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Dalai Lama wants to expel millions of Chinese, from Qinghai province and Sichuan
bear11
post Jan 13 2012, 03:53 PM
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http://www.dalailama.com/messages/tibet/fi...oint-peace-plan
QUOTE
Dalai Lama
Today, in the whole of Tibet 7.5 million Chinese settlers have already been sent, outnumbering the Tibetan population of 6 million. In central and western Tibet, now referred to by the Chinese as the "Tibet Autonomous Region", Chinese sources admit the 1.9 million Tibetans already constitute a minority of the region's population. These numbers do not take the estimated 300,000-500,000 troops in Tibet into account - 250,000 of them in so-called Tibet Autonomous Region.

For the Tibetans to survive as a people, it is imperative that the population transfer is stopped and Chinese settlers return to China. Otherwise, Tibetans will soon be no more than a tourist attraction and relic of a noble past.


He is really making a lot of distortions and lies.
He has his own definition of Tibet which includes whole of Qinghai, half of Sichuan, and some other provinces, all of these areas were not even part of Tibet before 1949, then he claims that all of Han Chinese there are settlers and that all need to be expelled.

It is amazing that this guy got Nobel peace prize and even some western politicians meet with him.

That would be one of the biggest ethnic cleansing in recent history. Too bad he is too weak. Maybe China should expel all 2,5 million Tibetans from Qinghai and Sichuan to Tibet, in fact it should do that with useless monks.


But that wont happen, Russians expelled Chinese from 64 villages while China gives Russians in China a status of ethnic minority, Chinese in Mongolia cant even walk on the streets because they could be beaten by Mongolian Nazis , and they also ethnically cleansed Mongolia expelling Chinese while China gives Mongols in China an autonomous region.

This post has been edited by bear11: Jan 23 2012, 03:36 PM
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newties21
post Jan 16 2012, 10:47 AM
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So sad that he is so obsessed about race......

Btw....Tibetans are not going away anytime soon....they wont be extincted.....they wont be gone....they wont go to museum.......

It's not wrong wanting to preserve your race and your culture....but have some little bit of realistic perspective....don't be so exaggerating......

Tibetans are not going to be dead, but at the same time, they wont be able to live like in 19th century anymore.
Today is 21st century.
The clock just cant be turned back.
They have to open up, accept the outside world, which by the way, also include lots of foreign tourists of various
nationalities and races.
Those race warriors who want to turn the clock to 19th century purity just dont understand it.

Because they dont understand, they exaggerate and embellish their fears.

Btw, why are they not saying anything about Dharamsala and all those other areas in India where Tibetan descends live ?
I worry more about them if I were them....because the distance to Indians anthropologically is greater.......and I wont be surprised if within the next 1,2,3, generations, there would be erosion of culture and even intermixing with native Indians.....

Guess they cant open their mouth about that......they have to choose which race to pick......

This post has been edited by newties21: Jan 16 2012, 10:51 AM
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faydabakery
post Jan 29 2012, 09:19 AM
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QUOTE (newties21 @ Jan 16 2012, 10:47 AM) *
So sad that he is so obsessed about race......

Btw....Tibetans are not going away anytime soon....they wont be extincted.....they wont be gone....they wont go to museum.......

It's not wrong wanting to preserve your race and your culture....but have some little bit of realistic perspective....don't be so exaggerating......

Tibetans are not going to be dead, but at the same time, they wont be able to live like in 19th century anymore.
Today is 21st century.
The clock just cant be turned back.
They have to open up, accept the outside world, which by the way, also include lots of foreign tourists of various
nationalities and races.
Those race warriors who want to turn the clock to 19th century purity just dont understand it.

Because they dont understand, they exaggerate and embellish their fears.

Btw, why are they not saying anything about Dharamsala and all those other areas in India where Tibetan descends live ?
I worry more about them if I were them....because the distance to Indians anthropologically is greater.......and I wont be surprised if within the next 1,2,3, generations, there would be erosion of culture and even intermixing with native Indians.....

Guess they cant open their mouth about that......they have to choose which race to pick......


