Russian Atrocities in Northeastern china and part of korea?, So what happend in Germany and Eastern Europe. Options

[beronis]

Hiya, just wonder if anyone from china knows about the
Russian Red army and its particular conduct in rapes in northeast
china, when they defeated japanese imperial army.

I'll post some references that they did in East Europe. They did
it very widely from Poland, Hungary to Germany, and it's
not much obscure fact anymore.

Any info you know would be useful. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/confused.gif)

Red Army rapists exposed

By Chris Summers
BBC News Online

Red Army soldiers raped two million German women, and thousands of
Soviet women in occupied Eastern Europe, says a book published on
Monday. (...)

The author of Berlin: The Downfall 1945, the acclaimed military
historian Antony Beevor, also suggests that after brutalisation in
extreme war situations almost all men are tempted to become rapists.

But the book has been condemned as an "act of blasphemy" by the
Russian ambassador to the UK and its conclusions have also been
rejected by a prominent Russian military historian.

Mr Beevor, whose previous book Stalingrad became a best-seller, says
in Berlin alone it was estimated up to 130,000 women were raped, of
whom up to 10,000 committed suicide.

Altogether two million German women are believed to have been raped
and almost half of those suffered gang rape.

One woman was raped by 23 soldiers.

...

The professor said 4,148 Red Army officers and many privates were
"punished" for committing atrocities.

Professor Evan Mawdsley, a historian from Glasgow University, said it
was not the first time women had become "carnal booty" in time of war.

Professor Richard Overy, a historian from King's College London, said
the Russians had never faced up to the atrocities committed by the
Red Army.

He said: "Partly this is because they felt that much of it was
justified vengeance against an enemy who committed much worse, and
partly it was because they were writing the victors' history."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...4/ixworld.html
It was not until the winter of 1946-47 that the Soviet authorities, concerned by the spread of disease, imposed serious penalties on their forces in East Germany for fraternising with the enemy.

Soviet soldiers saw rape, often carried out in front of a woman's husband and family, as an appropriate way of humiliating the Germans, who had treated Slavs as an inferior race with whom sexual relations were discouraged. Russia's patriarchal society and the habit of binge-drinking were also factors, but more important was resentment at the discovery of Germany's comparative wealth.

The fact, highlighted by Beevor, that Soviet troops raped not only Germans but also their victims, recently liberated from concentration camps, suggests that the sexual violence was often indiscriminate, although far fewer Russian or Polish women were raped when their areas were liberated compared to the conquered Germans.

Jews, however, were not necessarily regarded by Soviet troops as fellow victims of the Nazis. The Soviet commissars had commandeered German concentration camps in order to incarcerate their own political prisoners, who included "class enemies" as well as Nazi officials, and their attitude towards the previous inmates was, to say the least, unsentimental.

As for the millions of Russian prisoners or slave workers who survived the Nazis: those who were not executed as traitors or sent to the Gulag could count themselves lucky. The women among them were probably treated no better than the Germans, perhaps worse.

The rape of Germany left a bitter legacy. It contributed to the unpopularity of the East German communist regime and its consequent reliance on the Stasi secret police. The victims themselves were permanently traumatised: women of the wartime generation still refer to the Red Army war memorial in Berlin as "the Tomb of the Unknown Rapist".

http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs9512d.html
As the Red Army advanced toward her in 1945, the city of Berlin had become a city virtually without men. Out of a civilian population of 2,700,000, 2,000,000 were women. It is small wonder that the fear of sexual attack raced through the city like a plague. Doctors were besieged by patients seeking information on the quickest way to commit suicide, and poison was in great demand.

In Berlin stood a charity institution, the Haus Dehlem, an orphanage, maternity hospital, and foundling home. Soviet soldiers entered the home, and repeatedly raped pregnant women and women who had just given birth. This was not an isolated incident. No one will ever know how many women were raped, but doctors' estimates run as high as 100,000 for the city of Berlin alone, their ages ranging from 10 to 70.

On March 24, 1945, our "noble Soviet allies" entered Danzig. A 50-year-old Danzig teacher reported that her niece, 15, was raped seven times, and her other niece, 22, was raped fifteen times. A Soviet officer told a group of women to seek safety in the Cathedral. Once they were securely locked inside, the beasts of Bolshevism entered, and ringing the bells and playing the organ, "celebrated" a foul orgy through the night, raping all the women, some more than thirty times. A Catholic pastor in Danzig declared, "They violated even eight-year-old girls and shot boys who tried to shield their mothers."

