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The Lao, who are they, and where they came from?, Pre-Lan Xang kingdom
khobjaider
post Feb 22 2008, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE(Savan @ Jan 7 2008, 07:17 PM) [snapback]3409724[/snapback]
No, I don't think it's okay to use the term oriental for Asian. Keo, however, isn't used in a derogatory way, at least I don't think it is. It just means Vietnamese in the Lao language...just like how Jeen means Chinese in the Lao/Thai language....I don't think the Chinese refer to themselves as "Jeen".

If another Lao person thinks Keo is derogatory, then please correct me. However, since I'm assuming that Vietman was brought up in Vietnamese culture, his perception of the term Keo may be different from ours.


I m lao live in Laos.
In Laos, the word "Keo" sounds not nice.
Longtime ago, some old ppl might say "Khon Keo" to refer to vietnamese.
But now we almost dont use it now.
So when we call vietnamese, we better avoid saying "Keo". We might just say "Khon viet"

In Laos we call vietnamese "khon viet".
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khobjaider
post Feb 22 2008, 11:44 AM
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QUOTE(Manleow @ Jan 28 2008, 06:39 PM) [snapback]3456591[/snapback]
Nice = Not nice term

Jean > Jek

??? > Khamen ( I dont know wat other name Lao call Khmer ppl?)

Viet = Geow

Lao Soung = Meow
(hmong)

And NO, im dont have any Viet Blood. Im Tai Yuan and Tai Vieng < even though i think my Tai Vieng side is not orginally Tai Vieng, most likely they come from somewhere from the north also.

I read somewhere, that Vietnamese is not a pure race, but a mix race of ppl.



Currently in Laos, Lao ppl call khmer ppl, "Khon Kumpuchia" and "Kumpuchia" for the country name.
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Manleow
post Feb 22 2008, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE(khobjaider @ Feb 22 2008, 11:44 AM) [snapback]3516228[/snapback]
Currently in Laos, Lao ppl call khmer ppl, "Khon Kumpuchia" and "Kumpuchia" for the country name.

hahaha, ur kidding me right? Kumpuchia is what lao ppl say. first of all, if u know anything about Lao ppl, Kumpuchia is too long <<<< why do u think all the other reference is basicly short and to the point. lao ppl would not go through the trouble of saying Kon Kum-pu-ch-ia. maybe ur confused between what everyday ppl say, and what might be the official terms used by goverment officials, so of course officials would say Kumpuchia, but the average everyday conversation with regular Lao ppl, wouldnt say it as that.

also the average everyday Lao person in their homes and eating around drinking beer, still say "Keo" and not "Viet"
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khobjaider
post Feb 23 2008, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE(Manleow @ Feb 22 2008, 05:30 PM) [snapback]3516907[/snapback]
also the average everyday Lao person in their homes and eating around drinking beer, still say "Keo" and not "Viet"


Yeb, in that case u r right...
In Laos, perhaps ppl born before '70 still use it.
But among younger ppl or teenager they rarely use the word "Keo" now.
Cause sometimes it might sound in derogatory way.
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babyshanker
post Feb 23 2008, 05:01 PM
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QUOTE
But among younger ppl or teenager they rarely use the word "Keo" now.


Thats true, the new generation say Viet now.
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Starsgazer
post Feb 23 2008, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE(Manleow @ Feb 22 2008, 06:30 PM) [snapback]3516907[/snapback]
hahaha, ur kidding me right? Kumpuchia is what lao ppl say. first of all, if u know anything about Lao ppl, Kumpuchia is too long <<<< why do u think all the other reference is basicly short and to the point. lao ppl would not go through the trouble of saying Kon Kum-pu-ch-ia. maybe ur confused between what everyday ppl say, and what might be the official terms used by goverment officials, so of course officials would say Kumpuchia, but the average everyday conversation with regular Lao ppl, wouldnt say it as that.

also the average everyday Lao person in their homes and eating around drinking beer, still say "Keo" and not "Viet"


Kum=Barb=Sin that is what my Cambodia friend told me. She thinks it is unfortunate name for Khmer people; she thinks the name is the reason Khmer people went through a lot of pain and suffering events in history: lost of land to it's neighbors, the killing fields etc.
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Starsgazer
post Feb 23 2008, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE(khobjaider @ Feb 23 2008, 01:22 AM) [snapback]3517994[/snapback]
Yeb, in that case u r right...
In Laos, perhaps ppl born before '70 still use it.
But among younger ppl or teenager they rarely use the word "Keo" now.
Cause sometimes it might sound in derogatory way.


