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What is Pangasinense?
AnybodyKiller
post Feb 17 2012, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (nenabunena @ Feb 17 2012, 01:07 PM) *
That is true but that is not the point, the point is you have no standing or credibility in the scientific community to question or tackle the theories brought forward. The ones who are in such a position to do so have merit because they have earned it through serious study, in other words they have degrees. I think you may think too little of both archaeology & linguistics that you assume any person off the street with no college education, masteral degree, phd are equipped to challenge such theories. If you are serious with challenging these scholars who have studied for years on the subject at hand, then take your hypothesis off internet frums, get a degree in archaeology & linguistics & challenge them.

Everyone is free to make their own opinions, fabricated or not, but as people we need to be rational & take responsibility with intentional misinformation or misrepresentation of self & data.

Linguistics & archarology both belong to social sciences, they are not exact, therefore one should be all the more prudent, careful, exact & strict with their research & proclamations. That is the very point I am trying to make. We cannot afford to be careless in such a subject. Also, your presentations are not theories but mere hypothesis. A theory is dependent & subjected to scientific scrutiny & method. None of us is capable of subjecting such hypothesis to tests, these hypothesis are all interesting. But be logical & rationale, you need to test such ideas & see where & if they stand for them to hold any water or weight. I can make any proclamations like we are all aliens from the planet Marduk, but without a serious study & test imposed upon it, it is all empty conjecture out of people's imagination.

Now, you bring the topic back to Out of Taiwan theory which has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. Almost every thread here is devoted to posters/trolls/haters dedication to Filipino genes, yet no one cares to talk about Filipino culture, history, sociology, politics, etc. I have avoided every troll baited thread here, please don't relegate this thread into another Aeta/Korean/NE Asian thread. & this will be my last response to any post of yours unrelated to the discussion at hand.



Fine. SO you have to threads & many more here dedicated to your interest, why try to steer this thread into another one of those? We don't need every thread to be about genes of Filipinos. Let's have a few threads about our culture & history shall we?





Maybe maybe maybe? Maybe all Filipino languages are in fact Romance languages or Sinitic? Come on. I think I will rely more on experts/professionals with years of serious study under their belts than some poster on an internet site. Please don't be offended, but remember 'humility is not only a virtue, it is rationale.' Please be rationale, why should one listen to a person just learning to count over a mathematician?



Paul Manansala himself is open to the study & expert opinions of others. Read the quote I posted above. He has since reanalysed these points. & you are putting words into his mouth. Again, please don't make this thread into another Aeta thread or Out of Taiwan vs Sunda thread. Like you said, you have many threads here already dedicated to that subject.

Be reasonable, apply some humility in yourself please.


The reason I started independently studying genetics is because that's where the 'attacks' seem to be coming from nowadays. People claim Filipinos are 70% East Asian wtih 30% Papuan, Australian Aboriginal etc. (which isn't even true in the first place) as if these people are somehow "obviously less evolved" . Biological caste system etc. I like being able to refute people like this.

Even mainstream linguistics and archeology I take as currently accepted theories because it's soft science and are subjective to interpretation. Agreed.

Also the thread has derailed as you pointed out. Sorry. beerchug.gif
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nenabunena
post Feb 17 2012, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (AnybodyKiller @ Feb 18 2012, 03:27 AM) *
The reason I started independently studying genetics is because that's where the 'attacks' seem to be coming from nowadays. People claim Filipinos are 70% East Asian wtih 30% Papuan, Australian Aboriginal etc. (which isn't even true in the first place) as if these people are somehow "obviously less evolved" . Biological caste system etc. I like being able to refute people like this.

Even mainstream linguistics and archeology I take as currently accepted theories because it's soft science and are subjective to interpretation. Agreed.

Also the thread has derailed as you pointed out. Sorry. beerchug.gif



It's the same for me AK & believe me, I feel you. Tris probably feels it strongly too as well as many posters here. The thing is most threads here are dedicated to that, I wish Filipinos would take interest in their culture, society, history & politics as well. There is more to being Filipino.