The Most Reverend Bernard Griffin, British Archbishop, made a tour of Europe to study conditions there, and reported, "In Vienna alone they raped 100,000 women, not once but many times, including girls not yet in their teens, and aged women."

A Lutheran pastor in Germany, in a letter of August 7, 1945, to the Bishop of Chichester, England, describes how a fellow pastor's "two daughters and a grandchild (ten years of age) suffer from gonorrhea, [as a] result of rape" and how "Mrs. N. was killed when she resisted an attempt to rape her," while her daughter was "raped and deported, allegedly to Omsk, Siberia, for indoctrination."

The day after our noble Soviet allies conquered Neisse, Silesia, 182 Catholic nuns were raped. In the diocese of Kattowitz 66 pregnant nuns were counted. In one convent when the Mother Superior and her assistant tried to protect the younger nuns with outstretched arms, they were shot down. A priest reported in Nord Amerika magazine for November 1, 1945, that he knew "several villages where all the women, even the aged and girls as young as twelve, were violated daily for weeks by the Russians."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0...707835,00.html
Calls to avenge the Motherland, violated by the Wehrmacht's invasion, had given the idea that almost any cruelty would be allowed. Even many young women soldiers and medical staff in the Red Army did not appear to disapprove. "Our soldiers' behaviour towards Germans, particularly German women, is absolutely correct!" said a 21-year-old from Agranenko's reconnaissance detachment. A number seemed to find it amusing. Several German women recorded how Soviet servicewomen watched and laughed when they were raped. But some women were deeply shaken by what they witnessed in Germany. Natalya Gesse, a close friend of the scientist Andrei Sakharov, had observed the Red Army in action in 1945 as a Soviet war correspondent. "The Russian soldiers were raping every German female from eight to eighty," she recounted later. "It was an army of rapists."

Drink of every variety, including dangerous chemicals seized from laboratories and workshops, was a major factor in the violence. It seems as if Soviet soldiers needed alcoholic courage to attack a woman. But then, all too often, they drank too much and, unable to complete the act, used the bottle instead with appalling effect. A number of victims were mutilated obscenely.

The subject of the Red Army's mass rapes in Germany has been so repressed in Russia that even today veterans refuse to acknowledge what really happened. The handful prepared to speak openly, however, are totally unrepentant. "They all lifted their skirts for us and lay on the bed," said the leader of one tank company. He even went on to boast that "two million of our children were born" in Germany.

The capacity of Soviet officers to convince themselves that most of the victims were either happy with their fate, or at least accepted that it was their turn to suffer after what the Wehrmacht had done in Russia, is striking. "Our fellows were so sex-starved," a Soviet major told a British journalist at the time, "that they often raped old women of sixty, seventy or even eighty - much to these grandmothers' surprise, if not downright delight."

One can only scratch at the surface of the psychological contradictions. When gang-raped women in Königsberg begged their attackers afterwards to put them out of their misery, the Red Army men appear to have felt insulted. "Russian soldiers do not shoot women," they replied. "Only German soldiers do that." The Red Army had managed to convince itself that because it had assumed the moral mission to liberate Europe from fascism it could behave entirely as it liked, both personally and politically.

This post has been edited by beronis: Apr 1 2006, 02:53 AM

[three_kingdoms]

ugh. i feel like throwing up now. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/pukeface.gif)

[beronis]

ugh. i feel like throwing up now. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/pukeface.gif)

If you like, I have more of these...


SOVIET RAPES IN BERLIN: UNKNOWN TOTAL

The official figures for Berlin rapes by Soviet troops does exist but has never been published. However, Berlin’s former mayor, Ernst Reuter, said that the figure given him was 90,000. In 1945, Berlin had a population of some 2,700,000 of which about 2,000,000 were women. Many rapes of course were never reported and the figure of 90,000 includes only hospitalized cases and doctors reports. Some 10,000 women in Berlin died as a result of rape. The death rate was thought to have been much higher among the 1.4 million estimated victims in East Prussia, Silesia and Pomerania. Doctors were besieged by women seeking information on the best way to commit suicide. A charity institution, orphanage and maternity hospital, 'Haus Dehlem ' was forcibly entered by second line Russian troops and pregnant women and women who had just given birth were repeatedly raped. In the Soviet Zone of Germany nearly 90% of females ages between 10 and 80 were raped in what undoubtedly was the largest case of mass rape in history. This included women expelled from the eastern provinces.