My Viet friend told me Keo mean poor, so the Viet people don't want to be label as such for the entire race of Viet people.
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Savan
post Feb 27 2008, 03:25 PM
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New Vertu Cell Phone-Buy Vertu Gsm-Vertu Online Shop
http://www.vipluxuryphones.com/new-vertu-c...products_id/666

This post has been edited by Savan: Aug 23 2012, 04:29 AM
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thamavong
post Feb 27 2008, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE(Savan @ Feb 27 2008, 03:25 PM) [snapback]3529619[/snapback]
yeah, Jek is considered derogatory...Jeen is the proper word to use.

As far as "Geo" vs. "Viet", I still don't understand how it's derogatory. What does "Geo" mean? It doesn't mean anything, but Vietnamese, right?

"Viet" is just a shortened version of "Vietnamese"...so the new pronunciation, "Viet", isn't all that creative.

It's kind of like how Burma's new name is Myanmar...so from now on, everyone is forbidden from calling them "Burmese", but rather "Myanmarnese"???? I think "Burmese" is so much easier to say...but are people now going to consider "Burmese" as a derogatory term just because the country is now called Myanmar?


well Jek is considered derogatory...Jeen is the proper word to use
same with Geo is considered derogatory...Geo is almost like insults word. viet is the proper word to use.

viet call themself viet but US or western call vietnamese.
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Sinthanonsay
post Apr 22 2008, 11:23 AM
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This is totally awesome! Conversing with fellow laotians. I teach Muay Thai in Steinbach, Manitoba Canada. I am employed as a Safety and Health Officer. What has been said here is of great importance to me and my family. I feel that everyone should know their history/ heritage and learn from it.

In my time at the University of Manitoba a course was offered in the studies of Southeast Asia and I jumped at the chance to be in that class. It opened my eyes to a whole new understanding of my culture.

My family escaped in the late 70's across the mekong river. And I haven't gone back to my homeland. Looking forward to go back within 2 years. I hope.

This my first time on a forum.

Sinthanonsay Outhaivong
SMO Muay Thai
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Preydominator
post Apr 22 2008, 11:47 AM
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Keo/Geo/Gao name for Vietnamese people come from Giao Chi (Jiaozhi commandery in Chinese record), a historical name for location around Hanoi. BTW on Thais chat, a Laos poster claim that only Tais people living in Giao Chi and not Vietnamese people. confused.gif

This post has been edited by Preydominator: Apr 22 2008, 11:52 AM
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ponsinh
post Apr 24 2008, 01:15 AM
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QUOTE(Buddhalove @ Jan 7 2008, 07:46 AM) [snapback]3407389[/snapback]
Western perspectives
Nippon = Japanese
Han = Chinese
Khmer = Cambodian

Lao perspectives
Japanese = Yee Poon
Cambodian = Kar Menh
Chinese = Jean
Viet = Keo
Hmong = Meo

I don't think is a derogatory? it has been going on for centuries.

Words that have been used for ages can become derogatory.
The words Keo and probably Meo would fall in this group.
As respect for our Vietnamese friends and Hmong friends, we should cease to refer to them as such and respect their wishes to be refered to as Viet.
I'm not too sure what the politically correct word to call a Hmong person would be.
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HalfAryan
post May 21 2008, 10:34 PM
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Lao people subservant to thais laugh.gif
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DeeJai
post May 21 2008, 10:37 PM
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Go fu-k yourself.
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beerlao
post Jun 5 2008, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE(HalfAryan @ May 21 2008, 10:34 PM) [snapback]3710948[/snapback]
Lao people subservant to thais laugh.gif


whaat is up with the haaate?! did this mofo get his/her @$$ kicked big time by some Laotians or somethin' or is it some white mofo tryin' to instigate... oooh heck! sick sad world. lemme go back to bein' true Lao n turn a blind eye to that dumbass pure ignorance.
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vihmapura
post Dec 23 2008, 08:07 PM
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I agree , these materials are full of craps .