At ittatagalog ko ito dahil ayaw kong maintindihan tayo ng mga dayuhan ha? Maraming mga dayuhan dito na mababa ang tingin sa mga Pinoy, hindi tumutulong na lalo natin ito pinapalaganap kapag binubuhos natin ang buong pagka-pinoy sa ating dugo at ang pagkakaiba natin sa isa't isa. Ito ang dahilan kung bakit hindi tayo umuunlad. Nung dumating ang mga Kastila, hiwa hiwalay tayo bate sa tribo o pangkat natin. Napansin ito ng mga Kastila at ginamit para lalo tayong mag-away away sa isa't isa at hindi magkaisa para mag-rebolusyon. Hanggang ngayon, pagkatapos ng 100 taon, ganun parin tayo. Iba't iba ang pinanggalingan natin, halo halo ang dugo natin pero ang pagiging Pilipino hindi lamang sa laman ng dugo, nasa pag-iisip at sa kultura nating lahat. Sana man lang, hindi lang ang pagkadugo ang nasa tutok ng mga isipan natin, mayaman ang kulturang pilipino. Sana maipakita natin sa mundo kung gaano tayo kayaman.
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AnybodyKiller
post Feb 17 2012, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (nenabunena @ Feb 17 2012, 01:57 PM) *
It's the same for me AK & believe me, I feel you. Tris probably feels it strongly too as well as many posters here. The thing is most threads here are dedicated to that, I wish Filipinos would take interest in their culture, society, history & politics as well. There is more to being Filipino.

At ittatagalog ko ito dahil ayaw kong maintindihan tayo ng mga dayuhan ha? Maraming mga dayuhan dito na mababa ang tingin sa mga Pinoy, hindi tumutulong na lalo natin ito pinapalaganap kapag binubuhos natin ang buong pagka-pinoy sa ating dugo at ang pagkakaiba natin sa isa't isa. Ito ang dahilan kung bakit hindi tayo umuunlad. Nung dumating ang mga Kastila, hiwa hiwalay tayo bate sa tribo o pangkat natin. Napansin ito ng mga Kastila at ginamit para lalo tayong mag-away away sa isa't isa at hindi magkaisa para mag-rebolusyon. Hanggang ngayon, pagkatapos ng 100 taon, ganun parin tayo. Iba't iba ang pinanggalingan natin, halo halo ang dugo natin pero ang pagiging Pilipino hindi lamang sa laman ng dugo, nasa pag-iisip at sa kultura nating lahat. Sana man lang, hindi lang ang pagkadugo ang nasa tutok ng mga isipan natin, mayaman ang kulturang pilipino. Sana maipakita natin sa mundo kung gaano tayo kayaman.


There is definitely more to a people than genetics. In fact I'd say that culture is the most important factor in defining a people. Even genetically similar people can be considered a different ethnicity. For instance Finnish people are further from German/English people than Greek people, yet are considered more white than them.

We have a rich and diverse culture that we should be celebrating and not forgetting. Divide and conquer is part of the Imperialist MO. Get the people to fight each other, then when all sides are nursing their injuries, strike hardest. Being colonized for such a long period of time, people start to dislike themselves as remnants of this colonial mentality. Even in the movie 'Lumpia' I posted in the other thread there is evidence of this. These new 'biological determinists' don't help our situation either. I think you're right that enough has been said about genetics because of the people who would make us seem biologically inferior. We should now focus on history, culture and even politics/current events in our discussions.

This post has been edited by AnybodyKiller: Feb 17 2012, 03:36 PM
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nenabunena
post Feb 17 2012, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (AnybodyKiller @ Feb 18 2012, 04:35 AM) *
There is definitely more to a people than genetics. In fact I'd say that culture is the most important factor in defining a people. Even genetically similar people can be considered a different ethnicity. For instance Finnish people are further from German/English people than Greek people, yet are considered more white than them.

