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History of Chinese South Africans, kind of sad....
devils666
post Feb 19 2012, 08:14 AM
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QUOTE
Early History


According to Melanie Yap and Daniel Leong Man in their book "Colour, Confusions and Concessions: the History of Chinese in South Africa", Chu Ssu-pen, a Chinese mapmaker, in 1320 had southern Africa drawn on one of his maps. Ceramics found in Zimbabwe and South Africa dated back to Song dynasty China. Some tribes to Cape Town's north claimed descent from Chinese sailors during the 1200s, their physical appearance is similar to Chinese with paler skin and a Mandarin sounding tonal language. Their name for themselves is "abandoned people", Awatwa in their language.[5]

First Settlers

Around 4200 mine workers at the Simmer and Jack mine on the Witwatersrand, taken between 1904 and 1910.
There were many complicated reasons why the British chose to import Chinese labour to use on the mines. After the Anglo-Boer War production on the gold mines of the Witwatersrand was very low due to a lack of labour. The British government was eager to get these mines back online as quickly as possible as part of their overall effort to rebuild the war torn country.

Because of the war, unskilled black labourers had returned to rural areas and were more inclined to work on rebuilding infrastructure as mining was more dangerous. Unskilled white labour was being phased out because it was deemed too expensive. The British found recruiting and importing labour from east Asia the most expedient way to solve this problem.[4]:104

Between 1904 and 1910 over 63,000 contracted miners were brought in to work the mines of the Witwatersrand. Most of these contractors were recruited from the provinces of Chihli (Zhili), Shantung (Shandong) and Honan (Henan) in China.[4]:105 They were repatriated after 1910,[1][9] because of strong White opposition to their presence, similar to anti-Asian sentiments in the western United States, particularly California at the same time.[10] It is a myth that the contracted miners brought into South Africa at this time are the forefathers of much of South Africa's Chinese population.[4]:103-104

The mass importation of Chinese labourers to work on the gold mines contributed to the fall from power of the conservative government in the United Kingdom. However it did stimulate to the economic recovery of South Africa after the Anglo-Boer War by once again making the mines of the Witwatersrand the most productive gold mines in the world.[4]:103

[edit] Early Apartheid Era (1950-1970)

As with other non-White South Africans, the Chinese suffered from discrimination during apartheid, and were often classified as Coloureds,[11] but sometimes as Asians, a category that was generally reserved for Indian South Africans. Today this segment of the South African Chinese population numbers some 10,000 individuals.[1]

Under the apartheid-era Population Registration Act of 1950, Chinese South Africans were first deemed "Asiatic," then "Coloured," and finally:


the Chinese Group, which shall consist of persons who in fact are, or who, except in the case of persons who in fact are members of a race or class or tribe referred to in paragraph (1), (2), (3), (5) or (6) are generally accepted as members of a race or tribe whose national home is in China.[12]

In 1966 the South African Institute of Race Relations described the negative affects of apartheid legislation on the South African Chinese community as well as the resulting brain drain in the following way:


No group is treated so inconsistently under South Africa's race legislation. Under the Immorality Act they are Non-White. The Group Areas Act says they are Coloured, subsection Chinese ... They are frequently mistaken for Japanese in public and have generally used White buses, hotels, cinemas and restaurants. But in Pretoria, only the consul-general's staff may use White buses .. Their future appears insecure and unstable. Because of past and present misery under South African laws, and what seems like more to come in the future, many Chinese are emigrating. Like many Coloured people who are leaving the country, they seem to favour Canada. Through humiliation and statutory discrimination South Africa is frustrating and alienating what should be a prized community.

Immigration from Taiwan

With the establishment of ties between apartheid South Africa and the Republic of China (Taiwan), Taiwanese Chinese (as well as some Hong Kong Chinese) started migrating to South Africa from the late 1970s onwards. Due to apartheid South Africa's desire to attract their investment in South Africa and the many poorer Bantustans within the country they were exempt from many apartheid laws and regulations. This created an odd situation whereby Chinese South Africans from the mainland continued to be classified as Coloureds or Asians, whereas the Taiwanese Chinese[13] and certain other east Asian immigrants (esp. South Koreans and Japanese) were considered "honorary whites"[3] and enjoyed most, if not all, of the rights accorded to White South Africans.