Cochrane was White , he knew nothing about Chinese ,

Lao TZu was Chinese , Lao in Chinese means an old Man .

Lao Tzu or Lao Tze means an Old Man called Tze .


this has nothing to do the Lao people.






QUOTE(hygrozyme @ May 4 2007, 12:25 AM) [snapback]2922473[/snapback]
OMFG!!!!! This material is the biggest piece of bullcrap that i have ever read! This guy is flat out ignorant!

who would dare to quote such fraud material from Cochrane. "The Shans'. 'Library of Congress Cataloging in Publication Data', USA. 1915."

sorry guys im a bout to BARF now...

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vihmapura
post Dec 23 2008, 08:36 PM
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Viet Language or
Giao language was never affiliated to Khmer or Mon language .

Khmer language was affliliated to Mundi language from India .

Viet or Giao language has nothing to do with Khmer language .
Khmer language was from Sanskrit and Pali .


Giao or Viet has nothing to do with Sanskrit .



if Thai was from Daic ,

Kinh langauge was from where ?





QUOTE(NungTinbao @ Dec 9 2007, 04:39 AM) [snapback]3356872[/snapback]
I have seen that there are so less people who knows about opinions regarding the linguistic, genetic, and cultural relationship to the Yue(越)/Baiyue(百越) and Vietnamese.

I will tell something about Baiyue(百越) to our pi-nong gradually but pls forgive me if my respond is too involved or abstruse, because to learn daic history people will need to learn chinese history to better understand daic populations, and I am not good at English, it is a hard work for me. I can speak so many languages and dialects(6 idioms of Southern Zhuang and 2 idioms of Northern Zhuang, Mandarin, Gui-liu-hua which is a mandarin diaclect in Guangxi, Cantonese and Japanese and a little English) but English is worst to me because I learned it in Chinese middle school and high school only, and I stoped learning English after entering University and changed to learn Japanese as major. I give up using English more than 10 years and started to use it again from several days ago after joining this forum, how can I explain so difficult history questions to you in English, pi-nong? But I will try my best, 55555.

Linguistic researches in recent years has shown that, with general agreement among the field, that Vietnamese (or Kinh) belongs to the Mon-Khmer branch. It is also a common agreement that the "Yue" or “Bai-Yue” belongs to Tai-Kai languages. Bai(百)is hundred, Bai-Yue does not mean hundred Yue Tribes but means Very large Number of Yue Tribes. They are so many braches but their languages culture are all related and similar, they all belong to one language family---Yue.

Why so many western scholars and viet scholars say Vietnamese was from Baiyue or Yue? It was because Vietnamese were under the reign of the Yue people in northern Vietman especially Red River Delta at that time. Also when the ancient Han people from the north reached the Ling-Nan(岭南) region(Guangxi, Guangdong , Hainan and northern Viet at that time) it was impossible for them to have the knowledge what is a Tai langauge and what is a Mon-Khmer language. So it is very possible that they recorded a few words from a Mon-Khmer language in the reign of Yue people and regarded it as the language of Yue people themselves in mistake. Some scholars recommended those record and made many fairy tales that Vietnamese were from Yue. But in fact Baiyue people are all of Tai-Kaidai Languages and were distributed over all areas of south to Yangtze River(From present Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Jiangx, Fujian, Guangdong, Guangxi provinces to Red River Delta of Northern Vietnam). The ancestors of Viet(Kinh) never lived in the area near Yangtze River but they lived in the south part of Yue Region at that time.

In the official record of the Qing Dynasty, there was one mentioning that the King of Annan asked for the title of "Nan Yue King"(南越国王) from the Central Empire. While the official reply from the Central Empire is that "You are not the people of the Yue people, but the people at the south of the Yue people, so it is unsuitable to grant you the name "Nan Yue". Instead "Yue Nan" will be more suitable". So Yue-Nan(Vietnam) became the official name of the country of Kinh from that day. The Chinese have not always been calling the Kinh people Viet. As the frontier of the Sinitic culture pushed farther south and assimilated Daic populations , the word yue was applied to the territory we now consider Vietnam. NamViet is expressed by the two same ideographs used for 南越(Nan-Yue or Nam-Viet), but in reverse order. When translated Vietnam means "SOUTH TO YUE."

