Russian Atrocities in Northeastern china and part of korea?, So what happend in Germany and Eastern Europe. Options

[beronis]

I knew the history of the east european side of the war and of Japans crimes. I wasn't really sure about china though. I do know this as far as history is concerned Russia has never been known for its compassion or its ability to abide by treaties .

One thing I feel not sure about Soviet soldier is that I didn't hear the testimony and record of chinese women raped or gang raped as much as in East Europe. I just wondered why.

[Anda]

One thing I feel not sure about Soviet soldier is that I didn't hear the testimony and record of chinese women raped or gang raped as much as in East Europe. I just wondered why.

Why? Because there is NO SUCH THING as "Russian atrocity in China" If you really want to come up with something why don't you check more propaganda posters from opposite sides.

Any war is bad. During the war people kills each other. As much you kill enemy, you 'll be awarded. So i guess raping is not that bad at all compare to killing. Raped person will stay alive better off being dead. Each war has atrocity due to participating individuals corrupt nature.

[shashoujian]

Why? Because there is NO SUCH THING as "Russian atrocity in China" If you really want to come up with something why don't you check more propaganda posters from opposite sides.

Any war is bad. During the war people kills each other. As much you kill enemy, you 'll be awarded. So i guess raping is not that bad at all compare to killing. Raped person will stay alive better off being dead. Each war has atrocity due to participating individuals corrupt nature.

Hey, why don't you just stfu instead of talking straight out of your @$$? Seriously, it's nice to hear about how Mongolians love to suck up to Russians since they helped you "gain" independence. Do that in your own forum, not ours. Yes, I've heard about this disgusting $hit from my grandparents regarding what they did in the Northeast region and the Korean peninsula. I don't know whether or not they conducted systematic mass rapes or not like the Japanese though.

[Anda]

Hey, why don't you just stfu instead of talking straight out of your @$$? Seriously, it's nice to hear about how Mongolians love to suck up to Russians since they helped you "gain" independence. Do that in your own forum, not ours. Yes, I've heard about this disgusting $hit from my grandparents regarding what they did in the Northeast region and the Korean peninsula. I don't know whether or not they conducted systematic mass rapes or not like the Japanese though.

It has nothing to do with nationalities. I said WAR is WAR.
Main thing is that instead rumor or propaganda posters, you should coma up with the facts.

Plus there is no need to use words like STFU or @$$ or $hit. Where is your good old confusian manner?. I am not really fond of Russia, but i acknowledge their role. Some Soviet troops stationed in Mongolia, commited crime like rape or stealing. If they caught immediatelly suspects usually executed / get shot on the spot. Soviet Army consisted of all ethnic groups of USSR.

This post has been edited by Anda: Apr 1 2006, 04:30 PM

[shashoujian]

It has nothing to do with nationalities. I said WAR is WAR.
Main thing is that instead rumor or propaganda posters, you should coma up with the facts.

Plus there is no need to use words like STFU or @$$ or $hit. Where is your good old confusian manner?. I am not really fond of Russia, but i acknowledge their role.

War? China did not even engage war with the Soviets. On the contrary, they were allies (both ROC/PRC). I will acknowledge that the leaflet is propaganda (I didn't say it wasn't), but the Russians DID commit rapes in Northeast China and on the Korean peninsula. I don't need bloody facts considering my grandparents experienced the changes that happened in the region.

If you didn't outright reject a subject that might've been considered provocative, then I wouldn't have made such comments with that tone - though no harm was intended.

[Anda]

War? China did not even engage war with the Soviets. On the contrary, they were allies (both ROC/PRC). I will acknowledge that the leaflet is propaganda (I didn't say it wasn't), but the Russians DID commit rapes in Northeast China and on the Korean peninsula. I don't need bloody facts considering my grandparents experienced the changes that happened in the region.

If you didn't outright reject a subject that might've been considered provocative, then I wouldn't have made such comments with that tone - though no harm was intended.

