Australia, Is it really Indonesia's reliable neighbour? Options

[Bohemian]

This is news from 28 March 2006. I honestly am confused to the approaches Australia has taken towards Indonesia.. is it actually an honest neighbour of Indonesia??

Government 'won't cut ties' with Australia
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Indonesia has no plans to sever diplomatic ties with Australia because it granted refugee status to a group of Papuans, a presidential spokesman says.

Dino Patti Djalil described nationalists' demands for the country to end relations with its southern neighbor as "unrealistic". A move to increase tensions with Australia would only play into the hands of Papuan separatists, he added.

"It just won't happen. This is what they (separatists) want ... President (Susilo Bambang) Yudhoyono has made it very clear that relations will remain as is."

Last week, Australia granted temporary protection visas to 42 of 43 Papuans who arrived by boat at Cape York in January, sparking an angry reaction here.

Despite forging a cordial rapport with Australian Prime Minister John Howard, Yudhoyono has not contacted his counterpart since the visa issue broke last week. On Friday, the country recalled its ambassador from Australia to clarify the issue.

Australia has played down the issue as a case-by-case decision by immigration officials. Australian Ambassador to Indonesia Bill Farmer stressed the move did not signal a departure from Canberra's recognition of Indonesia's territorial integrity.

Speaking after a meeting with Indonesian Minister of Defense Juwono Sudarsono, Farmer on Monday said he understood Indonesia's sensitivities over the issue. However, he emphasized that Australia was obliged by domestic and international law to review the asylum claims.

"You may have seen reports that some private individuals, some organizations in Australia have views about Papua (independence), but they are not the same as the Australian government's," said the former Australian immigration chief.

Farmer's attempt to smooth over the worst incident between the neighbors since 1999 came as Indonesia postponed signing an agreement on Australian assistance to fight bird flu with A$10 million of funding.

"This postponement is linked to the granting of the visas," Lalu Mara Satria Wangsa, from the public welfare minister's office, told Agence France-Presse.

"The government has one voice on this," Lalu said, adding that the agreement would be signed when "diplomatic relations are more conducive".

Indonesian officials have questioned the speedy issuance of the visas to the Papuans after those of Afghan and Iranian asylum seekers applications were rejected.

Responding to the accusations of favoritism, Farmer said Australia had granted visas to nearly 90 percent of illegal visitors seeking asylum from the two countries during the past eight years.

Protests over the visas were reported in three cities here Monday.

Two separate rallies involved several hundred chanting protesters massing outside the Australian Embassy in Jakarta. Protesters waved placards with slogans, including "Go to hell Australia, the devil needs you there!"

"Don't turn Papua into a second East Timor," one of the demonstrators told ElShinta radio.

The protesters also threw paint at the embassy's coat of arms and scrawled graffiti saying "Get out of Indonesia immediately" and "Australia f***."

When asked about these rallies, Farmer said: "There are peaceful demonstrations and (Indonesian) people are exercising their rights (in a democracy)."

In the House of Representatives, People's Consultative Assembly Speaker Hidayat Nur Wahid of the Prosperous Justice Party said Australia must show clearly where it stood on the Papuan issue.

"Australia must choose between two: Maintain bilateral ties with Indonesia, or have a relationship with the 42 Papuans raising the banner of the Free Papua Movement," he said,

Foreign relations observer Dewi Fortuna Anwar said the government should go further than just recalling its ambassador.

"The government can also temporarily halt all cooperation with the Australian government," she said.

Dewi suggested Indonesia could retaliate by opening its borders to allow more refugees to flood into Australia.

***

[jason76]

I see. It's annoying how they say Australia this Australia that. It should be the Liberal Government this or Howard that. You know how it goes!!

[Kopassus]

You can not thrust them....sebelum krismon mereka mau tandatangani pact untuk kerja sama dengan Indonesia dalam bidang pertahan dan keamanan. Tapi waktu tahun 1999 mereka masuk Tim2 sama Interfet. Australia juga kadang2 masuk wilayah Indonesia sm pesawat intai atau jet tempur...

[Bohemian]

You can not thrust them....sebelum krismon mereka mau tandatangani pact untuk kerja sama dengan Indonesia dalam bidang pertahan dan keamanan. Tapi waktu tahun 1999 mereka masuk Tim2 sama Interfet. Australia juga kadang2 masuk wilayah Indonesia sm pesawat intai atau jet tempur...

Kalau "hanya" soal masuk ke wilayah udara kita sih, saya rasa sudah sering sekali, apalagi pada saat RI lemah begini. Bukan cuma pesawat, tapi juga kapal perang. Dan bukan cuma di wilayah Timur.

That's why I asked "are they actually honest in building friendship with Indonesia"?

Because, of course, if Indonesia would be torn apart into pieces, Australia would be able to expand its influence in the region.

Bukan begitu?

[forrestcat]

From my observation, Australians have a bad perception of Indonesia through their their media.