The Chinese have not always call Vietnamese as Viet. For a long time, Chinese people used "Jiaozhi" or “Jiao”. Zhuang people still call Vietnamese Geu(Giau), same as Lao, Thai, etc. All Daic populations call Vietnamese GIAO. It's Kinh that is stealing Daic history and claiming the wrong ancestors. The evidence is so clear. It was only since Vietnam was chosen as the country name that some people started to use Viet. Therefore, the name Viet is from the country name Kinh chose, it has nothing to do with ethnic origin. What's more, Viet is the Chinese pronounciation of Yue in Tang Dynasty, Yue population will not call them self as Viet, but Daic of the Han Dynasty pronounciation.

Today Vietnamese still think their ancestor was from the Yue state built from 1913 BC to 334 BC in present Zhejiang Province, or other Baiyue tribes near Yangtze River because they still do not understand the logic of linguistics,anthropology and Genetics. In SEAsia it is quite well-known that Vietnam doesn't have REAL scientific historical linguistic research. You can ask everyone in the annual SE Asia Linguistic Conference. They all know that, although not many of them willing to mention it due to a sense of politness. Vietnam has done many fieldwork researches, which most of them are very good jobs. But it is rather rare to hear Vietnamese linguists to work on historical linguistics which involves a lot of theoritical training.

Every Chinese linguist knows that Southern Chinese dialects have a Daic Substratum, why we do not see the same with Kinh? And every Chinese Linguist says Yue=Daic, its not even a question. In ancient China, the Chinese recorded the languages of Yang Yue, Min Yue, Yu Yue, Nan Yue. All of those languages are Daic. It would be ridiculous to say Yue is not Daic. Daic populations are numbering 25-30 million in southern China, why no Kinh besides the recent about 20 thousand Jing(京族Kinh) people migrants in only one county called Dongxing(东兴) in southern Guangxi border on Vietnam? Can we implying that all Kinh were assimilated but so many Daic still keep their language and culture? The Kinh people were never across North to Vietnam, those stories are myths and folktales.

"越人歌YUE-REN-GE(song of the Yue)" written in a very famous Chinese ancient book“Shuo-Yuan. Feng-Shi-Pian” 《说苑•奉使篇》which telling the story in 528 BC, it was singed by a Yue boatman from Yue state but at the border of Chu State, it is ancient Daic language and can be understood by all Daic scholars till today. Excavation from Liangzhu, and the many other neolithic cultures of China have proven they are also Daic.

The Bai-Yue are Daic people and no one can take that from Daic. That is our ancestors, that is from where we are from and birthed. Our relatives Zhuang, Bouyei, Dong(Kam), Shui(Sui), Mulao, Maonan and Li(Hlai) are still in present Lingnan Region(Guangxi, Guangdong, Hainan) where they have been over thousands of years.

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lengchai
post Jun 24 2009, 06:31 PM
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All i know is that they are related to the Zhuang people from southern China
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lengchai
post Jun 24 2009, 06:33 PM
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QUOTE (vihmapura @ Dec 23 2008, 09:07 PM) *
I agree , these materials are full of craps .


Cochrane was White , he knew nothing about Chinese ,

Lao TZu was Chinese , Lao in Chinese means an old Man .

Lao Tzu or Lao Tze means an Old Man called Tze .


this has nothing to do the Lao people.


In Hmong we say Yer Lao or old man. I think "lao" for old is a Mandarin word.
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hawniew
post Jun 28 2009, 05:27 AM
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QUOTE (vihmapura @ Dec 24 2008, 09:07 AM) *
I agree , these materials are full of craps .

