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[tangawizi]

Imaam an-Nawawiyy said: “If a man was angry with his child or young slave and hit him severely, then another person asked him, ‘How could you do this? Aren’t you a Muslim?’ and to that his deliberate answer was ‘No’, he blasphemed.”

This was said by Hanafiyy scholars as well as others.

Hmmm...I don't see how this connects with Rumi's poetry on spirituality.

If the father who hit the child had answered the other person 'Yes, I am Muslim', does it mean he hasn't done anything wrong?

[samsparky]

Is this a hadith maybe I've never heard of ? if so can you pls tell me which hadith it is ?

It was narrated by Abu Sa^eed an-Naysaboori. He related this story.

Dear sparky, forgive me but sound intellect is just incompatible with spiritual matters. I'd humbly admit to you I cannot begin to see what sound intellect is behind the notion that Adam and Eve propagated the human race through sets of twins who intermarried. This sounds like an episode from the X-files...

I must admit to you too that I've never gotten a satisfactory answer from a christian on this issue either.

In my humble opinion, when we ponder about spirituality matters, how we came about is really inconsequential. However, how we will end up when we are on our deathbeds is more of an enlightening thing to ponder upon.

The sound intellect tells us that God Exists - and He alone deserves to be worshipped.

I.e. There is not creation without the Creator.

The sound intellect tells us that when a man who performs miracles of Prophethood which can not be discredited tells us how the world began, we should believe him.

Hmmm...I don't see how this connects with Rumi's poetry on spirituality.

If the father who hit the child had answered the other person 'Yes, I am Muslim', does it mean he hasn't done anything wrong?

No, but at least he didn't blaspheme by calling belief blasphemy.

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh
Thnx afif for the invitation...
I'm in.... (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

wa 3alaikom assalaam wa RaHmatullaah wa Barakaatuh

Salam, nice to meet you (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

It's quite interesting to know that there are similarities between Islam and what the ancient sages of India, Taoists, Buddhists, have been teaching. Sometimes I feel if many Muslims truly follow this part of the Islamic religion, then maybe we wouldn't have so many extremists/fanatics going around committing acts of violence in the name of religion. As their behavior/actions would go against what Islam truly asks from its followers: moderation, self-discipline.

Too many Muslims, from what I have seen, tend to practice Islam dogmatically. They teach and preach without allowing their students to analyze the materials presented in order to attain their own form of enlightenment to better strengthen their faith. Thus the students only "know" but they do not "understand". And many end up being self-righteous or sanctimonious towards others who they deem are not as "good" of a Muslim as they are...and many also turn towards extremism/fanaticism.

It's a disheartening trend amongst many Muslim communities, and I don't know if it's one that will change anytime soon. I see it happening in my own, and the criticisms about it have fallen on the deaf ears of the elders...they feel that questioning/analyzing religion would lead us astray but how else are we to attain enlightenment, how else are we to truly embrace Islam as our own faith (and not just the faith of our parents/ancestors) if we do not question/analyze it...?

You question only until you are sure that the info is authentic from the Prophet and Companions.

Once you are sure that it is authentic - you do not question the Prophet or God!!
THAT is what astray is.

The Prophet didn't only convey the Qur'aan and Hadeeth, he also explained.

He did not say to the Companions - go off and understand it your own way, he made sure they understood it the right way.

This post has been edited by samsparky: Apr 6 2006, 09:27 PM

[pun187]

It was narrated by Abu Sa^eed an-Naysaboori. He related this story.

Who is Abu Saeed an'Naysaboori ??? You mean Abu Saeed al'Khudri(ra) ??? or Hakim al'Naysaboori ???

The sound intellect tells us that God Exists - and He alone deserves to be worshipped.

I.e. There is not creation without the Creator.