Recently, the Age made a report of how corrupt Indonesian government sell wide areas of pristine rainforest which meant the destruction of flora and fauna and homes of the indigeous habitant to make way for a gold mine in West Papua. They also made interviews with some local activists who yearns for an independent West Papua.......hehe...like a Malay proverb....'there's a shrimp hiding behind the rock' or something smells fishy..
we have seen Timor Leste and OZ got the oil field.... and i guess they also want the gold mine in Papua(?)..too

[Kopassus]

Kalau "hanya" soal masuk ke wilayah udara kita sih, saya rasa sudah sering sekali, apalagi pada saat RI lemah begini. Bukan cuma pesawat, tapi juga kapal perang. Dan bukan cuma di wilayah Timur.

That's why I asked "are they actually honest in building friendship with Indonesia"?

Because, of course, if Indonesia would be torn apart into pieces, Australia would be able to expand its influence in the region.

Bukan begitu?

Exactly!
And indeed, broadcast companies like ABC always tells bad things about Indonesia, or make it worser than it is.( Maaf, Bahasa Inggris sy kurang bagus) Beberapa tahun baru, 2001, perna ada demo di Jkt. Waktu itu hanya 200-300 mahasiswa yg unjuk rasa, tapi ABC reporter bercerita bahwa situasi di Jkt sdg bereskalasi, chaos, anarchy dll...
Dari dulu mereka Indonesiafobi

[Bohemian]

Exactly!
And indeed, broadcast companies like ABC always tells bad things about Indonesia, or make it worser than it is.( Maaf, Bahasa Inggris sy kurang bagus) Beberapa tahun baru, 2001, perna ada demo di Jkt. Waktu itu hanya 200-300 mahasiswa yg unjuk rasa, tapi ABC reporter bercerita bahwa situasi di Jkt sdg bereskalasi, chaos, anarchy dll...
Dari dulu mereka Indonesiafobi

My only question is: WHY??

[AzN_Magik]

Australia is the US wanna be in Asia

[purnomor]

My only question is: WHY??

As a relatively insignificant white country locked in a mostly non-white area of the world, Australia always want to emulate the imperialist exploits of their white American and British masters to placate their insecurities. Little Australians realise, they have no influence and exerts no power over its stronger northern neighbours.

Second explanation, many Australians have grudge with Indonesia over the 92 Australians killed by Bali bombing, and they view Indonesia as "Muslim enemy".

As what Indonesians view Australia, here is a nice cartoon:

[jason76]

As a relatively insignificant white country locked in a mostly non-white area of the world, Australia always want to emulate the imperialist exploits of their white American and British masters to placate their insecurities. Little Australians realise, they have no influence and exerts no power over its stronger northern neighbours.

Wow purnomor,
I think you may have been upset when you entered this comment?
I know that even you that this is BS.

Second explanation, many Australians have grudge with Indonesia over the 92 Australians killed by Bali bombing, and they view Indonesia as "Muslim enemy".

Definately must of had a bad hair day. Who are these many Australians? The media? The white trash that abused you at the train station on this day? Who upset ya mate? There really wouldn't be that many.

The good thing about Aussie's is that we can move on. Not like some other sensitive countries that i won't mention.

This post has been edited by jason76: Mar 31 2006, 01:47 AM

[jason76]

Australia is the US wanna be in Asia

LOL! It's true though!

BUT remember Australia, the U.S.A and Britain are all good old mates. $hit, we are even related to each other!!

This post has been edited by jason76: Mar 31 2006, 01:53 AM

[tangawizi]

Hmmmmm...... if Australia is not a reliable neighbour of Indonesia, and its people are still pissed off abt the Bali bombing of its citizens, why would they commit A$1bn in aid to Indonesia in the aftermath of the 2004 tsunami?

Is it really unreasonable of Australia to offer asylums to these refugees pending investigations of genocide claims in the Irian Jaya province? Genocide is a serious crime against humanity and such claims should be scrutinised closely, do you agree?

[tangawizi]

See paper suggesting that evidence that the Indonesian government has
committed acts against the West Papuans in violation of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide and the customary international law prohibition this Convention embodies.

http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html/Publi...apuahrights.pdf

I am not pro-Australia nor anti-Indo but there are some objective issues which the Indo government should address clearly rather than make sweeping statements that these West Papuans are merely economic refugees.. Even if they are so, they should be allowed to migrate peacefully, as thousands of economic refugees try to do so each day.

If Australia has ulterior motives in encouraging insurgency in W Papua, then the Indonesian government should outsmart these Ozzies in the propaganda. Show the world and most of all, the W Papuans that they can govern W Papua with a benign hand.

[furansizuka]

[color=#3333FF]
That's why I asked "are they actually honest in building friendship with Indonesia"?color]

I'm not sure.

[tangawizi]

Sorry, I shd be calling it West Irian, instead of West Papua on this forum. M'aaf!

[purnomor]

Wow purnomor,
I think you may have been upset when you entered this comment?

Nah mate. Don't worry, I am not upset, although I like most other Indonesians are displeased by Australia's decision to give asylum to Papuan separatists, thereby making Australia a safe haven for them to plot harm on Indonesia.

