Relation between Siam and Chenla and further to Angkor, My reponse Options

[KhmerBoi]

There are no records of Java ever attacking Cambodia at all. The belief that Java had taken control of Cambodia comes from the Jayavarman II inscription. Which I think is definitely a miss translation. I believe it is Lava and not Java. Lava is the other area/people that could possibly be Chenla. As we can tell from the history. Chenla came south and invaded the area and became the rulers. Jayavarman II could have performed the ritual as defiance to the rule of Lava.

Lava is the area or source of scholarship that princes and future kings were sent to be educated. Through out the Angkorian kings lines, we see that quite a few of them come from Lava. There is a much higher frequency in the connection between Angkor and Lava then there is Angkor with Java.

Perhaps Jayavarman II was just a prince that wanted to stamp his own identity and decide to go conquer the people of the south. When he tried to attack the northern territories he was beaten back. TBH Jayavarman II didn't actually get that far in his conquests but he did begin something important. The independence of the southern kingdom from Chenla control.

Anyone actually have any links between Java and pre Angkor? Ive read in many places that there were attacks by the Javanese pirates in the 8th century but have not been able to track down the source material for this. Makes me believe it is just a story created to link Jayavarman II with Java and that him coming from Java to be legitimate.

You talk to me? I think u r confusing!

[SabaiSabai]

You talk to me? I think u r confusing!

Can you a find a link between jayavarman II and java? Lol you don't even have any evidence to show ANY angkorian king was Khmer lol

[KhmerBoi]

Can you a find a link between jayavarman II and java? Lol you don't even have any evidence to show ANY angkorian king was Khmer lol

I think because you just too much hated Khmer that why u can't think of the evidence. But I can give you clue that he was mix of Java (huntien) father + Khmer month (lievyee) = sorivong, Indian father (kaundinya)+ Khmer mother (soma or neang nak) = somvong, king of Angkor are somvong + sorivong = Khmer king , you know why? Because they all have their Khmer mother's blood base and they all have to married to the Khmer princes if they wanna be a king. That is the law and incase if king don't have any crown prince then someone from the queen bloodline will suggested by Brahmanh.
And why we say it was Khmer not any other Austroasiatic because of the Khmer inscription... And Khmer people who still existed with their strong believe in their indentety, and we you learn about us! You will found clue back to the empire..

One really small example: Khmer people would say "Arch Kor Me" meaning $hit of a cow's mother for something that it was believe that it usefull then is not!

So you will get stuck how it make sence but if you look at the bas-relief you will found Brahmanh getting the cow's $hit which just deliver a babe in a Hindu temple.. And that would lead the scholars learn more about it.

And that why we say we are the Master! ^^

[SabaiSabai]

I think because you just too much hated Khmer that why u can't think of the evidence. But I can give you clue that he was mix of Java (huntien) father + Khmer month (lievyee) = sorivong, Indian father (kaundinya)+ Khmer mother (soma or neang nak) = somvong, king of Angkor are somvong + sorivong = Khmer king , you know why? Because they all have their Khmer mother's blood base and they all have to married to the Khmer princes if they wanna be a king. That is the law and incase if king don't have any crown prince then someone from the queen bloodline will suggested by Brahmanh.
And why we say it was Khmer not any other Austroasiatic because of the Khmer inscription... And Khmer people who still existed with their strong believe in their indentety, and we you learn about us! You will found clue back to the empire..

One really small example: Khmer people would say "Arch Kor Me" meaning $hit of a cow's mother for something that it was believe that it usefull then is not!

So you will get stuck how it make sence but if you look at the bas-relief you will found Brahmanh getting the cow's $hit which just deliver a babe in a Hindu temple.. And that would lead the scholars learn more about it.

And that why we say we are the Master! ^^

Lol idiot still don't get it. Adopted culture doesn't mean it's your created culture lol your whole history is created to fit the bad reliefs. Is it a surprise it has it in there? Lol everything you have claimed so far we have proved you got it from siam. Your history and culture is just borrowed history and culture.

Khmers are masters of copy and false claims lol

[KhmerBoi]

Lol idiot still don't get it. Adopted culture doesn't mean it's your created culture lol your whole history is created to fit the bad reliefs. Is it a surprise it has it in there? Lol everything you have claimed so far we have proved you got it from siam. Your history and culture is just borrowed history and culture.