I think everyone is obsessed about race. You forget about "Han Chinese this and Han Chinese that?" And that's within the Chinese population.

But again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy

Discussing the social structure of Tibet inevitably leads to difficulties with defining terms. Not only may serf and feudalism be Western terms inappropriate for Asian use but the geography and peoples of Tibet vary according to interpreter. The lack of agreement of the various sides as to terminology highlights that the 'Serfdom in Tibet' controversy is a politicised debate, with the term 'feudal serfdom' largely being used by the People's Republic of China as a justification for their taking control in Tibet. According to the PRC:

...there was a historically imperative need for the progress of Tibetan society and the happiness of the Tibetan people to expel the imperialists and shake off the yoke of feudal serfdom. The founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949 brought hope for the deeply distressed Tibetan people. In conforming to the law of historical development and the interests of the Tibetan people, the Central People's Government worked actively to bring about Tibet's peaceful liberation. After that, important policies and measures were adopted for Tibet's Democratic Reform, regional autonomy, large-scale modernization and reform and opening-up.[9]

However, the Tibetan government in exile responds:

...the Chinese justifications make no sense. First of all, international law does not accept justifications of this type. No country is allowed to invade, occupy, annex and colonize another country just because its social structure does not please it. Secondly, the PRC is responsible for bringing more suffering in the name of liberation. Thirdly, necessary reforms were initiated and Tibetans are quite capable of doing so.[10]




The Tibetan government does have a point. Example - should the US stay in Iraq and Afghanistan because they're nation building and raising education levels and trying to get those local tribes to get along (in addition to the obsessive terrorist hunting)? Does the Chinese really belong there because they've improved the quality of lives there? Let's face it, China just wants Tibet for its resources, not to really make people there happy.
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devils666
post Jan 29 2012, 09:39 AM
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QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 29 2012, 09:19 AM) *
I think everyone is obsessed about race. You forget about "Han Chinese this and Han Chinese that?" And that's within the Chinese population.

But again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy

Discussing the social structure of Tibet inevitably leads to difficulties with defining terms. Not only may serf and feudalism be Western terms inappropriate for Asian use but the geography and peoples of Tibet vary according to interpreter. The lack of agreement of the various sides as to terminology highlights that the 'Serfdom in Tibet' controversy is a politicised debate, with the term 'feudal serfdom' largely being used by the People's Republic of China as a justification for their taking control in Tibet. According to the PRC:

...there was a historically imperative need for the progress of Tibetan society and the happiness of the Tibetan people to expel the imperialists and shake off the yoke of feudal serfdom. The founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949 brought hope for the deeply distressed Tibetan people. In conforming to the law of historical development and the interests of the Tibetan people, the Central People's Government worked actively to bring about Tibet's peaceful liberation. After that, important policies and measures were adopted for Tibet's Democratic Reform, regional autonomy, large-scale modernization and reform and opening-up.[9]

However, the Tibetan government in exile responds:

...the Chinese justifications make no sense. First of all, international law does not accept justifications of this type. No country is allowed to invade, occupy, annex and colonize another country just because its social structure does not please it. Secondly, the PRC is responsible for bringing more suffering in the name of liberation. Thirdly, necessary reforms were initiated and Tibetans are quite capable of doing so.[10]




The Tibetan government does have a point. Example - should the US stay in Iraq and Afghanistan because they're nation building and raising education levels and trying to get those local tribes to get along (in addition to the obsessive terrorist hunting)? Does the Chinese really belong there because they've improved the quality of lives there? Let's face it, China just wants Tibet for its resources, not to really make people there happy.


Is that the case for Hawaii? Remeber Hawaii was an independent nation with a Queen and royal court. The US decided they didn't like Hawaii's antiquated system and decided to take it over. The only difference is that Hawaii is like the 3rd world country compared to America. At least living standards improved in Tibet.
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faydabakery
post Jan 29 2012, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Jan 29 2012, 09:39 AM) *
Is that the case for Hawaii? Remeber Hawaii was an independent nation with a Queen and royal court. The US decided they didn't like Hawaii's antiquated system and decided to take it over. The only difference is that Hawaii is like the 3rd world country compared to America. At least living standards improved in Tibet.


