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Luzon as the Lesser Song Dynasty and related topics, Not for Sinophobes.
AnybodyKiller
post Jan 17 2012, 04:01 PM
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Can I ask you guys a favor? Can you direct arguments to the debate of Southeast Asia as the birthplace of civilization/agriculture to the thread I made on it? I'm trying to compile the information there. Thanks!
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ocrapdm
post Jan 18 2012, 03:48 AM
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QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 14 2012, 06:44 PM) *
Filipino citizens have a right to the Philippines that includes Fil-Chinese yes, but the Abu Sayaff are also Philippine citizens they don't get to keep Mindanao and break away, because no citizen has a right to break laws.

Regarding Singapore yes technically they didn't have that right, if they forced independence that's effectively a revolution like America declaring independence from Britain. They didn't have the rights they wanted so they fought the system and won, it may have been for the best but that's still a rebellion.

Also if you go by this standard then you should support the independence of Taiwan, because clearly they felt the CCP didn't protect their democratic rights which is of course true since China isn't democratic. If every unhappy minority claimed a parcel of land and broke away from their nation it would be chaos.

You can expect most governments to take action, and that's not going to end well for our minority, besides we're doing pretty well for ourselves in the Philippines, there's no reason to incite a fruitless conflict.

The Taiwanese were Chinese too, Taiwan is a part of their history so by your standard they didn't steal it either, yet I doubt China would see things the same way.


Of course, no citizens have the right to break laws. But if you feel that you are a nation-group that should not be bound to the laws of the land made by the majority (who are ethnically different from you and may have different customs and traditions), then that's a different matter. For the Bangsamoro for example, their actions (e.g., hostaging, killing, raping) are wrong, but their ideology and aim is justifiable in their own point of view.

It may be a rebellion in the EYES of the Malays (well, actually, the Malays themselves forced the Chinese to declare Spore as independent), but it certainly did MUCH GOOD for the Chinese of the Malay Peninsula. They now HAVE their OWN government in which THEY have the say and THEY control. The MALAYS did NOTHING GOOD in Singapore, so what's the use of Singapore sticking with Malaysia?

I'm talking about minorities who are not part of the majority AND ARE SHORTCHANGED: Chinese in Malaya, for example, who made Singapore. Taiwan on the other hand, is of the same ethnic group as the other Han Chinese in Mainland and are not all shortchanged when it comes to democracy - because the PRC actually offers them a status similar to Hong Kong where they get to control their own affairs and remain democratic, but they refuse.

Doing pretty well in what? Economy? Yes, but what is doing good in economy if your children get kidnapped all of the time or your relative gets killed because of a robbery? It would not be a fruitless conflict. It would be the dawn of an era of a shortchanged ethnic minority who are well-off and well-educated.

Of course all these would NOT be necessary if the government really showed goodwill in extending their hand toward the Chinese-Filipinos, such as by reserving ONE seat in the Senate to represent the Chinese-Filipino group (they should also do the same to the Bangsamoro and Igorots) ,declaration of Chinese as a constitutional language (as what Spanish and Arabic are now), and beefing up the security of Chinese-Filipinos against almost daily crimes, however minor these are.


QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 14 2012, 06:44 PM) *
You support their rebel movement as justified?


Like I said above, if they are SHORTCHANGED, then why not.

Look at underdeveloped Mindanao versus overdeveloped environs of Central Luzon. Hmmmm. Now you still wonder why the Moros there are fuming?!?!?!

How about the profiling of Moros as bad people by the general public?

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 14 2012, 06:44 PM) *
Well that's somewhat speculation, there's no question it was botched and our government should have apologized for that incident, but we can't really say what would happen if it were an American tour bus, I'm pretty sure our government would have botched it either way.


Uh no. I'm sure they would've killed the hostage taker if the bus was fullof American tourists. Obama would've instructed them to do so. embarassedlaugh.gif
Filipinos' superior view of Americans would compel them to protect their white gods.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 14 2012, 06:44 PM) *
Actually no they have no obligation to be extra keen with us, government protection shouldn't favor specific classes. It would of course be more beneficial for the economy to protect business owners but constitutionally we deserve no more than everyone else, and as far the the justice system goes in the Philippines we're ALL screwed except for those friends with select politicians.