We have a rich and diverse culture that we should be celebrating and not forgetting. Divide and conquer is part of the Imperialist MO. Get the people to fight each other, then when all sides are nursing their injuries, strike hardest. Being colonized for such a long period of time, people start to dislike themselves as remnants of this colonial mentality. Even in the movie 'Lumpia' I posted in the other thread there is evidence of this. These new 'biological determinists' don't help our situation either. I think you're right that enough has been said about genetics because of the people who would make us seem biologically inferior. We should now focus on history, culture and even politics/current events in our discussions.



Yes, I did read that. It was very surprising!

The Philippines offers so much potential in the arts & humanities in terms of films & literature. The fact that we have so many diverse & rich cultures is a source of insurmountable wealth! There is so much that could be done in exploring, exposing & utilizing such cultures! Imagine the potential if only we can tap into that & use it! But we should have unity foremost in our minds, because none of us can do it alone without the other, we need each other. Therefore we should all be more sensitive to the differences & similarities between us. I am against anything that divides & breeds hostility amongst Filipinos, we should not fall for that bait. Besides, the study of Filipino genes is IMO very limited, there have been no extensive studies to truly make any conclusions. & IMO, I will leave it up to the experts & for those who troll & hates Filipinos, don't fall for their bait. Many people troll others for whatever reason, never feed the troll, ignore it. Because feeding it only fans the flames, & in the end, they win.

My concern is more on Filipino culture, we need to preserve & remember to instill pride & unity amongst us. I wish we had more varied literature, Filipinos are amongst the best writers out there since time immemorial. We have a reputation for being linguistically adept (except me, lol!), so I don't know what's stopping us from writing masterpieces! IMO, it is only ourselves that's stopping us from reaching our own potential as a people.

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AnybodyKiller
post Feb 17 2012, 10:43 PM
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QUOTE (nenabunena @ Feb 17 2012, 03:14 PM) *
Yes, I did read that. It was very surprising!

The Philippines offers so much potential in the arts & humanities in terms of films & literature. The fact that we have so many diverse & rich cultures is a source of insurmountable wealth! There is so much that could be done in exploring, exposing & utilizing such cultures! Imagine the potential if only we can tap into that & use it! But we should have unity foremost in our minds, because none of us can do it alone without the other, we need each other. Therefore we should all be more sensitive to the differences & similarities between us. I am against anything that divides & breeds hostility amongst Filipinos, we should not fall for that bait. Besides, the study of Filipino genes is IMO very limited, there have been no extensive studies to truly make any conclusions. & IMO, I will leave it up to the experts & for those who troll & hates Filipinos, don't fall for their bait. Many people troll others for whatever reason, never feed the troll, ignore it. Because feeding it only fans the flames, & in the end, they win.

My concern is more on Filipino culture, we need to preserve & remember to instill pride & unity amongst us. I wish we had more varied literature, Filipinos are amongst the best writers out there since time immemorial. We have a reputation for being linguistically adept (except me, lol!), so I don't know what's stopping us from writing masterpieces! IMO, it is only ourselves that's stopping us from reaching our own potential as a people.


I agree, that there is much to be gained through tapping into our culture. Right now many don't know much about their culture and what they do know is only part of the story. For example, many of my friends for the longest time thought our culture was only "head hunters" before the Spanish came. This is truly unacceptable. It's fine with me that many choose to identify with this aspect, but to not know anything else is terrible. A problem I see is that there isn't a lot of Filipino representation in Anthropology, that's why I tip my hat to people like Tris for his informative posts. The amount of data on genetics of the Philippines is limited compared to a lot of other populations, but there has been a lot more available recently. If we viewed people according to genetics we are all the same species with no sub-species. However, visible characteristics, religion, culture and political agendas are more important to defining ethnicity ten fold. By any means genetic makeup is not as important as history and culture, genetics is merely supplementary and can act as a hard scientific proof for the naysayers.

You're right, it is only ourselves stopping us from succeeding. There definitely should be more writers, we just need to spark the interest in the first place. In addition to relearning our history and reaffirming our culture, I think it would be helpful for more people to be knowledgeable of world events, local issues and politics.

