Mongolian clans, everything about Mongolian clans Options

[Khatun]

What are the Mongolian clans? Yesterday, talking to Anda I was surprised that Buryad was a Mongol clan. I want to know more and please mention, which clan you belong.

[SARAN]

What are the Mongolian clans? Yesterday, talking to Anda I was surprised that Buryad was a Mongol clan. I want to know more and please mention, which clan you belong.

Tuva (Toba), Buryat, Kalmik from former Soviet Union.

[Anda]

Halh (Халх)
Hotgoid (Хотгойд)
Darhad (Дархад)
Eljgin (Элжгин)
Sartuul (Сартуул)
Dariganga (Дариганга)
Üzemchin (Vзэмчин)
Kazakh (Казах / Хасаг)
Urianhai - Altai (Урианхай - Алтайн)
Hoton (Хотон)
Buriad (Буриад)
Barga (Барга)
Dörvöd (Дєрвєд)
Zahchin (Захчин)
Torguud (Торгууд)
Bayaad (Баяд)
Hoshuud (Хошууд)
Myangad (Мянгад)
Ööld (Єєлд)
Urianhai - Tsaatan (Урианхай - Цатаан)

[Khatun]

Halh (Халх)
Hotgoid (Хотгойд)
Darhad (Дархад)
Eljgin (Элжгин)
Sartuul (Сартуул)
Dariganga (Дариганга)
Üzemchin (Vзэмчин)
Kazakh (Казах / Хасаг)
Urianhai - Altai (Урианхай - Алтайн)
Hoton (Хотон)
Buriad (Буриад)
Barga (Барга)
Dörvöd (Дєрвєд)
Zahchin (Захчин)
Torguud (Торгууд)
Bayaad (Баяд)
Hoshuud (Хошууд)
Myangad (Мянгад)
Ööld (Єєлд)
Urianhai - Tsaatan (Урианхай - Цатаан)

Thank You, but why Kazakh is among them unless you are talking some other Kazakhs? Kazakhs-I mean nation, not clan do not view themselves as part of Mongols. Some acknoledge being related in the past, but not actualiy being ones.

This post has been edited by Khatun: Feb 12 2006, 12:29 PM

[Anda]

Thank You, but why Kazakh is among them unless you are talking some other Kazakhs? Kazakhs-I mean nation, not clan do not  view themselves as part of Mongols. Some acknoledge being related in the past, but not actualiy being ones.

I think i mixed up ethnic groups and clans
These are ethnic groups/clans in Mongolia. But i am not sure about which word should use ;-clan/etnic groups. Whatever the someone's ethnic group is (Mongolian, Kazakh, Chinese or Russian), as long as he/she holds mongolian passport, i would consider him/her Mongolian. Since you have asked Mongolian clans which their language, culture, history is related to Mongolia. Kazakh and Tuvans are turkish related folks. Others are all mongol speaking people
Hers is map:-
(IMG:http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/anda_mn/ethnicmap_med.jpg)

This post has been edited by Anda: Feb 12 2006, 03:34 PM

[Khatun]

I see. I was more interested in Mongolian internal clans. Kazakhs do have clans like Naimans, Kypchaks, Uisuns. etc. Two internal groups of Kazakhs do not belong to any clans-Khodja and Tore. Tore are decendants of Ghengis khan and his relatives and Khodja are decendants of Arabian missioners. Of course all these groups are intermixed now in one nation.
I wonder if Mongols have something similar.

[Kultigin]

I see. I was more interested in Mongolian internal clans. Kazakhs do have clans like Naimans, Kypchaks, Uisuns. etc. Two internal groups of Kazakhs do not belong to any clans-Khodja and Tore. Tore are decendants of Ghengis khan and his relatives and Khodja are decendants of Arabian missioners. Of course all these groups are intermixed now in one nation.
I wonder if Mongols have something similar.

kypchaks are western Turkic tribe, they have mostly blond hair blue or green eyes (since more then 1000 years), i have also slight kypchak blood in me.

[Khatun]

kypchaks are western Turkic tribe, they have mostly blond hair blue or green eyes (since more then 1000 years), i have also slight kypchak blood in me.