The sound intellect tells us that when a man who performs miracles of Prophethood which can not be discredited tells us how the world began, we should believe him.

let me ask u the same question from my old post again,how can you back up your interpretation with the "twins" theory ??? through the quran ? hadith ? or is it something you just had heard of ???

btw if they really gave birth to twins, and then two more twins, they are technically brothers and sisters,you know what Im trying to say LOL

This post has been edited by pun187: Apr 7 2006, 03:13 AM

[samsparky]

Abu Sa^eed an-Naysaboori is the man who heard the poem. Just becuse you can't find it in google it doesn't mean its not true (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_wink.gif)

Prophet MuHammad, Sallallaahu ^alaihi wa sallam said what means:

<<Allaah ordered an Angel to take from the soil of the earth, from the black and the white and what’s in between…and so the offspring of Adam came according to that. >> (Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan and others)

In AHmad’s narration: <<And so the offspring of Adam came according to that (i.e. because of the different soil types), some black, some red, some white, some in between, and the easy and the hard and what’s in between…>>

I will get more detail about the story of Prophet Adam and his children - but its known that in the Rules revealed to Prophet Adam, the male from one set of twins was allowed to marry the female from another set - eventhough they are brothers and sisters. And when Prophet $hith (one of Adam's sons) was revealed to, that rule got abrogated and brothers and sisters were no longer allowed to marry - even if they were from different twin sets.

Anyway don't you know the story of Qaabeel and Haabeel (Cane & Able)?

One of the reasons why Qaabeel was angry with Haabeel was because Qaabeel wanted to marry his own twin sister and did not want Haabeel to marry her.

[pun187]

Abu Sa^eed an-Naysaboori is the man who heard the poem. Just becuse you can't find it in google it doesn't mean its not true (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_wink.gif)

What Poem (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif) do you remember my question ??? it was about Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and the "Jinn" from Prophet Jesus's(PBUH) time

Is this a hadith maybe I've never heard of ? if so can you pls tell me which hadith it is ?


Prophet MuHammad, Sallallaahu ^alaihi wa sallam said what means:

<<Allaah ordered an Angel to take from the soil of the earth, from the black and the white and what’s in between…and so the offspring of Adam came according to that. >> (Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan and others)

In AHmad’s narration: <<And so the offspring of Adam came according to that (i.e. because of the different soil types), some black, some red, some white, some in between, and the easy and the hard and what’s in between…>>

I will get more detail about the story of Prophet Adam and his children - but its known that in the Rules revealed to Prophet Adam, the male from one set of twins was allowed to marry the female from another set - eventhough they are brothers and sisters. And when Prophet $hith (one of Adam's sons) was revealed to, that rule got abrogated and brothers and sisters were no longer allowed to marry - even if they were from different twin sets.

If you provide us with your "Informations" pls don't forget to give us the Vol. , Book and Nr. of the hadith aswell and yeah don't forget the name of the narrater LOL .Again you just gave me a theory/story without backing it up clearly with the hadith or quran.So pls give me an proper answer!

this thread is so much fun!!!

This post has been edited by pun187: Apr 7 2006, 03:41 AM

[samsparky]

What Poem (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif) do you remember my question ??? it was about Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and the "Jinn" from Prophet Jesus's(PBUH) time

Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to.

At Prophet MuHammad’s time, there were people who had not yet met with him. One of them heard a voice without seeing the speaker. It was a voice telling in a poetic way to send the salaam to Prophet MuHammad and that Prophet Jesus, the son of Mary, told to follow Prophet MuHammad. After the man and the people with him met with the Prophet, it was discovered that that was actually a jinn believer from Prophet Jesus’s time.

It was narrated by Abu Sa^eed an-Naysaboori. He related this story.

If you provide us with your "Informations" pls don't forget to give us the Vol. , Book and Nr. of the hadith aswell and yeah don't forget the name of the narrater LOL .Again you just gave me a theory/story without backing it up clearly with the hadith or quran.So pls give me an proper answer!

this thread is so much fun!!!

Surat al-'A^raf, Ayah 189 means: [Allah created you from one person (Prophet Adam) and created his wife (Hawwa') from him.]

I mentioned some Hadeeths before and the narrator - you claim to be so knowledgable - why don't you look them up yourself?

[pun187]

Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to.

At Prophet MuHammad’s time, there were people who had not yet met with him. One of them heard a voice without seeing the speaker. It was a voice telling in a poetic way to send the salaam to Prophet MuHammad and that Prophet Jesus, the son of Mary, told to follow Prophet MuHammad. After the man and the people with him met with the Prophet, it was discovered that that was actually a jinn believer from Prophet Jesus’s time.