This post has been edited by AnybodyKiller: Feb 17 2012, 10:44 PM
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nenabunena
post Feb 21 2012, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE (AnybodyKiller @ Feb 18 2012, 11:43 AM) *
I agree, that there is much to be gained through tapping into our culture. Right now many don't know much about their culture and what they do know is only part of the story. For example, many of my friends for the longest time thought our culture was only "head hunters" before the Spanish came. This is truly unacceptable. It's fine with me that many choose to identify with this aspect, but to not know anything else is terrible. A problem I see is that there isn't a lot of Filipino representation in Anthropology, that's why I tip my hat to people like Tris for his informative posts. The amount of data on genetics of the Philippines is limited compared to a lot of other populations, but there has been a lot more available recently. If we viewed people according to genetics we are all the same species with no sub-species. However, visible characteristics, religion, culture and political agendas are more important to defining ethnicity ten fold. By any means genetic makeup is not as important as history and culture, genetics is merely supplementary and can act as a hard scientific proof for the naysayers.

You're right, it is only ourselves stopping us from succeeding. There definitely should be more writers, we just need to spark the interest in the first place. In addition to relearning our history and reaffirming our culture, I think it would be helpful for more people to be knowledgeable of world events, local issues and politics.



It is sad the limited knowledge some Filipinos have about Filipino culture. 1, head hunting from my understanding is limited to the mountain groups in Luzon. 2nd, it's nothing to be embarrassed about. Do you watch movies about Native Americans? I love watching these types of movies, they are presented as very noble & brave people. Even films like Apocalypto present them as a very fierce survival type of people (there is a lot of positivity even in such films), in fact many have crushes on the Halcones due to that movie alone. Imagine that! LOL! Filipinos should take note how America depicts its own native population, we can learn from them & extract what can be used in a Filipino mindset (basta wag gaya gaya ha?) our indigenous culture.

I agree with most of what you say, except one. I have been researching for a long time, misinformation & ignorance can be even more dangerous IMO.

Those naysayers are mostly intentional haters/trolls, they say what they say to get under your skin. They want us to be affected & say something stupid to make ourselves look bad. We shouldn't fall for it. Kung lahat ba tayo nagfifilipino nalang or nagsusulat ng baybayin, ok sana. Para ang mga problema at away away natin, hindi lumalabas at nabibisto ng mga dayuhan. Honestly, you go to a ghetto neighborhood, do you expect those types of people to act with manners & breeding? no. Same with posters here who malign Filipinos, it reflects their background, mga ghetto mga yan, so ba't natin sila papatulan?

I do agree it is vital to be knowledgeable but it's even more vital that you understand & are knowledgeable with true facts/science, not false ones.
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AnybodyKiller
post Feb 21 2012, 10:18 PM
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QUOTE (nenabunena @ Feb 21 2012, 08:42 PM) *
It is sad the limited knowledge some Filipinos have about Filipino culture. 1, head hunting from my understanding is limited to the mountain groups in Luzon. 2nd, it's nothing to be embarrassed about. Do you watch movies about Native Americans? I love watching these types of movies, they are presented as very noble & brave people. Even films like Apocalypto present them as a very fierce survival type of people (there is a lot of positivity even in such films), in fact many have crushes on the Halcones due to that movie alone. Imagine that! LOL! Filipinos should take note how America depicts its own native population, we can learn from them & extract what can be used in a Filipino mindset (basta wag gaya gaya ha?) our indigenous culture.

I agree with most of what you say, except one. I have been researching for a long time, misinformation & ignorance can be even more dangerous IMO.

Those naysayers are mostly intentional haters/trolls, they say what they say to get under your skin. They want us to be affected & say something stupid to make ourselves look bad. We shouldn't fall for it. Kung lahat ba tayo nagfifilipino nalang or nagsusulat ng baybayin, ok sana. Para ang mga problema at away away natin, hindi lumalabas at nabibisto ng mga dayuhan. Honestly, you go to a ghetto neighborhood, do you expect those types of people to act with manners & breeding? no. Same with posters here who malign Filipinos, it reflects their background, mga ghetto mga yan, so ba't natin sila papatulan?

