Book reviews of the 'Chinese Dilemma' Options

[gebook]

I'm so scared of Malaysia

[swingdoctor]

I'm so scared of Malaysia

Nah don't be. Malaysia is a great country that on a personal level is made up of some of the friendliest people in the world. By and large the people get along very well and given the fact that there are 3 large racial groups most live peacefully side by side.
The land, although has been exploited in some pockets, is still one of the most beautiful in the area and the food...... the best in the world.
There are some on this site that express very radical views but most people are very friendly. If I may make a generalisation, I would say that among the races, the Malays are the most friendly, especially with the Islamic strong emphasis on helping their fellow Muslims, which they have extended to other races as well. There have been some contraversial policies instituted by the government in the past that have polarised the society but, hopefully in the future new policies will be instituted to change this.
Overall, its still one of the nicest and most stable places to visit.

[chilli21]

The size of a developing economy like Malaysia is determined mainly by the value of manufacturing, mining and agriculture.
These 3 components are not easy to create
and they also determine the size of the service and construction sector which are much easier to create.
In other words, the existence of manufacturing, mining and agriculture will automatically create the construction and services sector such as banking, telecommunicaations, transport etc.

This is why economic importance should be measured by the value contributed in high-end manufacturing, high-end agriculture and also the amount of mineral resourece a nation has.

http://www.epu.jpm.my/New%20Folder/M%27sia...05/chap%201.pdf
According to the latest data, oil,gas and other minerals, all of which are created by nature, make up 6.5% of the Malaysian economy.
Another 8% is from agriculture which is created mainly by govt state agencies such as FELDA and RISDA in collaboration with smallholders who are overwhelmingly Bumiputras. Keep in mind the contribution from agriculture is expected to rise significantly this year thanks to very high rubber price.
Manufaturing contribution is 29%

http://www.epu.jpm.my/new%20folder/develop...RM8/c9_cont.pdf
If you check the manufacturing sector on page 236 you will see that the biggest and most desirable ones are from high value products such as chemicals, automotive , semiconductors, high-end electronics, beverage&tobacco. Many of these high value products are made in very expensive factories paying relatively high wages.

All the large chemical, LNG plants and oil refineries were built by Petronas or foreign corporations. (Shell,Exxon,BP,Dow,Conoco,Eastman etc)

All the multibillion ringgit semiconductor fabs were set up by state owned firms and one by a foreign multinational.
(1st Silicon, Silterra, MIMOS and Infineon)

All the integrated car making plants were built by govt owned Proton and Perodua. Once their billion Ringgit facility is completed, a Malay company NAZA will be the third integrated car maker.

Agilent, Western Digital, Seagate, Sanyo, Flextronics, Robert Bosch, Dell snd many other foreign brands make up the bulk of Malaysian electronics and machinery production worth billions and billions of dollars.

Ethnic Chinese meanwhile do not possess the financial and technological resources to participate in high-end manufacturing.
Instead of building billion dollar manufacturing plants, the Chinese are only capable of churning out low value things like furniture, gloves, apparel, plastic parts and low-end electronics.
These industries are very low paying and in some cases like metal recycling, highly polluting.
These labour intensive cheapskate factories are also the excuse given by some corrupt/inept govt bigwigs to keep the Ringgit value down and adopt a low cost economic policy.

This is why I keep saying Malaysia would be much richer and cleaner without the Chinese.
Furthermore, without the Chinese, the wealth created by large national and foreign corporations as well as from mineral resoureces could be divided among fewer Malaysians.
The only important Chinese contribution is the billion dollar Megasteel mill but this is nothing much from a population of 6 million.

Even though the service sector is not as important, that doesn't mean it is dominated by the Chinese.
For instance many of the largest shopping centres such as Suria KLCC,The Curve, Subang Parade and The Mall are owned by the govt.
The biggest shipping company is the state owned MISC.
The second biggest airline is Malay owned Air Asia .
Power plants and water utilities are built mainly by govt and Bumiputra firms.
The combined assets of Bumiputra controlled banking groups (RHB, AMMB, EON, Muamalat) is larger than those of Chinese owned ones (Public,Hong Leong)
http://www.asianbanks.net/HTML/Countries/MY/MYrankings.htm

I don't care what that moron Mahathir said.
Many idiots like to claim the Bumis couldn't catch up despite the NEP but they conveniently ignore the fact that the NEP was carried out in a democratic environmment which means we never nationalised the ill-gotten assets of non-Bumis.
Those same idiots also refuse to take into account the pro-Chinese affirmative-action during 70-80 yrs of British rule which allowed non-Bumis to build their economic advantage in the first place. The NEP is still less than half as long as British rule and it has been executed in a very challenging democratic manner. We have to undo past injustices without using the same unfair policies used by the British to marginalise the Bumiputras.