It was narrated by Abu Sa^eed an-Naysaboori. He related this story.

thank you! so its just a story! not a hadith! We can't be sure that this story is authentic !

Surat al-'A^raf, Ayah 189 means: [Allah created you from one person (Prophet Adam) and created his wife (Hawwa') from him.]

HE it is Who created you from a single soul and made therefrom its mate, that he might find comfort in her. And when he knows her, she bears a light burden and goes about with it. And when she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah, their Lord, saying, `If thou gives us a good child, we will surely be of the thankful.

this Verse means that men and women are equal afterall they are created from one soul! and it means that marriage is meant for the attainment of peace of mind and mutual love and affection.Like Allah has said that marriage is the means of attaining piety and of guarding one's chastity.You know that Adam and Eve were the 1st persons on earth with a soul ??? yes you probably do! but now a lil question to you do animals have a soul ? I hope you know what Im trying to say.In my understanding the men b4 Adam(PBUH) were lower forms of life not animals but not yet humans so they had no soul!

I mentioned some Hadeeths before and the narrator - you claim to be so knowledgable - why don't you look them up yourself?

No! I want them from you,afterall you have so much knowledge too,and these hadiths should back up your interpretation not mine,so its your duty to provide us with the hadith,so we can be sure that your informations are authentic!

This post has been edited by pun187: Apr 7 2006, 02:27 PM

[samsparky]

thank you! so its just a story! not a hadith! We can't be sure that this story is authentic !

If the man was classified as trustworthy - then it is true.

You know that Adam and Eve were the 1st persons on earth with a soul ??? yes you probably do! but know a lil question to you do animals have a soul ? I hope you know what Im trying to say.In my understandind the men b4 Adam were lower forms of life not animals but not yet humans so they had no soul!

Mr theories who no one else has ever heard of in their life,
You only apply the proof-bringing rule to me.

Even using the translation you have: "HE it is Who created you from a single soul and made there from its mate"

nafs doesn't mean soul here by the way. Even in usual everyday language - nafs means self or person.

Do you know who you remind me of?

This person I was talking to on yahoo a while back and he turned out to be 7ulooli.

Don't tell me you were the one I was talking to!!

[pun187]

nafs doesn't mean soul here by the way. Even in usual everyday language - nafs means self or person.

Do you know who you remind me of?

This person I was talking to on yahoo a while back and he turned out to be 7ulooli.

Don't tell me you were the one I was talking to!!

Yeah of course! just for back up I'll provide you the meaning of "Nafs"

NAFS (a.), soul. Nafs, in early Arabic poetry meant the self or person, while ruh means
breath and wind. Beginning with the Qur'an, nafs also means soul, and ruh means a special
angel messenger and a special divine quality. Only in post-Qur'anic literature are nafs and ruh
equated and both applied to the human spirit, angels and Jinn. Since the two concepts of
nafs and ruh are so closely connected, both will be considered here.

You know what lets start a debate in the D/P/R Forum it's really fun debating against ya (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) you vs. me ,aight ???

This post has been edited by pun187: Apr 7 2006, 04:36 AM

[tangawizi]

The sound intellect tells us that when a man who performs miracles of Prophethood which can not be discredited tells us how the world began, we should believe him.

You question only until you are sure that the info is authentic from the Prophet and Companions.

Once you are sure that it is authentic - you do not question the Prophet or God!!
THAT is what astray is.

Yes, by this stage, this will no longer require any intellect but a pure leap of faith. Therefore, this pure leap of faith must be experienced personally. No one can do the leap for you.

[samsparky]

Yes, by this stage, this will no longer require any intellect but a pure leap of faith. Therefore, this pure leap of faith must be experienced personally. No one can do the leap for you.

You completely missed the point - i will put it in bold 4 u.

The sound intellect tells us that when a man who performs miracles of Prophethood which can not be discredited tells us something, he is a Prophet.

Do you know what miracles of Prophethood which can not be discredited means?

It means they can not be discredited

Which means: they are miracles of Prophethood

Which means: the one performing them must be a Prophet sent by God.

Yeah of course! just for back up I'll provide you the meaning of "Nafs"
You know what lets start a debate in the D/P/R Forum it's really fun debating against ya (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) you vs. me ,aight ???