Exactly. Similar case. The population of Hawaii was infused with tons of Americans. Why would Hawaii secede when the new Americans living there could outvote the natives?
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devils666
post Jan 29 2012, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 29 2012, 09:42 AM) *
Exactly. Similar case. The population of Hawaii was infused with tons of Americans. Why would Hawaii secede when the new Americans living there could outvote the natives?


I agree. There are tons of Americans who have hijacked Hawaii and stomped out any Independence movements.

But in China, hardly any Han's live in Tibet. The majority of Tibetans live in Sichuan province which is NOT PART OF TIBET. Those news articles about riots all said they happened in Sichaun, NOT TIBET - unfortunately these idiot China haters don't know the difference. So does that give Tibetans the right to take over Sichuan province? It would be like Native Hawaiians migrating to california and demanding soveriegnty.

This post has been edited by devils666: Jan 29 2012, 09:50 AM
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faydabakery
post Jan 29 2012, 09:53 AM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Jan 29 2012, 09:46 AM) *
I agree. There are tons of Americans who have hijacked Hawaii and stomped out any Independence movements.

But in China, hardly any Han's live in Tibet. The majority of Tibetans live in Sichuan province which is NOT PART OF TIBET. Those news articles about riots all said they happened in Sichaun, NOT TIBET - unfortunately these idiot China haters don't know the difference. So does that give Tibetans the right to take over Sichuan province? It would be live Native Hawaiians migrating to california and demanding soveriegnty.


Oh, they should definitely not be given part of Sichuan. My point was that the Tibet government has a valid point in that they could have modernized without Chinese interference. If I'm a Tibetan native or Hawaiian native, I'd be pissed and have every right right to be. At least in regards to being conquered and in terms of culture. The cultures are bound to die to a large extent due to assimilation sooner or later. I understand why some Tibetans feel the way they do and why others sympathize with them.
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devils666
post Jan 29 2012, 10:03 AM
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QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 29 2012, 10:53 AM) *
Oh, they should definitely not be given part of Sichuan. My point was that the Tibet government has a valid point in that they could have modernized without Chinese interference. If I'm a Tibetan native or Hawaiian native, I'd be pissed and have every right right to be. At least in regards to being conquered and in terms of culture. The cultures are bound to die to a large extent due to assimilation sooner or later. I understand why some Tibetans feel the way they do and why others sympathize with them.


You forget that Tibetan culture and Chinese culture is intertwined - they are not so different from each other. Tibetans and Chinese both believe in Buddhism, although from different sects. Tibetans and Chinese resemble each other physically. Traditional Tibetan clothes are made from the same silk as Chinese traditional clothes and both exhibit Qipao style lapels. Mandarin is based on the Tibetan language. These overlapping cultural traditions can only occur if both are from similar tribes. The same cannot be said for hawaiian and American culture. White people are definitely NOT even close to polynesian tribes.

I've been to China many times and know that they still speak their native language and follow their traditions. I was watching this talent program and a Tibetan singing group was on, they were all singing in Tibetan and wearing traditional clothes. When the host asked them questions in mandarin, they replied in Tibetan. There was an episode of Anthony Bourdain where he visited Shanghai and "shangri-la" that featured Tibetan people - clearly they're keeping their traditions.
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faydabakery
post Jan 29 2012, 04:54 PM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Jan 29 2012, 10:03 AM) *
You forget that Tibetan culture and Chinese culture is intertwined - they are not so different from each other. Tibetans and Chinese both believe in Buddhism, although from different sects. Tibetans and Chinese resemble each other physically. Traditional Tibetan clothes are made from the same silk as Chinese traditional clothes and both exhibit Qipao style lapels. Mandarin is based on the Tibetan language. These overlapping cultural traditions can only occur if both are from similar tribes. The same cannot be said for hawaiian and American culture. White people are definitely NOT even close to polynesian tribes.

