know these aren't directed at me and this is... Jan 13 2012, 05:24 PM
ocrapdm QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 14 2012, 06:24 AM) I... Jan 13 2012, 08:31 PM

moppom QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 13 2012, 08:31 PM) Y... Jan 13 2012, 09:08 PM

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Leox QUOTE (moppom @ Jan 13 2012, 10:10 PM) Ju... Jan 13 2012, 10:40 PM


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Leox QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 14 2012, 03:25 AM) M... Jan 14 2012, 03:24 AM


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Leox QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 14 2012, 05:38 AM) O... Jan 14 2012, 05:44 AM


ocrapdm QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 14 2012, 06:44 PM) Fili... Jan 18 2012, 03:48 AM


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ocrapdm QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) I ag... Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM


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moppom QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 20 2012, 08:04 AM) Demo... Jan 20 2012, 05:03 PM


Leox QUOTE (moppom @ Jan 20 2012, 05:03 PM) To... Jan 20 2012, 05:53 PM


moppom QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 20 2012, 05:53 PM) Out ... Jan 20 2012, 07:54 PM

ocrapdm QUOTE (moppom @ Jan 14 2012, 10:10 AM) Ju... Jan 14 2012, 02:07 AM

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ocrapdm QUOTE (moppom @ Jan 14 2012, 05:30 PM) ht... Jan 14 2012, 04:46 AM

moppom QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 14 2012, 04:46 AM)
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jonathanrhino QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 13 2012, 05:24 PM) I kn... Jan 15 2012, 03:23 AM
moppom p.s
since when were nordic looking anglo america... Jan 14 2012, 05:06 AM
ocrapdm QUOTE (moppom @ Jan 14 2012, 06:06 PM) p.... Jan 14 2012, 05:23 AM
moppom QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 14 2012, 05:23 AM) L... Jan 14 2012, 11:22 AM
trismegistos QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 13 2012, 08:09 PM) W... Jan 14 2012, 10:43 AM
sahaliyan QUOTE (trismegistos @ Jan 14 2012, 11:43 ... Jan 14 2012, 11:05 PM
trismegistos QUOTE (sahaliyan @ Jan 14 2012, 11:05 PM)... Jan 15 2012, 03:21 AM
sahaliyan QUOTE (trismegistos @ Jan 15 2012, 04:21 ... Jan 15 2012, 07:32 AM
trismegistos QUOTE (sahaliyan @ Jan 15 2012, 07:32 AM)... Jan 15 2012, 07:35 PM
sahaliyan And you can see the anciet DNA of China
Y chromoso... Jan 15 2012, 07:40 AM
trismegistos I have rechecked the Karafet figures, rechecked wh... Jan 16 2012, 09:30 AM
sahaliyan QUOTE (trismegistos @ Jan 16 2012, 10:30 ... Jan 16 2012, 09:44 AM
trismegistos QUOTE (sahaliyan @ Jan 16 2012, 09:44 AM)... Jan 16 2012, 06:08 PM
sahaliyan QUOTE (trismegistos @ Jan 17 2012, 07:08 ... Jan 16 2012, 11:03 PM
AnybodyKiller Can I ask you guys a favor? Can you direct argumen... Jan 17 2012, 04:01 PM![]() ![]() |
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