Oh, but government's protection falls short of protecting its citizens, especially those of Chinese heritage.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 14 2012, 06:44 PM) *
Oh there's nothing wrong with warming up to China and appreciating ones cultural heritage, but if hypothetically if there was conflict between China and the Philippines and the Fil-Chinese community whom are Filipino citizens just sat it out, you should be able to understand why that might rub Filipinos the wrong way. We're hand in hand with them until we're forced to choose then we stay neutral, gives them the impression that they can't always count on us as Filipino citizens for the Philippines. I wish China would allow dual citizenships so that we would have a valid reason to stay neutral in such matters.


Actually, in any conflict between China and the Philippines, you should SIDE with the CORRECT COUNTRY, and now just stay neutral.

For example, in the Spratlys conflict, China has occupied the islands since 110 AD and here comes newcomer Philippines, toting its flag over one of the islands on 1956 AD. Of course, China has the most correct view. Even American authors who analyzed the problem were in a way forced to admit that really, China is the only country who have the rights to own the Spratlys (Nanshas).

You yourself are already a de facto dual citizen, as are all Chinese-Filipinos. As I've said, all Chinese-Filipinos are technically Republic of China citizens and are entitled to a R.O.C. passport and residency rights should they choose to. (Right to Return Law)

Also, as a sidenote, Philippine citizens (like Latin Americans) need only two years of residency in Spain to gain Spanish-European citizenship. All other nationals need five years. This is on the premise that "all Filipinos are descendants of Spaniards and are blood brothers to the Spanish" (Right to Return Law).

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 14 2012, 06:44 PM) *
That's only because Taiwan is trying to goad more chinese citizens over from China to join them.

the PRC sees it differently

Article 9: Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalized as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.


Besides the influential Fil-Chinese community of the Philippines bonding with Taiwan might add further tensions with China, and we all know the economic consequences of such a move.


Legally, that does NOT apply to most Chinese-Filipinos. Most were natural-born Philippine nationals are did not choose it out of their own free will. Hahaha. LOL.

Actually, the Chinese-Filipino community has traditionally always sided with the Kuomintang / Republic of China, since Taiwan people are also largely Hokkienese.

Most of the Chinese textbooks we use in Chinese schools are sponsored and published by the Overseas Compatriot Affairs Commission (OCAC) of the Ministry of Education of Republic of China (Taiwan) and printed in Taiwan (R.O.C.). It's only recently that many Chinese schools started using textbooks from China Mainland / Singapore to include Pinyin and Simplified Chinese. But before 2006, most textbooks were from Taiwan.


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Leox
post Jan 18 2012, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 18 2012, 04:48 AM) *
Of course, no citizens have the right to break laws. But if you feel that you are a nation-group that should not be bound to the laws of the land made by the majority (who are ethnically different from you and may have different customs and traditions), then that's a different matter. For the Bangsamoro for example, their actions (e.g., hostaging, killing, raping) are wrong, but their ideology and aim is justifiable in their own point of view.

I agree "in their point of view" however laws just don't change to cater to individual perspectives unless its done properly through reforms and the government still has the authority to put down rebellions to restore order.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 18 2012, 04:48 AM) *
Doing pretty well in what? Economy? Yes, but what is doing good in economy if your children get kidnapped all of the time or your relative gets killed because of a robbery? It would not be a fruitless conflict. It would be the dawn of an era of a shortchanged ethnic minority who are well-off and well-educated.

Again you make it as if we're the only ones suffering I'm starting to wonder if you even live here anymore. Granted usually the wealthy Fil-Chi get targeted by kidnappers but compared to everyone else we're not as often the target of street shootings, muggings, rape or other more common crimes that are even more rampant. We're not the only abused minority, if anything we are among the much larger abused majority us Fil-Chi along with a most of the Filipinos, the only ones really protected are the "special" minority friends and relatives of the corrupt and influential.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 18 2012, 04:48 AM) *
Of course all these would NOT be necessary if the government really showed goodwill in extending their hand toward the Chinese-Filipinos, such as by reserving ONE seat in the Senate to represent the Chinese-Filipino group (they should also do the same to the Bangsamoro and Igorots) ,declaration of Chinese as a constitutional language (as what Spanish and Arabic are now).

