Is Christianity a sexist faith, as some would have us believe? Options

[chutzpah]

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/04/muslim-w...--in-paris.html

Muslim women seek to surgically "restore" virginity for their own safety -- in Paris

This story makes extensive use of the "culture" canard -- that is, don't blame Islam, blame "cultural" influences. Here's the problem: Cultural influences do count, and in a big way. Why?

Islam, despite its claims of being eternal, unchanged, and handed down in perfect form from on high, did not come up in a vacuum. It is utterly suffused with the baggage of Muhammad's culture, place, and time -- seventh-century Arabia -- not to mention his personal biases and hangups. All of this baggage is made sacrosanct via Qur'an 33:21, which calls Muhammad a "beautiful pattern of conduct" for believers.

Thus, the obsession with virginity described in "Arab cultures" here is tremendously reinforced and encouraged by several major aspects of Islam: the severity of punishments for sexual crimes, the uneven responsibility conferred on women to protect their and their families' "honor" through veiling and seclusion, and the sanction found in Qur'an 4:34 for attempting to "control" women with violence.

Of course, that doesn't stop the author of this report from avoiding the Islamic issue, and tacking on the usual tu quoque boilerplate, noted below.

"The virginity industry," by Najlaa Abou Mehri and Linda Sills, for BBC Radio 4, April 25:

Young Arab women wait in an upmarket medical clinic for an operation that will not only change their lives, but quite possibly save it. Yet the operation is a matter of choice and not necessity. It costs about 2,000 euros (£1,700) and carries very little risk.
A
The clinic is not in Dubai or Cairo, but in Paris. And the surgery they are waiting for is to restore their virginity.
Whether in Asia or the Arab world, an unknown number of women face an agonising problem having broken a deep taboo. They've had sex outside marriage and if found out, risk being ostracised by their communities, or even murdered.

Now more and more of them are undergoing surgery to re-connect their hymens and hide any sign of past sexual activity. They want to ensure that blood is spilled on their wedding night sheets.
The social pressure is so great that some women have even taken their own lives. [...]

Noor is a trendy professional who works in Damascus. He's fairly representative of young Syrian men in a secular society. But although Noor says he believes in equality for women, underneath the liberal facade lies a deep-rooted conservatism.
"I know girls who went through this restoration and they were caught out on their wedding night by their husbands," he says. "They realised they weren't virgins. Even if society accepts such a thing, I would still refuse to marry her."
Muslim clerics are quick to point out that the virginity issue is not about religion. "We should remember that when people wait for the virgin's blood to be spilled on the sheet, these are all cultural traditions," says Syrian cleric, Sheikh Mohamad Habash. "This is not related to Shariah law."

But killing for adultery (Sahih Bukhari 8.82.816), and demanding four witnesses to "prove" sexual crimes such as rape (Qur'an 24:4) most certainly are related to Sharia.

And now, some hastily tacked-on moral equivalence:

Christian communities in the Middle East are often just as firm in their belief that women should be virgins when they marry.
Arab writer and social commentator, Sana Al Khayat believes the whole issue has much to with the notion of "control"....
But where did that come from?

NOTE: read this also - The virginity industry - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8641099.

Do you know any Christians who undergo this surgery? Does Christianity teach the same? But Tangawizi insists that Christianity is as sexist, it is incredible that it is coming from a twat in a frock!

[27thRedMartyr]

If you have not read the bible, it is for a fact every Abrihimic Religion is sexist no exceptions. Read the bible yourself, ask a Christian they will give you their favorite parts cherry picked.

[elleX0]

If you have not read the bible, it is for a fact every Abrihimic Religion is sexist no exceptions. Read the bible yourself, ask a Christian they will give you their favorite parts cherry picked.

No 27th, Tell me, have you read the Bible? Or the Torah or the Quran? Where does it mention about virginity? Have you studied Buddhism or Taoism? Where does it mention virginity? Yet the Chinese are just a particular that the new bride shall be a virgin as a Muslim is or a Hindu is. Why is this so? Why are virgins so special? Tell us.

[tangawizi]

No 27th, Tell me, have you read the Bible? Or the Torah or the Quran? Where does it mention about virginity?

Errrr.... didn't the bible mention it was a virgin who gave birth to Jesus Christ?

[elleX0]

Errrr.... didn't the bible mention it was a virgin who gave birth to Jesus Christ?

Nothing to do with the context of which we are discussing!

[avisitor]

Nothing to do with the context of which we are discussing!

Doesn't the idea of virgin birth make the Jesus an extraordinary man???
To glorify him??? To make virginity a thing of desire ... even if it isn't possible???

I think you're being a little narrow in your definition of the context of virginity.
After all it is about the cultural ideas of virginity that is being discussed here.
Not what is just written in the Bible or those other religious books.

