Luzon as the Lesser Song Dynasty and related topics, Not for Sinophobes. Options

[ocrapdm]

The Luzon Empire (呂宋國)

Written History:
In 1279 AD, in the Naval Battle of Yamen (崖門戰役) at the Pearl River Delta (珠江), the final conflict between the Mongol Forces (元) and the Southern Sung Empire (南宋國) was fought. The Mongol forces managed to advance to the center of the Southern Sung fleet and attack the boat of the child emperor Songdi Bing (宋帝昺). Seeing no hope of breaking free, the Minister of the Left (重臣) Liu Xiufu (陸秀夫) decided to commit suicide with the boy emperor rather than be captured by the Mongols. He jumped into the sea with the boy emperor and many officials and concubines followed suit. A few days later, the tattered remains of the boy emperor was found floating in Shekou Bay(蛇口). This sealed the fate of the Southern Song Empire.

Purported Oral History:
Before the final sea battle at Yamen (崖門戰役), Minister of the Left Liu Xiufu (陸秀夫) disguised his own son to look like the boy emperor Songdi Bing (宋帝昺). When the Mongols finally managed to attack the center of the Southern Sung fleet, Liu Xiufu committed suicide with his own son disguised as the emperor. The finest and most loyal of the Southern Sung fleet under the command of Grand General Zhang Shijie (張世傑). managed to break off from the battle with the real emperor and escape across the sea. There they established the Lesser Song Empire (呂宋國) at its capital Tondo (東都).

Facts:
1. Even though the corpse of the last emperor of the Southern Song Empire was reportedly found, no graveyard was ever erected.
2. Chinese historians agree that the Southern Sung Fleet under the command of Grand General Zhang Shijie (張世傑) did survive the final Battle of Yamen (崖門戰役) and that they simply vanished from record.
3. Tondo (東都) was the capital of an empire recorded by the Ming Dynasty (大明國) as the Luzon Empire (呂宋國).
4. Luzon Empire (呂宋國) was conquered by the Spaniards in 1571 and the province of Pampanga was the first colonial province carved out of it. The whole northern island was named Luzon. Tondo (東都) still exist today as a mere suburb of Manila.

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"The Philippines then was made up of many little kingdoms with chieftains who were friendly or hostile to each other, but who recognized each other's independence. Trade and commerce was carried on among themselves and with foreigners. The Chinese, Japanese, Arabs, Siamese, Sumatrans and other neighboring traders had brought to the country their various customs and cultures, without attempting to bring the authority of their kings."


Certain tribes such as Tinggianes and Sambals have even the same hairstyles as the Chinese.

Even as Legaspi conquered the various kingdoms of Luzon, he noticed that there are already hundreds of thousands of Chinese concentrated in the central plains and western coasts of Luzon, either living in the city-states of the natives, OR LIVING IN THEIR OWN CITY-STATES. SO with regard to the last sentence, DO CHINESE have the right to the PHILIPPINES? THE ANSWER IS A RESOUNDING YES!

The Philippines belongs not only to the Taiwanese Aboriginal descendants or Malays but ALSO to the Chinese who settled here.

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Ming annals have reported kingdoms in Luzon and called their kings as "wang" / "ong" (in Hokkien). If not for their Chinese connection, they would be called and treated as "barbarian rulers".

The following selection talks about internal politics (and way of life including crimes) in Luzon and the large numbers and way of life of the Hokkien in Luzon. It also attests the closeness of Luzon to Zhangzhou (Fujian province).

The Ming Annals about Luzon in Chinese:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080618154044/...ztyz/ms323.html

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"Duck culture was also practiced by the natives, particularly those around Pateros and Taguig City. This resembled the Chinese methods of artificial incubation of eggs and the knowledge of every phase of a duck's life. This tradition is carried on until modern times."

"Some of them used compass similar to those used among maritime communities of Borneo and traders of China, although most had no need for such devices."

Even agricultural and farming methods in the Philippines were reportedly brought over from Mainland China, according to Prof. Arsenio Manuel and many archaeologists.

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The Haplotype O3 in many Filipinos (especially in Luzon) also attests to a migration from Mainland China.

The premier ruler of Luzon come from a long line of rulers (mixed Bruneian-Chinese) who settled in what is now Pampanga. They thus share bloodlinks with the present Brunei royalty, as well as with the royalties of Tang Dynasty and Song Dynasty of China. If you take a look at it, ALL the world's royalties are interrelated to one another, and this includes the original Chinese ruler of Luzon who intermarried with a Bruneian sultan and eventually gave rise to the Luzon Empire/Kingdom.

Kapampangans have oral traditions about the existence of a large "empire" that traded with other nations. Yes, this is the Lesser Song Dynasty of China, eventually localized into the Liu-sung-kuo, or Luzon Empire.

Manila north of Pasig River was still Kapampangan during the 1500s. Only around 1600s did the Tagalogs capitulated the Kapampangans and occupied Manila, Bulacan, Bataan, and Nueva Ecija. Otherwise, all these are Kapampangan territory. Kapampangans are largely descendants of AMI PEOPLE FROM TAIWAN, not Malay immigrants. On the other hand, Tagalogs and Visayans are partly Malays. Tagalogs were considered to be a Visayan people before (and up to now, pure linguists consider Tagalog to be a Visayan language). Tagalog region during the 1500s only consisted of Batangas up to the Pasig River in Manila, and a few plains in Laguna. Large swathes of Rizal and Quezon then were still largely Negrito/Proto-Ainuid/Australoid.