We're all supposed to be represented as Filipino citizens not segregated into groups, also you previously asked me to confirm that even among Fil-Chi there is difficulty with the Chinese language which I did confirm because it is true, so how can you now expect it to be declared a constitutional language when even the minority that speaks it can barely read and write it, of course that doesn't make sense. Here's the language most of us are fluent in English.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 18 2012, 04:48 AM) *
Look at underdeveloped Mindanao versus overdeveloped environs of Central Luzon. Hmmmm. Now you still wonder why the Moros there are fuming?!?!?!

They can fume, they can leave, they can seek reforms and rally but once they pick up a gun they're fair game to be shot. Only idiots think they can get more development by turning the area into a warzone, even us Fil-Chi don't even want to do business in Mindanao anymore because if it. I personally know of someone who just pulled out of there late last year because of the violence, they'll be setting up shop here in Luzon, no surprise why its more developed here.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 18 2012, 04:48 AM) *
Oh, but government's protection falls short of protecting its citizens, especially those of Chinese heritage.

Our government fails in protecting ALL of its citizens regardless of ethnicity and yet you focus excessively on the Fil-Chi as victims this is where your racial bias becomes evident.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 18 2012, 04:48 AM) *
Actually, in any conflict between China and the Philippines, you should SIDE with the CORRECT COUNTRY, and now just stay neutral.

For example, in the Spratlys conflict, China has occupied the islands since 110 AD and here comes newcomer Philippines, toting its flag over one of the islands on 1956 AD. Of course, China has the most correct view. Even American authors who analyzed the problem were in a way forced to admit that really, China is the only country who have the rights to own the Spratlys (Nanshas).

Ancient maps and long gone historic people called dibs? Oh please, but I believe we have already discussed this on the other thread, its off topic here we can continue this point back there if you want.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 18 2012, 04:48 AM) *
You yourself are already a de facto dual citizen, as are all Chinese-Filipinos. As I've said, all Chinese-Filipinos are technically Republic of China citizens and are entitled to a R.O.C. passport and residency rights should they choose to. (Right to Return Law)

Also, as a sidenote, Philippine citizens (like Latin Americans) need only two years of residency in Spain to gain Spanish-European citizenship. All other nationals need five years. This is on the premise that "all Filipinos are descendants of Spaniards and are blood brothers to the Spanish" (Right to Return Law).

Chinese citizenship ROC is not recognized by mainland China, and most UN nations support the one China policy. Also Taiwan citizenship is misleading, we may be able to get a passport but we can't vote on just that, so we aren't really represented in their parliament as you had previously claimed. In fact most of what you post regarding representation seems to be in the context of race rather than governance.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 18 2012, 04:48 AM) *
Legally, that does NOT apply to most Chinese-Filipinos. Most were natural-born Philippine nationals are did not choose it out of their own free will. Hahaha. LOL.

So I take it you either don't like being a Philippine citizen or had already opted to change your citizenship by now?

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 18 2012, 04:48 AM) *
Actually, the Chinese-Filipino community has traditionally always sided with the Kuomintang / Republic of China, since Taiwan people are also largely Hokkienese.

Actually I still live here around the Hokkienese and most of the people I know support the one China policy and the reunification of Taiwan with China, I also know for a fact that a lot of the Fil-Chi community invest a lot in mainland China, others even supporting some schools over there with contributions.

This post has been edited by Leox: Jan 19 2012, 04:14 AM
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ocrapdm
post Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) *
I agree "in their point of view" however laws just don't change to cater to individual perspectives unless its done properly through reforms and the government still has the authority to put down rebellions to restore order.


