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Do you believe in the heirarchy of language?
RL33
post Dec 16 2006, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE(Kanlungan @ Dec 16 2006, 07:24 AM) [snapback]2574889[/snapback]

Maybe we are "unusual" because we have 2,000-4,000 rice paddies all over our domain and both our Kankanaey and Ibaloi kins have practiced mummification and our mummies date from 500-1,500 years ago. Not only that, the mummies' internal organs are still intact.

Do you lowlanders have that?

Now this makes me think. Could it be the reason why the Philippines is screwed right now is because of the curse of the spirits? I mean, stealing of our mummies began in the late 60's. Martial Law was declared in the early 70's. Until now, we still have a lot of unreturned mummies(in Kabayan, Benguet, the Ibaloi heartland, is still missing 40 mummies)... Give back our mummies and the Philippines will be saved.


This calls hor a headhunt...do u agree??? lol his head hehe
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Kanlungan
post Dec 17 2006, 04:57 AM
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Ibalois didn't practice headhunting.

I'll call someone from Kalinga if you want to see some harcore stuff.

LOL
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stigmatopeople
post Dec 17 2006, 02:09 PM
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icon_redface.gif what about the warays?
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MrBahaw
post Dec 17 2006, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE(bisaya @ Aug 25 2006, 05:01 AM) [snapback]2218384[/snapback]

i have something worst than that. some tagalog would feel insulted by speaking bisaya in their presence and when ask to study bisayan, they will tell you that they dont want to because they would sound like a maid or katulong besides they say they are tagalog and there is no need to study bisayan because according to them mas class ang tagalog.

the policy on having a national language based on tagalog had divided us instead of unite us. it has created a caste system and a hierarchy where tagalog is at the very top. it has already made at least 3 languages extinct and more than 50 languages endangered because research is focused on enriching tagalog through research into tagalog bararila, sanasay, kasaysayan at tula. neglecting the importance of the other languages because they are not national languages. and they dont want to waste money on other languages that is for them insignificant. after more than 50years since the creation of a national language based on tagalog. we have now feel the effect of such action by the philippine government. we must act now before it is too late.

many believe that federalism would be the solution to help rescue and preserve these other languages. and with federalism, each state would have the power to retain big percentage of their income to fund projects that are relevant to the local community like funding research on the local languages, stories, poetry, culture and history. and set up funds for teachers who would teach the local languages to their communities.

we must have UNITY IN DIVERSITY and not UNITY IN UNIFORMITY. or else we will be one boring nation where everyone are converted into tagalog with one culture, one language and nothing else. all these rich diverse culture and languages will be exterminated and the world would be poorer by at least a hundred languages. im sure many will not like it especially people like me who have appreciation for the beauty of languages and the culture attach to it.
http://news.inq7.net/regions/index.php?ind...;story_id=12927

http://www.gutom.org/ftopict-435.html

http://ilonggonation.blogspot.com/2006/06/...ulture-how.html

http://maxpages.com/defender/solfed

wow bisaya I am really learning a lot from your posts

do you have a blog or something that I can read because I like they way you always have info to back your arguments

oh and can you guys cut down on the tagalog postings on important threads like this because not everyone can understand tagalog
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jargalant
post Dec 18 2006, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE(azrach187 @ Aug 17 2006, 02:28 PM) [snapback]2185237[/snapback]

It may also pay to let you know that I basically grew up in the province, knowing three other dialects (Ilocano, Itawes, and Malaueg).

I see you are pointing at the educational system. To tell you the truth, language isn't the only problem in the Philippine educational system. That subject will not fare well if you consider the other subjects that needs attention, just like you said, including history.

It will be unfair to you and the rest of the nation, if you claim that no special emphasis is given to the rest of the country, if you are to speak of history... The Leyte landing did not happen in Manila. Lapu-lapu is from Mactan, not Malolos. Aklan is famous for Ati-atihan not as the summer capital of the Philippines. Boracay is the prime tourist destination of the Philippines, not Bagumbayan (Luneta). The Moros are the fierces warrior the foreigners ever saw, not the Hukbalahaps.

