Let's Learn Manchu! Options

[Kulong]

Manchurians didn't "exist" until around the 17th century. However, they are the descendents of the Jurchens and even earlier, the Khitans.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/khitan.htm

Khitan

Khitan scripts

Origin
The Khitan people, who dominated a large chunk of Manchuria between  916 and 1125 AD, used two different scripts - the "large  script", which came into use in about 920 AD, the "small  script", which was reputedly created in about 925 AD by the  Khitan scholar Diela, who was inspired by the Uighur alphabet.

The two scripts were used in parallel and appear to have little in  common in terms of the forms of the characters and the ways they were  assembled into compound characters.

Used to write
Khitan, an extinct Altaic language which was once spoken in Manchuria.

The "Large Script"
The "large script" was written in vertical columns running  from top to bottom and from right to left. Some of the characters were  taken from Chinese, while others were independent inventions.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/jurchen.htm

(IMG:http://www.omniglot.com/images/langnames/nm_jurchen.gif)
Jurchen

The Jurchen script, which is also known as Jurchi, Jurchin or Southern  Tungusic, was created by Wanyan Xiyin in 1120 and officially introduced  in 1145. It was modelled on the Khitan  script and contains a large number of characters from Chinese, many  of which were modified or distorted.

The script is known from fragments of manuscripts and inscriptions  on monuments of the Jurchen empire, from the Sino-Jurchen glossary and  documents of the Ming Bureau of Translators and from Ming inscriptions  dating from 1413.

The Jurchen people lived in the northeast of Manchuria before the 12th  century. Then in 1115 they conquered a large part of northern China,  including the lands of the Khitan people, and set up the Jin dynasty.  The Jin dynasty fell to the Mongols in 1234. The Jurchen people became  known as Manchus in the 17th century when they conquered the whole of  China and established the Qing dynasty (1680-1911).

Notable features

• According to the Sino-Jurchen glossary, the Jurchen script contains  720 characters - a mixture of logograms, which represent whole words  without any phonetic element, and phonograms, which represent sounds. Compound words consisting of two or more characters were also used.

• The Jurchen characters have a system of radicals similar to  Chinese characters and are ordered according to radical and stroke  count.

Used to write
Jurchen/Manchu, a member of the Tungusic branch of the Altaic language  family. There are currently about 9 million Manchus living in northeastern  China, of whom between 70 and 1,000 speak Manchu. Most speak only Chinese.

There are also about 20,000 Manchu speakers in Xinjiang in the west  of China who are known as Sibe, Xibo or Sibo. The Sibe were moved to  the region in 1764 by the Ch'ing emperor Qianlong.

There are also Manchus in North Korea and Siberia.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/manchu.htm

Manchu

(IMG:http://www.omniglot.com/images/langsamples/smp_manchu.gif)

Origin
The Manchu alphabet was commissioned in 1599 by the Manchu leader Nurhaci  (1559-1626), the founder of the Manchu state. The letters are based  on the Classical Mongolian  alphabet while the phonetics are based on Jurchen,  an earlier Manchu script. The alphabet was modified slightly in 1632.

In 1644 the Manchus conquered China and established the Ch'ing (Qing)  dynasty, which lasted until 1911. For the first 200 years or so of the  Ch'ing dynasty, Manchu was the main language of government in China  and served as a lingua franca. By the mid 19th century many of the Manchus  had adopted Chinese as their first language, however they continued  to produce Manchu version of Chinese documents until the end of the  dynasty and for sometime afterwards.

Notable features

• Manchu is written in vertical columns running from top to bottom and from  left to right.

• Each letter has three different forms: initial, medial and final  form, which are used at the beginning, middle and end of a word respectively.

• Numerals are the same as for the Mongolian  alphabet.

Used to write:
Manchu, a member of the Tungusic group of Altaic languages. There  are currently about 9 million Manchus living in north-eastern China,  of whom between 70 and 1,000 speak Manchu. Most speak only Chinese.

In Xinjiang in the west of China about 20,000 people of Manchu origin,  who are known as Sibe, Xibo or Sibo, still speak Manchu. The Sibe were  moved to the region in 1764 by the Ch'ing emperor Qianlong.

There are also Manchus in North Korea and Siberia.