The South African government also offered a number of economic incentives to investors from Taiwan seeking to set up factories and businesses in the country. These generous incentives ranged from 'paying for relocation costs, subsidized wages for seven years, subsidized commercial rent for ten years, housing loans, cheap transport of goods to urban areas, and favorable exchange rates.'[7]

In 1984, South African Chinese, now increased to about 10,000, finally obtained the same official rights as the Japanese in South Africa, that is, to be treated as whites in terms of the Group Areas Act. (Sanctions and Honorary White, Masako Osada)The arrival of the Taiwanese resulted in a surge of the ethnic Chinese population of South Africa, which climbed from around 10,000 in the early 1980s to at least 20,000 in the early 1990s. Many Taiwanese were entrepreneurs who set up small companies, particularly in the textile sector, across South Africa. It is estimated that by the end of the early 1990s Taiwanese industrialists had invested US$2 billion (or US$2,94 billion in 2011 dollars[14]) in South Africa and employed roughly 50,000 people.[4]:427

In the late 1990s and early first decade of the 21st century many of the Taiwanese immigrants left South Africa partly due to official recognition of the Peoples Republic of China and a post apartheid crime wave that swept the country. Numbers dropped from a high of around 30,000 Taiwanese South Africans in the mid-1990s to the current population of approximately 6,000 today.[1]

Black Economic Empowerment ruling

Under apartheid, some Chinese South Africans were discriminated against in various forms by the apartheid government. However, they were originally excluded from benefiting under the affirmative action programmes of the South African government.[11] This changed in mid-2008 when, in a case brought by the Chinese Association of South Africa, the Pretoria division of the High Court of South Africa ruled that Chinese South Africans who were South African citizens before 1994, as well as their descendants, qualify as previously disadvantaged individuals as Coloureds,[3] and therefore are eligible to benefit under BEE and other affirmative action policies and programmes. However, Chinese South Africans who immigrated to the country after 1994 will be ineligible to benefit under the policies. This means that out of a community numbering possibly as many as 300,000, only about 12-15,000 will directly benefit from the ruling.[3]


Isn't it sad how mainland Chinese are still treated like crap compared to other Chinese groups? This Apartheid/western racist heirarchy is still prevalant today and no one cares that mainlanders are still viewed as inferior while other Asians are given "honorary White status" (which they embrace). No wonder Africans and other "coloreds" find more solidarity with the PRC.

Looking at history, it saddens me that Chinese people (mainland, HK, Taiwan, overseas) are so divided and will easily sell each other out even today. We still haven't unified even after all the struggling.

Some people say that the PRC isn't the "real China", but all the suffering and discrimination has been aimed at mainlanders throughout history - they are the ones who bled. If suffering and "eating bitter fruits" isn't being Chinese, than I don't know what is.

This post has been edited by devils666: Feb 19 2012, 08:26 AM
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Edinburgh
post Feb 19 2012, 09:16 AM
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As Marx would have told you, this is largely to do with economic class.

Japanese, Korean, Taiwan/HK Chinese were richer so treated as 'white'.
Mainland Chinese were poor so treated as 'coloured'.

You lament the lack of 'solidarity' among Chinese but China is far too vast to be unified in a monolithic manner like Japan or Korea. Economic and political differences contribute a lot of this 'disunity'.

The conceptions of what constitutes 'Chinese culture' are completely different in HK, Taiwan, Guangdong, Sichuan, Beijing, Shanghai, Harbin are extremely different; only a bare skeleton of cultural features (Chinese festivals, Confucian values, Chinese language) holds the Sinosphere together.