They were, not anymore. They are regular Kazakhs now and look no different than Uisuns or Naimans. All Kazakh tribes look similar now because of intermixing.

This post has been edited by Khatun: Feb 13 2006, 09:31 PM

[Kultigin]

You have right ofcourse but there are still area's (such huge country eh) wich remained still kypchak. Even here in Turkey you have some villages of kypchak people (northern part) even near Ankara (capital) they discovered a small village who still speak a very old Turkic dialect (similar to the Cuman dialect).

[Khatun]

You have right ofcourse but there are still area's (such huge country eh) wich remained still kypchak. Even here in Turkey you have some villages of kypchak people (northern part) even near Ankara (capital) they discovered a small village who still speak a very old Turkic dialect (similar to the Cuman dialect).

Maybe in Turkey, but not in Kazakhstan or Russia. Kypchak territories were explored first by Russians, but long time before that Kypchaks started mixing with other tribes. Actually there was a rule which prohibited to marry within one' tribe if you have common ancestor last 7 generations, so people had to marry outside their tribe. Khodja tribe (Arab missioners) were the only exception.

This post has been edited by Khatun: Feb 13 2006, 11:36 AM

[Kultigin]

Hmm what else have i to say (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif) Thanks Khatun and i think we've gone too far off topic.

[Khatun]

Hmm what else have i to say (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif) Thanks Khatun and i think we've gone too far off topic.

Yeah, where are the Mongols? How many Mongols in this forum. I saw so far 3-4 blocks and that's it.

[ANAND]

Yeah, where are the Mongols? How many Mongols in this forum. I saw so far 3-4 blocks and that's it.

I think Mongols not really interested in having stupid argument with chinese wannabe nationalists. But i can answer whatever you are interested.

[Jt (mongolian)]

I think Mongols not really interested in having stupid argument with chinese wannabe nationalists. But i can answer whatever you are interested.

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif)

This post has been edited by Jt (mongolian): Feb 13 2006, 02:44 PM

[Khatun]

I think Mongols not really interested in having stupid argument with chinese wannabe nationalists. But i can answer whatever you are interested.

Are you implying that I'm a Chinese wannabe?

[ANAND]

I see. I was more interested in Mongolian internal clans. Kazakhs do have clans like Naimans, Kypchaks, Uisuns. etc. Two internal groups of Kazakhs do not belong to any clans-Khodja and Tore. Tore are decendants of Ghengis khan and his relatives and Khodja are decendants of Arabian missioners. Of course all these groups are intermixed now in one nation.
I wonder if Mongols have something similar.

Mongolian clans system went through lots of historical changes. It can be divided like that"-
-During Chingis khaan, Mongol tribes did not have national Identity as MONGOL. Since Temujin become Chinggiss Khaan of all steppe tribes, declared ALL MONGOL ULUS (HAMAG MONGOL ULS). He is truely FATHER of the NATION. Then you know lots tribes/ clans scattered all over conquered area. Most of them intermixed with local people. In Russia, Kazakhstan, Aftganistan, Turkey, India and China, you 'll find mongolian traces which almost not recogniseable. History is history, mongols do not really go/claim for them. They are different nation
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- After Yuan empire collapse, Mongols somehow tale refuge in their traditional land Mongolia. MIlitary base in Yunnan in Southern China were left behind and blocked by Ming army, eventually gave up their weapon and asiimilated. But still they speak Mongolian language, but they became farmers.
After that they never ever really united, there were constant struggle, war among Mongol themselves. Descendeants of Chingiss haan were numerious, everyone wanted to be / to have own little kings/ kingdoms. Mongolia was divided into East, Central and West Mongolia.
East and southern Mongolia goes together later they become Inner Mongolia.
Central Mongolia is present day Mongolia.
Western Mongolia were Jungar Mongols. Each had its own clan system.
East/Southern Mongol clans were Barga, Tsahar, Uzemchin and so on.
Western Mongols were 4 oirad clan" - Durved, Hoshuud, Torguud, Oold, Bayad and so on. Some of Torguud clan offshoot to Caspian after their internal struggle. They tried to return once, their flight through Kazak, bashkir territory were difficult bloody. Some of them could go through, returned to area today's Kalimag Republic. They are now Kalimag. They are Mongols, mongolian language speaking and Buddhist, but just like Kazakhs who do not like to be related Mongols, they also has same problem. They want to be European, actually they are in European territory.
Central Mongolia is mostly Khalkha Mongols. Name Khalkh appeared after Batmonkh Dayan Khaan diveded Mongolia for his 7 sons. Plus Uriankhai, Tuvans, Buriads belong to this division. Buriads were simply Mongols, after they occupied by Russians, their self identity as Buriad become more strong due Russian influence.

