Philippine Claim To Sabah, North Borneo, Sultanate of Sulu is rightful owner Options

[martin_nuke]

I think during the marcos era, there was an attempt to claim sabah by military means but failed. Marcos and the Sultan trained muslim soldiers at corregidor for that particular secret operation but when the muslim soldiers found out that they will be attacking their fellow muslims in sabah, they didn't like the idea so Marcos had to exterminate them.

This post has been edited by martin_nuke: Jan 13 2006, 09:21 PM

[Sirikittong]

Exterminate them???

[martin_nuke]

Exterminate them???

Marcos excecuted all of the trained soldiers because there was like a Mutiny against Marcos. I was a secret mercenary operation by Marcos and the Sultan.

This post has been edited by martin_nuke: Jan 13 2006, 09:27 PM

[anime7]

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif) yes, i think that was the Corregidor or Jabidah massacre... i run through a page that the Philippines was preparing an army of Muslim Malays in Corregidor to reclaim Sabah... but they were massacred... all but one escaped... he swam in the sea to escape!!!
But the real question is... should Philippines abandon its claim on Sabah for Malaysia??? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_wink.gif)

[Datu Mandub]

I'm not saying sabahans should be filipinos but don't they know about how the malaysian government gives great advantages to the malays and not the native sabahans even though that is their homeland

Sabah I think is the only member of the federation now that don't have a Sultan, I am not sure if Sabah today don't get an equal treatment from the Central Government, but during the time of Datu Harun Tun Mustafa (the first minister of Sabah and a Filipino from Jama Mapun) it is doing well....well infact it is rumored that Sabah is the one supplying arms to the Moro seccessionist because of the Jabidah Massacre.

[Datu Mandub]

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif) yes, i think that was the Corregidor or Jabidah massacre... i run through a page that the Philippines was preparing an army of Muslim Malays in Corregidor to reclaim Sabah... but they were massacred... all but one escaped... he swam in the sea to escape!!!
But the real question is... should Philippines abandon its claim on Sabah for Malaysia???  (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_wink.gif)

No politicians will give in to something without getting back in return, perhaps the two countries are still not in this stage of negotiation. But the final words must still comes from the heirs

[martin_nuke]

I think the philippine sabah claim is still going on but it will claim it on new grounds that it will be presented to international court.

1. Malaysia does not pay the rent of Sabah to the Sultanate of Sulu.
2. Malaysia mistreated filipinos in Sabah either by genocide, rape, labor, etc...
3. Sabah is a haven and training base for terrorist groups like the Al Queda.

This post has been edited by martin_nuke: Jan 15 2006, 08:37 AM

[martin_nuke]

Murphy Oil recently discovered the giant Kikeh field, estimated to contain between 400 million and 700 million barrels of oil, in the deepwater area of Sabah, within the Malaysian border.

http://www.philexport.ph/eworm/Thursday/tradeheadlines.html

I think this is like the spratleys dispute and i think malaysia knew it a long time ago.

This post has been edited by martin_nuke: Jan 15 2006, 08:52 PM

[pancaindera]

Ideally but maybe unrealistically sabah should be independant of malaysia or
philippines. sabahans have quite a different mentality compared to those of
west malaysians generally. we are multi-cultured but we dont just 'tolerate' each
other like in the west, we go further by mingling and integrating much more with
people of any religion or race. im a sabahan btw.
only recently i think the malay nationalistic mentality coupled with chinese superiority mentality have seeped into sabah causing less integration. which sucks a lot.
realistically however i think sabah does fit 'fine' into multi-cultural malaysia.
but definitely wont fit well with islamic malaysia. all is not so perfect for sabahans
these days.
mr bahaw, u said if sabah were part of philiplines its resources would only be scraped
and used to develop manila. i think this is happenning even today by the malaysian
government. i think the petronas towers and klia might have been built by sabah's oil and maybe timber! they have also succeeded in islamicizing sabah. the economic policy indeed favours malays to 'other indeginous groups'.
we sabahans must work something out to better our situations:
vote for an opposition party?
despite all this, i must agree with anime7: philippines should drop it. i dont think
our situation will improve if we were governed by you. we'd probably more islamicised than now.
your economy is also not so healthy. unstable political n social situation. even if
philippines become an ideal country for sabah there would surely be lotsa unnecessary bloodshed, etc if a transfer were to take place.
philippines' grounds of claims is also very weak. malaysia has a "continuous and peaceful display of state authority"(effective occupation) for over 40 years. i dont
think there is any better grounds of claim that can beat ground.
(palmas case 1928, sipadan 2002)
btw, neva knew we almost got attacked by marcos! wonder what the outcome
would be....... (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[tengkuafif]

I'm not saying sabahans should be filipinos but don't they know about how the malaysian government gives great advantages to the malays and not the native sabahans even though that is their homeland

Mr Bahaw,
The term Bumiputera is used to describe the Malays and the native people of Sabah and Sarawak.
The native of Sabah and Sarawak share the same benefit as the Malays.

[tengkuafif]

Exterminate them???

And Thailand should free the Pattani Malay Kingdom!

[Sirikittong]

What are you talking about. I was asking about the massacre not implying a course of that nature. Dont initiate me in an argument, Tengku, as I did not start hostility between you. Engage me, and I will reciprocate, accordingly.

