Russian Atrocities in Northeastern china and part of korea?, So what happend in Germany and Eastern Europe. Options

[Anda]

(IMG:http://rkka.ru/maps/tv25.gif)

Good map. I save it

[beronis]

hahahaha.

it is not your problem, you idiot.

learn first to respect other people and their ancestors.

Men! what a rasisitic moron!

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

Yes, Soviet soldier's atrocity, raping and looting, is not my problem.

[danoc]

Yes, Soviet soldier's atrocity, raping and looting, is not my problem.

dont rape my words.

you rasistic moron.

Why are you so desperate on this one? Are you Russian half or quarter?]

hahahaha.

it is not your problem, you idiot.

learn first to respect other people and their ancestors.

Men! what a rasisitic moron!

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at: Anda

if you want i can send you more.

[ANAND]

my friend, who do you have problem with? Is that Russian who does not treat you as equal?
We are asian, man. why not be more nice to your fellow asian?

I don't know why you have to feel defending Russian atrocities, namely rapes and gang rapes.

fellow Asian? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bawling.gif) I am so touched. fu-k (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_twisted.gif) What a lame concept. Maybe it is useful for you to cheat other asians like SEA, certainly not for me. I don't know any Russian, but i can't stand ONE like you. You destroys your fellow countrymen's good image

Rape and other crime should be dealt individually, not like you generalizing

This post has been edited by ANAND: Apr 4 2006, 02:15 PM

[beronis]

fellow Asian? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bawling.gif) I am so touched. fu-k (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_twisted.gif) What a lame concept. Maybe it is useful for you to cheat other asians like SEA, certainly not for me. I don't know any Russian, but i can't stand ONE like you. You destroys your fellow countrymen's good image

Rape and other crime should be dealt individually, not like you generalizing

Not in the case of mass rapes like Rape of Nanjing. Berlin rapes were also mass rapes, and they shouldn't be dealt individually.

This post has been edited by beronis: Apr 4 2006, 02:20 PM

[danoc]

Not in the case of mass rapes like Rape of Nanjing.

and now you insult all people who were killed by rasistic and fasisitc japanese forces in nanking and china.

you abuse their feeling for your own rasistic and nationalistc agendas.

how cruel, you idiot.

Berlin rapes were also mass rapes, and they shouldn't be dealt individually.

why do you talk all time about Berlin?

are you german?

This post has been edited by danoc: Apr 4 2006, 02:26 PM

[beronis]

and now you insult all people who weas killed by rasistic and fasisitc japanese forces in nanking and china.

you abuse their feeling for your own rasistic and nationalistc agendas.

how cruel, you idiot.

why do you talk all time about Berlin?

are you german?

Your friend said, rapes should be dealt individually. That's why I sais, not in the case of mass rapes.

Example of mass rapes in Berlin are reported in BBC, Guardian, and many other sources. and widely known even i n Russia.

Rape and other crime should be dealt individually, not like you generalizing

Please answer me in relation to the rapes of Nanjing. How could mass rapes be regarded as just an individual crime?

This post has been edited by beronis: Apr 4 2006, 02:27 PM

[danoc]

Your friend said, rapes should be dealt individually. That's why I sais, not in the case of mass rapes.

Example of mass rapes in Berlin are reported in BBC, Guardian, and many other sources. and widely known even i n Russia.

please?

"masse rapes" must be arrange and decrees.
for exsample: as nazis wehrmacht have invade into ukraian territories, many german soldiers have rape many ukraian and soviet women. and 9 month later they have send their illigal children into "arier" orphanage and their mothers into Dachau and other KZ in Ukraina and Poland.
that all with ok and order of hitler and himler.

can you please tell me, where you have found about that russian forces have give order for mass rapes in Berlin?

and why do you talk here in chinese chat about european part of WW2?



you talk like german nazi and revachist.
you use their politican and propaganda tactics for your statements.
you talk like german.

are you german or not?

This post has been edited by danoc: Apr 4 2006, 02:39 PM

[beronis]

please?