This is not dissimilar to Europe - there is a common 'core' of European culture but there are also differences.

This post has been edited by Edinburgh: Feb 19 2012, 09:30 AM
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devils666
post Feb 19 2012, 09:22 AM
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QUOTE (Edinburgh @ Feb 19 2012, 10:16 AM) *
As Marx would have told you, this is largely to do with economic class.

Japanese, Korean, Taiwan/HK Chinese were richer so treated as 'white'.
Mainland Chinese were poor so treated as 'coloured'.


This also has to do with Western "divide and conquer" politics. During Apartheid S. Africa (when Whites still ruled), Japan, Korea, HK, and Taiwan were favored by Western White people because of their allegiance/subjugation to the west and perceived "democracy". Basically those that worship Western ideals and are willing to be 'lapdogs" will get preferential treatment. According to european eugenics "scientists", Japanese and Koreans are viewed as "lighter skinned" and "whiter" than other "mud" Asians - with Japanese being the most superior of course.

This post has been edited by devils666: Feb 19 2012, 09:28 AM
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devils666
post Feb 19 2012, 09:40 AM
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QUOTE (Edinburgh @ Feb 19 2012, 09:16 AM) *
You lament the lack of 'solidarity' among Chinese but China is far too vast to be unified in a monolithic manner like Japan or Korea. Economic and political differences contribute a lot of this 'disunity'.

The conceptions of what constitutes 'Chinese culture' are completely different in HK, Taiwan, Guangdong, Sichuan, Beijing, Shanghai, Harbin are extremely different; only a bare skeleton of cultural features (Chinese festivals, Confucian values, Chinese language) holds the Sinosphere together.

This is not dissimilar to Europe - there is a common 'core' of European culture but there are also differences.


Does that make discrimination and prejudice against mainland Chinese right? I'm not just talking about political unity, but also brotherly love, compassion, and empathy.

Compared to Europeans, Asians are far more homogenous and "monolithic", yet an Asian "EU" has yet to happen. Look at America and how vastly different all the people are - yet America has forcefully unified everyone from Anglos to Hawaiians.

The White population is bigger than the Chinese population if you count all overseas europeans, Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, etc...yet, they are pretty much unified and view each other equally. Why can't Chinese do the same? Why are Chinese so self-hating?
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CRYPT
post Feb 19 2012, 09:51 AM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Feb 19 2012, 09:22 AM) *
This also has to do with Western "divide and conquer" politics. During Apartheid S. Africa (when Whites still ruled), Japan, Korea, HK, and Taiwan were favored by Western White people because of their allegiance/subjugation to the west and perceived "democracy". Basically those that worship Western ideals and are willing to be 'lapdogs" will get preferential treatment. According to european eugenics "scientists", Japanese and Koreans are viewed as "lighter skinned" and "whiter" than other "mud" Asians - with Japanese being the most superior of course.


Actually, the Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese, etc... were seen as helpless and "childlike" in need of the big, white man to save them. Because China rejected the white helping hand, the white man is furious and tries to turn other Asians on Chinese.
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Edinburgh
post Feb 19 2012, 10:24 AM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Feb 19 2012, 02:40 PM) *
Does that make discrimination and prejudice against mainland Chinese right? I'm not just talking about political unity, but also brotherly love, compassion, and empathy.

The White population is bigger than the Chinese population if you count all overseas europeans, Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, etc...yet, they are pretty much unified and view each other equally. Why can't Chinese do the same? Why are Chinese so self-hating?


No of course it doesn't make it right, I was just explaining why it occurs.

Most Chinese are poor, and people of all colours like to look down on poor people.

By the way, don't forget that rich white people look down on poor white people as well.

Do you think a white New York/SF liberal wants to have anything to do with an obese 'white trash' in Alabama?
White Hampstead London liberals wouldn't want anything to do with white chavs, either.

'White' nations are comparatively rich so there are no possibilities for the sort of HK/TW vs Mainlander hatred (it did exist in past centuries in Europe).
(Eastern Europe is the poorest white region yet its still above world average.)