Khmers are masters of copy and false claims lol

Lolzzz why don't u use ur brain a little bit.. Vietnamese known khmer not Khorm, Roman known Khmer not Khorm, the Cham known Khmer not Khorm i am not mention the word kambuja. Ur culture keep influence from us until 15th that the fact and we have proved it was not dying in the13th century. But unt
il 17th century Khmer was influence from Siem was in 17 century since the lost of longvek. Which the vietnamese also taking part of Khmer business.. And it is because of our Khmer king during that period. U should learn to think a little bit of optimistic... And it can make you happy and satisfy of what you have.. We Khmer recognize the difference of you culture and tradition... But because of you act of your government which provoke us to call you thief again!

This post has been edited by KhmerBoi: Jan 14 2012, 09:34 PM

[SabaiSabai]

Lolzzz why don't u use ur brain a little bit.. Vietnamese known khmer not Khorm, Roman known Khmer not Khorm, the Cham known Khmer not Khorm i am not mention the word kambuja. Ur culture keep influence from us until 15th that the fact and we have proved it was not dying in the13th century. But unt
il 17th century Khmer was influence from Siem was in 17 century since the lost of longvek. Which the vietnamese also taking part of Khmer business.. And it is because of our Khmer king during that period. U should learn to think a little bit of optimistic... And it can make you happy and satisfy of what you have.. We Khmer recognize the difference of you culture and tradition... But because of you act of your government which provoke us to call you thief again!

Vietnamese known khmer and not Khom. because Khmer are not Khom
Romans known khmer and not Khom. Because Khmer are not Khom
Cham known khmer and not Khom. Because Khmer are not Khom

How can simple logic like this not be understood? Only Khmers think Khom are Khmer.

Khom is a name used to decribe southerners by the Tai kingdoms of northern Thailand. Who was south of the Tai kingdoms? Mon kingdoms. There was no mass migration of Khmer people from the lower mekong delta. Your people never populated central Thailand. How can you be Khom? how.. your people didnt even populated central and northern Isan. How are you even Chenla?

Your people have adopted the culture and language from these places. We know from evidence that your people was moved into Chenla territory by Jayavarman II. How do we know you even speak the same language you do now as you did back then? The language appeared from the 7th century. Your people was moved to the Battambang area in the 9th century. It has been almost 1000 years for your people to adapt to the language. Funan never had this language. Your people were in the vacinity of Funan, so why is there no evidence of this language from Funan?

This is shameless culture theft right here.

Khmer are not Khom. Khmers have not been influencing anyone. Your people are the peasants and servants of your Khom (Mon) masters.

Let me paint a picture for you so that you can understand. It is like one day Siem Reab broke away and became indipendent from Cambodia and suddenly claim that all Cambodia came from Siem Reab. And guess what, Angkor Wat is in Siem Reab so they have evidence to say it comes from there.

Get it?

[KhmerBoi]

Vietnamese known khmer and not Khom. because Khmer are not Khom
Romans known khmer and not Khom. Because Khmer are not Khom
Cham known khmer and not Khom. Because Khmer are not Khom

How can simple logic like this not be understood? Only Khmers think Khom are Khmer.

Khom is a name used to decribe southerners by the Tai kingdoms of northern Thailand. Who was south of the Tai kingdoms? Mon kingdoms. There was no mass migration of Khmer people from the lower mekong delta. Your people never populated central Thailand. How can you be Khom? how.. your people didnt even populated central and northern Isan. How are you even Chenla?

Your people have adopted the culture and language from these places. We know from evidence that your people was moved into Chenla territory by Jayavarman II. How do we know you even speak the same language you do now as you did back then? The language appeared from the 7th century. Your people was moved to the Battambang area in the 9th century. It has been almost 1000 years for your people to adapt to the language. Funan never had this language. Your people were in the vacinity of Funan, so why is there no evidence of this language from Funan?

This is shameless culture theft right here.

Khmer are not Khom. Khmers have not been influencing anyone. Your people are the peasants and servants of your Khom (Mon) masters.

Let me paint a picture for you so that you can understand. It is like one day Siem Reab broke away and became indipendent from Cambodia and suddenly claim that all Cambodia came from Siem Reab. And guess what, Angkor Wat is in Siem Reab so they have evidence to say it comes from there.