Tsogt taij of Khalkh Mongol tried to beat the Lamaist Religion in Tibet becuase Yellow Lama sect becoming strong in Mongolia. He took large nunber of Mongols with him. But he was lost in battle against fellow Mongolian Guush Khaan who defended Tibet. Remaining Mongols from Tsogt army settled in Hoh Nuur in Qinghai China, they formed a clan Mongols of Hoh Nuur( Blue Lake) , still living in China.


It was easy prey for Manchus/ Chinese
----------------------------------------

Manchus Occupied All MOngolia. They divided Mongolia into numerious administrative division and forbide them to move freely from one to another. After 200 years, it become more like individual entity like clan. It was new subdivision, but Mongols Maintained its clans in some degree.

----------------------------------------------

Communist periods. They reduced administrative units. Clans mixed a lot during this time of Modernization and industrial development.
Origin of Clans play very little role in Modern Mongolia

This post has been edited by ANAND: Feb 13 2006, 03:14 PM

[Khatun]

Very insightfull information.

I realize that Mongols attributed to formation or genetically influenced many Central Asians nations, but there is a denial factor, which plays role.

When it comes to Kalmyks, I think that it is not because they want to be associated with Russians or consider themselves Europeans, but because they want to produce unique image, presenting themsleves as separate nations rather than clan. The same story with some Christian Tatars, who are in fact Tatars, but because they were baptized by Russians they prefer to be considered a separate nation-Kryashens, which means Baptized in Russian. I personally find it comical, but if that's how they feel, then why to force them.
Kazakhs do acknoledge Mongol blood in them, because the whole Mongol clans like Naimans, Zhalairs and Kerei played role in formation of Kazakhs, but they make a big accent on Turkic origin rather than Mongol and of course they do not consider themselves Caucasians or Europeans. I think majority of Kazakhs do not even question their Asian origin.

Are there any subdivisions within Khalkha?

[ANAND]

Are there any subdivisions within Khalkha?

There are lot of small clan names, that is not really significant at all. I would say, we should forget that clan thing. Mongolia is nation, Mongolians are those whoever holds mongolian passport and respect Mongolian law and protect her people's common interest

[ANAND]

Some mongol speaking people
(IMG:http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/anda_mn/Mongols-map.png)

This post has been edited by ANAND: Feb 16 2006, 10:34 PM

[Bitterlemon]

Halh (Халх)
Hotgoid (Хотгойд)
Darhad (Дархад)
Eljgin (Элжгин)
Sartuul (Сартуул)
Dariganga (Дариганга)
Üzemchin (Vзэмчин)
Kazakh (Казах / Хасаг)
Urianhai - Altai (Урианхай - Алтайн)
Hoton (Хотон)
Buriad (Буриад)
Barga (Барга)
Dörvöd (Дєрвєд)
Zahchin (Захчин)
Torguud (Торгууд)
Bayaad (Баяд)
Hoshuud (Хошууд)
Myangad (Мянгад)
Ööld (Єєлд)
Urianhai - Tsaatan (Урианхай - Цатаан)

Great! (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggthumpup.gif)
But u forgot to include the Tsahars, Anda. Then as I read, Urianhai is divided into 3-4 groups and one of them is Tsaatan, the Reindeer Keepers. And also I nkow some Harchin people, but I guess they are in the Khalkha group?