Xich Quy, WTH? Options

[drunk_on_tea]

Anyone know or can post something about Xich Quy? All I know is it means 'red devil' and was wondering why on Earth would the kingdom be named that.

This post has been edited by drunk_on_tea: May 31 2004, 02:06 AM

[vn1234]

Could you state the accent marks:

I was looking up "Xích Quy" but I don't know the original marks. Xích means chained or linked, Quy means recognize or converge. I'm not sure - gotta have the accents first.

[Johnny1984]

Anyone know or can post something about Xich Quy? All I know is it means 'red devil' and was wondering why on Earth would the kingdom be named that.

the chinese call anyone who are not han barbarians, and it happens to be vietnamese are not han so we got that name of nanman or xich quy etc

[Nam Quoc Son Ha]

Same, Why would you call your country "red devil'?

My theory is that we called ourselves Xich Quy to scare off the Imperialist Chinese. Being superstitious, they should be very afraid of red devils devouring their flesh and souls so they wouldn't dare to invade us. Hey that's my theory (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif) LOL jk

[Emperor]

Don't start it again. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/shifty.gif)

Please stay on topic.

[Nam Quoc Son Ha]

Don't start it again. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/shifty.gif)

Please stay on topic.

I said I was just kidding. Gawd someone desperately needs a sense of humour (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[Emperor]

Don't start it again. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/shifty.gif)

Please stay on topic.

I said I was just kidding. Gawd someone desperately needs a sense of humour (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

ok, never mind then. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_wink.gif) Back ontopic.

[TDscorpion]

Chronological Summary

Legendary period
Before 258 BC
Kinh Duong Vuong reigns over the Xich Quy kingdom that spread in the North up to the Blue river; in the South to Central Vietnam; in the West up to Sseutch'ouan; and in the East as far as the sea.

The Hong Bang dynasty that reigns over the Van Lang kingdom situated in Tonquin and in the Northern part of Central Vietnam.


Proto-historical period
258 BC - 3 BC
Au Lac kingdom on which reigns An Duong Vuong (257-208 BC according to tradition).

Chinese general Tch'ao To (Trieu Da) who reigns over the Nan-yue (Nam Viet) kingdom with capital at Fan-yu, subdued the Au Lac kingdom. He founded the Trieu dynasty that reigns at Fan-yu. In Tonquin (called at that time Kiao-tche, Giao Chi), legend of My Chau and Trong Thuy attached to the Co Loa capital (province of Phuc Yen). The Trieu dynasty is supposed to have reigned from 207 to 111 BC.


http://disc.cba.uh.edu/~lienhoa/history.shtml




Golden Age of Vietnam under the Hung Kings
By Pham Tang

Vietnam was 4877 years old on April 28, 1999 (the tenth of the third lunar month) since Chinese Emperor Ti Ming's heir-designate Prince Loc Tuc came into power in the meridional territory of China in 2880 B.C. after he conceded the right to run China to his brother, Prince Ti Yi, according to Vietnam's legend.

When he succeeded in grouping all the vassal states within his territory into a unified nation, Loc Tuc proclaimed himself King Kinh Duong Vuong and called his newly born nation Xich Quy. Loc Tuc inaugurated the earliest monarchical regime in Vietnam with the Hong Bang Dynasty, as the first ruling family by heirdom in Vietnam's history. The Hong Bang Dynasty lasted for 2622 years till 258 BC, legend of Vietnam said.

All the 18 kings who made up the Hong Bang Dynasty made admirable headway in their efforts to organize Vietnam of yore into one of the most stabilized, prosperous and civilized nations in Asia at the prehistoric stage. This is the reason why Vietnamese people as a whole now consider Hung kings as their patron saints and founders of Vietnam as a nation right at the period preceding the human recorded history.

http://www.vietspring.org/legend/goldenage.html

This post has been edited by TDscorpion: May 31 2004, 09:52 AM

[supernovasp]

Chronological Summary

Legendary period
Before 258 BC
Kinh Duong Vuong reigns over the Xich Quy kingdom that spread in the North up to the Blue river; in the South to Central Vietnam; in the West up to Sseutch'ouan; and in the East as far as the sea.

The Hong Bang dynasty that reigns over the Van Lang kingdom situated in Tonquin and in the Northern part of Central Vietnam.


Proto-historical period
258 BC - 3 BC
Au Lac kingdom on which reigns An Duong Vuong (257-208 BC according to tradition).

Chinese general Tch'ao To (Trieu Da) who reigns over the Nan-yue (Nam Viet) kingdom with capital at Fan-yu, subdued the Au Lac kingdom. He founded the Trieu dynasty that reigns at Fan-yu. In Tonquin (called at that time Kiao-tche, Giao Chi), legend of My Chau and Trong Thuy attached to the Co Loa capital (province of Phuc Yen). The Trieu dynasty is supposed to have reigned from 207 to 111 BC.


http://disc.cba.uh.edu/~lienhoa/history.shtml




Golden Age of Vietnam under the Hung Kings
By Pham Tang

Vietnam was 4877 years old on April 28, 1999 (the tenth of the third lunar month) since Chinese Emperor Ti Ming's heir-designate Prince Loc Tuc came into power in the meridional territory of China in 2880 B.C. after he conceded the right to run China to his brother, Prince Ti Yi, according to Vietnam's legend.