"masse rapes" must be arrange and decrees.
for exsample: as nazis wehrmacht have invade into ukraian territories, many german soldiers have rape many ukraian and russian women. and 9 month later they have send their illigal children into "arier" orphanage and their mothers into Dachau and other KZ in Ukraina and Poland.
that all with ok and order of hitler and himler.

can you please tell me, where you have found about that russian forces have give order for mass rapes in Berlin?

and why do you talk here in chinese chat about european part of WW2?

are you german or not?

If you don't want to talk about Berlin rapes. Let's talk about rape of nanjing alone.
First, mass rapes are not needed to be arranged, but rapes to be condoned by the superior of soldiers.
I think that was the case with Soviet soldiers, as the sources up there also imply.

Second, it seems like soviet mass rapes were rampant, and there are no records that they are punished
after the northeast china occupation.

Third, soviet soldiers were reported to rape japanese captives, POWs, and other non-japanese civilians,
although there are no official records just by people's memory.

This post has been edited by beronis: Apr 4 2006, 02:44 PM

[danoc]

If you don't want to talk about Berlin rapes. Let's talk about rape of nanjing alone.
First, mass rapes are not needed to be arranged, but rapes to be condoned by the superior of soldiers.
I think that was the case with Soviet soldiers, as the sources up there also imply.

what a $hit is that?

are you german or not? answer me, dude!

This post has been edited by danoc: Apr 4 2006, 02:45 PM

[ANAND]

Not in the case of mass rapes like Rape of Nanjing. Berlin rapes were also mass rapes, and they shouldn't be dealt individually.

Few soldiers of Red Army did that, so does it mean all Red Army were rapers. I say NO. There is no such term as Berlin rape like "Nanjing rape" which not recognized by Japan at all.
Whole World is still thankful for USSR for bearing most heavy burden of WWII

How about Nazi Germans atrocity in Soviet Union -Belorussia, Ukraine, Russia, Poland and so on?

Germans were also victim of war.

"We learn nothing by blaming them," I.F. Stone wrote in 1961 as Adolf Eichmann went to trial. "We all marched with Eichmann ... whether it was the human incinerator or the H-bomb, we built it." The ensuing half-century of human brutality has illustrated this all too well, and those fateful place names that have joined Auschwitz in our atlas of evil -- Phnom Penh, Cambodia; Halabja, Iraq; Srebrenica, Bosnia; Kigali, Rwanda -- are a painful reminder that "never again" was a wish and not a binding vow on mankind. It has taken that half-century to allow the recognition that, in Germany as elsewhere, among perpetrators there are also victims; "A Woman in Berlin" reminds us that the exclusivity of these categories is little more than a fable.

It was a woman diary...

This post has been edited by ANAND: Apr 4 2006, 02:55 PM

[beronis]

what a $hit is that?

are you german or not? answer me, dude!

No.

Example of russian cruelty and brutality can be exhibited by Chechen war.

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/icons/russ-atrocities.html
"I remember a Chechen female sniper. We just tore her apart with two armored personnel carriers, having tied her ankles with steel cables. There was a lot of blood, but the boys needed it."

"The main thing is to have them die slowly. You don't want them to die fast, because a fast death is an easy death."

"The summary executions don't just take place against suspected fighters. One 33-year-old army officer recounted how he drowned a family of five--four women and a middle-aged man--in their own well."

"You should not believe people who say Chechens are not being exterminated. In this Chechen war, it's done by everyone who can do it," he said. "There are situations when it's not possible. But when an opportunity presents itself, few people miss it."

"I would kill all the men I met during mopping-up operations. I didn't feel sorry for them one bit."

"It's much easier to kill them all. It takes less time for them to die than to grow."

"So there will be one Chechen less on the planet, so what? Who will cry for him?"

WAR HAS NO RULES FOR RUSSIAN FORCES BATTLING CHECHEN REBELS

Troops admit committing atrocities against guerrillas and civilians.
It's part of the military culture of impunity, they say.
But many now have troubled consciences.