There were many city-states (city-kingdoms) in Luzon then. The city-states were not only made by natives - in fact, there were A LOT OF CITY-STATES FOUNDED BY JAPANESE, SIAMESE, and CHINESE MIGRANTS!

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So as you can see, the forced imposition of Malay ideals and supposed Malay connection to Luzon is stupid. Luzon is mostly Taiwanese Aboriginal with Chinese and of course, the usual Australoid suspects again. And the haplotypes attests to this.

The reason Luzon natives don't look Chinese for obvious reasons is that Luzonians, like other Filipino peoples, have heavy Australoid admixtures (6-35%, depending on the source), but still, that does not justify the willful erasure of the Chinese origins of the Luzon empire or the Chinese connection of Luzon's peoples.

This post has been edited by ocrapdm: Jan 11 2012, 09:17 PM

[trismegistos]

I have rechecked the Karafet figures, rechecked what I've earlier posted and I'm right all along even before without at hand the exact figures. O2 and O3, collectively, are definitely the majority amongst the Indonesians. O-M95* alone account to more than half. And thus the conclusion of Karafet, that majority of Austronesians in Indonesia as Paleolithic. And O1 compared to the collective numbers of O2 and O3 together is fewer relatively speaking. But O1 on its own is still substantial accounting to more than a quarter in Western Indonesia(Austronesian predominant) and you are definitely correct that it's more than what O3 has on its own(12%).

It is labeled simply as exactly P201 and not labeled as P201* corresponding to that exact O3a3, the older subclade and thus older phylogenetically to both subclades M134(CHINESE AND OTHER SINO-TIBETANS) and M7(INDONESIANS). Linguistically speaking both Indonesians and Chinese belong to the Sino-Austronesian superfamily which of course included Hmong-Mien, other Austro-Tai like Tai-Kradai, Austro-Asiatics and other AUSTRICS.

Yes, those statements are true for P201*, EMPHASIZED ON THE ASTERISK, which means at that particularly study was unclassified subclade of P201. Hence not M134 and M7.

Ok, listen carefully as I have carefully elaborated before.

What the Karafet study have shown an actual P201 WITHOUT THE ASTERISK. Hence the PHYLOGENETIC PARENT OF BOTH M134 AND M7.

What crap are you talk about?The O3s among the Indonesians are mostly M7 and P201*(maybe the subclade of it P164*),and they are not the so called OLDER PHYLOGENETICALLY as you falsely claimed,in fact just subclade of O3,and there are more O1 than O3 in Inbdonesia,there are O1 and O2 but no O3 in Madagascar

Amis are majority O1 not O3. As per the various studies done, MAJORITY OF Indonesians do have a lot of O2 and O3 but only a few have O1. That's why studies have presented that the Indonesians are much closer to the Tai people or generally speaking to people of INDOCHINA than they are to the Amis or the Taiwan aborigenes and so put an axe on the Taiwan origin of majority of Austronesians.

But whether Indonesians have fewer O1 or O3, that's not the point, where in fact, majority are O3's and O2's. The point of the crux is O1s, O2s and O3 subclades from Indonesians are definitely OLDER PHYLOGENETICALLY than those from China or even Taiwan. AND THUS POINTING THE SOUTHERN ORIGINS OF O HAPLOGROUP in general. Which is basically what the various studies presented by the likes of Chu et al and Su et al.

This post has been edited by trismegistos: Jan 16 2012, 09:49 AM

[sahaliyan]

I have rechecked the Karafet figures and I'm right all along even before without at hand the exact figures. O2 and O3, collectively, are definitely the majority amongst the Indonesians. O-M95* alone account to more than half. And thus the conclusion of Karafet, that majority of Austronesians in Indonesia as Paleolithic. And O1 compared to the collective numbers of O2 and O3 together is fewer relatively speaking. But O1 on its own is still substantial accounting to more than a quarter in Western Indonesia(Austronesian predominant).

Why grouped O2 and O3 as one?There is no reason to do so,and Karafet said in her paper
“The low frequency of O-M7 in western Indonesia (i.e., Bali, Java, and Borneo) and O-M134 in Polynesia most likely reflects recent connections with mainland China (see next section).”。
"Finally, Haplogroup O-M7 is a marker of recent Chinese Influence"。

This post has been edited by sahaliyan: Jan 16 2012, 09:45 AM

[trismegistos]

Why grouped O2 and O3 as one?There is no reason to do so,and Karafet said in her paper
“The low frequency of O-M7 in western Indonesia (i.e., Bali, Java, and Borneo) and O-M134 in Polynesia most likely reflects recent connections with mainland China (see next section).”。
"Finally, Haplogroup O-M7 is a marker of recent Chinese Influence"。

Arbitrarily grouped them(those coming from mainland Sundaland) as to separate from the supposed Neolithic excursion coming Taiwan(Bellwood).

This post has been edited by trismegistos: Jan 16 2012, 06:26 PM