You are using word RUSSIANS ( or it can be any nation) as if all russian soldiers were rapers. I believe that generalization will not help the matter CLEAR.
Ok, German Army (not people of Germany) and Japan Army (not all japanese people) commited atrocities during the WWII. Their brutalities in Russia and China were approved by their Autority/ Command. In that case you are OK to say that Japanese or Germans did bad things like this and that.
If you grandparents experienced rape or anything bad by some Russian soldiers, though i would symphatize with them, but it does not mean Russians did it as Japanese or Germans. I believe that those cases were individual CRIME just like some atrocities in Vietnam by US soldiers.
Spreading rumor will not help to prove guilt of crime. FACT does that

There are legal facts that Allied Army Jews soldiers executed German officers, SS and soldiers on the spot without trial. But it is not counted as atrocities. I can come up with lots of individual crimes of PLA soldiers or PSB cadre recent years from International Human Right sources . But i don't call it as Chinese did this or that. People are good

This post has been edited by Anda: Apr 1 2006, 05:08 PM

[shashoujian]

You are using word RUSSIANS ( or it can be any nation) as if all russian soldiers were rapers. I believe that generalization will not help the matter CLEAR.
Ok, German Army (not people of Germany) and Japan Army (not all japanese people) commited atrocities during the WWII. Their brutalities in Russia and China were approved by their Autority/ Command. In that case you are OK to say that Japanese or Germans did bad things like this and that.
If you grandparents experienced rape or anything bad by some Russian soldiers, though i would symphatize with them, but it does not mean Russians did it as Japanese or Germans. I believe that those cases were individual CRIME just like some atrocities in Vietnam by US soldiers.
Spreading rumor will not help to prove guilt of crime. FACT does that

There are legal facts that Allied Army Jews soldiers executed German officers, SS and soldiers on the spot without trial. But it is not counted as atrocities. I can come up with lots of individual crimes of PLA soldiers or PSB cadre recent years from International Human Right sources . But i don't call it as Chinese did this or that. People are good

First of all, where did I say "my grandparents experienced rape"? I didn't. I simply indicated that they experienced the changes that happened during that time. And you know exactly what I meant by "Russians." Of course I wasn't referring to your average Russian guy in Moscow, I was talking about the dumbfu-ks that committed these crimes.

Way to avoid the issue, the Japanese, Germans, the Vietnam War and the PLA have nothing to do with this thread. Don't bring up irrelevant topics when you have nothing else to back yourself up with.

[beronis]

Why? Because there is NO SUCH THING as "Russian atrocity in China" If you really want to come up with something why don't you check more propaganda posters from opposite sides.

I obviously checked many web sites, but can't find much. That's why I came here.
There may not be any mass rapes by Soviet Soldiers in china, true. But I don't
see any evidence that they did not happen at all.

[beronis]

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:qr9yeV...p&ct=clnk&cd=17
The Japanese refugees are housed in a school building a few blocks from us. They are free to move around but very few dare to venture out. The Korean People's Militia guard the Japanese per agreement with Gen. Abe, but the Militia has no jurisdiction over the Soviets. During the night, some Russians openly walk past the Korean guards and rape the women - young and old. All Japanese men shave their head (their custom during WW2) and so the Russians feel around for people with hair. Soon the Japanese women and children shave their head. It is also good for controlling head lice.

The Japanese are not the only ones dying of hunger and disease. The Soviet troops live off the land and we have not much left to eat. There is shortage of everything: the Russians occupy basically all Japanese houses and buildings plus many Korean houses as well; hardly any medical services or medicine; clothing, fire woods, drinking water, etc. Indeed, the disease and famine are killing more Koreans than all of the Koreans killed during the Japanese occupation.

The Russians go after Korean women as well. The People's Militia are helpless. The best the Militia can do is to contact a Russian military police that may or may not intervene. One of my neighbors is raped by a Russian. The rumor has it that the Russian rapist got 'stuck' to the poor woman and the Militia had to carry them both in an ox-cart to a hospital for separation. I guess a Russian penis works just like a dog's .

[beronis]

The Free Love of the Russian Revolution
2003/10/28

A horrible crime took place in Leningrad - on the beach not far from the Petropavlovskaya Fortress in 1927. Thirteen young men brutally gangbanged three girls. Sexual crimes in Russia after the revolution were rather frequent among the working youth. Probably, the above-mentioned case would not have been investigated, if one of the victims had not died. Furthermore, another victim was a daughter of an influential party official.