My point is that you are downplaying the worth of your region because of something superficial such as television shows and stereotypical portrayal that holds no water to the educated. Basically, those that view the Katagalugan area as the center of patriotism, nationalism, and class, are idiots themselves.

By land mass, Luzon is a very integral part of any military strategist, archaic history or otherwise. Manila, protected by an enclave called the Manila Bay was chosen with military purpose in mind, not of the language spoken by tribes labeled "Taga Ilog" or Tagalogs.

If you deem that Tagalogs are superior, then you might be feeding the frenzy called ignorance. The basic and most important point of language, as I stated earlier, is communication. By having a singular language, from Babuyan Islands to Sulu, our nation could be unified as one, without the use of translators. The same is true to programming language used by computer programmers, English or non-English, understand the language used in their trade.

But I see the direction of this conversation isn't language.

With enough people, including politicians themselves, cries regional autonomies. The nation already battered with different governmental problems, now have to fend-off those against a unified country. In which, you might just be a model for one. You say that some non-Tagalog speakers are categorized as non-nationalistic, well, a short trip to a mirror might just answer your own stereotype.



Bilib ako sayo!!! biggthumpup.gif
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bisaya
post Dec 18 2006, 03:36 AM
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QUOTE(MrBahaw @ Dec 18 2006, 12:36 PM) [snapback]2579100[/snapback]

wow bisaya I am really learning a lot from your posts

do you have a blog or something that I can read because I like they way you always have info to back your arguments

oh and can you guys cut down on the tagalog postings on important threads like this because not everyone can understand tagalog


unfortunately i dont have a blog. my posts are fruits of my research in the field gathered from my travels and from studying the research of other people. i often exchange notes with them. comparing our studies and evidences. since i am also an entrepreneur, my time in cyberspace is also limited. sometimes i even have trouble logging in on asiafinest especially in some remote places, probably because it has some popups so other isp would not allow me to login to asiafinest, so i have to use proxies and it is very difficult.
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Kanlungan
post Dec 20 2006, 03:34 AM
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Ambot sa imo... Hehehe...that's the only words I know in addition to "langgam". The Bisaya langgam, not the Tagalog langgam. Hehe
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Reilynx
post Dec 20 2006, 03:36 AM
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Iyot and Pesteng Yawaa lang ang alam kong Bisaya. icon_redface.gif
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Kanlungan
post Dec 20 2006, 03:40 AM
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What does Iyot mean in Bisaya? Hmm. curious if it means the same in Ilocano. Hehe
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Reilynx
post Dec 20 2006, 03:42 AM
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QUOTE(Kanlungan @ Dec 20 2006, 12:40 AM) [snapback]2585829[/snapback]

What does Iyot mean in Bisaya? Hmm. curious if it means the same in Ilocano. Hehe

Nauutugan. One of the few Ilocano words I know. embarassedlaugh.gif
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jargalant
post Dec 20 2006, 04:13 AM
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QUOTE(Reilynx @ Dec 20 2006, 04:42 PM) [snapback]2585835[/snapback]

Nauutugan. One of the few Ilocano words I know. embarassedlaugh.gif



Is nauutugan = nalilibugan. I think it's bisaya. laugh.gif
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oanari
post Dec 20 2006, 07:13 AM
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QUOTE(Reilynx @ Dec 20 2006, 03:42 AM) [snapback]2585835[/snapback]

Nauutugan. One of the few Ilocano words I know. embarassedlaugh.gif


Are you referring to the word "horny"?