The subject is about Sabah, not southern Thailand. So dont digress. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif)

This post has been edited by Sirikittong: Jan 15 2006, 06:21 PM

[MrBahaw]

Mr Bahaw,
The term Bumiputera is used to describe the Malays and the native people of Sabah and Sarawak.
The native of Sabah and Sarawak share the same benefit as the Malays.

ok thanks for the clear up

[RL33]

Mr Bahaw,
The term Bumiputera is used to describe the Malays and the native people of Sabah and Sarawak.
The native of Sabah and Sarawak share the same benefit as the Malays.

And from what i know the ethnic chams in vietnam too right???

[pancaindera]

The native of Sabah and Sarawak share the same benefit as the Malays.

not entirely true. this only appears so on the surface.
in reality there is furthur discrimination within bumiputra.
and malay people are often preferred over non-muslim bumiputras
when it comes to educational or other government grants.
this economic policy was introduced in response to the 1969 incident
hence it is designed by the malay leaders to remedy an essentially malay problem
of course sabahan and sarawakian natives do receive benefits from it
but not equal benefits as received by malays.
so, mr bahaw, u were not entirely wrong in the first place.

This post has been edited by pancaindera: Jan 16 2006, 07:43 AM

[martin_nuke]

pancaindera,

You know the Sultanate of Sulu is more interested in claiming Sabah than the Philippines so if Sabah is claimed by the Philippines, it will be an Autonomous Region like Sulu meaning that it will be completely controlled by Sulu not the Philippines but it is still part of the Philippines. I know that the Philippines is only interested in the oil of Sabah which will make Sulu & Sabah will prosper by supplying oil to the Philippines. Sabah will have more peace and freedom with the Philippines than with Malaysia.

I think the Sultanate of Sulu has another plan to reclaim Sabah using the Socio-Demographic Engineering where he populates Sabah with Muslim Filipinos until the Filipino population becomes the majority.

This post has been edited by martin_nuke: Jan 16 2006, 09:15 PM

[Ek-ek]

Ideally but maybe unrealistically sabah should be independant of malaysia or
philippines. sabahans have quite a different mentality compared to those of
west malaysians generally. we are multi-cultured but we dont just 'tolerate' each
other like in the west, we go further by mingling and integrating much more with
people of any religion or race. im a sabahan btw.
only recently i think the malay nationalistic mentality coupled with chinese superiority mentality have seeped into sabah causing less integration. which sucks a lot.
realistically however i think sabah does fit 'fine' into multi-cultural malaysia.
but definitely wont fit well with islamic malaysia. all is not so perfect for sabahans
these days.
mr bahaw, u said if sabah were part of philiplines its resources would only be scraped
and used to develop manila. i think this is happenning even today by the malaysian
government. i think the petronas towers and klia might have been built by sabah's oil and maybe timber! they have also succeeded in islamicizing sabah. the economic policy indeed favours malays to 'other indeginous groups'.
we sabahans must work something out to better our situations:
vote for an opposition party?
despite all this, i must agree with anime7: philippines should drop it. i dont think
our situation will improve if we were governed by you. we'd probably more islamicised than now.
your economy is also not so healthy. unstable political n social situation. even if
philippines become an ideal country for sabah there would surely be lotsa unnecessary bloodshed, etc if a transfer were to take place.
philippines' grounds of claims is also very weak. malaysia has a "continuous and peaceful display of state authority"(effective occupation) for over 40 years. i dont
think there is any better grounds of claim that can beat  ground.
(palmas case 1928, sipadan 2002)
btw, neva knew we almost got attacked by marcos! wonder what the outcome
would be....... (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_confused.gif) HUMM, as far as we all know , Indonesia , Philippines had opposed the plan of creation of Malaysia even before it was given an independence from the British empire, Sarawak and Ligitan are being claimed by Indonesia and Sabah being claimed by the Sultan of Sulu , while Kedah and Perlis were once part of the Kingdom of Siam.

[Datu Mandub]

I think the philippine sabah claim is still going on but it will claim it on new grounds that it will be presented to international court.

1. Malaysia does not pay the rent of Sabah to the Sultanate of Sulu.
2. Malaysia mistreated filipinos in Sabah either by genocide, rape, labor, etc...
3. Sabah is a haven and training base for terrorist groups like the Al Queda.

Malaysia is still paying "Cession Money" to the heirs of the Sultan. The notice was sent last October to the heirs by the Malaysian Embassy. The latest payment was for the year 2004.

[Datu Mandub]

Provision in the 1962 Philippine North Borneo claim state that if the Philippine government fails to recover after all exhaustive peaceful means the Claim would become null and void and the Sultan of Sulu will be free to pursue the claim in whatever manner he wish to. The probelm is, the last officially recognized Sultan of Sulu died in 1986.....today you will find a few relatives of the last Sultan pretending and claiming to be the "Sultan"

The fate of North Borneo today shall only be determined through propreity and hereditary rights by the heirs, not even the Philippine government can act alone on this, whether to pursue the claim or drop it.

[malaccan]

Friends from Kota Kinabalu have said how some Filipinos come to Sabah, take up Muslim names and get Malaysian citizenship thorugh various means. If this is true, then it's hardly surprising (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_neutral.gif) Sabah offers a better life than southern Philippines. I sincerely hope this Sabah issue can be put to rest soon.