The investigation was not objective, but it revealed horrible facts. One of the criminals, Fyodor Solovtsov, was an activist of the Komsomol movement. He was known for his sexual deeds too. He had eight intimate partners in his Komsomol unit, forcing them to have love affairs with him. One of the girls refused to be a part of the "revolutionary spirit and morality." Fyodor simply told her that she would lose her room in the dormitory (the girl arrived from a village). He threatened and intimidated other disobedient girls too. To justify his conduct, the sly young man referred to the decree about the collectivization of women which had been issued in 1918. The document pronounced all women between 18 and 32 years old the state property - they were obliged to become members of the "free love bureau." Men between 19 and 50 years old could become members of the bureau too. They could choose any female member, even without her consent. Many historians say that the document was a fake. However, Fyodor Solovtsov used the above-mentioned decree and said that he had organized a department of the free love bureau in his unit. Meetings of the revolutionary youth often ended up in wild orgies. According to the ideology of that time, it was believed that the bourgeois marriage was demeaning to women, it deprived them of equal rights with men. Revolutionaries thought that prostitution was the public exploitation of women - communists were strongly against any kind of human exploitation. That is why, it was believed that free sexual relations between young men and women would put an end to unhealthy marriages and prostitution. Woman named Alexandra Kollontay was a very active proponent of that idea. She was defending free love principles in newspapers and magazines, saying that such love was commitment-free. The 50-year-old woman was saying such things to justify her love affair with Pavel Dybenko, who was 17 years younger than her. A research conducted in 1923 showed, 47 percent of young men and 63 percent of young girls had started leading sex lives before they turned 18. More than 80 percent of men and about 50 percent of women were leading irresponsible sex lives, having three or more partners at once. Such a situation could also be explained with economic conditions. Young people would often move to cities from villages - they had no places to live and no places to work. They could not have normal families because of those obstacles. The distribution of the "revolutionary morality" has brought very sad results. Sexually transmitted diseases became a disaster among the working youth. It turned out in 1927 that a lot of workers were sick with syphilis and other venereal diseases. Young people were catching those diseases from each other, not from prostitutes. A lot of children were born illegitimately, their mothers were unable to feed and grow them. The babies of the revolutionary Eros were becoming orphans, orphans were growing into criminals. The rapists did not plead guilty at court. They claimed that they were acting according to the principles of the revolutionary morality. The trial became rather demonstrative. The criminals were severely punished. Fyodor Solovtsov was executed. His accomplices were sentenced to many years in jail. There were different points of view about the story in the society. Some people wrote furious letters to newspapers, saying that all rapists must be executed. Others, especially the people of the working youth, were trying to justify them: "How can we satisfy our natural needs then? The girls should have agreed upon the request of their comrades. They should have relieved them of the sexual tension, inspired them for new victories of Komsomol and communism! Eros of the Revolution must help young people build the bright future of communism!" an anonymous man wrote in his letter

[WarEngineer]

the russians did steal alot from north eastern china when they "helped" us from kicking the japanese out

[hanzhongrenshi]

All foreign countries in Chinese land were plunders and thieves during that time.

This post has been edited by hanzhongrenshi: Apr 1 2006, 09:42 PM

[cathay]

Why? Because there is NO SUCH THING as "Russian atrocity in China" If you really want to come up with something why don't you check more propaganda posters from opposite sides.

Any war is bad. During the war people kills each other. As much you kill enemy, you 'll be awarded. So i guess raping is not that bad at all compare to killing. Raped person will stay alive better off being dead. Each war has atrocity due to participating individuals corrupt nature.

To some people, being raped is worst than death. Specially there were detail accounts that Russians gangraped German teenagers in front thier parents, then turned around rape the wife in front of her husband and daughters. I dont think the husband himself would feel much better than the victims, since he was so helpless and had no mean to protect his wife and daughters.

[cathay]

You are using word RUSSIANS ( or it can be any nation) as if all russian soldiers were rapers. I believe that generalization will not help the matter CLEAR.
Ok, German Army (not people of Germany) and Japan Army (not all japanese people) commited atrocities during the WWII. Their brutalities in Russia and China were approved by their Autority/ Command. In that case you are OK to say that Japanese or Germans did bad things like this and that.

Germany,Japan, and Russian soldiers were all conscripts. So yes it's ture that pretty much all their young male commited astrocities. Maybe b/c their culture were by nature less civilized. So thier conducts in the war were worst than others.

[Suijen]

No, it's because they didn't have any reason to follow a code of honor and they were given opportunities to do so.

The PLA was situatied in China. Their power base were the peasants. They're not raping anything.

This post has been edited by Suijen: Apr 1 2006, 10:22 PM

[WarEngineer]

^on the other hand, the american sailors are raping......eachother

go the power of buttsecks!

[Suijen]

It's not rape if it's consensual.

[MING-LOYALIST]

Russians did commit mass rape in northeast China during the end of WW2. It was nicely swept under the carpet because they were Allies..
But many Northeasterners know well.

[Manun]

I thought soviet was with us (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/cry2.gif)

[beronis]

I thought soviet was with us (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/cry2.gif)

I certainly don't lump People's Liberation Army and Soviet Red Army together.
PLA is more sane controlled army whereas Red Army officers themselves
are rapists at least in Eastern Europe.