Yep, governments have the authority to put down rebellions - however, certain sectors of the society, especially the underrepresented peoples, also have the right to complain and voice out the issues affecting their community, and to declare sovereignty or openly rebel if the current government does not work out solutions.

After all, democracy is about the voice of the people.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) *
Again you make it as if we're the only ones suffering I'm starting to wonder if you even live here anymore. Granted usually the wealthy Fil-Chi get targeted by kidnappers but compared to everyone else we're not as often the target of street shootings, muggings, rape or other more common crimes that are even more rampant. We're not the only abused minority, if anything we are among the much larger abused majority us Fil-Chi along with a most of the Filipinos, the only ones really protected are the "special" minority friends and relatives of the corrupt and influential.


But then you have to admit, the ratio of crimes affecting Fil-Chi are way larger than the ratio of crimes affecting the rest of the Philippine society. Also, we haven't even considered the minor, albeit numerous offenses such as slandering the Chinoy community in the Internet.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) *
We're all supposed to be represented as Filipino citizens not segregated into groups, also you previously asked me to confirm that even among Fil-Chi there is difficulty with the Chinese language which I did confirm because it is true, so how can you now expect it to be declared a constitutional language when even the minority that speaks it can barely read and write it, of course that doesn't make sense. Here's the language most of us are fluent in English.


Well, the Spanish language is declared a constitutional language out of respect for the Spanish community in the Philippines. Arabic language likewise was made constitutional language for the Muslim community. If that is so, and everyone speaks Tagalog, then you mean, remove Spanish and Arabic and including English?

Of course not. Chinese should be made Constitutional Language to recognize the Chinese community being distinct from the rest of Philippine society, as they did for the Spanish Mestizos and the Muslims.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) *
They can fume, they can leave, they can seek reforms and rally but once they pick up a gun they're fair game to be shot. Only idiots think they can get more development by turning the area into a warzone, even us Fil-Chi don't even want to do business in Mindanao anymore because if it. I personally know of someone who just pulled out of there late last year because of the violence, they'll be setting up shop here in Luzon, no surprise why its more developed here.


If you look at the history of Mindanao, you can't really blame them. The Catholic Filipinos sided with the Spaniards and literally abused the Muslim Filipinos by trampling on their sovereignties as independent sultanates, not giving them rights and representation in the government, etc. etc. That's why I said Muslims should be given at least one seat in recognition of their distinctiveness fromthe rest of the Philippine nation and to give them a voice.

Actually, there are a lot of Chinoys in Muslim Mindanao, especially in Zamboanga and Cotabato, where they also dominate the trade. The only area where Chinoys are afraid to settle in is Marawi.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) *
Our government fails in protecting ALL of its citizens regardless of ethnicity and yet you focus excessively on the Fil-Chi as victims this is where your racial bias becomes evident.


The ratio is higher on the side of the Chinoys, I tell you. XP
This doesn't even include YET the NUMEROUS insults, tirades, and bashing made by Malay Filipinos against the Chinese Filipinos online.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) *
Ancient maps and long gone historic people called dibs? Oh please, but I believe we have already discussed this on the other thread, its off topic here we can continue this point back there if you want.


Don't tell me you don't believe in ancient Ming Dynasty and Han Dynasty documents?!?! We all know that China was the inventor of paper and printing and for sure they would've kept documents. I already explained in another thread why the Philippines or any other country for that matter does not have any right whatsoever to the Nansha Islands, whether they use the Tomas Cloma or the UNCLOS Principle.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) *
Chinese citizenship ROC is not recognized by mainland China, and most UN nations support the one China policy. Also Taiwan citizenship is misleading, we may be able to get a passport but we can't vote on just that, so we aren't really represented in their parliament as you had previously claimed. In fact most of what you post regarding representation seems to be in the context of race rather than governance.


You can't vote, but you can opt to formally return and vote. Also, as an Overseas Chinese, you can join any political party and get voted on one of the eight seats reserved for Overseas Chinese - provided of course that upon winning, you renounce your original citizenship.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) *
So I take it you either don't like being a Philippine citizen or had already opted to change your citizenship by now?