Please no need to answer ... we all know where you stand ... hahahaha

[chutzpah]

If you have not read the bible, it is for a fact every Abrihimic Religion is sexist no exceptions. Read the bible yourself, ask a Christian they will give you their favorite parts cherry picked.

27th, give an example of what you say please..

Nothing to do with the context of which we are discussing!

elleXO, just look at the tone and the content of both Tanga and avisitor responses, speak volumes about their person. So much for their nauseating contemplative way and exhortation for peace. When they are not able to debate intelligently they either lie, or poking fun at the topic. What pathetic sad people they are.

Here are some sample of what it means to be a Muslima - Videos on Islam: Violence against wome:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Videos_on_Islam:...e_against_women

Show me where in Christendom evils such as these take place?

This post has been edited by chutzpah: Jan 19 2012, 10:06 PM

[avisitor]

elleXO, just look at the tone and the content of both Tanga and avisitor responses, speak volumes about their person. So much for their nauseating contemplative way and exhortation for peace. When they are not able to debate intelligently they either lie, or poking fun at the topic. What pathetic sad people they are.

It is pathetic the way you consistently try to defame an entire religion and its people.
It is absolutely nauseating the way you talk so serious when the subject is nothing but hilarious.
What a sad pathetic person you really are .... hehehehe


Edit: Make note that it says "when the subject is nothing but hilarious"
And not all subjects. Small minded people will twist everything around to suit their needs.
Me Too!!!!

This post has been edited by avisitor: Jan 19 2012, 11:31 PM

[chutzpah]

It is pathetic the way you consistently try to defame an entire religion and its people.
It is absolutely nauseating the way you talk so serious when the subject is nothing but hilarious.
What a sad pathetic person you really are .... hehehehe

So butchering, vagina reconstruction or be killed and absolute intolerance are hillarious subjects to this troll. Well, I truly feel sad for his poor kids having such an enlightened daddy...

[tangawizi]

We don't wanna feel the same about you too for being such a hate-mongering mom, but you are not helping us ..

[avisitor]

So butchering, vagina reconstruction or be killed and absolute intolerance are hillarious subjects to this troll. Well, I truly feel sad for his poor kids having such an enlightened daddy...

In this topic, who said anything about butchering, vagina reconstruction and absolute intolerance???
Hmmm, that's right ... it was you. You're the butcher and filled with absolute intolerance ... the vagina reconstruction??
Well, I can only guess ... you really haven't been that nice ... so maybe it didn't go well ... hehehehe

I pity your friends for having to deal with the small mindedness which you carry around like a badge of honor ...
wait .. do you even have any friends???

[chutzpah]

Sexism and Islam
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...02054000AAD7SyM

Women of Islam
1. Islam teaches that men are superior to women Surah 2:228
2. Islam teaches that women have half the rights of men
a) In court witness Surah 2:282
b) In inheritance Surah 4:11
3. Islam considers they are a possession Surah 3:14
4. Islam teaches that women are unclean. Surah 4:43
5. Islam instructs women to veil themselves always when they are outside their home. Surah 24:31
5. Mohammed teaches that women are lacking in mind and religion. (Al Bukhary Vol. 2:541)
6. Mohammed teaches that women are a bad omen (Al Bukhary Vol. 7:30)
7. Mohammed teaches that women are harmful to men. (Al Bukhary Vol. 7:33)

Marriage in Islam
1. Islam allows polygamy Surah 4:3
2. Islam allows a man to divorce his wife by oral announcement Surah 2:229
3. When a husband has pronounced divorce three times on his wife, she then may not lawfully remarry her husband until she has married and been divorced by another man (including having intimate relation with him) Surah 2:230
Islam teaches that a wife is subject to punishment by her husband Surah 4:34

Intimate relation in Islam
Islam considers the wife a sex object Surah 2:223
Unnatural sex is allowed (Al Buhhary Vol 6:51)

Children of Islam
Children have to be raised according to their Muslim father’s religion;
If he divorces you he gets custody of the children and you would’t be able to see your children again. There is no such thing a visitation rights in Islam. The Sharia (Islamic Law) states that in mixed marriages “the children will follow the better of the two religions of their parents”, which in your case is Islam. The Quran states that Islam is the only true religion. “The religion before god is Islam.” Surah 3:19) Non – Muslims can not act as protectors to Muslims. Surah 4:144)

Your Future in Islam

Should a woman survive her Muslim husband, and his wealth in an Islamic country, the Islamic law will apply.
The wife who has not converted to Islam gets nothing, the wife who has converted to Islam gets very little. According to the Quran a wife does not inherit all her husband’s wealth. If the husband dies and he leaves no children, she gets a forth of his wealth, his parents, brothers, uncles…ets, will get the rest. If the deceased husband leaves children, then the wife gets an eighth, the children get the rest; the male child gets double the portion of the female. Surah 4:12

Before the woman says “I DO”
Before a woman commits herself to marry a Muslim, it is a good idea to examine the motives behind it. Marrying a Muslim is asking for trouble.
You may say that your husband-to-be is a non-practicing Muslim. But let’s not forget that Islam is more than a religion; it includes a complete legal code for Muslims and non-Muslims to follow in an Islamic State. In case of a dispute between you and him, all he needs to do to get the upper hand over you is to travel to an Islamic country.