If China became as rich as the west there would be less 'hating' amongst Chinese (HK/TW vs Mainland) but classism would still exist.
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devils666
post Feb 19 2012, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE (Edinburgh @ Feb 19 2012, 10:24 AM) *
No of course it doesn't make it right, I was just explaining why it occurs.

Most Chinese are poor, and people of all colours like to look down on poor people.

By the way, don't forget that rich white people look down on poor white people as well.

Do you think a white New York/SF liberal wants to have anything to do with an obese 'white trash' in Alabama?
White Hampstead London liberals wouldn't want anything to do with white chavs, either.

'White' nations are comparatively rich so there are no possibilities for the sort of HK/TW vs Mainlander hatred (it did exist in past centuries in Europe).
(Eastern Europe is the poorest white region yet its still above world average.)

If China became as rich as the west there would be less 'hating' amongst Chinese (HK/TW vs Mainland) but classism would still exist.


Is this elitism and classism a result of western influence? Is it just a coincidence that these Arpartheid rules coincide with the current Western notions of Asians? Is it just a coincidence that these categorizations coincide with Western politics?

China would never have been split if not for Western "intervention" in Asia. Africa would never have been split into 50+ states if not for western "intervention".
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Edinburgh
post Feb 19 2012, 11:02 AM
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If western imperialism hadn't occurred in China:

- Japanese imperialism would still have happened (leading to divisions)
- China would still have remained poor and backward (Imperial China isn't exactly 'prosperous' compared to China today)

Don't forget that by the 19th Century, Qing China was backward compared to the west and closed to the industrialising outside world. Japan was less insular than China and adopted western science and technology in the 19th Century which is why it managed to become the first industrialised nation in Asia.

This post has been edited by Edinburgh: Feb 19 2012, 11:04 AM
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devils666
post Feb 19 2012, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE (Edinburgh @ Feb 19 2012, 12:02 PM) *
If western imperialism hadn't occurred in China:

- Japanese imperialism would still have happened (leading to divisions)
- China would still have remained poor and backward (Imperial China isn't exactly 'prosperous' compared to China today)

Don't forget that by the 19th Century, Qing China was backward compared to the west and closed to the industrialising outside world. Japan was less insular than China and adopted western science and technology in the 19th Century which is why it managed to become the first industrialised nation in Asia.


Funny how Westerners always forget history before WWII. Japan militarized and became fascist as a RESPONSE to growing Western involvement/imperialism in Asia. France had taken Vietnam, China was colonized by different foreign factions, Indonesia for the dutch, Singapore, Siam, etc...

It's true that Asians have had many wars against each other, but they were usually resolved and let to a peaceful resolution. Europeans have also warred against each other many times. If the West had never colonzied Asia, then the East would be much like the EU is now.
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Edinburgh
post Feb 19 2012, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Feb 19 2012, 04:13 PM) *
Funny how Westerners always forget history before WWII. Japan militarized and became fascist as a RESPONSE to growing Western involvement/imperialism in Asia. France had taken Vietnam, China was colonized by different foreign factions, Indonesia for the dutch, Singapore, Siam, etc...

It's true that Asians have had many wars against each other, but they were usually resolved and let to a peaceful resolution. Europeans have also warred against each other many times. If the West had never colonzied Asia, then the East would be much like the EU is now.