No. Liking the Philippines is not tantamount to liking the Philippine government, or vice versa.
If a Chinese government ruled the Philippines since independence, I'm pretty sure the Phils would be as modern and progressive as Thailand or Malaysia. This is because of less regionalism, less nepotism, and a more authoritarian government. If you don't believe me, look at the most progressive nations of SEA: S'Pore, M'Sia, Thailand, and Brunei. All have >15% Chinese populations. The poor ones all have 1% Chinese populations or less.

QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 19 2012, 10:50 AM) *
Actually I still live here around the Hokkienese and most of the people I know support the one China policy and the reunification of Taiwan with China, I also know for a fact that a lot of the Fil-Chi community invest a lot in mainland China, others even supporting some schools over there with contributions.


True, but for the most part, at least during the 1960s-1980s, most supported the One China policy under the Republic of China - Taiwan, because the Taiwanese government was friendly to the Chinese-Filipinos and open to dual citizenship. On the other hand, PRC openly renounced ALL rights they have to ALL Overseas Chinese outside of China in the Bandung Conference. That pissed OCs off and led them to join forces with the Kuomintang instead.

Taiwan (Republic of China), for instance, openly declared economic war and warned Indonesia during the race riots of 1998 when a lot of Chinese got killed/raped there. This is despite the fact that virtually all of those Chinese there are already Indonesian nationals. The Taiwan/R.O.C. move was made in consideration of the DE FACTO CHINESE NATIONALITY (via R.O.C.) of all the Indonesian-Chinese.

Economic investment and support for local schools in the Mainland does not automatically mean that the Chi-Fils support P.R.C., although many now do. For our clan, for example, we sent a lot of money to build a school in our ancestral hometown in Chin-kang (now Jinjiang in Quanzhou, Fujian), but our loyalties were traditionally toward the Republic of China, for the reason being that R.O.C. maintained the Chinese nationalities of all Overseas Chinese and that during departure from China, the R.O.C. in fact was still the governing power.

During the P.R.C. takeover (1949), emigration was put to a halt, Some of my grandparents were one of those who were able to ride the last boats (during the last hours of R.O.C./Kuomintang sovereignty in Mainland China) to the Philippines. No wonder most Chi-Fils during the 50s-80s support R.O.C.

So the bottom-line is, all Chinese-Filipinos are DE FACTO Philippine and Chinese (R.O.C.) nationals. embarassedlaugh.gif

Therefore, it is not a crime to stay neutral on things that affect both countries (e.g., Spratlys claim) - although historically speaking, China has the right to the Spratlys/Nanshas. It's just most Chinoys are afraid to acknowledge it for fear of reprisal from the locals.

This post has been edited by ocrapdm: Jan 19 2012, 09:09 PM
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Leox
post Jan 20 2012, 08:04 AM
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QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM) *
Yep, governments have the authority to put down rebellions - however, certain sectors of the society, especially the underrepresented peoples, also have the right to complain and voice out the issues affecting their community, and to declare sovereignty or openly rebel if the current government does not work out solutions.

After all, democracy is about the voice of the people.

Democracy is majority rule, we vote for one president and we accept the ruling of the majority, the candidates who secure less votes don't get to declare their respective sovereign communities where their voters can claim as their own land. Not every group gets their way, no government does that, it may as well be anarchy.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM) *
But then you have to admit, the ratio of crimes affecting Fil-Chi are way larger than the ratio of crimes affecting the rest of the Philippine society.

I have heard people say that but have honestly never seen the actual statistic.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM) *
Also, we haven't even considered the minor, albeit numerous offenses such as slandering the Chinoy community in the Internet.

Mostly they insult Chinese in general, but sometimes it includes Chinoys because some don't bother to mark the difference. That is also why I'm against a lot of the things you post because it fans the flames of the internet, your not going to get people to stop hating on us by promoting racial superiority it just pisses them off more.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM) *
Well, the Spanish language is declared a constitutional language out of respect for the Spanish community in the Philippines. Arabic language likewise was made constitutional language for the Muslim community. If that is so, and everyone speaks Tagalog, then you mean, remove Spanish and Arabic and including English?