I do agree it is vital to be knowledgeable but it's even more vital that you understand & are knowledgeable with true facts/science, not false ones.

Oh definitely! Nothing wrong with it at all, that's just not all there is. Many Fil-Ams relish and are in love with this type of culture and identity.Example

Good point we shouldn't give those kinds of people the time of day. Yeah, AF is full of trolls who just like to go around 'prank posting' people to laugh at emotional responses. Not only Filipinos but all Southeast Asians are seen as having inferiority complexes.

Yeah, It's important to only state facts and not get carried away. If you state something as fact that people later discover is blatantly false, you will lose credibility. I am also guilty of sometimes portraying my theories in too much of a 'matter of fact' light.
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nenabunena
post Feb 21 2012, 10:32 PM
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QUOTE (AnybodyKiller @ Feb 22 2012, 11:18 AM) *
Oh definitely! Nothing wrong with it at all, that's just not all there is. Many Fil-Ams relish and are in love with this type of culture and identity.Example


I think a lot of Filipinos are feeling this too. But I'm a bit concerned with how these tattoos are earned. In the past, it was a matter of prestige & privilege to gain these tattoos. You have to earn them to wear them proudly. If they lose the integrity & prestige behind the earning of the tattoos, doesn't it lessen the inherent value of said tattoo? Perhaps they could be incorporated in certain events/feats, ie. in our military perhaps or in our own FMA, you earn them when a level is reached. Wouldn't that make these tattooing tradition more prestigious?

I had read somewhere that there was a group that promoted Filipino tattoos but what they were doing was hijacking Polynesian tattoos, do you remember the name of the group? Nakakahiya naman.
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AnybodyKiller
post Feb 22 2012, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE (nenabunena @ Feb 21 2012, 09:32 PM) *
I think a lot of Filipinos are feeling this too. But I'm a bit concerned with how these tattoos are earned. In the past, it was a matter of prestige & privilege to gain these tattoos. You have to earn them to wear them proudly. If they lose the integrity & prestige behind the earning of the tattoos, doesn't it lessen the inherent value of said tattoo? Perhaps they could be incorporated in certain events/feats, ie. in our military perhaps or in our own FMA, you earn them when a level is reached. Wouldn't that make these tattooing tradition more prestigious?

I had read somewhere that there was a group that promoted Filipino tattoos but what they were doing was hijacking Polynesian tattoos, do you remember the name of the group? Nakakahiya naman.


People just get them because they look cool most of the time. It's very expensive to get a more authentic one that tells your story and accomplishments. I think it would be great if we could incorporate more cultural meaning behind the tattoos rather than just get whatever looks good etc. Reminds me of this one time a Nicoraguan friend of mine asked a friend of ours who is Filipino with a tribal tattoo "what tribe are you from?" in a kind of condescending way. My friend answered "I'm Visayan, what tribe is your family from?" My Hispanic friend couldn't answer. Some people take the true meaning of these tattoos to heart, while most wear them as a fashion statement or accessory.

Ridiculous. How can Filipinos hijack Polynesian tattoos when they got the tattooing aspect of their culture from Austronesians in the first place? embarassedlaugh.gif
I guess I could see their point though in that Filipinos who don't know the true meaning of say Samoan tattoos get them on a whim.
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nenabunena
post Feb 22 2012, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (AnybodyKiller @ Feb 22 2012, 03:44 PM) *
People just get them because they look cool most of the time. It's very expensive to get a more authentic one that tells your story and accomplishments. I think it would be great if we could incorporate more cultural meaning behind the tattoos rather than just get whatever looks good etc. Reminds me of this one time a Nicoraguan friend of mine asked a friend of ours who is Filipino with a tribal tattoo "what tribe are you from?" in a kind of condescending way. My friend answered "I'm Visayan, what tribe is your family from?" My Hispanic friend couldn't answer. Some people take the true meaning of these tattoos to heart, while most wear them as a fashion statement or accessory.