Even if there was zero western imperialism in Asia, Japanese imperialism would still have manifested since they needed resources from China to fuel their industrialisation, and because Japanese fascists believed Japanese were destined to rule over other Asians (just like Nazis thought 'Aryans' should control Europe):

QUOTE
Once the wind of Western civilization blows to the East, every blade of grass and every tree in the East follow what the Western wind brings... The spread of civilization is like the measles... In my view, these two countries [China and Korea] cannot survive as independent nations with the onslaught of Western civilization to the East... It is not different from the case of the righteous man living in a neighborhood of a town known for foolishness, lawlessness, atrocity, and heartlessness. His action is so rare that it is always buried under the ugliness of his neighbors' activities... We do not have time to wait for the enlightenment of our neighbors so that we can work together toward the development of Asia. It is better for us to leave the ranks of Asian nations and cast our lot with civilized nations of the West... Those [who] are intimate with bad friends are also regarded bad, therefore I will deny those bad Asian friends from my heart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsu-A_Ron
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AsiaticGlory
post Feb 19 2012, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Feb 19 2012, 08:40 AM) *
Does that make discrimination and prejudice against mainland Chinese right? I'm not just talking about political unity, but also brotherly love, compassion, and empathy.

Compared to Europeans, Asians are far more homogenous and "monolithic", yet an Asian "EU" has yet to happen. Look at America and how vastly different all the people are - yet America has forcefully unified everyone from Anglos to Hawaiians.

The White population is bigger than the Chinese population if you count all overseas europeans, Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, etc...yet, they are pretty much unified and view each other equally. Why can't Chinese do the same? Why are Chinese so self-hating?


Asians are racially more homogeneous than Europeans but Asian cultures are more diverse. European countries are all influenced by Greco-Roman civilization and the Christian religion. With the exception of Hungary and Finland, white people all speak an Indo-European language.

Asians, however, speak three different language families, follow different religions, and are influenced by different cultural groups. Other than physical appearance, it is actually very difficult to find common ground for Asians to unite. If we go by culture, we would have the Sinosphere (East Asia and Vietnam) and Altaic nomadic (Central Asia, Mongolia, and Siberia).

Then you have the fact different groups of Asians got influenced by different foreign groups. India influenced Southeast Asians, Russia and the Middle East influenced Turkic people, Spain influenced Filipinos, etc. If you think about it, us Asians are becoming more divided because outside groups force their cultures onto us. You have Kazakhs who speak Russian and worship Allah, Filipinos who speak Spanish and follow the Catholic Church, Yakuts who speak Russian and follow Eastern Orthodox, Nagas who are being assimilated by India, South Koreans who are converting to Christianity, etc.

I think Asians are more tolerant of foreign culture so that probably explains why Asian cultures seem more diverse. Different Asian ethnic groups didn't force their culture onto other Asian groups. As for whites, they have a history of forcing their cultures on each other from Rome's persecution of Christians to Medieval Europe's force conversion of Pagans to Christianity. Chinese and Altaic nomads might hate each other but they didn't really force their culture on each other.

Ironically, the fact Asians tolerated the cultural differences of each other made it harder for Asians to unite.

America is able to unite everyone forcibly because America is an industrialized military power. Usually large diverse countries like America are very fragile. They can only survive if they have a strong military and a high standard of living. When America becomes a poor country, it will fracture into smaller countries that will initially fight each other violently until the new borders are established.

This post has been edited by AsiaticGlory: Feb 19 2012, 12:23 PM
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post Feb 19 2012, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE (AsiaticGlory @ Feb 19 2012, 12:22 PM) *
Asians are racially more homogeneous than Europeans but Asian cultures are more diverse. European countries are all influenced by Greco-Roman civilization and the Christian religion. With the exception of Hungary and Finland, white people all speak an Indo-European language.

Asians, however, speak three different language families, follow different religions, and are influenced by different cultural groups. Other than physical appearance, it is actually very difficult to find common ground for Asians to unite. If we go by culture, we would have the Sinosphere (East Asia and Vietnam) and Altaic nomadic (Central Asia, Mongolia, and Siberia).

Then you have the fact different groups of Asians got influenced by different foreign groups. India influenced Southeast Asians, Russia and the Middle East influenced Turkic people, Spain influenced Filipinos, etc. If you think about it, us Asians are becoming more divided because outside groups force their cultures onto us. You have Kazakhs who speak Russian and worship Allah, Filipinos who speak Spanish and follow the Catholic Church, Yakuts who speak Russian and follow Eastern Orthodox, Nagas who are being assimilated by India, South Koreans who are converting to Christianity, etc.