Of course not. Chinese should be made Constitutional Language to recognize the Chinese community being distinct from the rest of Philippine society, as they did for the Spanish Mestizos and the Muslims.

I believe most of Mindanao is Muslim, but if it makes you feel better they made Chinese new year a holiday this year out of respect for the Fil-Chi community so there's that.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM) *
If you look at the history of Mindanao, you can't really blame them. The Catholic Filipinos sided with the Spaniards and literally abused the Muslim Filipinos by trampling on their sovereignties as independent sultanates, not giving them rights and representation in the government, etc. etc. That's why I said Muslims should be given at least one seat in recognition of their distinctiveness fromthe rest of the Philippine nation and to give them a voice.

Yeah same can be said for the Chinese, they didn't have a whole lot of rights back in the Spaniard Era, the Chinese were even massacred a couple of times, but you don't see us throwing a hissy fit war over it today, reforms were made and we worked with it.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM) *
Don't tell me you don't believe in ancient Ming Dynasty and Han Dynasty documents?!?! We all know that China was the inventor of paper and printing and for sure they would've kept documents. I already explained in another thread why the Philippines or any other country for that matter does not have any right whatsoever to the Nansha Islands, whether they use the Tomas Cloma or the UNCLOS Principle.

If you recall we actually left our discussion on that thread hanging, you never did respond to my post #19 directed at you, I believe you got "distracted" by someone spamming in huge letters and you both went a little nuts with the all caps and then the mods cleaned up that mess. :P

If you want, respond to my post #19 on that thread and we can pick it up where we left off.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM) *
No. Liking the Philippines is not tantamount to liking the Philippine government, or vice versa.
If a Chinese government ruled the Philippines since independence, I'm pretty sure the Phils would be as modern and progressive as Thailand or Malaysia. This is because of less regionalism, less nepotism, and a more authoritarian government. If you don't believe me, look at the most progressive nations of SEA: S'Pore, M'Sia, Thailand, and Brunei. All have >15% Chinese populations. The poor ones all have 1% Chinese populations or less.

First off that's racist so please stop that it makes us look bad, South Korea and Japan are doing pretty well and I'm pretty sure its not just because of the ethnic Chinese. Secondly how would there be less nepotism? Nepotism is practically ingrained in our culture.

QUOTE (ocrapdm @ Jan 19 2012, 09:05 PM) *
So the bottom-line is, all Chinese-Filipinos are DE FACTO Philippine and Chinese (R.O.C.) nationals. embarassedlaugh.gif

Therefore, it is not a crime to stay neutral on things that affect both countries (e.g., Spratlys claim) - although historically speaking, China has the right to the Spratlys/Nanshas. It's just most Chinoys are afraid to acknowledge it for fear of reprisal from the locals.

Well I looked it up a bit just out of curiosity and even under the assumption that we were dual citizens I have not come across any law that states we can actually be neutral, in fact the only thing I found in regards to dual citizens is that if there were a conflict between both nations by staying neutral you actually betray your obligations to serve both countries and can be held accountable by both countries later.

And if you think about it how can you expect Filipinos or even China-Chinese who bled in a conflict to regard us neutrals with the same sense of camaraderie as those whom actually sided with them. If you want to be regarded as a true Filipino equal of you have to show them that your just like them not differentiate yourself, which is what you seem to be intent on doing.

Which is why I believe your posts emphasizing ethnic Chinese as historically better is only counter productive to the Fil-Chi community trying to be accepted. Treasure your heritage don't flaunt it, practice your culture but don't go around bragging about how BETTER you think it is, of course people will start to dislike you.

This post has been edited by Leox: Jan 20 2012, 08:19 AM
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moppom
post Jan 20 2012, 05:03 PM
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QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 20 2012, 08:04 AM) *
Democracy is majority rule, we vote for one president and we accept the ruling of the majority, the candidates who secure less votes don't get to declare their respective sovereign communities where their voters can claim as their own land. Not every group gets their way, no government does that, it may as well be anarchy.


I have heard people say that but have honestly never seen the actual statistic.