Get it?

I know you don't like to be call Khmer influence to everyone but you want other say Khorm influence anyone because Khorm is Siem right?? Lol

Anyways, Everyone don't know who is Khorm only you guy know that is not weir because that is from your fairy tale..

Vietnames, Roman, and Cham know that Khmer is the ruler!!!
and Cham know very well that Khmer have very sweet heart!!! (Navigating the Rift- Muslim-Buddhist Intermarriage in Cambodia).

And now what Siem like you crying for? You are not enough right?? look at your Muslim booming almost everyday!!! what a pity of Buddhist Thai over there... and Pls don't say because Cham and Khmer are the same people... it doesn't help you dear!!! ^^

Siem Reap broke away from Cambodia? what a joke?? and Do you know why most people in Battambong wear Tatoo? according to the interview it was said that it for protected from Chor Siem (Siem thief).. Do you knwo where King Ourng Dourng come from?? Battambong man...

According to the recently scholars have suggested that.. Khmer never abadone Angkor.. only King, some of officials, some ordinary people were leave to Toul Basan not all of them.. some of them still live and protected their ancestor heritage.. proof is the TaToach temple was build in 15th century... some other Buddhism temples and the Nirvanna Buddhism was cave on the Kulen Mauntain in the 15 century.. and the Return of King Orng Chan in the 16th century.. and He had finish caving some of the gallary in Angkor and he also leave the inscription which tell very clear that Khmer is always there!!!
http://www.khmerenaissance.info/heritage_h...enaissance.html

More then 36 scholars from all over the world have come to Cambodia and work together to learn about Khmer civilization.. you should trying to find their work... I give some clue to you here: go to the Center of Khmer Study

here is from Radio Free Asia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHookmKYkL8...feature=related for recently research. A lot of Evidence have been found which link the Khmer King as well as Khmer people back to the empire time!!! ^^ But it is just not existed in your nationalism brain!!

[LoveIsAllAround]

I know you don't like to be call Khmer influence to everyone but you want other say Khorm influence anyone because Khorm is Siem right?? Lol

Anyways, Everyone don't know who is Khorm only you guy know that is not weir because that is from your fairy tale..

It's right that Khmer are not Khom. LOL I don't know why you wanna be khom that bad. Sorry to say that Old Siamese never consider you Khmer as Khom. Never once! LOL They differentiate Khom and Khmer. Khom and Khmer never can be interchangeable. Why? Becos you Khmer are not Khom. If Khmer are the ruler of Angkor why there is NO 'Khmer' mentioned in Siamese's stone inscriptions? But there are many 'Khom' appeared in those stones instead. Is this surprised you that 'Khmer' is only seen once in Khom's stone inscriptions, and it's found in Thailand. LOL

Khom identity is not a fairly tale. It's real. It's historically recorded. It's same identiry like 'Chenla' or 'Funan' that were recorded by Old Chinese, or Syam/Lavo identity, recorded by Angkoreans in Angkor wall . You can't just have your normal cheap Khamen lips to say Khom is fairly tale.

This post has been edited by LoveIsAllAround: Jan 16 2012, 08:32 PM

[KhmerBoi]

It's right that Khmer are not Khom. LOL I don't know why you wanna be khom that bad. Sorry to say that Old Siamese never consider you Khmer as Khom. Never once! LOL They differentiate Khom and Khmer. Khom and Khmer never can be interchangeable. Why? Becos you Khmer are not Khom. If Khmer are the ruler of Angkor why there is NO 'Khmer' mentioned in Siamese's stone inscriptions? But there are many 'Khom' appeared in those stones instead. Is this surprised you that 'Khmer' is only seen once in Khom's stone inscriptions, and it's found in Thailand. LOL

Khom identity is not a fairly tale. It's real. It's historically recorded. It's same identiry like 'Chenla' or 'Funan' that were recorded by Old Chinese, or Syam/Lavo identity, recorded by Angkoreans in Angkor wall . You can't just have your normal cheap Khamen lips to say Khom is fairly tale.

lolzzz and it only existed in Thailand and well, that why your government can wast ur brain. Lol so Chinese record about Khorm too?? Lolzzz

[SabaiSabai]

lolzzz and it only existed in Thailand and well, that why your government can wast ur brain. Lol so Chinese record about Khorm too?? Lolzzz

Obviously not because it is a local term used by local people. Are you really that stupid to not understand? Do the Chinese even use the name Khmer? lol nope.