I think Asians are more tolerant of foreign culture so that probably explains why Asian cultures seem more diverse. Different Asian ethnic groups didn't force their culture onto other Asian groups. As for whites, they have a history of forcing their cultures on each other from Rome's persecution of Christians to Medieval Europe's force conversion of Pagans to Christianity. Chinese and Altaic nomads might hate each other but they didn't really force their culture on each other.

Ironically, the fact Asians tolerated the cultural differences of each other made it harder for Asians to unite.

America is able to unite everyone forcibly because America is an industrialized military power. Usually large diverse countries like America are very fragile. They can only survive if they have a strong military and a high standard of living. When America becomes a poor country, it will fracture into smaller countries that will initially fight each other violently until the new borders are established.


I think Chinese have been to kind in regards to their treatment of their neighbors.
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Copenhagen
post Feb 19 2012, 07:38 PM
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It is not true that other Asians were given honorary white status. The apartheid affected everybody.

In the end however, it's the Chinese who are mining the benefits of Africa by sending our best engineers to build projects and making investments that Europeans and Americans are too dim to do themselves.
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devils666
post Feb 20 2012, 06:44 AM
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Can we please stay on topic? The fact that Chinese are still viewed as "colored" or inferior to other NEA's is a problem.
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Edinburgh
post Feb 20 2012, 06:49 AM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Feb 20 2012, 11:44 AM) *
Can we please stay on topic? The fact that Chinese are still viewed as "colored" or inferior to other NEA's is a problem.


That's because (mainland) Chinese are poor. People of all races look down on poor people (not that it's right to do so).

If China had an economy like Japan and Japan had an economy like China, Chinese would also look down on Japanese. That's how humans are, unfortunately.
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devils666
post Feb 20 2012, 07:19 AM
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QUOTE (Edinburgh @ Feb 20 2012, 06:49 AM) *
That's because (mainland) Chinese are poor. People of all races look down on poor people (not that it's right to do so).

If China had an economy like Japan and Japan had an economy like China, Chinese would also look down on Japanese. That's how humans are, unfortunately.


It's not just economics. You should really read up on eugenics and the racist history of europeans. Why is India treated better than China and given more respect in NEA than China? India is way poorer than China. Also, note that the article states that Indians were classified as "Asian" under apartheid, while Chinese were classified as "coloured" along with the Blacks.

This has a lot to do with the racist notion of "yellow peril" which dated back to before China's rise.
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CRYPT
post Feb 20 2012, 08:30 AM
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QUOTE (devils666 @ Feb 20 2012, 07:19 AM) *
It's not just economics. You should really read up on eugenics and the racist history of europeans. Why is India treated better than China and given more respect in NEA than China? India is way poorer than China. Also, note that the article states that Indians were classified as "Asian" under apartheid, while Chinese were classified as "coloured" along with the Blacks.

This has a lot to do with the racist notion of "yellow peril" which dated back to before China's rise.


Indians are technically Caucasian. The more lighter you are, the more caucasian blood you have in you.
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oolong
post Feb 21 2012, 12:30 AM
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What a huge load of crap i just read.
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devils666
post Feb 23 2012, 03:20 AM
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Now the West and NATO are still supporting this racist anti-Chinese mentality. China, S. America, and Africa knows what it's like to be targets for the West. All the White worshipping Asians that are inviting the White devil into our house should be ashamed.
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RheeSan21
post Feb 23 2012, 03:48 AM
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What I am not understand is how anyone, Japanese/Chinese whatever, would want to be consider "honorary white". Is such a betraying of their people to try and fitting in with the racist apartheid people. Do they forget what their heritage is? I know some people here is giving the reason that: the more money you is having, the more chance you will be given "honorary white" status.
But I am not care.
No matter how much money you is having, you will always be yellow. No one from Asian race should sell themself like this. It is make me amazed...
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