Uttog means horny

Makauttog------ getting horny
Makauttogak-------I'm horny
Makauttog isuna---He/she is horny

Anyways, English should be the primary language of the Philippines. Then Tagalog, Ilocano, Cebuano and others would then be used as the Regional Official language of their respective regions. If a Cebuano and Ilocano are talking to each other, they would be speaking English instead of Tagalog. Or a Tagalog speaking to Ilonggo, they would be speaking English, not the Tagalog native language. Or better yet, make the Spanish language as one of the two primary languages of the Philippines. So, if a Cebuano and Ilocano are talking to each other, they can choose which language they would be using, English, Spanish or Spanglish.. biggrin.gif
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bisaya
post Dec 20 2006, 07:39 AM
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QUOTE(Kanlungan @ Dec 20 2006, 04:34 PM) [snapback]2585814[/snapback]

Ambot sa imo... Hehehe...that's the only words I know in addition to "langgam". The Bisaya langgam, not the Tagalog langgam. Hehe


"ambot sa imo" is ilonggo.

QUOTE(Kanlungan @ Dec 20 2006, 04:40 PM) [snapback]2585829[/snapback]

What does Iyot mean in Bisaya? Hmm. curious if it means the same in Ilocano. Hehe


yes, it is the same.

QUOTE(Reilynx @ Dec 20 2006, 04:42 PM) [snapback]2585835[/snapback]

Nauutugan. One of the few Ilocano words I know. embarassedlaugh.gif


nauutugan i believe is the same. it is when that thing in between your legs becomes active and starts to grow. icon_smile.gif

QUOTE(jargalant @ Dec 20 2006, 05:13 PM) [snapback]2585873[/snapback]

Is nauutugan = nalilibugan. I think it's bisaya. laugh.gif


there are many ilokano words that has the same meaning with bisaya like ladawan, balay, abaga, manong, manang. ilokano "apo" is "apoy" (elder) in waray.

This post has been edited by bisaya: Dec 20 2006, 07:40 AM
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nenabunena
post Mar 11 2009, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE(Torete_ako_sa_yo @ Aug 15 2006, 08:38 PM) [snapback]2177136[/snapback]
Correction - English people have the best accents. They made the language - they should dictate how things are pronounced. It's not like French people who abhore accents - they simple tolerate the American accent, even though they kinda see it as beneath them.
In English accent hierarchy goes:
British
American NorthEast(except Bostonian)
Scottish
American Midwestern
Bostonian/NewYork
Irish
American Southern
Africans
Indians
Mexicans
Chinese
people who learn to speak it only as a second lanuage and don't have much use for it.

Filipinos fall into the American Midwestern accent catagory. This is only my listing by the way.


Why is it a CORRECTION? English is the primary language of not only Britain but Australia, Canada & the US as well. English is as much a language of Americans as it is the English. I don't think it's fair to belittle one over the other as both use it as a primary language. Also, why should the English accent of the English be the right way? Accents, like language & culture changes over time, the English accents of today is not the English accent used by Shakespeare's time. Actually American accent, the standard one, is the closest accent to what Shakespeare & his peers may have sounded like back in the day. This is due to the first English settlers in America bringing their standard English phonology to the new colony (America), while England accents changed in the 1700s (or earlier) & carried a few of these changes to Australia, the American counterpart kept a few standard traditional pronunciation or inflection, ie. the rhotic sound disposed in England. In this aspect, both Scotland and Ireland, like the US (w/ exceptions of course like those in NY or Brooklyn) have kept their rhotic sound, meaning more traditional English accent the the modern English accent. Is it ironic that most period movies set in Shakespeare's time or earlier prefers or shows bias towards the English accent of present England rather than the American one?
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jmx08
post May 1 2010, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (Torete_ako_sa_yo @ Aug 21 2006, 09:05 PM) *
Filipino/tagalog more or less parehas lang yan.