I chose my own Manchurian name of "Edu Mudur" as shown in my signature. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Kulong: Mar 27 2004, 09:27 AM

[直隸總督]

Kulong, please avoid the use of "Manchurian". It's a term that Western Imperialists set up in order to divide Northeast out of China, just like how they did/do to "Tibet".

[Kulong]

Kulong, please avoid the use of "Manchurian". It's a term that Western Imperialists set up in order to divide Northeast out of China, just like how they did/do to "Tibet".

Calling China's Dongbei "Manchuria" maybe. But what other word would you use to refer to the language of the Manchus?

[直隸總督]

Kulong, please avoid the use of "Manchurian". It's a term that Western Imperialists set up in order to divide Northeast out of China, just like how they did/do to "Tibet".

Calling China's Dongbei "Manchuria" maybe. But what other word would you use to refer to the language of the Manchus?

same, "Manchuria" is inadequate, it never exists. Traditionally, Chinese Northeast was referred as Liaodong. In late Qing dynasty, the government set up provincial systems in this region - Fengtian, Jilin and Heilongjiang. This place then was referred as Dongsanshun 東三省 ( Three Eastern Provinces), with Xu Shichang as the viceroy. Dongsanshun continued to be used throughout ROC era. Right now people only call it Dongbei (Northeast).
In 1635, Aixinjueluo Huangtaiji renamed the Nujen as "Manzhou/Manchu". Notice, Manzhou 滿州 is the name of the ethnicity, not the place. Therefore, a place named "Manchuria" doesn't exist at all, unless you're supporting Western Imperialism.

But what other word would you use to refer to the language of the Manchus?

Manchu or Nujen ( Jurchen)

[Kulong]

Therefore, a place named "Manchuria" doesn't exist at all, unless you're supporting Western Imperialism.

You should know I'm the last person to support Western Imperialism (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[SiLvErStArDuSt]

Holy crap, Kulong.. Are you seriously gonna learn all that?? I can barely read Chinese.. -_-'

[Hirschfanger]

It's the language of the manchu people though isnt it? So it still is called Manchurian. So other nations call it by other names because they can't pronounce it so what's the problem? Korean isn't called Chosun, Japan isn't called Nippon. Hwo is that supporting western imperialism? And what should Tibet be called?

Oh yeah I tried to take Manchurian in college (it has a beautiful script sort of like Sanskrit) but I was the only one who signed up for it. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/madgo.gif)

This post has been edited by Hirschfanger: Mar 25 2004, 09:15 PM

[Xiao Rong Ji]

Manchurians suck! They invaded China and screwed us up by acting like a bunch of complete pansies when the West came knocking on our doors . They also forced us to wear those ridiculous hairstyles (head shaved except for a long tail on the back). Come on, guys. Celebrating manchurian culture is no different than celebrating Japanese culture (both groups invaded us and screwed us over).

If I were alive back in the day, I'd so suicide-bomb the Dowager Empress Cixi. Disguise myself as an imperial servant and be like: "Here's your tea, my lady... sike! Pow!"

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[直隸總督]

Manchurians suck! They invaded China and screwed us up by acting like a bunch of complete pansies when the West came knocking on our doors . They also forced us to wear those ridiculous hairstyles (head shaved except for a long tail on the back). Come on, guys. Celebrating manchurian culture is no different than celebrating Japanese culture (both groups invaded us and screwed us over).

If I were alive back in the day, I'd so suicide-bomb the Dowager Empress Cixi. Disguise myself as an imperial servant and be like: "Here's your tea, my lady... sike! Pow!"

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

1) stop using "Manchurian"
2) Manchu is one of Chinese major minorities, please watch your attitude.
3)

They invaded China and screwed us up by acting like a bunch of complete pansies when the West came knocking on our doors .

Manchu was only a minority, if Hans weren't equally "pansies", then we wouldn't get screwed over.
4)

They also forced us to wear those ridiculous hairstyles (head shaved except for a long tail on the back).

It's only a hair style, nothing is ridiculous about it
5)

Celebrating manchurian culture is no different than celebrating Japanese culture (both groups invaded us and screwed us over).

what are "us", if you're referring to the Hans, sorry I'm not going to be a part of your gang. I belong to the Chinese group consists of 56 ethnicities, not Han chauvinists.