Instead of confiscating the assets of non-Bumis, we spend a large portion of our national wealth to subsidise them. If that is not bad enough, the Bumis are the only ppl who defended democracy and the sovereignty of this nation from both communist Chinese traitors as well as neighbouring countries.
We made all these sacrifices out of love for the nation while the Chinese have been polluting, vandalising the environment
and betraying Malaysia.

I must add that in the case of retail sector, the presence of ethnic Chinese retailers who have longer roots dating back to before independence is making it difficult for Bumi newcomers.
This is also true in other sub-sectors which the Chinese dominate like logging, property and timber products
all of which could be easily filled in by Bumis or foreign investors if there were no Chinese.
The point I am making here is: Malaysia still manage to keep advancing not because of the Chinese; but despite the Chinese.

If all the Chinese leave , Malaysia would be better off in many ways: economically, environmentally and genetically
and the Bumiputras would be richer by taking over retail, logging and some other easy sub-sectors.

Its the Chinese who will suffer.

how long did it take you to type up the hatred you have for the chinese? i don't think it's that long coz you're used to it already. oh well, too bad the chinese are still in malaysia.

This post has been edited by chilli21: Mar 16 2006, 12:09 AM

[swingdoctor]

You know IM companies like FELDA, Petronas, Proton, RISDA and many other companies you mentiontioned are heavily or fully govnt owned when they were set up. Where do you think the govnt obtained the finances to start these companies, from taxes, where do you think these taxes come from, only from the Malays? Furthermore, what percentage of these businesses that are controlled by the govnt do business with the non Malay banks? I bet not much, if any at all.
What percentage of the employees of these companies are made up of non malays, very small, why is that? Ooops I'm sorry this is because as you've said in the past the non Malays are just not good enough to hold down these jobs.
The problem with you is that you are a Malay Malaysian rather then a Malaysian Malay.

[johnleemk]

The size of a developing economy like Malaysia is determined mainly by the value of manufacturing, mining and agriculture.
These 3 components are not easy to create
and they also determine the size of the service and construction sector which are much easier to create.
In other words, the existence of manufacturing, mining and agriculture will automatically create the construction and services sector such as banking, telecommunicaations, transport etc.

This is why economic importance should be measured by the value contributed in high-end manufacturing, high-end agriculture and also the amount of mineral resourece a nation has.

http://www.epu.jpm.my/New%20Folder/M%27sia...05/chap%201.pdf
According to the latest data, oil,gas and other minerals, all of which are created by nature, make up 6.5% of the Malaysian economy.
Another 8% is from agriculture which is created mainly by govt state agencies such as FELDA and RISDA in collaboration with smallholders who are overwhelmingly Bumiputras. Keep in mind the contribution from agriculture is expected to rise significantly this year thanks to very high rubber price.
Manufaturing contribution is 29%

http://www.epu.jpm.my/new%20folder/develop...RM8/c9_cont.pdf
If you check the manufacturing sector on page 236 you will see that the biggest and most desirable ones are from high value products such as chemicals, automotive , semiconductors, high-end electronics, beverage&tobacco. Many of these high value products are made in very expensive factories paying relatively high wages.

All the large chemical, LNG plants and oil refineries were built by Petronas or foreign corporations. (Shell,Exxon,BP,Dow,Conoco,Eastman etc)

All the multibillion ringgit semiconductor fabs were set up by state owned firms and one by a foreign multinational.
(1st Silicon, Silterra, MIMOS and Infineon)

All the integrated car making plants were built by govt owned Proton and Perodua. Once their billion Ringgit facility is completed, a Malay company NAZA will be the third integrated car maker.

Agilent, Western Digital, Seagate, Sanyo, Flextronics, Robert Bosch, Dell snd many other foreign brands make up the bulk of Malaysian electronics and machinery production worth billions and billions of dollars.