When he succeeded in grouping all the vassal states within his territory into a unified nation, Loc Tuc proclaimed himself King Kinh Duong Vuong and called his newly born nation Xich Quy. Loc Tuc inaugurated the earliest monarchical regime in Vietnam with the Hong Bang Dynasty, as the first ruling family by heirdom in Vietnam's history. The Hong Bang Dynasty lasted for 2622 years till 258 BC, legend of Vietnam said.

All the 18 kings who made up the Hong Bang Dynasty made admirable headway in their efforts to organize Vietnam of yore into one of the most stabilized, prosperous and civilized nations in Asia at the prehistoric stage. This is the reason why Vietnamese people as a whole now consider Hung kings as their patron saints and founders of Vietnam as a nation right at the period preceding the human recorded history.

http://www.vietspring.org/legend/goldenage.html

(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/madgo.gif) Obviously the information is wrong, even though it's real..
First, King An Duong Vuong (officially still a legend) language is obviously very different from nowaday Vietnamese language. Second, why is the name of the kingdom is in Han-Viet. If King An Duong Vuong time is real, this is before our language is influenced by chinese.
The chinese people usually used man, yi (or something like that), gui to name land that they think are "babaric".

[supernovasp]

To me this theory is way better than any other theories before Trieuda time.

Người Lạc Việt có nguồn gốc Mã Lai-Đa Đảo, ngữ hệ Nam Phương (Austric). Trước khi bị nhà Hán (chứ không phải Triệu Đà đâu) chia làm quận huyện thì có Lạc hầu, Lạc Tướng cai trị các Lạc. Dân các Lạc gọi là Lạc Dân, có ruộng (ruộng công) là Lạc Điền (Giao Châu ngoại vực ký, trích trong Thủy Kinh chú đời Nam Triều Lương ). Vậy Lạc là gì?

Sau khi nghiên cứu tiếng Bahasa Indonesia (tự điển Kamus), tôi hầu như chắc chắn rằng Lạc là phát xuất từ LUAK của tiếng Indo (có nghĩa là quận), quận trưởng là LUAK UNDANG (có thể viết là UNDANG LUAK) hay LUAK PENGHULU, tương dương với Lạc Tướng và Lạc Hầụ

Còn vua An Dương (An Dương Vương) thì là tiếng Hán? Không phải, dó là từ tiếng Indo là YANG (PERTU)AN là thủ lĩnh tối cao của tất cả các LUAK.

Thục Phán có họ Thục tên Phán? Không phải đâu! Đó là từ tiếng Indo DATUK PANAH (hay TUK PANAH) là thủ lĩnh bắn ná (nỏ) hay thủ lĩnh nỏ.

Ai không tin thì nghiên cứu tiếng Indo, Melayu xem!

Rất mong nhận được ý kiến đóng góp.

[TDscorpion]

Note: King Duong Vuong ~ 3000 BCE > > Lac long Quan > 18 Kings Hung> Hong Bang dynasty

King An duong Vuong 258-208 BC >>> Au Lac

Due to thousands of years ... legend ... myths ... and so on... It prettry hard to trace back ... If you know what I mean

[supernovasp]

Note: King Duong Vuong ~ 3000 BCE > > Lac long Quan > 18 Kings Hung> Hong Bang dynasty

King An duong Vuong 258-208 BC >>> Au Lac

Due to thousands of years ... legend ... myths ... and so on... It prettry hard to trace back ... If you know what I mean

They're all still legend, legend, legen, and legend..
Until there are some hardcore facts of such organized goverment, I'll take no considerations

[TDscorpion]

Note: King  Duong Vuong ~ 3000 BCE > > Lac long Quan > 18 Kings Hung> Hong Bang dynasty

King An duong Vuong 258-208 BC >>> Au Lac

Due to thousands of years ... legend ... myths ... and so on... It prettry hard to trace back ...  If you know what I mean

They're all still legend, legend, legen, and legend..
Until there are some hardcore facts of such organized goverment, I'll take no considerations

Yes mostly ... Historians can trace back as far as about 2000 years or so, beyond that nothing is certain ... Except for Egypt ... the French was able to decode the Rosa stone which had ancient Egypt script on it ..

Otherwhile ..legend.. myths .. carried thru generations to generations

[DAI_VIET]

Anyone know or can post something about Xich Quy? All I know is it means 'red devil' and was wondering why on Earth would the kingdom be named that.