of course they're not the same. Filipino, our national language is not the same as Tagalog.
Cebuano, Ilonggo, Tagalog, Ifugao.. these are few of the many languages spoken in the Philippines. They are languages and not just dialects. Filipino is the combination of the languages spoken in the Philippines. It's just that, since many speak Tagalog, the most common Filipino is Tagalog-based. You can speak in "Tag-lish" and say that you have spoken in Filipino. Since Tagalog and English are two languages mainly spoken in the country.
But it does not mean that Filipino-ness is solely based on your Tagalog. It is not even solely based on language. There are Chinese that know little Filipino or Tagalog but can be called more Filipino than some full-blooded Filipinos.

source: Filipino prof Eli Guieb III
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rdlp123
post May 2 2010, 09:10 AM
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QUOTE (worlddomination @ Aug 15 2006, 08:19 AM) *
But I don't think the Manilenyos have the best accent either if we our to compare ourselve with the Americans
Don't you think that English is just a way to divide ourselves. It has become the basis for status..


What made you say that English was easier to learn than tagalog? Do you live outside the Philippines?



I think Northerners have the best accent in English. Why? Because unlike many Filipinos who cannot say the f and v in English, Northerners have no problem saying 'fair' or 'volume' instead of saying 'pair' or 'bolume'. Just my thought in this whole scheme of things.

This post has been edited by rdlp123: May 2 2010, 09:10 AM
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rdlp123
post May 2 2010, 09:17 AM
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QUOTE (bisaya @ Aug 16 2006, 09:49 AM) *
i have no problem with who among the two has the best accent because english language has so many accents. even australian english has some difference with new zealand english. even american english is divided into many different accent.

what makes me angry is the way tagalogs depicts bisayans and non-tagalogs in media (newpapers, televisions, movies and radio). and the way they treat the bisayans especially when you meet them in manila and most often when they are in groups, they tend to talk about the bisayans as a low class, uncivilized people. the tagalogs had been insulting us for decades depicting bisayans as poor, uncivilized, stupid people. we often see bisayans depicted as maids and being hit with a newspaper and called \"tanga\". and it is done by tagalog people in the media. bisayans are often depicted as a lowly inday or dodong who are \"patay-gutom\", \"mga bobo\", \"mga tanga\". and yet they take our resources and use it to improve their cities. we give huge percentage of our income to help in national development and yet these ungrateful people dont even think we are worthy of respect. then after using politics to crown their language into a national language, and thru the educational system they tried to impose on us their language, culture and history and use it as a measure of patriotism and how civilized we are as if our very own culture, language and history are devoid of any \"culture\" that are as superior as the many language in existence today. they tried to educate us in their language, culture, literature, arts, poetry, history and in all those subjects including history they\'d only speak of their great tagalog heroes and would not even bother to give much space for non-tagalog revolutionaries. they wont even tell you anything about the \"negros republic\" or the balangiga incident. but they\'ll tell you much about the revolt of the tagalogs no matter how unsuccessful it may be. it doesn\'t matter if bonifacio didnt succeed or if his primary reason for his revolt was to free the tagalogs from spain.

they have misinterpreted the kindness of the bisayans as stupidity. but we are not stupid. we have contributed our part to nation building and showed kindness and patience even to them who have treated us like second class citizen for the sake of unity and peaceful coexistence. but things have to change, we have to shake them hard like what pinatubo had done. the children of our nation are already losing respect for the bisayans and non-tagalogs. time has come to awaken the patriotic spirit of the bisayans and non-tagalogs. we can understand their language while they stand like morons wondering what we are saying whenever they hear us speak. and yet they say we are \"tanga\" and uncivilized and speaking a lowly language which they call a filipino dialect. but a dialect of what?!? tagalog?!?