If you are in doubt about this, may I suggest that you see the movie, “Not without my daughter” which is based on a true life story.

MORE:
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...15110500AAn9N8g

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...19102224AApFYbb

BTW the trolls think posting the truth is tantamount to spreading hatred. They should know, they spread lies and half truth all the time..

[avisitor]

Sexism and Islam
BTW the trolls think posting the truth is tantamount to spreading hatred. They should know, they spread lies and half truth all the time..

The first rule of propaganda is to try to believe the crap you are spouting out to others ... no matter what the truth is
Second is to take any incident and use it for your own purposes.
I think you have fulfilled your role as spreader of hatred ... oh excuse me, you say that you're warning us of the dangers of the Islamic faith and its followers

geez, when will the earth ever find peace??? Never with the likes of Chutzpah and elleXO.
You're entitled to your opinions and you can back them up with whatever you want to use as points of "fact".
I don't cuz the truth is obvious and sustains itself by being truth.
You want quotes from religious books and use news incidents??
Well, a mad man ran around midtown NYC and stabbed and killed many people.
Should we all use him as an example of the human race??? Whatever.

[elleX0]

Sexism and Islam
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...02054000AAD7SyM

MORE:
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...15110500AAn9N8g

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...19102224AApFYbb

BTW the trolls think posting the truth is tantamount to spreading hatred. They should know, they spread lies and half truth all the time..

What I cannot understand is that, "GOD GAVE THEM EYES BUT THEY CANNOT SEE. GOD GAVE THEM EARS BUT THEY CANNOT HEAR. AND GOD GAVE THEM A VOICE BUT THEY CAN ONLY UTTER THE SATANIC VERSES.

[chutzpah]

What I cannot understand is that, "GOD GAVE THEM EYES BUT THEY CANNOT SEE. GOD GAVE THEM EARS BUT THEY CANNOT HEAR. AND GOD GAVE THEM A VOICE BUT THEY CAN ONLY UTTER THE SATANIC VERSES.

And pretend to advocate peace.

[Yer]

Old Testament - sexist
New Testament - mildly sexist
Jesus - unprejudiced

It's crazy how liberal Jesus was, even compared to his later disciples. God himself wasn't recorded saying anything sexist, other than that woman would be ruled by man in punishment for Eve's sin. You can argue that Eve being made from Adam's rib was sexist, but 1. that's actually just one version of the story, 2. it's not true, and 3. so what? either Adam came first or Eve did. Both were made in God's image.

A popular teaching on the relationship between man and woman is somewhere in the gospel of Paul (too lazy to find the actual passage). It goes something like: man is the head of woman, just as God is the head of man. The wife should submit to the husband, and the husband should love her as he loves himself.

One thought: how much of what Paul wrote depended on what he learned from God, and how much of it came from his observations on common marital practices? I think in those times, it would have been pretty difficult for any man to conceive of the wife having equal footing with the husband by any rightful means. At most, it was an anomaly and something to laugh at, if not disapprove of. Even if God told him so, does God really think that needs to be true or did he think that needed to be true for that particular period? Did he really have no problems with slavery, just because he let the Israelites own slaves? Did he think warfare was good, because he supported the Israelites against their enemies?

For the second part of what he said, that can be read in many ways. One way is that 1. the job of the wife is to submit to the husband, and the husband should take care of her. Simple enough. On the other hand, 2. If the husband loves the wife as he loves himself (in essence, they are one person), how is it possible for the husband for rule over the wife? Isn't he, in a way, giving up his own will to "submit" to hers? Also, if a husband doesn't love his wife, should the wife submit to him? Why should she hold up her end of the bargain when the other party does not?

So, you see, there are many ways to interpret the supposedly sexist parts of the Bible. Undoubtedly, most historical Christians were sexist, but I think it had less to do with their religion in particular and more to do with whatever else that caused sexism among ancient cultures in general.

It's also important to note that there is a huge break between the Old Testament philosophies and the New Testament philosophies. Even when Jesus was alive, a lot of Jewish religious authorities disagreed with what he said; after he died, there continued to be disagreements. One major difference between the Old Testament God and the New Testament God is that the New Testament God includes non-Jews among his people. New leaders like Paul start to downplay the kosher aspects. Paul says the laws themselves are not particularly important; what matters is the heart! What does that say about those convoluted chapters like Leviticus where menstruating women are "unclean" and people are not allowed to touch them? How much was there of this new religion that even Paul was not aware of?