Only your people claim that Khom are Khmer. And this is against the people who actually use the word Khom lol This is just stupid, no if's or buts.

Khom is a word used by ancient Lanna people to refer to the people south of their location. Whether those people called themselves Khom or not does not matter. Its a name used by the Ancient Lanna people to refer to those people.

Oh and we know those people were not Khmers. There was no mass migration or colonisation of the central areas by Khmers. This is why there are no traces of Khmers at all to this day!

Your dreams of an empire is false. Your belief your people were all over SEA is false. Your people never ventured far from the mekong delta valley. Even then you were forced north by Jayavarman II.

Khom are the Mon of central and eastern Thailand. Dvaravati and Lavo are Khom. Who the hell is Khmer? Even the Ancient people never identified a group as Khmer. It is all your own imagination that every AA group is yours.

[KhmerBoi]

Obviously not because it is a local term used by local people. Are you really that stupid to not understand? Do the Chinese even use the name Khmer? lol nope.

Only your people claim that Khom are Khmer. And this is against the people who actually use the word Khom lol This is just stupid, no if's or buts.

Khom is a word used by ancient Lanna people to refer to the people south of their location. Whether those people called themselves Khom or not does not matter. Its a name used by the Ancient Lanna people to refer to those people.

Oh and we know those people were not Khmers. There was no mass migration or colonisation of the central areas by Khmers. This is why there are no traces of Khmers at all to this day!

Your dreams of an empire is false. Your belief your people were all over SEA is false. Your people never ventured far from the mekong delta valley. Even then you were forced north by Jayavarman II.

Khom are the Mon of central and eastern Thailand. Dvaravati and Lavo are Khom. Who the hell is Khmer? Even the Ancient people never identified a group as Khmer. It is all your own imagination that every AA group is yours.

Read this from Lanna History.
http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/foundin..._chiangmai.html
Don't you see that Mon and Khorm are not the same people? don't you see that they say Khorm Angkor?? Who live in Angkor?? who rule Angkor? Is Khmer!!!!

Here from the international scholar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXk9RD-xFNw...feature=related

See it Khmer!!! and it call Khmer Empire!!! Scholars have no doupt that Khmer are not the people of Angkor who created the Great Civilization!!! and Thai like you better call thief!! ^^

[LoveIsAllAround]

lolzzz and it only existed in Thailand and well, that why your government can wast ur brain. Lol so Chinese record about Khorm too?? Lolzzz

Chenla, Funan are existed in China and you idiot name your claimed land as Chenla, Funan. How retarded your logic. LOL

[KhmerBoi]

and for this link
http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/dinosau...ese-thai_7.html

It is clear that Khorm is the people of Angkor Empire.. They have mention about Mon and Khorm.. so if I am not mistaken
Khorm and Mon is known by only Thai
and Khmer and Mon is known internationally.

So of cause in this case Khorm=Khmer for this sence. because they share exactly the same story.

there is no Khorm have mention in Angkor but Khmer ethnic.. there is no no Khorm people existed in Cambodia or anywhere, but Khmer!!!
But I know Nationalism Thai will say Khorm is not Khmer!!!!!!
but Non-nationalism will say Khorm is Thai word to refer Ancient Khmer people. ^^

[LoveIsAllAround]

Read this from Lanna History.
http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/foundin..._chiangmai.html
Don't you see that Mon and Khorm are not the same people? don't you see that they say Khorm Angkor?? Who live in Angkor?? who rule Angkor? Is Khmer!!!!

Here from the international scholar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXk9RD-xFNw...feature=related

See it Khmer!!! and it call Khmer Empire!!! Scholars have no doupt that Khmer are not the people of Angkor who created the Great Civilization!!! and Thai like you better call thief!! ^^

LOL That's false translation. Never once in Thai version of Lanna chronicles mention 'KHMER' or 'Khom Angkor'.

Trust me, I read all of that in Thai. You can't rely on that wrong translation website again. I told you.

[SabaiSabai]

Read this from Lanna History.
http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/foundin..._chiangmai.html
Don't you see that Mon and Khorm are not the same people? don't you see that they say Khorm Angkor?? Who live in Angkor?? who rule Angkor? Is Khmer!!!!