Mostly they insult Chinese in general, but sometimes it includes Chinoys because some don't bother to mark the difference. That is also why I'm against a lot of the things you post because it fans the flames of the internet, your not going to get people to stop hating on us by promoting racial superiority it just pisses them off more.


I believe most of Mindanao is Muslim, but if it makes you feel better they made Chinese new year a holiday this year out of respect for the Fil-Chi community so there's that.


Yeah same can be said for the Chinese, they didn't have a whole lot of rights back in the Spaniard Era, the Chinese were even massacred a couple of times, but you don't see us throwing a hissy fit war over it today, reforms were made and we worked with it.


If you recall we actually left our discussion on that thread hanging, you never did respond to my post #19 directed at you, I believe you got "distracted" by someone spamming in huge letters and you both went a little nuts with the all caps and then the mods cleaned up that mess. :P

If you want, respond to my post #19 on that thread and we can pick it up where we left off.


First off that's racist so please stop that it makes us look bad, South Korea and Japan are doing pretty well and I'm pretty sure its not just because of the ethnic Chinese. Secondly how would there be less nepotism? Nepotism is practically ingrained in our culture.


Well I looked it up a bit just out of curiosity and even under the assumption that we were dual citizens I have not come across any law that states we can actually be neutral, in fact the only thing I found in regards to dual citizens is that if there were a conflict between both nations by staying neutral you actually betray your obligations to serve both countries and can be held accountable by both countries later.

And if you think about it how can you expect Filipinos or even China-Chinese who bled in a conflict to regard us neutrals with the same sense of camaraderie as those whom actually sided with them. If you want to be regarded as a true Filipino equal of you have to show them that your just like them not differentiate yourself, which is what you seem to be intent on doing.

Which is why I believe your posts emphasizing ethnic Chinese as historically better is only counter productive to the Fil-Chi community trying to be accepted. Treasure your heritage don't flaunt it, practice your culture but don't go around bragging about how BETTER you think it is, of course people will start to dislike you.




The sad part is that ocrap isnt even chinese - he is a blatant flip flop and liar


His accounts of going to chinese school are full of holes - he cant even get the amount of time he spent there right

Most importantly - he BLATANTLY stated 3 years ago,"No, I'm not Chinoy."


His Chinese school was firstly chinese and filipinos, then he backtracked that statement to include a healthy mix of spanish mestizos and koreans, which frankly i find unlikely.



To be honest, anything he says must be taken with a grain of salt, especially after the "Yo habla espanol" incident.


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post Jan 20 2012, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (moppom @ Jan 20 2012, 05:03 PM) *
To be honest, anything he says must be taken with a grain of salt, especially after the "Yo habla espanol" incident.

Out of curiosity what is that? lol
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moppom
post Jan 20 2012, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (Leox @ Jan 20 2012, 05:53 PM) *
Out of curiosity what is that? lol


Well for the long story, see "Amis People" thread which is probably a few pages back by now.


In summary:

Just as he pretends to be 90% chinese, ocrap also pretends to be 10% spanish.


Upon reading his posts,i spotted yet another flip flop - namely, how he said he did not know spanish, yet claimed 1 week later he was fluent.

In an effort to prove that he was indeed fluent, he typed out [i.e google translated] a spanish sentence full of irregularities, but none so glaring as the phrase, "Yo habla espanol."

I only speak basic spanish, but "Yo habla espanol" is tantamount to "I speaks English."

I called immediate BS on this, seeing as to how the entire sentence was awkwardly constructed.


In typical fashion, ocrap proceeded to defend his statement as actually being 100% correct spanish [you can see for yourself in the Amis People thread that he is actually defending his phrase as correct]. However, several months later, he now defends his phrase as being a mere typo.

Not only is this a blatant flip-flop - but its actually pure BS - the correct translation is "Yo hablo espanol." As you can see, his google translated sentence didnt give him the proper conjugation - but if it really was a typo - how did he mix up "o" and "a" as they are nowhere near each other on the keyboard.



And believe me, this truly is just the tip of the iceberg.
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