[tangawizi]

All the abrahamaic scriptures contain verses which we would now consider as sexist without a doubt.

What we need to look at are the actions and words of its adherents today.

The orthodox Jews are still sexist to this day. Muslims in certain countries are sexist no doubt ... in Jakarta, they are starting to segregate the buses into females and males... that's going backward indeed.

In contrast, Christians are not as sexist in practice. But their clergy needs to evolve and keep up with the times, especially the Catholic clergy and some of the wierd evangelical sects.

This post has been edited by tangawizi: Jan 24 2012, 07:56 AM

[chutzpah]

Old Testament - sexist
New Testament - mildly sexist
Jesus - unprejudiced

It's crazy how liberal Jesus was, even compared to his later disciples. God himself wasn't recorded saying anything sexist, other than that woman would be ruled by man in punishment for Eve's sin. You can argue that Eve being made from Adam's rib was sexist, but 1. that's actually just one version of the story, 2. it's not true, and 3. so what? either Adam came first or Eve did. Both were made in God's image.

A popular teaching on the relationship between man and woman is somewhere in the gospel of Paul (too lazy to find the actual passage). It goes something like: man is the head of woman, just as God is the head of man. The wife should submit to the husband, and the husband should love her as he loves himself.

One thought: how much of what Paul wrote depended on what he learned from God, and how much of it came from his observations on common marital practices? I think in those times, it would have been pretty difficult for any man to conceive of the wife having equal footing with the husband by any rightful means. At most, it was an anomaly and something to laugh at, if not disapprove of. Even if God told him so, does God really think that needs to be true or did he think that needed to be true for that particular period? Did he really have no problems with slavery, just because he let the Israelites own slaves? Did he think warfare was good, because he supported the Israelites against their enemies?

For the second part of what he said, that can be read in many ways. One way is that 1. the job of the wife is to submit to the husband, and the husband should take care of her. Simple enough. On the other hand, 2. If the husband loves the wife as he loves himself (in essence, they are one person), how is it possible for the husband for rule over the wife? Isn't he, in a way, giving up his own will to "submit" to hers? Also, if a husband doesn't love his wife, should the wife submit to him? Why should she hold up her end of the bargain when the other party does not?

So, you see, there are many ways to interpret the supposedly sexist parts of the Bible. Undoubtedly, most historical Christians were sexist, but I think it had less to do with their religion in particular and more to do with whatever else that caused sexism among ancient cultures in general.

It's also important to note that there is a huge break between the Old Testament philosophies and the New Testament philosophies. Even when Jesus was alive, a lot of Jewish religious authorities disagreed with what he said; after he died, there continued to be disagreements. One major difference between the Old Testament God and the New Testament God is that the New Testament God includes non-Jews among his people. New leaders like Paul start to downplay the kosher aspects. Paul says the laws themselves are not particularly important; what matters is the heart! What does that say about those convoluted chapters like Leviticus where menstruating women are "unclean" and people are not allowed to touch them? How much was there of this new religion that even Paul was not aware of?

Dear Yer, I welcome your input, and I thank you for being at least civil in your reply which is much more that can be said about some here. May I suggest that you read the following link for your future reference about sexism in the New Testament:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sexism.html

Surely you would agree that it is important to be well informed about a topic prior to making any statement. As to sexism in the Old Testament, I think St Paul explained it best, which can also be read in the same link provided. You may or may not agree with the Christian position on women, but at least you should get it right.

More on sexism in Islam

February 6, 2012
The Mistreatment of Women in Muslim Countries
Shari Goodman


 
In examining the attitude of men towards women in Islamic culture it is important for readers to note that Islamic culture is derived from the Quran and codified into law by Sharia which is the civil code for the Quran. It codifies into law every aspect and action of a practicing Muslim's life. Within Islam, there can be no other law that supercedes Quranic doctrine; thus man made laws such as our Constitution would not be recognized and have no standing. It is difficult to separate the norms and mores of Islamic society from the underpinnings of those norms, and the underpinning for Islamic culture and norms is the Quran. When we read the actual passages pertaining to women, the following verses are just a few of the numerous verses that are at odds with the norms and mores of Western civilization.

Full article: http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publi.../pub_detail.asp

My detractors particular the self loathing Chinese Singaporean will no doubt be kicking and screaming 'hate mongering' again, but really, who cares? The fact is, it is the truth and not one of them, not one ever come up with any refutations.

This post has been edited by chutzpah: Feb 7 2012, 03:07 AM