Here from the international scholar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXk9RD-xFNw...feature=related

See it Khmer!!! and it call Khmer Empire!!! Scholars have no doupt that Khmer are not the people of Angkor who created the Great Civilization!!! and Thai like you better call thief!! ^^

Your a retard. Khmers have never been that far north.. NEVER. Your geographical location is in the lower mekong delta valley region.

Mon comes from the word Raman which comes from Ramanadesa. This is the western Mon.
The people of Suvarnabhaumi are the Khom. Get it? This is the eastern Mon. Or should we call them by their ethnic name? Syam. This make you understand better?

Perhaps the Khom were actually Lawa people. Nyah kur are considered descendants of Dvaravati and are still classed as Lawa. Perhaps Khom are actually Lawa.

No where is it recorded that they are Khmer. Of all the possible peoples that the Khom could be, none of them is geographically possible to be Khmer.

There is no trace of Khmer people in northern Thailand or Isan where it is said the Khom inhabited before the Tai pushed them south. There is not even a trace of Khmer in central Thailand from ancient times. Your group is only found in Cambodia and the borders of Cambodia.

I don't know where you people get the Idea you are the same people as the Khom lol is it because you think you built Angkor? Didn't we already explain that Suryavarman II was from Lavo. Lavo is Khom

[LoveIsAllAround]

and for this link
http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/dinosau...ese-thai_7.html

It is clear that Khorm is the people of Angkor Empire.. They have mention about Mon and Khorm.. so if I am not mistaken
Khorm and Mon is known by only Thai
and Khmer and Mon is known internationally.

So of cause in this case Khorm=Khmer for this sence. because they share exactly the same story.

there is no Khorm have mention in Angkor but Khmer ethnic.. there is no no Khorm people existed in Cambodia or anywhere, but Khmer!!!
But I know Nationalism Thai will say Khorm is not Khmer!!!!!!
but Non-nationalism will say Khorm is Thai word to refer Ancient Khmer people. ^^

Don't be stubborn.

There is no 'KHMER' and 'Khom Angkor' mention in Lanna chronicles. All they say is Khom are southerner of them in Haripunchai and Pegu. Only Mon were in Hariphunchai and Pegu. you Khmer were thousands of miles far away. LOL

[Leeporter]

Talking about Khom, I just realized that Chao Praya Bodindecha (former name Singha), one of the famous supreme commander of Siam (early Rattakosin period), has his ancestor in Brahman family.



His father was Chao Praya Apairacha (Pin) whose ancestor was the famous "Bhraman Siriwattana" during King Narai of Ayudhaya.

He was the supreme commander during King Rama 1-3 and won a lot of battle over Lao, Khmer and Yuan army during his time.

If you want to find an example of Khom, he was the one.

And of course, he was not a Khmer for sure.


This post has been edited by Leeporter: Jan 16 2012, 09:20 PM

[LoveIsAllAround]

Your dreams of an empire is false. Your belief your people were all over SEA is false. Your people never ventured far from the mekong delta valley. Even then you were forced north by Jayavarman II.

French brainwash is really work.

[KhmerBoi]

Don't be stubborn.

There is no 'KHMER' and 'Khom Angkor' mention in Lanna chronicles. All they say is Khom are southerner of them in Haripunchai and Pegu. Only Mon were in Hariphunchai and Pegu. you Khmer were thousands of miles far away. LOL

Don't you read it?? they say Khorm of Angkor, Lava was city of Khorm.. see?? this sen we can say already Khorm Empire and Khorm of cause is what we know as Khmer people.. Chinese may say Chenla people, then it call Chenla Empire (Chinese never care about the word Angkor or Kambuja) for the idea of Empire!!! and Vietnam will call Chenlap Empire... and Cham will call Khmer Empire or Kampuja Empire.. ^^ that all point to the same Ethnic and we call our Self Khmer or Kampuchea people.. I think it is very hard for you to accepted it!!

And of cause Vietnamese will tell you that Chenlap is Khmer!!

[KhmerBoi]

LOL That's false translation. Never once in Thai version of Lanna chronicles mention 'KHMER' or 'Khom Angkor'.

Trust me, I read all of that in Thai. You can't rely on that wrong translation website again. I told you.

Lolzz so you mean Thai people are stupid!!! ^^