, Lao in Chinese means an old Man .
Lao Tzu or Lao Tze means an Old Man called Tze .
this has nothing to do the Lao people.


yes,"lao zi" in Chinese is "Han China"-lao zi、 Confucius (Ancient religious names)
this has nothing to do the Laos people."lao"in China Zhuang nationality is " we"(our) mean.
Archeology and linguistics have proved Zhuang and Laos' Pu Lao 'is the ancient with the national

You can think of why China did not call the framework of the 'Lao' nation!
Claiming to be the Zhuang people (Lao=rao) because in the ancient nation called "pu lao" Now has been changed to Zhuang, formerly known as: bai yue-pu liao (rao)-xi ou \ luo yue-pu zhuang


Name"Lao"and"thai“-“zhuang[จ้วง](jong)-Is referred to several different places
For example,
Now has been changed to Zhuang, formerly known as: bai yue-pu liao (rao)-xi ou(luoyue)-pu zhuang
And "Zhuang" is the name of the Chinese people since, that is to say the name from other ethnic groups.

In Southeast Asia, Zhuang and Dai in Vietnam, nong, Laos, Lao, Thailand, Thai, Myanmar and India, the Shan Sutra Assam have the same root and source relations a total population of about 90 million more than a dozen ethnic groups, "are of the same origin of the nation, like a tree, after the growth of a number of years after the birth of many branches. above all ethnic groups, the root is the same, just different branches

This is not a person I am talking about. This is archeology, sociology, anthropology, linguistics, economics, culture and the arts, architecture, science and technology, education and other aspects of Thai traditional culture strong historical relationship between the results of the study were compared.


Zhuang people claiming to be "Pu"or"pu lao", was initially started from the language, because "Pu" in the language used in the higher frequency, so Han Chinese referred to as "PU." In fact, "Pu" (pu) is inside the strong words " people "meant. The" wave "(bo) s the" father ";" back "(bei) is the" elder brother ";" Cashmere "(mie) the" mother "; and his brother are called" nong. "

From the national self-view, the world most of the nation or tribe has its own name. These names are from other ethnic or a tribal symbol. Give the name of other nations is called, "he said," named after himself called the "claim." Dai claimed tai  2, Dai (old) text while claiming to fight Dai writing tjai; Thai claiming thai  2, HO writing Wenze fight thjai  2. Pingkai from their tone is transferred, the ancient sound is voiced djai  2. Sound claim to the ancient and Buyi, corresponding to Li's claim to be able to get on. Bouyei claiming to have the  NADE9  jai  4,  NADE9  ji  4, d  NADE0  ai  4, Li's claim to have  NADE2  ai  2, t  NADE2  ai  2, t  NADDE  ai  2. These claims and the Chinese characters "Yi" can also constitute a corresponding. According to Mr. Zhang Shangfang Cheng said: "Yi" li ancient sound level tone, and "plow" ri "ladder" hli word equivalent to the Department for the resin. "Yi", "di" sound at Qualcomm; high vowel i in Guangdong, Fujian Chinese dialects and more into Thai Dai ai. Historical records in Guizhou Buyi and Dai in Yunnan are also known as "Yi Bai", "razed before." 

Myanmar, known as the Shan shan, the Kingdom of Thailand over the past referred to as the Thai siam (that is, the Siam Siam). shan and siam was considered to be the result of sound change. This is not claiming the nation, but he said that Bangladesh and Myanmar is one of their call. China is now the Wa, Bulang,德昂族, Jingpo, Achang called Dai also called siam. This from another angle in Thai Dai arrived and has become a time when the advantages have been living in this early indigenous. They do not by themselves address Dai Dai Thai Thai, but named according to their own name later. 

Lao-old ethnic self-lao, is "after the Han • Nanban Biography" recorded in the Lingnan region, "Liao (lao)"; Zhuang, Li was recorded in ancient books of the Lingnan region, "Liao (lao)" "Li." In addition, Mr. Wan-Xing: Oracle "戉" as the name, Kim Moon-Wuyue the "more" only writing "戉," the more we can see is called the "more" because they create the "Yue" (a kind of ancient weapons) .
News has long been out
http://www.people.com.cn/GB/kejiao/42/154/...410/438552.html
http://www.google--it.com/thread-305-1-1.html

This post has been edited by hawniew: Jun 28 2009, 10:02 AM
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