I've been to China many times and know that they still speak their native language and follow their traditions. I was watching this talent program and a Tibetan singing group was on, they were all singing in Tibetan and wearing traditional clothes. When the host asked them questions in mandarin, they replied in Tibetan. There was an episode of Anthony Bourdain where he visited Shanghai and "shangri-la" that featured Tibetan people - clearly they're keeping their traditions.


It doesn't matter if the cultures are intertwined. How many countries in Europe have the same religion? How many in the Middle East? etc. Conquered is still conquered.

As for culture, lets take the US as an example. One could argue that the minority cultures still live. However, is it as strong as in their home nations? No. Why? Lack of ethnic people, ethnic language, ethnic museums, etc. Look at the Shanghainese language. How about the Cantonese language that is dying in the US? As we discussed in other threads, there may be the need for an overall nationalism for all of china. That everyone should be considered Chinese under one banner. Well, to accomplish that, people have to let go off their ethnic background to some degree and assimilate with the rest of the population. Shangri-la is just one remote area in China.

Btw, No Reservations is one of the best shows out there. =)
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devils666
post Jan 29 2012, 11:03 PM
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QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 29 2012, 05:54 PM) *
It doesn't matter if the cultures are intertwined. How many countries in Europe have the same religion? How many in the Middle East? etc. Conquered is still conquered.

As for culture, lets take the US as an example. One could argue that the minority cultures still live. However, is it as strong as in their home nations? No. Why? Lack of ethnic people, ethnic language, ethnic museums, etc. Look at the Shanghainese language. How about the Cantonese language that is dying in the US? As we discussed in other threads, there may be the need for an overall nationalism for all of china. That everyone should be considered Chinese under one banner. Well, to accomplish that, people have to let go off their ethnic background to some degree and assimilate with the rest of the population. Shangri-la is just one remote area in China.

Btw, No Reservations is one of the best shows out there. =)


Assimiliation is inevitable. That's why so many ethnic groups in America stopped speaking their language and took up english. That's why no one in America speaks french or Irish or German. The same way cantonese, shanghainese, or tibetan is losing appeal. But why do these westerners not care about other groups in China losing their heritage? Could it be because their crusade for Tibet comes with an agenda?

Even the CCP members come from some kind of ethnic background, even their heritage is being lost. But why do people ONLY care about Tibetans?
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faydabakery
post Jan 29 2012, 11:33 PM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Jan 29 2012, 11:03 PM) *
Assimiliation is inevitable. That's why so many ethnic groups in America stopped speaking their language and took up english. That's why no one in America speaks french or Irish or German. The same way cantonese, shanghainese, or tibetan is losing appeal. But why do these westerners not care about other groups in China losing their heritage? Could it be because their crusade for Tibet comes with an agenda?

Even the CCP members come from some kind of ethnic background, even their heritage is being lost. But why do people ONLY care about Tibetans?


I'm thinking a celebrity or someone with a lot of money in the US pushed their weight around once they heard about Tibet. They probably used that money to gain support and start pushing the media to get info and report about it. However its not just Tibet. I'm telling you, as important as China is, China's not the only thing in the news. It seems that way because we're so focused on Chinese issues on this board. I generally read about nations around the world from Honduras to Russia to the US and China, etc. It's not always just China China China. I mean, do I really have to get into African issues? How about South American issues? The European debt crisis? The continuation of the Arab Spring? Does China really seem like the center of the world? What's happening in Myanmar is pretty important too.



This post has been edited by faydabakery: Jan 29 2012, 11:41 PM
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Mid-Night_Sun
post Jan 29 2012, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 30 2012, 12:33 AM) *
I'm thinking a celebrity or someone with a lot of money in the US pushed their weight around once they heard about Tibet. They probably used that money to gain support and start pushing the media to get info and report about it. However its not just Tibet. I'm telling you, as important as China is, China's not the only thing in the news. It seems that way because we're so focused on Chinese issues on this board. I generally read about nations around the world from Honduras to Russia to the US and China, etc. It's not always just China China China. I mean, do I really have to get into African issues? How about South American issues? The European debt crisis? The continuation of the Arab Spring? Does China really seem like the center of the world? What's happening in Myanmar is pretty important too.

gee anyone want to guess why?