It is quite clear Australia, being a white country, insecurely views its northern neighbours with suspicion and trepadition. Ever since Australia was created, it always act in slavish manner towards Britain and later United States as stronger fellow white countries, in order to gain their protection from the northern "peril". During WWII, it was the Japanese. Later, Australia invited itself into Vietnam War to ensure US that Australia is a true American ally (as PM Harold Holt put it, Australia was "all the way with LBJ [American president Lyndon Baines Johnson])". Paul Keating had a brilliant idea of putting to rest these insecurities by making Australia "a part of Asia". But, John Howard killed this policy and returned to the old sucking-up to USA, a fellow white country. Hence, Australia send soldiers to Iraq and maintain them there despite most other US "allies" having withdrawn their contingents.

On Indonesia, it is clear many Australians have pretty bizarre ideas, such as that Indonesia is "completely dependent" on Australian aid, while the fact is Indonesia is not even dependent on IMF. Hence, they have exaggerated sense of importance in Indonesian affairs.

Definately must of had a bad hair day. Who are these many Australians? The media? The white trash that abused you at the train station on this day? Who upset ya mate? There really wouldn't be that many.

I attain this conclusion after viewing many popular Australian forums and news blogs, where people really speak what they really think.

The good thing about Aussie's is that we can move on. Not like some other sensitive countries that i won't mention.

I wonder how and exactly when Australia get over the Bali bombings?

[purnomor]

See paper suggesting that evidence that the Indonesian government has
committed acts against the West Papuans in violation of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide and the customary international law prohibition this Convention embodies.

http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html/Publi...apuahrights.pdf

I am not pro-Australia nor anti-Indo but there are some objective issues which the Indo government should address clearly rather than make sweeping statements that these West Papuans are merely economic refugees.. Even if they are so, they should be allowed to migrate peacefully, as thousands of economic refugees try to do so each day.

If Australia has ulterior motives in encouraging insurgency in W Papua, then the Indonesian government should outsmart these Ozzies in the propaganda. Show the world and most of all, the W Papuans that they can govern W Papua with a benign hand.

In 1961, native Papuan population was estimated to be 600,000. Today, there are about 1.2 million native Papuans, forming 50% of total population of West Irian Jaya and Papua provinces. Since under Indonesian rule, the native Papuan population actually doubles, it is clear no "genocide" ever happened there.

Indeed that "Yale report" never claim to have evidence of any "genocide", but SPECULATES that such genocide "might be possible". In other words, this report is just bollocks aka bullcrap. Another weakness of this report is that it completely depends on sources written by TAPOL, an organisation run by a British member of PKI (Indonesian Communist Party) Carmel Budiardjo. This means this report is completely biased as it was solely based on claims made by an ex-communist who is motivated by irrational hatred over Indonesia's rejection of communism in 1965.

In the cultural front, native Papuan culture is far more preserved in Indonesia than in neighbouring PNG. Due to Australian misrule, PNG is now classified as a failed state with no semblance of law and order with a completely ineffectual government. PNG's capital Port Moresby is consistently rated as the most unlivable city in the world, with armed criminal gangsters called raskols ruling the streets; robbing, murdering, and raping at will. In the countryside, native PNG culture has been severely destroyed by uncontrolled distibution of drugs, alcohol, and guns. Meanwhile, Indonesian govt is wise enough to ban these destructive materials from entering West Irian Jaya and Papua provinces.

Meanwhile, these "asylum seekers" are self-proclaimed Papuan separatists. The intention of their journey to Australia is to create a dirty propaganda against Indonesia to further their separatist agenda.

[GluTTony]

I picture in my mind

Indonesia is a Girl and Australia is a guy that likes to godain(flirt) her

This post has been edited by GluTTony: Apr 2 2006, 09:30 PM

[jason76]

I attain this conclusion after viewing many popular Australian forums and news blogs, where people really speak what they really think.

mate,

please never ever rely on internet based information. the people who come up with this crap most of the time are on drugs or are spoilt rich kids with too much time on their hands and etc.

thanks tangawizi- has provided us with some good points.

I'm not saying Australias perfect, cause I know it's not.

BTW was anyone in forrrest chase Perth? you would of seen me walk up to the protesting (Indonesia out of West.PNG) hippies and say out loud "we should give Australia back to the Aboriginals then?" and then seeing them all look dumbfounded. bunch of idiots. LOL.

I wonder how and exactly when Australia get over the Bali bombings?

Oh don't worry, the families of the victims will never get over it ... mate.

Indonesia should have a big meeting with all the countries big wigs and say OK things are going to change in Irian, we're going to treat the people better and etc. And we're learning this from Australia's experiances and treatment of their original inhabitants. lol

This post has been edited by jason76: Apr 3 2006, 01:05 AM

[purnomor]

^ Hopefully you're right. What is certain Australian foreign policy will always copy American position. Australia has no power to create its own foreign policy that diverged even a bit from America. As long as Indonesia in a good relations with USA as it is now, Australian govt wouldn't do anything dumb in relation with Indonesia.