Yale-Faculty Research Worldwide - Arabic Lexicon?

That's your famous Arab linguist??? lol

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_wink.gif)

This post has been edited by samsparky: Apr 7 2006, 05:18 AM

[tangawizi]

You completely missed the point - i will put it in bold 4 u.

The sound intellect tells us that when a man who performs miracles of Prophethood which can not be discredited tells us something, he is a Prophet.

Do you know what miracles of Prophethood which can not be discredited means?

It means they can not be discredited

Which means: they are miracles of Prophethood

Words words words... you are profoundly subjective. I ask you to experience, not try to discredit or believe anything told to you as truth or miracles.


Anyway, what's up with this clan, it's just a few of us cats here?

[pun187]

The Holy Quran,tells us that we shouldn't follow anyone or anything blindly!!! God provided us with the sight,hearing and intelligence!we should use them!

And follow not that of which thou hast no knowledge. Verily, the ear and the eye and the heart - all these shall be called to account.

[samsparky]

There used to be a man called Hitler.

Am I following blindly by saying that?

[tangawizi]

How old are you sparky?

[pancaindera]

The Holy Quran,tells us that we shouldn't follow anyone or anything blindly!!! God provided us with the sight,hearing and intelligence!we should use them!

im just curious. does that include 'anyone or anything' contained in the Holy Quran?
(sorry if i havent been following earlier posts)

[samsparky]

im just curious. does that include 'anyone or anything' contained in the Holy Quran?
(sorry if i havent been following earlier posts)

Following the Prophet is not blind - why? because he was supported with miracles that can not be discredited.

Hence, if following the Prophet is not blind, then following what he says is not blind either.
why? because you have good reason to follow it - he is a Prophet of God.

[pun187]

There used to be a man called Hitler.

Am I following blindly by saying that?

Your statement makes no sence!!!

Your following blindly if you think that Hitler was an atheist,just bc most of the ppl believe it.Now If you'd like to find the truth you'll investigate and read atleast "Mein Kampf" If you do so, you'll find out that Hitler was a Bible believing Christian,not only but he used Christianity to justify the evil he did against Jews and other ppl!

im just curious. does that include 'anyone or anything' contained in the Holy Quran?
(sorry if i havent been following earlier posts)

Following the Prophet is not blind - why? because he was supported with miracles that can not be discredited.

Hence, if following the Prophet is not blind, then following what he says is not blind either.
why? because you have good reason to follow it - he is a Prophet of God.

No! following blindly does not contain the Quran,but the Hadith,some of them were written ca. 200 years after the death of the Prophet (PBUH) and some of them contain even contradictions in it.So you have to verify them trough the Quran.Or you can't believe blindly in stories like"the Prophet(PBUH) met a "Jinn" from the time of Jesus(PBUH)" without verifying them trough the hadith or the Quran.

Will they not, then, try to understand this Qur’an? Had it issued from any but God, they would surely have found in it many an inner contradiction!(4:82)

This Verse shows that anything which is not in the Quran will have contradictions since the Quran was "divinely inspired". The Hadith has been shown to contain contradictions that either go against the Quran or don't follow it in some way.We're warned against it in the Holy Quran.

credits to ATL for providing us with the Verse and the last passage of my post.

This post has been edited by pun187: Apr 7 2006, 08:58 AM

[samsparky]

Your statement makes no sence!!!

Your following blindly if you think that Hitler was an atheist,just bc most of the ppl believe it.Now If you'd like to find the truth you'll investigate and read atleast "Mein Kampf" If you do so, you'll find out that Hitler was a Bible believing Christian,not only but he used Christianity to justify the evil he did against Jews and other ppl!

I'm not digging that deep.

I'm just asking you 1 simple question.

Is believing in the existence of a man called hitler in the past counted as following blindly or not?

If you are finding it difficult I can give u the answer :p

[pun187]

I'm not digging that deep.

I'm just asking you 1 simple question.

Is believing in the existence of a man called hitler in the past counted as following blindly or not?

If you are finding it difficult I can give u the answer :p

Without evidence,YES!!! But in Hitlers case we have documents,videos and Eye witnesses as evidences so NO!!!