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faydabakery
post Jan 30 2012, 12:04 AM
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QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Jan 29 2012, 11:59 PM) *
gee anyone want to guess why?

icon_neutral.gif


You should ask him why people only focused on discussing Tibet like its the only thing happening in the world then.
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Mid-Night_Sun
post Jan 30 2012, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 30 2012, 01:04 AM) *
You should ask him why people only focused on discussing Tibet like its the only thing happening in the world then.

so your point is tibet is not a big deal?
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elleX0
post Jan 30 2012, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Jan 30 2012, 05:17 AM) *
so your point is tibet is not a big deal?

No Tibet is not a big deal. It is only CIA and Washington's financial support that has blown Tibet out of all proportion for international political reasons.
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bear11
post Jan 31 2012, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE (elleX0 @ Jan 30 2012, 05:47 AM) *
No Tibet is not a big deal. It is only CIA and Washington's financial support that has blown Tibet out of all proportion for international political reasons.

No it is not CIA it is CCP that created this problem and made a star of Dalai Lama.

Of course the west, particularly the US, wants to weaken China, however the CCP created conditions for that to happen.

It seems the CCP doesn't even understand how the western media works, the western media doesn't care if the Dalai Lama is a splittist as the CCP calls him.

The CCP shouldn't most of the time even talk about Tibet, but about the fact that the Dalai Lama wants to ethnically cleanse areas in 4 Chinese provinces, that some of his demands are causing ethnic tensions in multiethnic areas... which is all true..., that the monks are encouraging violence in multiethnic areas in provinces , such as what is now happening in western part of Sichuan province, where the monk almost brags to the western media that the Tibetans were destroying Chinese shops in Sichuan, and when they make trouble, especially in provinces, just say that every tax payer is equal nobody can have privileges, while the CCP is talking how they improved their lives and so on, which they should realize by now is not working.

The most important thing is to remove an ethnic name from the names of autonomous administrative divisions, where you have Geographical area + Ethnic name + "Autonomous" + Admin. division, such as Haibei Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture.

Things like that were created by the CCP and if the CCP wants to call them autonomous good, but remove the ethnic name because often these areas within provinces which are always multi-ethnic became Tibetan areas in the eyes of western media, monks and probably some Tibetans, after all, it was the CCP that gave that name, so they probably think that all area should belong just to them and that successful people from other communities living there should have their shops destroyed.

The CCP also created Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region by abolishing provinces there and turned Xinjiang province into Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

When you have such large ethnic ares that are "autonomous", even if the chance of separating is low it will attract a lot of external enemies, at least to tarnish China, and it is obvious that the tarnishing of China is quite successful.

You have so much bloody conflicts in many countries that do not attract so much attention, look at the ongoing conflicts in Russia's Dagestan and Chechnya, it is in areas so small you can't even find them on a map of Russia, but when something happens in an area a size of Iran such as Xinjiang it attracts a lot of attention.

The nationalists were not idiots, their 1947 constitution was the same as in most normal countries and much better than the current one.

What I am writing here is actually something that recently some scholars from China were talking about, I will soon post an article about that.

Basically, the CCP is guilty for creating some of these problems and they won't go away, just like they didn't go away in Russia when they became a democracy because they kept ridiculous administrative system created by communists, while other big countries such as Brazil, Australia, the US or India don't have this kind of problem because they didn't have communists to create them.