By MAURA REYNOLDS
Times Staff Writer

Los Angeles Times, Sunday, 17 Sept, MOSCOW:

They call it bespredel--literally, "no limits." It means acting outside the rules, violently and with impunity. It translates as "excesses" or "atrocities."
It's the term Russian soldiers use to describe their actions in Chechnya.
"Without bespredel, we'll get nowhere in Chechnya," a 21-year-old conscript explained. "We have to be cruel to them. Otherwise, we'll achieve nothing."
Since Russia launched a new war against separatist rebels in its republic of Chechnya a year ago, Russian and Western human rights organizations have collected thousands of pages of testimony from victims about human rights abuses committed by Russian servicemen against Chechen civilians and suspected rebel fighters.
To hear the other side of the story, a Times reporter traveled to more than half a dozen regions around Russia and interviewed more than two dozen Russian servicemen returning from the war front.
What they recounted largely matches the picture painted in the human rights reports: The men freely acknowledge that acts considered war crimes under international law not only take place but are also commonplace.
In fact, most admitted committing such acts themselves--everything from looting to summary executions to torture.
"There was bespredel all the time," one 35-year-old soldier said. "You can't let it get to you."
The servicemen say atrocities aren't directly ordered from above; instead, they result from a Russian military culture that glorifies ardor in battle, portrays the enemy as inhuman and has no effective system of accountability.
"Your army is based on professionalism," said a 27-year-old paratrooper who served alongside U.S. troops as a peacekeeper in Bosnia-Herzegovina. "Our army is based on fervor."
Russian officials, including the Kremlin's war spokesman, Sergei V. Yastrzhembsky, have criticized the human rights reports, saying they are riddled with rumor and rebel propaganda.

http://www.iwpr.net/?apc_state=hruicrs2002&l=en&s=f&o=161403
But didn't he cry out that he was a policeman? "Of course," said Sagipov, "They said, 'You're all one band! We will shoot you all! You are sheltering fighters!' Then they tied me up and threw me into the back of a military truck on top of live bodies. They were other policemen who had tried to defend their fellow-villagers from looting and rape. When I tried to lift my head or move it, they immediately kicked me in the head or beat me with a rifle-butt."

Few soldiers of Red Army did that, so does it mean all Red Army were rapers. I say NO. There is no such term as Berlin rape like "Nanjing rape" which not recognized by Japan at all.
Whole World is still thankful for USSR for bearing most heavy burden of WWII

Both atrocities are actually officially recognized but Russian and Japanaese hyper-nationalists tried to bend them as if nothing happened there.

[ANAND]

How desperate attemp. Now i know, what is your problem. You hate Russia, don't you?
I wish to put you among Chechen rebels. ??? You must be REAL @$$hole if you are siding with with child-killer-chechen-cowards (remember Beslan school hostage) in order to express hatred against Russians.

This post has been edited by ANAND: Apr 4 2006, 03:14 PM

[beronis]

How desperate attemp. Now i know, what is your problem. You hate Russia, don't you?
I wish to put you among Chechen rebels. ???

I hate injustices continuing. I hate mass rapes, and I hate mistreatment of women. I hate violences.

[ANAND]

Both atrocities are actually officially recognized but Russian and Japanaese hyper-nationalists tried to bend them as if nothing happened there.

Show me fact of official recognition of both governments. Governtments are not hyper-nationalists

I hate injustices continuing. I hate mass rapes, and I hate mistreatment of women. I hate violences.

We all hate those crimes

[danoc]

No.

Example of russian cruelty and brutality can be exhibited by Chechen war.

really?

i think you are german nazi.
you talk to good german gramatic and german art of speech.

you want to talk about how cruel it in a tchechenian wars in rusian federation was?

i do question me, why do you speack about other wars and other worldparts in a chinese chat.
and only about how "cruel" a russian soldiers are?
do you want to prove us, that it is normal in russian "race" to have bad people?

i can tell you about how many christian people (and only russian, but ossetians, georgian and other majorities in tchechenia. you must know, 70% of people in tchechenia were not tchechen)) were killed, raped and stolen by tchechen and forign "dshihad wariors" (simple merchant soldiers bought with saudiearabian, islamistic and drug money) from arbian and iranian countries?

most of them have killed a tchechen and their neighbours, you idiot.
why do you think do flee most tchechenian civil people into russian territories and not into other countries.

i have lost many friends in this wars. (tchechenian, georgians, kasahks, russians)

and they have tell me that most of this "tchechenian" cannot speak russian, or kaukasian languages.
but good arabian and pakistanian dialects.

