The Ainu People of Japan, who are they? Options

[gangi788]

,,,

This post has been edited by gangi788: Feb 6 2009, 02:43 AM

[Adee]

so ainu are aryans like pakis & indians? or are they european caucasians that came from russia via the berring sea durin the ice age?

that one woman up there looks really east indian to me.

No no no, there're not caucasians or even related to them. They are more similar to native tribes in SE asia and Australian aborigines, but they are also quite different because they were islolated for so long.

[Najjiah]

No no no, there're not caucasians or even related to them. They are more similar to native tribes in SE asia and Australian aborigines, but they are also quite different because they were islolated for so long.

so they r aboriginals like the aetas of the philippines. hence the curly hair on sum of them. but they arent dark. another theory is that they are polynesians.

[azndood]

The ainu are one of the original inhabitants of the japanese islands. Genetically they are closer to mongoloid, while physically some have classified them to be causcoid. The japanese are mainly of two different stock, the older derived from Jomon, while the newer, Yayoi. As time passed the jomon were displaced more towards the northern(Hokkaido) and southern(Okinawan) extremeties of the islands, and the more dominant yayoi inhabits the central areas of japan. The average japanese is believed to be of 3/4 yayoi and 1/4 jomon. Where pale skin came from is debatable, for originally, the japanese aboriginals were more of a pacific islander stock, being darker, shorter, and different bone structure to that of the yayoi. The yayoi were paler, taller, and less hairsute than that of the jomon. I recommend reading Mark Hudson's Ruins of Identity: Ethnogenesis of the Japanese Islands, or Jared Diamonds article Japanese roots for more information of the Ainu.

[tree]

Perhaps the Ainu are a class of their own? (ie not Mongoloid, Caucasoid, etc.)

[bigboy]

all i know is japan hates being compared to koreans

[poonster]

the old man in the last pic looks like he's gonna murder someone with that katana;;

all i know is japan hates being compared to koreans

why's that? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif)

This post has been edited by poonster: Mar 23 2006, 06:08 PM

[MightyCrown]

why's that? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif)

oh great here we go again (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

Btw @Poonster, why did you said i stereotyped koreans in korean chat when i NEVER been in there before? Why you are lying? Why you doing that? sheesh man, i dont have anything against you. Why say bad untrue things about me? You are disappointing. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_confused.gif)

[Jarhier]

last time someone mentioned that japan's royal ancestor could have been korean, korean posters were ticked. it's not new that japanese dont want to assosiate with koreans either.

btw, what do japanese teach about their roots in japan or widely accepted?

[MightyCrown]

I see many foreigners imagine another Myth that Japanese "dont know past connections to Korea", but this another of your big misconceptions! Japanese are very aware of historical connections to Asia. So dont bash Japanese people again! Sheesh

In case you didnt know. Heisei Emperor already stated publically OFFICIALLY that some of his ancestors included some past aristocrats from Korean peninsula who immigrated to Japan many centuries ago, and he honors the Korean ancestors too.

In case you didnt know. History of Torai-jin, starting in 4th century, who immigrated from kingdoms of korean peninsula is studied in Japanese schools. After end of Koukuri and Kudara kingdoms after 7th century, many more took refuge in Japan to escape mainland wars & political problems, assimilated and contributed much to Japanese culture and development. This is old news to Japanese.

This is all included as standard history material in Japanese high school textbooks, understand?

But i notice you suspicious foreigners always have mistaken stereotype that Japanese education and textbooks is bad or erase Asian history connection? But that is NOT true, so stop negative propaganda, and stop bashing Japanese society! Whats the matter with you obsessed people?? Haa?? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

So yes, Japanese truly have historical connections and ancestory from mainland Asian areas, including Korean. More recent Japanese theories also suggested other migrations came from older groups from the South (Taiwan and North Philippines) and from the North (Sakhalin & Siberia). There was interesting tv documentary about this broadcast before by the government sponsored channel. (So even your imaginary "right wing" government agrees Japanese are Asians! Ha!) Some people also came from some Chinese dynasties as scholars, artists and monks. These many different migrations of different kinds of people from different directions, happened over many centuries, created many layers in Japanese ethnicity, and everyone mixed together in Japan, which formed a new base of unique people now called "Japanese".

So Japanese are definitely Asians too, understand?

This post has been edited by MightyCrown: Mar 23 2006, 08:28 PM

[bubbles20]

the Ainus are NOT caucasian and no japanese people do NOT look mixed with white and if they appear to, its NOT because of mixed ainu blood (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

the ainu make up a minority of the population anyway

[soltung]

ainu are mixed between australoid type people and proto-caucasian people who reached east asia through siberia...

actually there is also ainu admixture among koreans and other northeast asians...

[Najjiah]

omg... wtf happened to my thread?

isnt this about the ainu & not the korean/chinese/japanese war? and WHY r u guys arguing? do u have any idea how lucky u all are to be living in one of the most progressive & finacially sucessful nations in asia? all other countries look up to the big 3 - china, japan, and korea. quit bickering & pat urselves in the back.

ok, on with the ainu chat. my theory is that the earliest inhabitants of japan were probably aboriginals from the pacfic islands. observe the kinky hair and darker skin of the old man with the sword & afro. then eventually... the european caucasians came in from russia via the berring sea & bred with the aboriginals. hence the lighter skin, hairier than normal bodies, and taller frame. it created a whole new race that is what the ainu is today. they are CLEARLY not mongoloid. rather... if u observe, they r more eskimo/pacific islander looking.