[直隸總督]

It's the language of the manchu people though isnt it? So it still is called Manchurian.

No, it's still called "Manchu" or Jurchen. Even Western scholars don't use "Manchurian" as a language.

So other nations call it by other names because they can't pronounce it so what's the problem? Korean isn't called Chosun, Japan isn't called Nippon.

I can care less when foreigners demonstrate their ignorance. But for Chinese people, we must not forget the wound caused by imperialism, and we shall be very clear-minded about our own culture. Only people like Xiao Rongji ( who is almost an American now) will continue to spread his Han chauvinist propaganda from American media.

And what should Tibet be called?

Xizhang

[Hirschfanger]

Is that what the native Tibetans call it?

You can be nationally proud of your country and still be proud of your distinct nationality. I'm an American while Im not so proud of this nation I do like what it stood for in the past but still found and am poroud of being German/ Swiss and a bit of Cherokee. Shouldn't forget your history of your people.

Yeah I forgot that it wasnt called Manchurian but Manchu. Thats what I signed up for.

[IORI]

Manchurians suck! They invaded China and screwed us up by acting like a bunch of complete pansies when the West came knocking on our doors . They also forced us to wear those ridiculous hairstyles (head shaved except for a long tail on the back). Come on, guys. Celebrating manchurian culture is no different than celebrating Japanese culture (both groups invaded us and screwed us over).

If I were alive back in the day, I'd so suicide-bomb the Dowager Empress Cixi. Disguise myself as an imperial servant and be like: "Here's your tea, my lady... sike! Pow!"

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

ok then we can also blame the han because we had mao zedong who was responsible for more deaths than hitler or stalin.

[ckf]

I don't mean to digress, but I have to say the statement about Mao is highly debatable. This is a propaganda that has been used during the cold war, and is still often quoted by many anti China crowd. I have been searching for original sources or data, and has not been succesful. If there are verificable or official sources, please let me know.

[Shao]

Awesome I want to get Manchu name!

Hm. I chose...

Shinkoan Ahun (Falcon Elder Brother)
(IMG:http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/twain/1279/images/vocabulary/Birdanimal/birdan53.gif) (IMG:http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/twain/1279/images/vocabulary/Persons/Person15.gif)

Not bad. Im going to find Manchu font...

[IORI]

I don't mean to digress, but I have to say the statement about Mao is highly debatable. This is a propaganda that has been used during the cold war, and is still often quoted by many anti China crowd. I have been searching for original sources or data, and has not been succesful. If there are verificable or official sources, please let me know.

Unlike Hitler and Stalin the deaths mao zedong caused were blunders such as the great leap forward and cultural revolution.

[Kulong]

It's so like AF for idiots to turn a thread about learning a language into anti-China bash fest (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

[直隸總督]

Awesome I want to get Manchu name!

Hm. I chose...

Shinkoan Ahun (Falcon Elder Brother)
(IMG:http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/twain/1279/images/vocabulary/Birdanimal/birdan53.gif) (IMG:http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/twain/1279/images/vocabulary/Persons/Person15.gif)

Not bad. Im going to find Manchu font...

why do people keep stealing my names ( kulong and shao)

[Kulong]

why do people keep stealing my names ( kulong and shao)

Because you're just so cool (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/cool30.gif)

[KhmerBeauty]

(IMG:http://img-b.flagspot.net/k/kh.gif) (IMG:http://khmermarket.com/html/shop/magazines/images/KulthidaMagazine01.gif)

Interesting, Manchu writing really looks like Mongolian writing, characters more like picture drawing. I'd like to learn too.

[Kulong]

Interesting, Manchu writing really looks like Mongolian writing, characters more like picture drawing. I'd like to learn too.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/manchu.htm

The Manchu alphabet was commissioned in 1599 by the Manchu leader Nurhaci (1559-1626), the founder of the Manchu state. The letters are based on the Classical Mongolian alphabet while the phonetics are based on Jurchen, an earlier Manchu script. The alphabet was modified slightly in 1632.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/jurchen.htm

The Jurchen script, which is also known as Jurchi, Jurchin or Southern Tungusic, was created by Wanyan Xiyin in 1120 and officially introduced in 1145. It was modelled on the Khitan script and contains a large number of characters from Chinese, many of which were modified or distorted.