Ridiculous. How can Filipinos hijack Polynesian tattoos when they got the tattooing aspect of their culture from Austronesians in the first place? embarassedlaugh.gif
I guess I could see their point though in that Filipinos who don't know the true meaning of say Samoan tattoos get them on a whim.



Yeah, I guess that's the way modernity is, I just wish we can preserve the value & precedents behind it you know? I mean, wouldn't it be beyond cool for our FMA practitioners to get a tattoo for the recognition of their achievements & based on their level? Instead of a belt, you get a particular tribal tattoo? lol!

I had a professor who was very offended when asked what tribe he was from. But your friend gave a good answer, sometimes people don't mean to be offensive though When they say tribe, sometimes they mean ethnic group.

Well Polynesians are Austronesians & they did get it from the Austronesians in Asia but there are differences in their tattooing to ours. despite a commonality of being Austronesians & some shared culture, we are still different culturally as our histories, so when you present a Filipino tattoo using tattoos of other ethnic groups/nations, then it's not genuine in being Filipino is it? Similar to how Chinese are different from Koreans & Japanese, there is a shared link but they are still different. A Chinese wearing a kimono saying it's Chinese would not be honest. Polynesians I read are very proud of who they are, they don't like other cultures hijacking what is uniquely their's. Besides, I don't think there is a need for us to hijack some else's culture, our's is rich & interesting enough to be proud of I think.

But sometimes I also go to stalls here where they supposedly sell Filipino products. 1 which I bought being sold as Filipino was a red Native American dreamcatcher earings! YIKES! So I guess it's not just a problem with tattooing. But I wonder how those dreamcatchers can be misassumed by Filipinos to be native? Weren't there 2 Native American tribes brought to the Philippines? Maybe those dreamcatchers came from them? I see dreamcatchers everywhere here being sold as Native.

I found a good book on Amazon about Filipino tattooing & native medicines. I wish we had our own Amazon here in the Philippines!

This post has been edited by nenabunena: Feb 22 2012, 07:07 PM
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trismegistos
post Feb 22 2012, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (nenabunena @ Feb 17 2012, 02:07 PM) *
That is true but that is not the point, the point is you have no standing or credibility in the scientific community to question or tackle the theories brought forward. The ones who are in such a position to do so have merit because they have earned it through serious study, in other words they have degrees. I think you may think too little of both archaeology & linguistics that you assume any person off the street with no college education, masteral degree, phd are equipped to challenge such theories. If you are serious with challenging these scholars who have studied for years on the subject at hand, then take your hypothesis off internet frums, get a degree in archaeology & linguistics & challenge them.

Everyone is free to make their own opinions, fabricated or not, but as people we need to be rational & take responsibility with intentional misinformation or misrepresentation of self & data.

Yes, go ahead shoot the messenger and not the message. Ok, I take responsibility for all the misinfo and disinfo presented. embarassedlaugh.gif

I have said I am not an academician but a mere researcher. I have presented various theories alternative like that of Oppenheimer, Solheim, Manansala, Martin Richards et al quite opposing to the accepted theories presented by the mainsstream orthodox academician like Bellwood et al.

I have also formed an intelligent opinion whom you labeled as misrepresentation or misinfo. To each his own. Instead of presenting dissenting facts and evidence, you keep on insisting I have no high ground. When my foundations are those theories mentioned above. I know my sciences. I can debate with so called authoritarian figures if they come in here. I am willing to present my case. Yes, humility is not my virtue. embarassedlaugh.gif

And humility is not an Austronesian virtue it is universal. But we Filipinos have been subservient to accept any theories presented by foreigners and accept them as a bible without questioning the validity.
QUOTE
Linguistics & archarology both belong to social sciences, they are not exact, therefore one should be all the more prudent, careful, exact & strict with their research & proclamations. That is the very point I am trying to make. We cannot afford to be careless in such a subject. Also, your presentations are not theories but mere hypothesis. A theory is dependent & subjected to scientific scrutiny & method. None of us is capable of subjecting such hypothesis to tests, these hypothesis are all interesting. But be logical & rationale, you need to test such ideas & see where & if they stand for them to hold any water or weight. I can make any proclamations like we are all aliens from the planet Marduk, but without a serious study & test imposed upon it, it is all empty conjecture out of people's imagination.