Back to the topic. I think Xích Quỷ was named so that the native [Viets] scare off the north Chinese. Ya know, it was customary for ancient Viets to have their bodies tattoed with dragons and other animals. This custom was abadoned in 1300s.

So I guess Xich Quy was named like that huh?

[DAI_VIET]

And yes, I recognize Hung kings as my ancestors and Viet ancestors as a whole. I don't care if it's myth or legend or whatever, as long as the story continues to pass generations after generations after some more tan 4000 years, then I'd say stick with it!

I am guessing supernovasp would take Trieu Da as his ancestors. Just because it's written in some Chinese history book.


Sure...

[Muzharen]

the chinese call anyone who are not han barbarians, and it happens to be vietnamese are not han so we got that name of nanman or xich quy etc

Yes, historically Han Chinese considered anyone living outside China to be "barbarians" in the same fashion that Romans did. All powerful nations have done this, even the U.S. Remember the "white man's burden" to "civilize and christianize the brown peoples"? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif) Even today Americans often look down on foreigners.

Anyway, I am familiar with the term "nanman" but not "xich quy". Keep in mind though, nanman literally means "southern barbarians" and it wasn't just used to refer to Vietnamese but also other southeast Asians.

[Johnny1984]

the chinese call anyone who are not han barbarians, and it happens to be vietnamese are not han so we got that name of nanman or xich quy etc

Yes, historically Han Chinese considered anyone living outside China to be "barbarians" in the same fashion that Romans did. All powerful nations have done this, even the U.S. Remember the "white man's burden" to "civilize and christianize the brown peoples"? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif) Even today Americans often look down on foreigners.

Anyway, I am familiar with the term "nanman" but not "xich quy". Keep in mind though, nanman literally means "southern barbarians" and it wasn't just used to refer to Vietnamese but also other southeast Asians.

well the chinese really only square off against vietnam in the southern area, so basically when they called nanman it is us, it is just so lame, even in the game Dynasty warrior 4 for xbox it has nanman in it, they made the characters model for the nanman in their as barbarians with tattoos all over the places, everytime i get to that part of the game i let the nanman win in that scenario then i skip to killing cao cao etc

[直隸總督]

the chinese call anyone who are not han barbarians, and it happens to be vietnamese are not han so we got that name of nanman or xich quy etc

Yes, historically Han Chinese considered anyone living outside China to be "barbarians" in the same fashion that Romans did. All powerful nations have done this, even the U.S. Remember the "white man's burden" to "civilize and christianize the brown peoples"? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif) Even today Americans often look down on foreigners.

Anyway, I am familiar with the term "nanman" but not "xich quy". Keep in mind though, nanman literally means "southern barbarians" and it wasn't just used to refer to Vietnamese but also other southeast Asians.

well the chinese really only square off against vietnam in the southern area, so basically when they called nanman it is us, it is just so lame, even in the game Dynasty warrior 4 for xbox it has nanman in it, they made the characters model for the nanman in their as barbarians with tattoos all over the places, everytime i get to that part of the game i let the nanman win in that scenario then i skip to killing cao cao etc

aw... I always use Cao Cao. He's my idol

[Johnny1984]

the chinese call anyone who are not han barbarians, and it happens to be vietnamese are not han so we got that name of nanman or xich quy etc

Yes, historically Han Chinese considered anyone living outside China to be "barbarians" in the same fashion that Romans did. All powerful nations have done this, even the U.S. Remember the "white man's burden" to "civilize and christianize the brown peoples"? (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sure.gif) Even today Americans often look down on foreigners.

Anyway, I am familiar with the term "nanman" but not "xich quy". Keep in mind though, nanman literally means "southern barbarians" and it wasn't just used to refer to Vietnamese but also other southeast Asians.

well the chinese really only square off against vietnam in the southern area, so basically when they called nanman it is us, it is just so lame, even in the game Dynasty warrior 4 for xbox it has nanman in it, they made the characters model for the nanman in their as barbarians with tattoos all over the places, everytime i get to that part of the game i let the nanman win in that scenario then i skip to killing cao cao etc

aw... I always use Cao Cao. He's my idol

i use sun jian or meng huo the fat vietnamese guy (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)

[DAI_VIET]

well the chinese really only square off against vietnam in the southern area, so basically when they called nanman it is us, it is just so lame, even in the game Dynasty warrior 4 for xbox it has nanman in it, they made the characters model for the nanman in their as barbarians with tattoos all over the places, everytime i get to that part of the game i let the nanman win in that scenario then i skip to killing cao cao etc

LOL. Exactly. Well, I don't play that game, but I do it Civilization 3. I'd create a Vietnamese kingdom and put China right next to Vietnam. As soon as I get iron mines, and build a huge army, China is right there, first take a city, then demand some money from them. Then when my army is strong enough, take another city.

And so on, after about 2 weeks of a playing it, half of the world is under my control.


(IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/embarassedlaugh.gif)