Ethnic Chinese meanwhile do not possess the financial and technological resources to participate in high-end manufacturing.
Instead of building billion dollar manufacturing plants, the Chinese are only capable of churning out low value things like furniture, gloves, apparel, plastic parts and low-end electronics.
These industries are very low paying and in some cases like metal recycling, highly polluting.
These labour intensive cheapskate factories are also the excuse given by some corrupt/inept govt bigwigs to keep the Ringgit value down and adopt a low cost economic policy.

This is why I keep saying Malaysia would be much richer and cleaner without the Chinese.
Furthermore, without the Chinese, the wealth created by large national and foreign corporations as well as from mineral resoureces could be divided among fewer Malaysians.
The only important Chinese contribution is the billion dollar Megasteel mill but this is nothing much from a population of 6 million.

Even though the service sector is not as important, that doesn't mean it is dominated by the Chinese.
For instance many of the largest shopping centres such as Suria KLCC,The Curve, Subang Parade and The Mall are owned by the govt.
The biggest shipping company is the state owned MISC.
The second biggest airline is Malay owned Air Asia .
Power plants and water utilities are built mainly by govt and Bumiputra firms.
The combined assets of Bumiputra controlled banking groups (RHB, AMMB, EON, Muamalat) is larger than those of Chinese owned ones (Public,Hong Leong)
http://www.asianbanks.net/HTML/Countries/MY/MYrankings.htm

I don't care what that moron Mahathir said.
Many idiots like to claim the Bumis couldn't catch up despite the NEP but they conveniently ignore the fact that the NEP was carried out in a democratic environmment which means we never nationalised the ill-gotten assets of non-Bumis.
Those same idiots also refuse to take into account the pro-Chinese affirmative-action during 70-80 yrs of British rule which allowed non-Bumis to build their economic advantage in the first place. The NEP is still less than half as long as British rule and it has been executed in a very challenging democratic manner. We have to undo past injustices without using the same unfair policies used by the British to marginalise the Bumiputras.

Instead of confiscating the assets of non-Bumis, we spend a large portion of our national wealth to subsidise them. If that is not bad enough, the Bumis are the only ppl who defended democracy and the sovereignty of this nation from both communist Chinese traitors as well as neighbouring countries.
We made all these sacrifices out of love for the nation while the Chinese have been polluting, vandalising the environment
and betraying Malaysia.

I must add that in the case of retail sector, the presence of ethnic Chinese retailers who have longer roots dating back to before independence is making it difficult for Bumi newcomers.
This is also true in other sub-sectors which the Chinese dominate like logging, property and timber products
all of which could be easily filled in by Bumis or foreign investors if there were no Chinese.
The point I am making here is: Malaysia still manage to keep advancing not because of the Chinese; but despite the Chinese.

If all the Chinese leave , Malaysia would be better off in many ways: economically, environmentally and genetically
and the Bumiputras would be richer by taking over retail, logging and some other easy sub-sectors.

Its the Chinese who will suffer.

Total bull$hit. You are basically arguing that Chinese are genetically and naturally incompetent and unable to participate in the manufacturing sector, and then gloss over their contributions to the retail sector. You accuse the Chinese of betraying Malaysia by turning to communism and allegedly neighbouring countries but offer no evidence. Only a small number of Chinese joined the MCP; the vast majority were carted off to the New Villages. Furthermore, what of Malays like Rashid Maidin? You are talking out of your @$$ here. Clearly you don't believe that Chinese and Malays should be equal, either in the eyes of the law or in terms of opportunities available, so it's a waste of time talking to you.

[Jaimu-Jaimu]

Iron Malayan, keep your comments on the right side of constructive.
I don't want to hear the words "genetically" in any post in relation to the Chinese ok?

[Suijen]

Chinese are genetically adorable.

[chilli21]

Iron Malayan, keep your comments on the right side of constructive.
I don't want to hear the words "genetically" in any post in relation to the Chinese ok?

read all his past comments regarding chinese and you'll know what his answer to you will be.

[Jaimu-Jaimu]

Chinese are genetically adorable.

No wonder I can't stop pinching your cheeks.

read all his past comments regarding chinese and you'll know what his answer to you will be.

He has alot of posts.
I've given him an informal warning, if he does it again...he knows what'll happen.

[chilli21]

He has alot of posts.
I've given him an informal warning, if he does it again...he knows what'll happen.

you're so nice.