check this site, and learn about languages and dialects: http://www.geocities.com/csundita/filipini...planguages.html

there was even a promotional ads about a movie where a tagalog says \"ang tanga tanga, ang tanga tanga\" and next to it we hear a cebuana say \"dili oi, dili oi\". it is typical of what we see in the movie. the \"tanga\" is usually depicted as a bisayan. just imagine if someone from hollywood would also depict a filipino as such. would you just smile and say ok lang kasi totoo naman mga tanga talaga ang mga pinoy at mga uncivilized na kumakain na nakakamay at kakaiba kung gumamit ng kutsara. if such an incident can hurt a filipino then imagine how the tagalogs had been hurting the bisayans and non-tagalogs for a very long time. it\'s time to teach our children that we dont have to be tagalog to be patriotic and we dont have to be tagalog to be civilized. the bisayans and non-tagalogs have their own great literartures, oral traditions, poetry, myths and legends. our educational system have to change. no more monopoly of tagalog literatures, history, culture, poetry and whatever it is that we teach our children (tagalogs and non-tagalogs) in a subject we call \"filipino\". that way, our children will know that non-tagalogs are not dumb, stupid, uncivilized, barbaric people.



I have a quick question. Would you rather the Philippines had no national language so that people from different groups do not understand each other? Because you seem very hurt about having a language forced on you. Keep in mind this is for your own good so that you are not left in the shadows in communication. But if you'd much rather not understand other people then suit yourself.
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rdlp123
post May 2 2010, 09:23 AM
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QUOTE (azrach187 @ Aug 17 2006, 02:28 AM) *
It may also pay to let you know that I basically grew up in the province, knowing three other dialects (Ilocano, Itawes, and Malaueg).

I see you are pointing at the educational system. To tell you the truth, language isn't the only problem in the Philippine educational system. That subject will not fare well if you consider the other subjects that needs attention, just like you said, including history.

It will be unfair to you and the rest of the nation, if you claim that no special emphasis is given to the rest of the country, if you are to speak of history... The Leyte landing did not happen in Manila. Lapu-lapu is from Mactan, not Malolos. Aklan is famous for Ati-atihan not as the summer capital of the Philippines. Boracay is the prime tourist destination of the Philippines, not Bagumbayan (Luneta). The Moros are the fierces warrior the foreigners ever saw, not the Hukbalahaps.

My point is that you are downplaying the worth of your region because of something superficial such as television shows and stereotypical portrayal that holds no water to the educated. Basically, those that view the Katagalugan area as the center of patriotism, nationalism, and class, are idiots themselves.

By land mass, Luzon is a very integral part of any military strategist, archaic history or otherwise. Manila, protected by an enclave called the Manila Bay was chosen with military purpose in mind, not of the language spoken by tribes labeled "Taga Ilog" or Tagalogs.

If you deem that Tagalogs are superior, then you might be feeding the frenzy called ignorance. The basic and most important point of language, as I stated earlier, is communication. By having a singular language, from Babuyan Islands to Sulu, our nation could be unified as one, without the use of translators. The same is true to programming language used by computer programmers, English or non-English, understand the language used in their trade.

But I see the direction of this conversation isn't language.

With enough people, including politicians themselves, cries regional autonomies. The nation already battered with different governmental problems, now have to fend-off those against a unified country. In which, you might just be a model for one. You say that some non-Tagalog speakers are categorized as non-nationalistic, well, a short trip to a mirror might just answer your own stereotype.



Hi. I took a vacation back to Cagayan last summer to Enrile. I was surprised that the children rarely speak Itawes or Ibanag anymore. They are all Tagalog, even when locals talk to them its in Tagalog. Amongst each other it is Tagalog. But only when its with their parents its in Itawes. Perhaps it is because it is taught in school, but why the preference all of a sudden to Tagalog and not with the local language?

This post has been edited by rdlp123: May 2 2010, 09:23 AM
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darren_simion
post May 2 2010, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (rdlp123 @ May 2 2010, 11:17 PM) *
I have a quick question. Would you rather the Philippines had no national language so that people from different groups do not understand each other? Because you seem very hurt about having a language forced on you. Keep in mind this is for your own good so that you are not left in the shadows in communication. But if you'd much rather not understand other people then suit yourself.



Aaahhh! I remember the Spanish used to tell us that. embarassedlaugh.gif
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