I hate injustices continuing. I hate mass rapes, and I hate mistreatment of women. I hate violences.

really?

therefore you are rasist and wants new wars in asia?

-
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This post has been edited by danoc: Apr 4 2006, 03:13 PM

[shashoujian]

Do they teach you any proper English in Soviet Mongolia? fu-king learn the language before acting like some bigshot English nazi.

As for "Chinese atrocities," go cry me a fu-king river. Should the PRC reunite with the ROC, Outer Mongolia and Outer Dongbei will come back eventually, deal with it.

[beronis]

Show me fact of official recognition of both governments. Governtments are not hyper-nationalists
We all hate those crimes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre
Current situation in Japan

In Japan, as far as Japanese academics are concerned, the controversy over the existence of atrocities ended in the early 1990s. Both sides accept that killings did occur; however, disagreement exists over the actual numbers, which depends on the standard of inclusion of archival or anecdotal evidence, definition of the period of the massacre, as well as geographical coverage.

Currently, no notable group, including right-wing nationalists, deny the occurrence of the killings and the debate has shifted mainly to the death toll, to the extent of rapes and civilian killings (as opposed to POW and suspected guerrillas) and to the appropriateness of using the word "massacre". Apologists insist that burial records from the Red Swastika Society and the Chung Shan Tang (Tsung Shan Tong) were never cross-examined at the Tokyo and Nanjing trials, arguing therefore that the estimates derived from these two sets of records should be heavily discounted. They also admit that personal records of Japanese soldiers do suggest the occurrence of rapes, but insist that this does not determine the extent of rapes. Moreover, they regard personal testimonies from the Chinese side to be propaganda. They also point out that there are no documented records of the rapes, unlike the burial records that exist and document the killings, and therefore argue that the assertion of mass rape is unsubstantiated. They further insist that the majority of those killed were POWs and "suspected guerrillas", which they consider to be legitimate killing, so that the use of descriptive word "massacre" is inappropriate.

However, within the public the debate still continues. Those downplaying the massacre have most recently rallied around a group of academic and journalists associated with the Society for the Creation of New Textbooks. Their views are often shared in publications associated with right-wing publishers such as Bungei Shunjū and Sankei Shuppan. In response, two Japanese organizations have taken the lead in publishing material detailing the massacre and collecting related documents and accounts. The Study Group on the Nanjing Incident, founded by a group of historians in 1984, has published the most books responding directly to revisionist historians; the Center for Research and Documentation on Japan's War Responsibility, founded in 1993, has published many materials in its own journal. Like the academics, the general Japanese public are also divided in their opinions of the Massacre. While young Japanese were now taught that atrocities did occur, many continue to believe that the Massacre is hugely exaggerated in both scale and number by Chinese politicians using it as an offensive charge to scupper Japan's reputation in the world community. As such some continue to question the veracity of the Massacre's evidence, as seen in proliferation of private websites set up for nationalistic purposes. Other Japanese severely criticize this attitude and urge widespread admission of Japanese war crimes by active compensation of war victims.

The Society for the Creation of New Textbooks produced history textbooks for junior high school and submitted them to the Ministry of Education. The Ministry ordered corrections in 137 places. After the corrections, the book passed the 2001 inspection. This has again caused fury from China and Korea, both sides demanding reinspection. The book was published and wrongly appeared to be a best-seller, because of the systematic distribution of most of the 750,000 copies by the Society for the Creation of New Textbooks. However the 2002 rate of adoption of this textbook in schools was only 0.039%.

Russian recognition of Berlin is in the quote in my first post, please read through all.

This post has been edited by beronis: Apr 4 2006, 03:17 PM

[ANAND]

Do they teach you any proper English in Soviet Mongolia? fu-king learn the language before acting like some bigshot English nazi.

As for "Chinese atrocities," go cry me a fu-king river. Should the PRC reunite with the ROC, Outer Mongolia and Outer Dongbei will come back eventually, deal with it.

KID, do your homework

[shashoujian]

KID, do your homework

Thanks, but no thanks. Don't you have an ESL teacher to meet today? Or are you using an online translator? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) 2

This post has been edited by shashoujian: Apr 4 2006, 03:17 PM