Most German children born in Berlin in 1946 were the result of rape. Women and young girls were forcibly dragged from their homes and raped, the drunken Soviet Mongolian soldiers queuing up to await their turn. For two whole weeks these mass rapes of women continued. Some Jewish women, thinking that their nationality would save them, showed their identity cards to the rapists but none of them could even read. Marshal Zhukov issued orders that any soldier caught in the act of rape after the two week period was up, was to be shot on the spot. Many a Russian soldier met his end this way. Between 1942 and 1945, a total of 2,420 rapes were reported in England, 3,620 in France and more than 11,040 in Germany. No US soldier was ever executed for rape in Germany. As one GI wrote ' Many a sane American family would recoil in horror if they knew how 'our boys' over here conduct themselves'. The only way many German mothers could keep their children from starving was to become a mistress to one of the occupying troops. (It is estimated that around two million German women had undergone an illegal abortion in the three years after the war ended)

[Suijen]

What the fu-k was up with them?

[ZhengHe1421]

somebody post up a thread about german atrocities in the soviet union.

[beronis]

What the fu-k was up with them?

Hey, that's what I'm asking. OOps.. I didn't write my question...

I wanted to ask if you know anything about Soviet troops in Northeast china
in 1945, when they enter Manchuria to defeat japanese army.

I heard Soviet soldiers raped many japanese females regardless of ages,
but also heard that they did not discriminate chinese women.

This post has been edited by beronis: Apr 1 2006, 02:51 AM

[Suijen]

^ We were not the enemy.

[three_kingdoms]

If you like, I have more of these...

wth? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

man, that part about raping 80 year old women, and saying they "enjoyed" it was really disgusting.

[beronis]

^ We were not the enemy.

If you read the quote up there, they raped Polish/Hungarian women, and
even Ukrainian women who was in the forced labor for German.

[tinman01]

^ We were not the enemy.

Nor was hungry,poland or romania.

[beronis]

Oh found one pic. there you go. I'll delete this later as it's too offensive for the discussion forum

(IMG:http://www.psywarrior.com/GuardyourHome.jpg)
The above leaflet was released in both Chinese and Korean versions. There was a note on the Korean version stating “This is a United Nations message to the Communist Chinese forces. Post it for them to see.” The Chinese version depicts a Chinese woman being raped by a horrific looking Russian soldier while two other soldiers hold another poor woman prisoner while they wait their turn. The message, intended for Chinese soldiers fighting in Korea, was for them to stop fighting and return to China to "Guard your Homes and Protect Your Country."

The text on the front to the left of the vignette is:

Don’t forget the shame inflicted upon the Chinese people during the Soviet advance into Northeast China during the autumn of 1945. Even Chinese mothers and sisters did not escape!

Russia is still walking boldly there.

Guard your homes and protect your country against continued Soviet aggression.

This leaflet might not be just the usual propaganda. One non-forgiving Korean now living in the United States told me:

When the Soviet Soldiers entered North Korea in 1945, they committed terrible rapes and other crimes as they had in the other occupied countries in Eastern Europe and Manchuria. The Soviet Union deployed penal soldiers in the front lines as the expendable undesirables. They were the most despicable sub-humans and deserved to be killed.

[beronis]

wth? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

man, that part about raping 80 year old women, and saying they "enjoyed" it was really disgusting.

Millions of women victims raped by Russian soldiers during the last months of World War II. Anthony Beevor's book "Berlin -- The Downfall 1945" documents rape by Russian soldiers. "Beevor's conclusions are that in response to the vast scale of casualties inflicted on them by the Germans the Soviets responded in kind, and that included rape on a vast scale. It started as soon as the Red Army entered East Prussia and Silesia in 1944, and in many towns and villages every female aged from 10 to 80 was raped." The author "was 'shaken to the core' to discover that even their own Russian and Polish women and girls liberated from German concentration camps were also violated." He estimates that "a 'high proportion' of at least 15 million women who lived in the Soviet zone or were expelled from Germany's eastern provinces were raped." Until recent years, East German women from the World War II era referred to the Red Army war memorial in Berlin as "the Tomb of the Unknown Rapist."


++++++++++++++

so they raped about estimated 15 million East European women + 2 million German women. Am I right in caluculations?
This figure could be mumbo jumbo, though.

[beronis]

I don't have figure at the moment, but in case of japanese women from age 6 to 80, most of them living in Manchuria
were raped, or gang raped by Soviet Soldier, just like what happened in East Europe. But the mystery is chinese and korean people living in that region at the time. Do you have any idea?