This post has been edited by bear11: Jan 31 2012, 04:52 AM
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Posts in this topic
- bear11   Dalai Lama wants to expel millions of Chinese   Jan 13 2012, 03:53 PM
- - Chicom   Don't Westerners want multiculturalism? Don...   Jan 13 2012, 08:29 PM
- - TMM   Right-wing extremism? So why can't other Chine...   Jan 13 2012, 10:02 PM
- - Titanium   Good luck with that one LOL!   Jan 14 2012, 03:08 AM
- - devils666   The Dalai Lama was writing this rant while sucking...   Jan 14 2012, 05:28 AM
- - newties21   So sad that he is so obsessed about race...... Bt...   Jan 16 2012, 10:47 AM
|- - bear11   The point is that this Nobel peace winner advocate...   Jan 16 2012, 02:47 PM
|- - faydabakery   QUOTE (newties21 @ Jan 16 2012, 10:47 AM)...   Jan 29 2012, 09:19 AM
|- - devils666   QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 29 2012, 09:19 A...   Jan 29 2012, 09:39 AM
|- - faydabakery   QUOTE (devils666 @ Jan 29 2012, 09:39 AM)...   Jan 29 2012, 09:42 AM
|- - devils666   QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 29 2012, 09:42 A...   Jan 29 2012, 09:46 AM
|- - faydabakery   QUOTE (devils666 @ Jan 29 2012, 09:46 AM)...   Jan 29 2012, 09:53 AM
|- - devils666   QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 29 2012, 10:53 A...   Jan 29 2012, 10:03 AM
|- - faydabakery   QUOTE (devils666 @ Jan 29 2012, 10:03 AM)...   Jan 29 2012, 04:54 PM
|- - devils666   QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 29 2012, 05:54 P...   Jan 29 2012, 11:03 PM
|- - faydabakery   QUOTE (devils666 @ Jan 29 2012, 11:03 PM)...   Jan 29 2012, 11:33 PM
|- - Mid-Night_Sun   QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 30 2012, 12:33 A...   Jan 29 2012, 11:59 PM
|- - faydabakery   QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Jan 29 2012, 11...   Jan 30 2012, 12:04 AM
|- - Mid-Night_Sun   QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 30 2012, 01:04 A...   Jan 30 2012, 12:17 AM
|- - elleX0   QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Jan 30 2012, 05...   Jan 30 2012, 04:47 AM
|- - Mid-Night_Sun   QUOTE (elleX0 @ Jan 30 2012, 05:47 AM) No...   Jan 30 2012, 06:43 AM
||- - elleX0   QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Jan 30 2012, 11...   Jan 30 2012, 07:34 AM
||- - Mid-Night_Sun   QUOTE (elleX0 @ Jan 30 2012, 08:34 AM) Si...   Jan 30 2012, 07:43 AM
|||- - Ideodygreasse   meble gabinetowe   Feb 3 2012, 08:42 PM
||- - Ideodygreasse   meble gabinetowe   Feb 3 2012, 08:43 PM
|- - bear11   QUOTE (elleX0 @ Jan 30 2012, 05:47 AM) No...   Jan 31 2012, 04:47 AM
|- - elleX0   QUOTE (bear11 @ Jan 31 2012, 09:47 AM) No...   Jan 31 2012, 05:54 AM
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- - Hugham   ^ Invade Tibet? Tibet already part of China, even...   Jan 23 2012, 08:09 AM
|- - elleX0   QUOTE (Hugham @ Jan 23 2012, 01:09 PM) ^ ...   Jan 23 2012, 09:09 AM
|- - Hugham   QUOTE (elleX0 @ Jan 23 2012, 10:09 PM) Ma...   Jan 23 2012, 12:50 PM
|- - elleX0   QUOTE (Hugham @ Jan 23 2012, 05:50 PM) I ...   Jan 23 2012, 01:06 PM
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- - YamatoG   Its sad really, Tibetans are genetically the same ...   Jan 29 2012, 04:14 AM
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|- - Mid-Night_Sun   QUOTE (faydabakery @ Jan 30 2012, 09:57 A...   Jan 30 2012, 09:07 AM
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|- - elleX0   QUOTE (TupeTavyrep @ Feb 7 2012, 01:54 PM...   Feb 7 2012, 11:30 AM
|- - Laurdytat   Compare Ed Medicine , order zyban Patients who fi...   Feb 8 2012, 01:07 AM
- - Laurdytat   College Of Electronic Medicine , order zyban No p...   Feb 8 2012, 01:01 AM


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