[malaccan]

Chinese are genetically adorable

^Especially Sujien.

Back to topic:

How many here have actually read the book? The topic is after all, about the book. I have, wizi has. Iron Malayan, you can get the book at Kinokuniya KLCC, or MPH MidValley. The author is believe it or not, a Chinese Malaysian who is as proud and loyal to the country as you and me. He argues FOR the implementation of the NEP, given the unique demographics of Malaysia.

This post has been edited by malaccan: Mar 16 2006, 06:11 PM

[forrestcat]

Nah don't be. Malaysia is a great country that on a personal level is made up of some of the friendliest people in the world. By and large the people get along very well and given the fact that there are 3 large racial groups most live peacefully side by side.
The land, although has been exploited in some pockets, is still one of the most beautiful in the area and the food...... the best in the world.
There are some on this site that express very radical views but most people are very friendly. If I may make a generalisation, I would say that among the races, the Malays are the most friendly, especially with the Islamic strong emphasis on helping their fellow Muslims, which they have extended to other races as well. There have been some contraversial policies instituted by the government in the past that have polarised the society but, hopefully in the future new policies will be instituted to change this.
Overall, its still one of the nicest and most stable places to visit.

Too bad u r already an Australian citizen........where did we g wrong to lose people like you to Australia...

[johnleemk]

Too bad u r already an Australian citizen........where did we g wrong to lose people like you to Australia...

I don't like to harp on this issue because too many Chinese racists use it to further their own agenda, but I think that the government's discriminatory practices (in general -- not just regarding race) would have something to do with it. If you haven't already, check out Dr. Bakri Musa's great book, The Malay Dilemma Revisited, where he recounts how hard it is even for a Malay to get by in the Malaysian government. And of course, our affirmative action policies have ben subverted and turned into racism of the most egregrious kind -- my father resigned his position as a lecturer in NTU to work here, but UKM turned him down just because he wasn't a Bumi. When it's so open and obvious -- nobody even bothers to disguise it -- is it any wonder that we have a problem on our hands?

[swingdoctor]

Too bad u r already an Australian citizen........where did we g wrong to lose people like you to Australia...

Thats a nice thing to say.
I find it ironic that the Malaysian govnt wouldn't take me back as a Malaysian citizen but would readily offer citizenship and Bumi status to an Indonesian with minimal qualifications. But I'm happy here anyway.

Watched Malaysia play badminton in the Commonwealth games, they beat North. Ire. . Then they played us and beat us . Ah well can't win them all.
Does anyone know if Malaysia sent their strongest team?

[samheisfl]

Thats a nice thing to say.
I find it ironic that the Malaysian govnt wouldn't take me back as a Malaysian citizen but would readily offer citizenship and Bumi status to an Indonesian with minimal qualifications. But I'm happy here anyway.

Watched Malaysia play badminton in the Commonwealth games, they beat North. Ire. . Then they played us and beat us . Ah well can't win them all.
Does anyone know if Malaysia sent their strongest team?

Yes.. Malaysia sent their best team for badminton.. their targetting at least 3 golds from badminton..

[Iron Malayan]

Iron Malayan, keep your comments on the right side of constructive.
I don't want to hear the words "genetically" in any post in relation to the Chinese ok?

Geez, alright then.

[swingdoctor]

Yes.. Malaysia sent their best team for badminton.. their targetting at least 3 golds from badminton..

Should be easily achieveable, not much competition in the Commonwealth.
On a seperate topic, how is Malaysian badminton doing on the international scene? ie Thomas cup, Uber Cup and All England?

[samheisfl]

Should be easily achieveable, not much competition in the Commonwealth.
On a seperate topic, how is Malaysian badminton doing on the international scene? ie Thomas cup, Uber Cup and All England?

Well, the performance is still in yo-yo state.. suddenly they are on the top world, and in fortnight, they were eliminated at the first round.. i think the mental isn't strong enough.. but, the women teams are getting strong nowadays.. This year, there will be the Thomas Cup event.. in june if i'm not mistaken..

[swingdoctor]

Again on a seperate note, how is my old state of Johor doing in the Malaysia Cup?

[aaaw]

Hate to do this to Iron Malaysian, but the richest man in Malaysia is a Chinese named Robert Kuok worth 4.10 billion US

http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/76/200...datatype=Person