[bubbles20]

yeah they do look sort of like pacific type of peoples
not sure about eskimos though.....alot of eskimos (inuits?) are very mongoloid looking (actually they ARE)

im not too sure about the russin imbreeding though
alot of austronoid people have alot of body hair genetically
it doesnt have to be a caucasian influence

either way, theres too many different speculations on the origins of the ainu people so who knows which theory is correct (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/shrug.gif)

[MightyCrown]

If you meet a few japanese who looks quite european, its because they probably are part european to some degree. But this is traced to MODERN recent immigration of some europeans to japan during the Meiji, Taisho, Showa periods from the 19th-20th centuries, when Japan rapidly opened, modernized itself, and imported many Western materials. During this time opportunistic Westerners came to Japan to profit from the newly growing economy. Some of this Westerners stayed in Japan permanently.

This has NOTHING to do with ainu and ancient archaology. Since the 19th century, there were Russian fishermen who settled in northern japanese towns in Hokkaido and intermarried, as well as French, Jewish and Germans in Kansai, or some Spanish and Dutch in Kyushu (though this is even older back to 16th-17th-18th centuries), and even decendents of 19th century American whalers in some pacific islands owned by Japan. These peoples descendants were usually assimilated into Japanese society. Though they personally kept their family records, diaries, photographs of their european ancestors from the past. But they are a small minority of Japanese, and not great in numbers.

Btw, if you didnt already know, that ridiculous theory that ainu are supposed to be "proto-caucasian" was imagined by White Western anthorpologists at the height of the European Imperialism and Colonialism era, so its theoretically connected to Eurocentric racist interpretation of non-white people. Those theories were developed by White racist anthroplogists who treated Asians, Native Americans, and Africans like cheap guinea pigs, by taking lots of nude pictures of Asians, measuring Asian skull sizes, measuring their Asian vagina and penis, dubious White "scientists" touching many Asian penises to check the thickness (talk about a supressed homoerotic racial fetish or what!), and basically treating Asians as less than civilized fodder for their scientific "curiosity". It was disgusting. This was standard anthropolgical practice back then, and connected to such thories that eventually influenced the infamous eugenics and racial supremacy theories in the late 19th century and early 20th century.

So if you are Asian or non-white, i hope you drop that "ainu=proto-caucasian" nonsense please. As mother always says: Dont put anything into your mouth unless you know where its been. That includes old racist theories invented by 19th century western Colonial anthropolgists.

This post has been edited by MightyCrown: Mar 23 2006, 10:03 PM

[Najjiah]

yeah they do look sort of like pacific type of peoples
not sure about eskimos though.....alot of eskimos (inuits?) are very mongoloid looking (actually they ARE)

im not too sure about the russin imbreeding though
alot of austronoid people have alot of body hair genetically
it doesnt have to be a caucasian influence

either way, theres too many different speculations on the origins of the ainu people so who knows which theory is correct (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/shrug.gif)

agrees wid miss bubbles. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggthumpup.gif)

too many theories & speculations & not enough genetic study.

[bubbles20]

If you meet a few japanese who looks quite european, its because they probably are part european to some degree.

i disagree (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_neutral.gif)
just because a japanese doesnt look like the stereotypical tyep, does NOT mean that they have european ancestry at all (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_neutral.gif)

too many theories & speculations & not enough genetic study.

very true (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[juwanFromTaiwan]

How so? Polynesian Islands are thousands of miles further down into the South East Pacific far from Japan.. you mean like a Guam or Micronesia right?

Japanese people do not look caucasian. They are too small and short for one thing. Some Japanese do look Polynesian though or maybe Philipino. No surprise since they're near the Polynesian islands.

[MightyCrown]

i disagree (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_neutral.gif)
just because a japanese doesnt look like the stereotypical tyep, does NOT mean that they have european ancestry at all (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_neutral.gif)

I didnt say in all cases. Yes, you are also correct. But the history of European migrants in Japan of the 19th and early 20th century is not well known outside Japan i think. But it is historical fact, and is one legitimate explanation of why a few rare Japanese looks unmistakeably European. This and the post-war American presence are the two biggest contributors. As i explained, most foreigners look at a euro-looking japanese, and they either think they are half-american because of the postwar US military situation (which is a reasonable assumption). Or they imagine they are being scientific by picking up that "ainu=protocaucasian" colonial stuff from the 19 century European imperial period (which is problematic). In any case, its a good idea at least to first see thousands of Japanese faces every day, every year, in your relatives, friends, and millions of strangers faces, at work, school, shopping, all over the place, all the time, before you make any bold generalistic statements about Japanese "racial origins". Watching some Japanese faces in movies, exchange students and tourists really arent enough.. Though, yes its not always absolutely clear. Even the modern archaeolgists and specialists debate this stuff at their conferences without always agreeing with each other. whatever. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by MightyCrown: Mar 23 2006, 09:59 PM

[blob]

What's the population size of the Ainus in Japan?