[tinman01]

The irony of WWII is it was a war as much about broken treaties as axis v.s allied powers. England France and the USSR all ignored mutual defence treaties signed with countries like Poland Hungry and Romania. Had the 3 major powers in Europe honered the treaties WWII may have been a footnote in history. The USSR paid the price for getting in bed with Hitler when Stalin signed the nonagression pact with Germany. None of the above countries reacted when Germany started breaking the cease fire treaties of WWI. As a result Germany became the military power the treaty was meant to prevent. The USA has some blame as they tried to stay out of the conflict pretending it was someone elses problem. Had Japan waited even 1 year to attack even The USA's industrial might may have been overcome. But could haves and would haves equal the same thing. 10 pounds of BS in a 5 pound sack. The USSR never had to answer up because they were on the winning side. Every country had men in uniform commit crimes. But only a few on a large scale.

[beronis]

The irony of WWII is it was a war as much about broken treaties as axis v.s allied powers. England France and the USSR all ignored mutual defence treaties signed with countries like Poland Hungry and Romania. Had the 3 major powers in Europe honered the treaties WWII may have been a footnote in history. The USSR paid the price for getting in bed with Hitler when Stalin signed the nonagression pact with Germany. None of the above countries reacted when Germany started breaking the cease fire treaties of WWI. As a result Germany became the military power the treaty was meant to prevent. The USA has some blame as they tried to stay out of the conflict pretending it was someone elses problem. Had Japan waited even 1 year to attack even The USA's industrial might may have been overcome. But could haves and would haves equal the same thing. 10 pounds of BS in a 5 pound sack. The USSR never had to answer up because they were on the winning side. Every country had men in uniform commit crimes. But only a few on a large scale.

so you knew this? aren;t there any more info in china?

[tinman01]

so you knew this? aren;t there any more info in china?

I knew the history of the east european side of the war and of Japans crimes. I wasn't really sure about china though. I do know this as far as history is concerned Russia has never been known for its compassion or its ability to abide by treaties .

[cathay]

The irony of WWII is it was a war as much about broken treaties as axis v.s allied powers. England France and the USSR all ignored mutual defence treaties signed with countries like Poland Hungry and Romania. Had the 3 major powers in Europe honered the treaties WWII may have been a footnote in history. The USSR paid the price for getting in bed with Hitler when Stalin signed the nonagression pact with Germany. None of the above countries reacted when Germany started breaking the cease fire treaties of WWI. As a result Germany became the military power the treaty was meant to prevent. The USA has some blame as they tried to stay out of the conflict pretending it was someone elses problem. Had Japan waited even 1 year to attack even The USA's industrial might may have been overcome. But could haves and would haves equal the same thing. 10 pounds of BS in a 5 pound sack. The USSR never had to answer up because they were on the winning side. Every country had men in uniform commit crimes. But only a few on a large scale.

When major wars break out, all hell breaks loose. The Berlin Rape is a old story. It was also how Russians make revenge on Germans, since Russia lost something like 20 millions people in WW2. On the flip side, Japanese should be really grateful how Chinese conducted themselves after the war. A lot of Chinese even adopted Japanese children left behind by thier parents in Manchuria.

[beronis]

When major wars break out, all hell breaks loose. The Berlin Rape is a old story. It was also how Russians make revenge on Germans, since Russia lost something like 20 millions people in WW2. On the flip side, Japanese should be really grateful how Chinese conducted themselves after the war. A lot of Chinese even adopted Japanese children left behind by thier parents in Manchuria.

That's true. Chinese soldiers were probably ranked the noblest given the loss done by imperial japanese army. It was strange that Russian revenged for the sake of chinese. But the idea of mass rapes by Russian is horrific. I'd never want hear anyone condoning them.

[beronis]

Jews did also revenge on German. From 1945 to 1950, German POW death ratio was about 50%, and Stalins appointed jewish officer to search the ex-Nazis, and torture them.

Anne O'Hare McCormick, in her column in the New York Times of February 4, 1946, compared what the Poles were doing to the Germans to Nazi cruelties, and Congressman B. Carroll Reece, of Tennessee, in the House of Representatives on May 16 1957, called it genocide.
Of the Germans who'd lived in Poland and Poland-administered Germany after the war, I calculate that by 1950 approximately 1,467,700 died.

This post has been edited by beronis: Apr 1 2006, 06:03 AM

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