I have enough scientific background to scrutinize the so called scientific studies, scrutinizing their methodology and interpretation. Humility aside. icon_smile.gif

QUOTE
Now, you bring the topic back to Out of Taiwan theory which has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. Almost every thread here is devoted to posters/trolls/haters dedication to Filipino genes, yet no one cares to talk about Filipino culture, history, sociology, politics, etc. I have avoided every troll baited thread here, please don't relegate this thread into another Aeta/Korean/NE Asian thread. & this will be my last response to any post of yours unrelated to the discussion at hand.

I can't help to mention our indigeonous tribes genotypic signatures to buttress my point(Sundaland is Eden) sorry.

QUOTE
Fine. SO you have to threads & many more here dedicated to your interest, why try to steer this thread into another one of those? We don't need every thread to be about genes of Filipinos. Let's have a few threads about our culture & history shall we?

I just answered what I was asked nothing more. Read my posts. This is AF, the land of trolls and spammers. Off topics comments is what spice the discussions. And this has been the norm without any mod controlling the discussion and it has been like that even before as long as I remember. You can ask the mod to ban me if you like.



QUOTE
Maybe maybe maybe? Maybe all Filipino languages are in fact Romance languages or Sinitic? Come on. I think I will rely more on experts/professionals with years of serious study under their belts than some poster on an internet site. Please don't be offended, but remember 'humility is not only a virtue, it is rationale.' Please be rationale, why should one listen to a person just learning to count over a mathematician?

I can remember an expert linguist here before posting and he classified Sambalic languages as older and Tagalog language as 3rd generation younger.

QUOTE
Paul Manansala himself is open to the study & expert opinions of others. Read the quote I posted above. He has since reanalysed these points. & you are putting words into his mouth. Again, please don't make this thread into another Aeta thread or Out of Taiwan vs Sunda thread. Like you said, you have many threads here already dedicated to that subject.

Wrong, I am not putting words into his mouth. To him Eden is Sundaland and the axis mundi is in Sambalic areas. He pointed out the exact location of Eden's bearings...

from his site...


Eden's bearings
http://sambali.blogspot.com/2005/03/edens-bearings.html

Location of Eden, and Manansala's axis mundi
http://sambali.blogspot.com/search/label/Eden

Agains sorry for the various offtopics.

Going back to topic.
@silangan;
Regarding Pangasinense as originally an inland language going coastal. The Cordilleran people particlularly the builders of the Rice terraces have oral traditions that they were originally a lowland people. Some linguists even pointed their connections to the Sambalic languages as root as well as the Kagayan languages are related to the Sambalic languages themselves.
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nenabunena
post Feb 24 2012, 06:29 AM
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Tris, you can't even follow a simple discourse, you make unconnected correlations & you use an archaic & flawed research method. How do you expect me to take you seriously? You don't even know what Menansala is saying because you apply a tabloid mentality of cut & paste instead of reading everything on his blog in context. But like I said, you want to hijack the thread, go ahead. I won't stop you into making this another one of your Austronesian/Ita threads.
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trismegistos
post Jun 7 2012, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE (nenabunena @ Feb 24 2012, 06:29 AM) *
Tris, you can't even follow a simple discourse, you make unconnected correlations & you use an archaic & flawed research method. How do you expect me to take you seriously? You don't even know what Menansala is saying because you apply a tabloid mentality of cut & paste instead of reading everything on his blog in context. But like I said, you want to hijack the thread, go ahead. I won't stop you into making this another one of your Austronesian/Ita threads.

ad hominem. ha ha
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